Headset in $400-$1,000 range to pair with Sound Blaster ZXR primarily for gaming?

pstack

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Sorry for the length. My months of searching and frustration has left me with so much to say!


Short:
I need a quality set of around-ear headphones that will be great for general use, but will primarily be used for PC gaming while connected to a Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZXR. I am looking at the $400-1,000 price range. It will not be used for portable devices. It will likely live almost its entire life as a dedicated device for my PC on my desktop. I will listen to music on it, but I've recently given up on having a local physical collection and have resigned myself to settling for streaming libraries at MOG and RDIO (which stream at 192/320kbps, I believe). I need advice on good headsets to pair with ZXR in this price range and maybe advice on open-ear versus closed-ear.


Long:
I know some would chastise me for using a Sound Blaster card rather than external amp, but I already feed optical from my PC into my Denon 3806 which then powers Bower & Wilkins 803 fronts and center with B&W HM7 surrounds and a Velodyne 1000 (and the Sound Blaster has a daughter card with optical out that will accommodate this). This is how I consume most content on my PC.

I really just need a headset for gaming, when positional awareness or voice communication is necessary.

Main reasons I bought the ZXR are that I've heard tremendous praise for its positional audio in gaming, it offers 80mW into 600 ohms, and it purportedly should solve my microphone/headset problem with its Beamforming microphone that apparently actually works and provides the same quality as a good headset mic. Having this would free me up from the search for a separate mic (only options seem to be a cheap $7 Zalman lapel mic or $15 Logitech desk stand mic) and would allow me to choose from any headphones I want, without forcing a compromise. I know AntLion's modmic is an option, but I would like to have a mic before this decade is out.

I really hope the Beamform mic lives up to the hype. I also hope the ACM doesn't interfere with the power to the headset (which is one issue I've heard as a possibility, even though I don't understand why a passthrough to HEADPHONES OUT on the card's amp would impede anything?!).

Audio quality (especially for gaming, but music too) is the biggest concern, followed by build quality and ruggedness. I have a big fat shaved head and usually wear reading glasses.



Opened or Closed Ear? / Use Environment
I have what may be an unreasonable fear of damaging my hearing and have heard endless conflicting discussion stating that all headphones are going to deafen me. Or open-back headphones will force me to turn the volume up, which will deafen me. Or closed-back headphones will force all the soundwaves into my ear at close range and deafen me. I don't know what to subscribe to. I like a closed headset, I think, but those seem harder to find in the high end product range, for some reason. I have no qualms with open-ear, as long as I won't be prone to damage my hearing from turning it up to compensate from lack of closed ear.

The room these headphones will be used the most in is a finished basement/home theater, where the ambient sound would be the buzzing of a dorm fridge, the sound of a portable fan or space heater, the occasional sound of the boiler igniting to heat up water for the baseboard heaters in the house and the pump kicking the water through the zone loops, and a rather beefy PC in a CM Cosmos 2 stuffed with noise-reducing typhoon and ninja fans that, sadly, are none-too-quiet when gaming.

So, I'm not gaming in a family room with children squealing or competing with a nearby television or radio, but it is not so quiet that you can hear the your heart beating in your ears.

For whatever it may be worth (I'm uncertain of its accuracy or relevance in measurement in this manner), db Meter Pro on my iPad picks up MAX/AVG/PEAK of 66/65/66 with the likely loudest this room would *normally* be from the position where my head would be at. This doesn't include whatever noise generated by using the keyboard while gaming. At the quietest it would generally be from the same position in this room, I received measurements of 61/57/57.



Some Headphone Considerations (but open to suggestions!)
+ AKG 712 Pro : I've heard many who adore this and state it is the closest they've found to HD800s, short of spending HD800 prices. I've heard others say that AGKs are over-marketed crap that burn-in your ears until you succumb to them rather than burning in themselves until they sound great. I'd also likely get this over the AKG K702 65th, since it seems to be the same thing with slight refinements.

+ HiFiMan HE-500 : Seems to be a beloved great-sounding headset at a premium price over the AGK, but supposedly very painful to wear. I suppose I would upgrade the ear pieces and get the leather strap cover that can go around the headband if that would really result in a comfortable kit.

+ Beyer Dynamic DT 990 or 880 Premium 600 ohm : I've heard positive things about both, but not nearly as glowing as the other headphones. These seem to be "good for the price" sets, but not premium kits like the others.


Guidance and suggestions appreciated. No problem spending money for quality, as long as I don't end up with far more than I'll ever need and therefore waste my money or buy something flawed and therefore waste my money. Like most people, I just want to come away confident that I made a solid purchase to be proud of and enjoy for years.

I can't thank you enough for trudging through this tome.


If advice leads me to a decision, I'll post confirmation of kicking $10 to Engineers Without Borders in [H]'s name as a tiny gesture of gratitude. (Hope that doesn't come across wrong - I have gotten so much help in this community over the years that I want to do more than just say "gosh, thanks").

Update: Thanks for the continuing advice and discussion on this topic. Just to show you guys that I didn't flake out:

y6YKq6j.gif
 
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There is a excellent reason semi open headphones dominate the higher end of the market. Superior sound stage most notably.

Personally I have been buying high end headphones for the last 4 years trying to find what I like best. I settled on Sennheiser 598's and a external usb/dac combo along with multiple sound cards... I am still deciding on a final sound card.

For me, the 598's have a sound stage that strikes home, while having equal presence feom the drivers. Many open phones are bass light and sound tin like even after break in and equalization. That is of course my .02

My other reason to recommend them is comfort. I have been able to wear these longer than any other headphone.

Also, keep in mind price has little to do with quality. I have owned a few $1k+ sets of cans that were terrible in quality. And I mean terrible.

The best answer is... try some on. Listen to them in your setup. Anyone else's opinions are purely subjective in nature.

And for me personally... I bought a nice dac to drive 600 ohm cans and found that after owning tons of amps and cans, that imo resistance had little or no effect on sound quality. ESPECIALLY on a pc sound card that is prone to terrible interference at best regardless of advertising claims or price.
 
There is a excellent reason semi open headphones dominate the higher end of the market. Superior sound stage most notably.

This is what I suspected, though I usually only hear people talk about open-ear in terms of safety or comfort -- but I've never used open-eared phones. In fact, other than a couple $100 gaming headsets (like the Gamescom 770, which is surprisingly decent), the only thing I've actually owned for cans is the fantastic all-around MDR-V6 (I've only used two pairs of these over 23 years). I just haven't needed headsets, since I've always gone big with my speakers . . . but I'm finding I need a mic more often, now - and that means whatever mic solution I go with, a headset is going to be required to eliminate background bleeding into communications.

My only concern with open-ear, as I'd mentioned, is "will that make me turn it up beyond a safe 80dB to compensate for room noise". All the stuff I love requires fingers and hands and eyes and ears and vocal chords and I'm damn right paranoid that I'm going to end up 60 years old and not able to enjoy any of the things I love doing and will have to take up shuffle board!

Personally I have been buying high end headphones for the last 4 years trying to find what I like best. I settled on Sennheiser 598's and a external usb/dac combo along with multiple sound cards... I am still deciding on a final sound card.

I've lived w/ onboard for over a decade and never saw myself going with a card, until I read some reviews about Creative's ZXR. I liked that it put out a lot of power with its decent DAC, but was really sold on the Beamform thing. Thought it was a gimmick, but I also hear a lot of heavy praise. $250 seems crazy to risk on it, but...

Also, the reason I didn't go with an external DAC is that if I were going that route, I might as well just plug my cans into my receiver. I really wanted something to boost the surround experience in games where I find myself stuck using headphones (even if it's only 5.1, like the ZXR).


For me, the 598's have a sound stage that strikes home, while having equal presence feom the drivers. Many open phones are bass light and sound tin like even after break in and equalization. That is of course my .02

My other reason to recommend them is comfort. I have been able to wear these longer than any other headphone.

I'd actually been considering the 650s as an option, too. They seem to be great all-around and have a solid following, though still some small complaints. I've never heard someone complain about the HE 500s, though and the people I've known who owned them are in love with them (never had a chance to try myself) . . . but man, they look uncomfortable and seem to be pretty heavy.


Also, keep in mind price has little to do with quality. I have owned a few $1k+ sets of cans that were terrible in quality. And I mean terrible.

The best answer is... try some on. Listen to them in your setup. Anyone else's opinions are purely subjective in nature.

That's especially so with regard to primarily using them for gaming. It's a unique purpose that can find strengths in an otherwise weak set or make a solid set sound like garbage. It's hard to find a lot of people's opinions with higher-end headphones with regard to gaming, rather than music.

If I were going to be using these to replace or compensate for my speakers or do a lot more than a little music and a lot of gaming, I would probably just cut to the chase and drop the cash for HD800s, but I can't bring myself to invest that much for the use I'll likely put toward these. $500 is pretty reasonable. I'd go as high as $1,000 if something were clearly an absolute no-brainer above and beyond everything else . . . but short of the HE 500s ($700), it really does seem like ~$400 is the sweet spot.

PS: I know the only way to be sure is to listen to a headset, but I unfortunately don't have much beyond a ListenUp Audio showroom out here and their selection is miserable, other than an $1,100 pair of Denon 7100s).
 
Just get a modmic. Usually no more then a month wait. You'll be getting the beamforming stuff with the ZxR anyways, but I personally prefer the seperate boom mic.

Also, I have to point out to at least consider and cross-shop your ZXR with a STX. The ZXR has it's own benefits for sure. When push comes to shove I feel the STX offers a wider soundstage IMO. You'll still be getting Dolby Headphone, etc with the STX.
 
So...

Budget: $400-1000
Ambient Noise: Moderate
Microphone: None (ZXR)
Fit: Circumaural
Use Cases: Dedicated PC Headphones, Positional Audio/Awareness (ZXR), Music/Streaming, Comfort

I didn't list your concerns over hearing damage. Honestly, you should be just fine with either closed or open sets. My advice would be to simply adjust your baseline for loudness. E.g. force yourself to adjust to lower volumes levels rather than impulsively turning up the volume as soon as you put the headphone on.

Aside from that, closed sets will obviously have better isolation in general, but open sets are open to varying degrees. Not all open sets will have issues with light or moderate ambient noise. And as for why most, if not essentially all, top tier headphones are open: it can be difficult to get a large sound stage or "airy" feeling from closed sets, past a certain extent.

Anyway, moving on.

I haven't used the AKG 712 Pros so I really cannot comment on these. The HE-500s are, simply put, excellent, although they do have a strong clamping force around the ears. Some find this uncomfortable, but it all depends on the shape of your head. I haven't had too much of an issue here, personally.

Beyerdynamic is certainly not just "good for the price", in my opinion. Beyer makes some excellent headphones, and some of the most durable and comfortable to boot. (I love their velour pads.) They also make some of the favorite choices for gaming headphones, alongside AKG. The 990 models are solid all-rounders and best the 880 models for general use in my opinion, but the 880 models are the better headphones for picking up positional cues (less bass). Also note that some Beyer models come off as having harsh highs to some, hence the polarizing viewpoints out there.

The $400-1000 range also includes the Sennheiser HD 600 and HD 650 models, with the HD 600s being the more neutral of the two. And... the HD 700. You mentioned the HD 800 specifically and your budget is up to $1,000, so I would be remiss not to mention the HD 800s little brother. If the HD 800 is your ultimate goal, you'll get nine tenths of the way there with the HD 700.
 
I've never heard the AKG's.

The Hifiman line is VERY uncomfortable. Look in the headphone picture thread, on that last page, I just posted a pick of them. Even with that headband you mentioned they are uncomfortable. I even swapped the metal cups out for plastic, to lighten the weight. Still uncomfortable. BUT the sound is on par with HD800's. No doubt.

I just purchased the Beyer Dynamic MMX300's. They are probably the 770's with a mic attached? Best headset I have owned by a mile. They are the best sounding headset you can buy. The soundstage is good. Not great. The bass is perfect for gaming. Not competitive gaming though. The mids are pretty pronounced, and highs are nice. The mic is crystal clear, with a great adjustable arm. The cord is a little on the thin side, but other than that, these are built to last for years.

The 880's and 990's I returned both. The 880's because even though closed they may as well have been open. Very little isolation. The 990's I kept getting the feeling that they weren't worth 500 bucks of sound quality there. (They are cheaper now BTW).

The Senn 598's really are a great choice. They have everything you want in a gaming headphone, minus a mic. They were my go to headphones for quite a long time. They really are the most comfortable headphone ever.

Sennheiser PC350/60. Open or closed. I preferred the 360's which I just sold to get the MMX300's. Both are great headsets. Both are built to last for years. The 350's "leather" did wear out after 3 years of use though. Sound wise thing HD555 quality.
 
Just get a modmic. Usually no more then a month wait. You'll be getting the beamforming stuff with the ZxR anyways, but I personally prefer the seperate boom mic.

I believe the current wait for a ModMic is a minimum of four months. :/

Also, I have to point out to at least consider and cross-shop your ZXR with a STX. The ZXR has it's own benefits for sure. When push comes to shove I feel the STX offers a wider soundstage IMO. You'll still be getting Dolby Headphone, etc with the STX.

Admittedly, the beamform is what sold me on this (when I heard someone I trust review it and say it actually worked and replaced their need for using a headset at all, I pretty much bought into it and had to try it) -- but my understanding is that SBX is supposed to be superior to DH?

I'm not an audiophile, though, so my knowledge with regard to sound card and audio technologies is meager. This isn't an issue like we had with EAX, right? That is, I'm not going to play a game and find out "sorry, this game only supports DH and not SBX" or the other way around, right?

I would really love to play with both, but that's a big investment.

On the other hand, my younger lives in my house while he's going to school so I could always offload my least preferred to him as a gift . . .

And I'd still get to play with double the toys for awhile . . .

Gah, I'm so impulsive. :)
 
I've never heard the AKG's.

The Hifiman line is VERY uncomfortable. Look in the headphone picture thread, on that last page, I just posted a pick of them. Even with that headband you mentioned they are uncomfortable. I even swapped the metal cups out for plastic, to lighten the weight. Still uncomfortable. BUT the sound is on par with HD800's. No doubt.

Oh, they definitely look exactly as uncomfortable as a lot of people claim they feel, which is what I was afraid of. I held out some hope based on the one discussion I read where a couple small pads/headband modifications supposedly resolved everything. I can not fathom why anyone would manufacture something of such great quality into a terrible body, like that?

I'll totally take excellent quality in exchange for a slight ding in comfort, but it sounds like HiFis require a much bigger sacrifice.

I just purchased the Beyer Dynamic MMX300's. They are probably the 770's with a mic attached? Best headset I have owned by a mile. They are the best sounding headset you can buy. The soundstage is good. Not great. The bass is perfect for gaming. Not competitive gaming though. The mids are pretty pronounced, and highs are nice. The mic is crystal clear, with a great adjustable arm. The cord is a little on the thin side, but other than that, these are built to last for years.

I believe it's the 770 with a ratcheted boom-mic. Until I discovered the Sound Blaster's beamform thing, the MMX300 was going to be my compromise. As you mention, not the best headphone, but you're not going to get a mic with the best headphone, either. The beamform (if it works as claimed) opens me up to any headphone I want, which is why I sort of went crazy adjusting the budget upward. :)

If the beamform technology turns out to be garbage and I still can't get a modmic, an MMX300 will probably be my alternative. The thing I really feel they have going for them is the five year warranty. So few headphones -- even at double the price -- seem to have more than a year or three.

The 880's and 990's I returned both. The 880's because even though closed they may as well have been open. Very little isolation. The 990's I kept getting the feeling that they weren't worth 500 bucks of sound quality there. (They are cheaper now BTW).

I'd heard similar complaints about the 880s and 990s, too. With the AKGs and others out there around the same price range, they didn't sound to be worth $500.

The Senn 598's really are a great choice. They have everything you want in a gaming headphone, minus a mic. They were my go to headphones for quite a long time. They really are the most comfortable headphone ever.

Sennheiser PC350/60. Open or closed. I preferred the 360's which I just sold to get the MMX300's. Both are great headsets. Both are built to last for years. The 350's "leather" did wear out after 3 years of use though. Sound wise thing HD555 quality.

The discomfort of the HiFi line being confirmed has pretty much narrowed this down for me to an HD598 or HD600 or still the AKG 712 Pro. It supposedly takes a long time to "break in", but I've heard very happy users pairing it with the ZXR. It's supposed to be quite comfortable, too, but . . . it doesn't *look* as comfortable to me as the HDs.
 
So...

Budget: $400-1000
Ambient Noise: Moderate
Microphone: None (ZXR)
Fit: Circumaural
Use Cases: Dedicated PC Headphones, Positional Audio/Awareness (ZXR), Music/Streaming, Comfort

Can I just retain you to follow me around and synopsize my entire life for me? I think most people around me would greatly appreciate your skill. :p


I didn't list your concerns over hearing damage. Honestly, you should be just fine with either closed or open sets. My advice would be to simply adjust your baseline for loudness. E.g. force yourself to adjust to lower volumes levels rather than impulsively turning up the volume as soon as you put the headphone on.

Not being a heavy headphone user, I usually turn it "just loud enough", but that has also always been with closed cups. I *think* I listen around 80dB, but the only way I have to verify that is holding up one of the headphone cups to the mic on my iPad and running a dB meter.

Aside from that, closed sets will obviously have better isolation in general, but open sets are open to varying degrees. Not all open sets will have issues with light or moderate ambient noise. And as for why most, if not essentially all, top tier headphones are open: it can be difficult to get a large sound stage or "airy" feeling from closed sets, past a certain extent.

That is what I'd suspected. I'd not seen it laid out so clearly, but i noticed that praise of an airy/open soundstage tended to come with headsets that were open.



I haven't used the AKG 712 Pros so I really cannot comment on these. The HE-500s are, simply put, excellent, although they do have a strong clamping force around the ears. Some find this uncomfortable, but it all depends on the shape of your head. I haven't had too much of an issue here, personally.

My fiance has made it repeatedly clear to me that I "look like an angry egg", so I'm going to go with "big and egg-shaped", which I presume is where the clamping begins to be a problem?

Since I haven't found a pair to try locally (man, why doesn't someone run a Zappos or Glasses.com style service for trying on headphones?), I might have to avoid them as an option if there is any question about common discomfort. :(

Beyerdynamic is certainly not just "good for the price", in my opinion. Beyer makes some excellent headphones, and some of the most durable and comfortable to boot. (I love their velour pads.) They also make some of the favorite choices for gaming headphones, alongside AKG. The 990 models are solid all-rounders and best the 880 models for general use in my opinion, but the 880 models are the better headphones for picking up positional cues (less bass). Also note that some Beyer models come off as having harsh highs to some, hence the polarizing viewpoints out there.
Any thoughts to share on the MMX300s, which seem to be the 770s with a mic? These were going to be my "compromise" choice of dealing with a nice headset with a mic, until I discovered "beamform". I've heard little complaint about them, but "Gaming" branded anything perks my skeptical ears up.

The $400-1000 range also includes the Sennheiser HD 600 and HD 650 models, with the HD 600s being the more neutral of the two. And... the HD 700. You mentioned the HD 800 specifically and your budget is up to $1,000, so I would be remiss not to mention the HD 800s little brother. If the HD 800 is your ultimate goal, you'll get nine tenths of the way there with the HD 700.

The 650s are totally a strong contender if based almost entirely just on reputation.

Technically, I guess I don't have a "budget". I could go HD800 . . . . but . . . it's more of a sort of "shame" budget. I could spend up to $1,000 and only feel a little shame. At HD800 price, I enter "oh my god, why don't I have any self control -- I'm such a loser!" territory. :)

Between HD700s and HD800s, I'd rather go with 90% of the performance for 66% the price. Especially for my limited usage. After all, I still have a terrific audio system with my B&Ws for everything non-headset (especially for music). And when I consider that these will mostly be used for conference calls and gaming rather than listening to music, even the 650s sound like a more responsible choice.

Let's say it were between the 700/800, the HE-500, and a the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1, though. Any clear winner?
 
As a sidenote, may I ask: For you audiophones/headphone-freaks -- how exactly do you manage your hobby? I mean, if you are a real audiophile, I know you need more than one headset to address more than one type of purpose and sound. . . but I know a lot of you own like twenty sets and you buy more every few months . . . how do you cope with that rather than just saying "well, I have a solid set, so this will do me for the next five years, when I'll start looking again".

I totally understand the urge. . . I guess I just don't understand how you handle having so many sets around, what you do with them, and how you manage dealing with any financial issues involved in such an expensive collection?
 
Just get a modmic. Usually no more then a month wait. You'll be getting the beamforming stuff with the ZxR anyways, but I personally prefer the seperate boom mic.

Also, I have to point out to at least consider and cross-shop your ZXR with a STX. The ZXR has it's own benefits for sure. When push comes to shove I feel the STX offers a wider soundstage IMO. You'll still be getting Dolby Headphone, etc with the STX.

BTW, I will eventually buy a modmic, no matter what, just because I want to support the effort and the dudes are from my hometown. I just don't want to wait the four months they are currently expecting *just to get some in stock*. :)
 
Seeing that you have no budget constraints, I'd go IN A HEART BEAT after the Sennheiser HD650.

For reference this is the collection I have atm:

o1XM0.jpg


Cans in that picture (sans some random units)

-Sennheiser HD650/600
-Beyer DT770/880/990
-AKG K701/550
-AD700
-Denon D2000

Reference about me:

-I have a big head.
-Always wear glasses

Why the HD650?

-To me, they are the most comfy can I have owned to date. I could wear them forever if I wanted to. They just make the "right" pressure so they stay on your head, and you can move around without them moving a bit but, at the same time, they don't stress your head nor anything. They sit on your head, but won't bother you at all.

-The earpads are GODLIKE. They don't make you sweat (as other leatherpads do during hot-weather), you may replace them if you wish and aren't prone to get dirty.

-Build quality: this is probably the "worse" part of the HD650, since many other competitors will feature a much better finish and quality than these. For instance, I think that the best finish quality and built of all the cans I own is those of the K550. They are simply astonishing.
Anyway. To me build quality is not something really important since indoor cans aren't meant to stay indoor.

-Sound: THIS is what makes the HD650 a truly unique product. When you compare the HD650 to any other can you want you will probably think they aren't worth its price. After all, we are talking about a mid-ranged based can that has no downsides nor upsides (sans for the insane mid-range, that is). The problem is that... there isn't a single style in which they don't shine. They do everything just right, and nothing wrong. They don't excel at any style (sans for those based on the mid-range). They are a do-it-all-right can (which is something unique on its own).

BUT, as If that weren't enough... there is something that isn't stated enough. Even when using high-end systems its impossible to control everything we listen (quality wise). I'm sure you look some videos on the net from time to time, or listen to spotify or, heck, just listen to some ripped audio you have no idea the quality in which they were ripped. When you do that... you find yourself crying tears because such music is unfathomable. Even when watching movies you will find yourself hearing out-of-scene things you weren't supposed to listen that will ruin the experience for you. For instance, I love the HD600 to death... but only when I know that the music is properly recorded, produced and mastered. Watching a movie with the HD600 tends to be a pain in the ass, unless I'm trying to find mistakes or screw-ups (in which case they are terrific at such task).

The HD650? You can put anything you want through them, EVERYTHING sounds proper. I have no idea how, but this cans are meant to enjoy the music the way it was thought, and not to analyze or study it (I studied classical music for 10 years) or go find the mistakes in it.

So, when you put everything together, you have a master-piece: not only they make everything sound right, nor are SUPER comfy, nor are able to filter the crap out of the music... they do it all at once without removing even a slight detail. With their warmish feel, and delicate mids but, at the same time, with a never-painful treble and a more than capable bass.

Sure, if you said you were going to listen to some specific genres, or wanted a can to do some mastering or wanted something very specific, there are far better choices out there. But if you want a do-it-all can, imo, there is nothing better than the HD650.

BTW, you will need an amp to drive them, but they aren't terribly specific about it so even an Objective 2 amp will do (around $100).

---

Regarding the fear of deafening and other stuff.

a) Volume and what not.

When you are in a very noisy environment you REQUIRE closed cans. The reason being: if you don't use something that isolates you from the exterior. Why do we speak louder in noisy environments? Because there is no other way to hear the voice above the general noise.

So, if you will use your cans in a sound-controlled environment (aka a closed room), there is no need for closed because, most of the time, a closed can has to make some sacrifices in order to have some decent sound.

If you are worried about becoming deaf... just don't get too happy with the volume knob, and thats it.

As a personal preference, open cans sound much more natural. Also, If the phone rings, or somebody calls me, I do hear them which means that I'm submerged into the music but, at the same time, I'm aware of whats going on around me (the closed cans may make you feel even claustrophobic sometimes because you simply unplug from reality: you will feel your breathing but won't hear it).

If you want a read a very fair (imo) review, I'd suggest this one: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com.es/2011/06/sennheiser-hd-650.html

@pstack: the quest for "my" sound is a never-ending one because you don't know whether you like something unless you get something new to keep testing. As for the financial involvement... cans normally lose little value throughout their life-span... and their life-span is kinda big. Keep in mind that the HD650 were released in 2003.. and are still on the market (and the price remains, more or less, very similar). How many markets do you in which a product doesn't get outdated in less than 5 years?

PS: for reference, the HD580 were released in 1993. The HD600 use the same drivers, nowadays.
 
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Also, the reason I didn't go with an external DAC is that if I were going that route, I might as well just plug my cans into my receiver. I really wanted something to boost the surround experience in games where I find myself stuck using headphones (even if it's only 5.1, like the ZXR).

The headphone out on most AVRs are pretty underwhelming, actually. Just because it is part of a big box doesn't make it better than a soundcard.
 
As a sidenote, may I ask: For you audiophones/headphone-freaks -- how exactly do you manage your hobby? I mean, if you are a real audiophile, I know you need more than one headset to address more than one type of purpose and sound. . . but I know a lot of you own like twenty sets and you buy more every few months . . . how do you cope with that rather than just saying "well, I have a solid set, so this will do me for the next five years, when I'll start looking again".

I totally understand the urge. . . I guess I just don't understand how you handle having so many sets around, what you do with them, and how you manage dealing with any financial issues involved in such an expensive collection?

It is actually pretty inexpensive. My little set of cans/amps is over the course of years. Prior to my HD800's, I THINK the most I have spent in any year was 1300 bucks? That was for my HE-5LE's and the Schiit stack for ampage.

I figure at any given time I need a few sets with the following criteria for each:

My awesomest maximus impressivmus my friendimus, glass of wine, leave me alone, great sounding set: HE-5LE's now HD800's.
My comfort set: HD598's now HD800's
My gaming set: HD598's now HD800's
My wireless set: RS 180s.
My let me put these closest to the front within easy reach, so no one messes with my good shit set: HD598's
My wife is sleeping while I game set: MMX300's

I personally only have 5 cans. Will probably be 4 once I sell the HE-5LE's.

Anyone for some HE-5LE's cheap?
 
Seeing that you have no budget constraints, I'd go IN A HEART BEAT after the Sennheiser HD650.

...snip...

-To me, they are the most comfy can I have owned to date. I could wear them forever if I wanted to. They just make the "right" pressure so they stay on your head, and you can move around without them moving a bit but, at the same time, they don't stress your head nor anything. They sit on your head, but won't bother you at all.

-The earpads are GODLIKE. They don't make you sweat (as other leatherpads do during hot-weather), you may replace them if you wish and aren't prone to get dirty.

-Build quality: this is probably the "worse" part of the HD650, since many other competitors will feature a much better finish and quality than these. For instance, I think that the best finish quality and built of all the cans I own is those of the K550. They are simply astonishing.
Anyway. To me build quality is not something really important since indoor cans aren't meant to stay indoor.

This is what I'd wondered between these and the AKG 712 Pros. The design of the AKGs looks potentially flimsy and I'm nto sure how comfortable the leather strap would be. I'd presume it must be pretty comfortable, since it alleviates the weight and pressure of any solid head strap like with other headphones?

I'm concerned about build quality, but other than transporting these around for a few moves during my life, I'm not going to be taking the bus with them or even going upstairs to listen to them. They'll very likely stay at my desk forever and only suffer the occasional drop.

I do hope replacement parts are not difficult, though. This seems to be an issue with AKG. Their 712 Pro has a refined ear pad that seems to actually play a part in the accoustics (the bass retention, I guess?) -- so if they're worn or damaged, you have to drop another $40-70 to replace them.

My goal for the way a headphone feels would be that it seems more "open" than oppressive. I love my MDR-V6s, but it feels like what a *cat* must feel like, on a leash.


-Sound: THIS is what makes the HD650 a truly unique product. When you compare the HD650 to any other can you want you will probably think they aren't worth its price. After all, we are talking about a mid-ranged based can that has no downsides nor upsides (sans for the insane mid-range, that is). The problem is that... there isn't a single style in which they don't shine. They do everything just right, and nothing wrong. They don't excel at any style (sans for those based on the mid-range). They are a do-it-all-right can (which is something unique on its own).

BUT, as If that weren't enough... there is something that isn't stated enough. Even when using high-end systems its impossible to control everything we listen (quality wise). I'm sure you look some videos on the net from time to time, or listen to spotify or, heck, just listen to some ripped audio you have no idea the quality in which they were ripped. When you do that... you find yourself crying tears because such music is unfathomable. Even when watching movies you will find yourself hearing out-of-scene things you weren't supposed to listen that will ruin the experience for you. For instance, I love the HD600 to death... but only when I know that the music is properly recorded, produced and mastered. Watching a movie with the HD600 tends to be a pain in the ass, unless I'm trying to find mistakes or screw-ups (in which case they are terrific at such task).

The HD650? You can put anything you want through them, EVERYTHING sounds proper. I have no idea how, but this cans are meant to enjoy the music the way it was thought, and not to analyze or study it (I studied classical music for 10 years) or go find the mistakes in it.

So, when you put everything together, you have a master-piece: not only they make everything sound right, nor are SUPER comfy, nor are able to filter the crap out of the music... they do it all at once without removing even a slight detail. With their warmish feel, and delicate mids but, at the same time, with a never-painful treble and a more than capable bass.

The only thing which really concerned me about the 650s compared to the AKGs (specifically, the 65th Anniversary 702s, which the 712 Pro is almost identical to) is the soundstage. Mad Lust Envy, over on Head-Fi, has a somewhat exhaustive rundown of headphones specifically in relation to positional audio (Dolby Headphone, I believe -- but I would presume that if one has a great soundstage to present positional audio via DH, it would be just as good at the job under SBX and others...?).

It is one of the few negatives he dings the 650s for and one of the things he praises the 702 for. Or, more accurately, he praises the 702s ability to pick sounds and locations apart, which to me sounds like "positioning" which means soundstage (admittedly, I'm reading into it a bit, there).

For the 650s, he notes:

source: source: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad...aming-guide-updated-9-2-2013-sony-ma900-added

Soundstage:
I haven't gotten to the specifics of gaming with the HD650s yet, but I'll mention the soundstage first. With and without extra amping the Mixamp, I felt the HD650's soundstage to be medium sized. Not big, and not little. However, I didn't find them to be stellar in terms of depth, so the sense of space for gaming, wasn't as good as I would have hoped. I was always expecting the HD650 to not be the greatest pairing for Dolby Headphone, and my fears were slightly warranted. The front/back depth isn't great. Let's get that out of the way. The width is good, but not close to being the best. The DT990 destroys the HD650 in both depth and width. So how's the air within the soundstage? Well, the problem with the HD650, is that it's a very full sounding headphone. Thick, warm tone tends to make the soundstage seems less airy and smaller. This is one of those times where a thinner/leaner sounding headphone has the advantage, like the AD700/HD598/K701. The HD650 isn't STUFFY like say the ESW9, but that rich tonality doesn't help gamers.


Positioning:
Positioning and soundstage tend to go hand in hand, so if the soundstage isn't great, the positional cues will suffer. How did the HD650 fare positional-wise? Well, they were good. Not great, and could obviously be better, but they do their job. I could play something like Black Ops without any problems, though having used headphones much better for soundstage/positioning, I could tell they lacked a bit. I'd put the HD650 just ever so slightly above the DT880 positional wise, but they aren't that much better.


... of course, this may be where we are entering the point of differentiating the quality of superb things from one another -- like nitpicking over the difference between two Cowboys cheerleaders, when either one would more than perfectly suffice.


Sure, if you said you were going to listen to some specific genres, or wanted a can to do some mastering or wanted something very specific, there are far better choices out there. But if you want a do-it-all can, imo, there is nothing better than the HD650.

I don't listen to a lot of music and when I do I have a wide gamut that would necessitate multiple headphones to really address the best qualities of each. Industrial, classic rock, classical, jazz, etc. In an effort to simplify my life and my pocketbook, I gave up hoarding CDs or even coveting lossless encodings and have found streaming libraries sufficient (enough for the $5/mo they cost, at least). MOG streams at 320kbps and RDIO . . . is secretive, but believed to be 192-256kbps. Fine enough for my limited music needs, but by no means demanding source material. For the majority of the time, anything that is not gaming would be directed through my attached receiver and B&W 5.1 system, anyway -- which is superior to probably anything I could ever afford in a headphone. So, gaming (across many genres) is the primary focus.

As such, I presume you also do a fair bit of gaming with your various headphones? Do you find the 650 to excel at this?


BTW, you will need an amp to drive them, but they aren't terribly specific about it so even an Objective 2 amp will do (around $100).

I'll be using the Sound Blaster ZXR which has a TI 6120A2 chip that provides 120dB and 80mW into 600 ohm. I'm a software engineer and not an electrical engineer, but that should mean 160mW into 300 ohm, right? Is that not enough? I'm kind of hoping for the ZXR card to be as many solutions in one as it can so I can avoid having to connect things into things into things.

If not, then I'm open to suggestions for fairly idea amps for the 650 -- the ZXR is $250 and the 650 is $500, so no point skimping on the amp if I really must get one? If so, it only acts as the amp and relies on the card for the processing, still, right?


Much appreciated!
 
The headphone out on most AVRs are pretty underwhelming, actually. Just because it is part of a big box doesn't make it better than a soundcard.

Didn't realize that. I could never find the specs for the head-out on my receiver, but always assumed it must be superior to anything I'd ever be able to slot into a motherboard and sort of used it as a reference for quality (which isn't that hard, mind you, since all I've been using is the onboard Realtek HD for my P8Z77-WS motherboard).
 
Can I just retain you to follow me around and synopsize my entire life for me? I think most people around me would greatly appreciate your skill. :p

Those were notes I made while reading through your post, and I figured I might as well post them in case they were of any benefit to others, haha.

I own the MMX 300s. They are an excellent headset, and pretty much your only option if you want a gaming (and general media) headset (and specifically a headset) which acts as an acceptable stand-in for music, assuming you are an audio enthusiast.

To be clear, however, the MMX 300s are expensive for what they are. There are better sounding headphones out there for less money, and the Sennheiser headsets are generally better than the MMX 300s for competition gaming. They are a luxury item for people who can't be bothered with fussing with a separate microphone solution or with swapping their gaming headset off their heads and picking up one of the other headphones sitting right next to them.

I stand guilty as charged.

OK so that was a tad harsh, I suppose the MMX 300s are also for those who want one, well-rounded, headset for all media, be it a game, movie, or music, and for those who want them to last nearly forever throughout hours and hours of fatigue free usage. And they don't mind paying for the convenience of getting it all in one package.

And for what they are they are the best, if not the only, option on the market.

As far as comparing many of the top-tier headphones goes... you're getting into a realm where genre and personal preferences affect things greatly; these are all excellent headphones. For me though: HE-500 < Tesla T1 < HD 800. I'd probably place the HD 700 after, equal to, or even before the HE-500 depending on what I am listening to. (The HE-500 probably wins out over the HD 700 in terms of cost efficiency for me.)

Lastly, if you're going all the way up to $1,500 you'll have far more options than the above list, including HiFiMAN's own HE-6 (although you're not going to have a hope in hell of properly driving this model using a sound card alone).
 
Didn't realize that. I could never find the specs for the head-out on my receiver, but always assumed it must be superior to anything I'd ever be able to slot into a motherboard and sort of used it as a reference for quality (which isn't that hard, mind you, since all I've been using is the onboard Realtek HD for my P8Z77-WS motherboard).

It really depends on the AVR, but generally the headphone out on consumer AVRs is little more than an afterthought. Further, the specs don't tell you much of anything regarding sound quality.

I could advertise 200dB SNR!!! But that matters little when for example standard CD quality audio has a minimum noise floor of 70dB SNR or so.

In my sig rig, my Xonar STX with my HD595s blows my AVR headphone with the same cans away in quality, in addition to probably specs as well...should be noted that my AVR was an upper-tier model of 10 years ago or so.
 
I believe the current wait for a ModMic is a minimum of four months. :/



Admittedly, the beamform is what sold me on this (when I heard someone I trust review it and say it actually worked and replaced their need for using a headset at all, I pretty much bought into it and had to try it) -- but my understanding is that SBX is supposed to be superior to DH?

I'm not an audiophile, though, so my knowledge with regard to sound card and audio technologies is meager. This isn't an issue like we had with EAX, right? That is, I'm not going to play a game and find out "sorry, this game only supports DH and not SBX" or the other way around, right?

I would really love to play with both, but that's a big investment.

On the other hand, my younger lives in my house while he's going to school so I could always offload my least preferred to him as a gift . . .

And I'd still get to play with double the toys for awhile . . .

Gah, I'm so impulsive. :)

Creative cards use cmss3d for surround virtualization. The Xonar cards use Dolby Headphone.

EAX has nothing to do with virtual surround.

Both cards support EAX on older games that use it. Although it will generally work better on the ZXR for the demanding EAX games like BF2.

IMO EAX support is nothing to worry about in 2013. It's dead.

As far as cmss3d vs. DH just google and you'll find varying opinions.
 
This is what I'd wondered between these and the AKG 712 Pros. The design of the AKGs looks potentially flimsy and I'm nto sure how comfortable the leather strap would be. I'd presume it must be pretty comfortable, since it alleviates the weight and pressure of any solid head strap like with other headphones?

The AKG K701 has some AWESOME earpads but a torture-like headband. Its so damn uncomfortable that you'd rather have your skull drilled than wear those for prolonged sessions. Why? Because the awesome engineers at AKG placed some bumps in there. So, pressure ain't uniform at all.

On the other hand it seems the K712 have those stupid bumps removed... which should make them VERY comfy. The thing is, though, the earpads are kinda different. To me the HD650 earpads are as good as they get since all the pressure the cans make is spread evenly across your ear surroundings, whereas on other cans, EVEN when your ear is sitting inside the earpad the pressure is focused on certain points (because most of the cans aren't as adjustable as the HD650 are).

I'm concerned about build quality, but other than transporting these around for a few moves during my life, I'm not going to be taking the bus with them or even going upstairs to listen to them. They'll very likely stay at my desk forever and only suffer the occasional drop.

I do hope replacement parts are not difficult, though. This seems to be an issue with AKG. Their 712 Pro has a refined ear pad that seems to actually play a part in the accoustics (the bass retention, I guess?) -- so if they're worn or damaged, you have to drop another $40-70 to replace them.

The HD650 come in a huge, bulky and strong box. So, should you move from time to time you could use it.

Replacements? Every part you could ever need:

http://headphonespares.sennheiser.co.uk/hifi-tv-headphones/hd-650

It doesn't matter what part brakes, even if its one of the drivers: every bit is replaceable.

My goal for the way a headphone feels would be that it seems more "open" than oppressive. I love my MDR-V6s, but it feels like what a *cat* must feel like, on a leash.

When you wear them and not having any music on them, is like having nothing on your ears since you can listen to anything around you. And even when you are wearing them you don't get tired of them.

One of the important things when looking at cans that you plan to wear for hours is how tiring they get... and the HD650 won't ever bother you because its treble is not a pita, as it is in many other cans.

The only thing which really concerned me about the 650s compared to the AKGs (specifically, the 65th Anniversary 702s, which the 712 Pro is almost identical to) is the soundstage. Mad Lust Envy, over on Head-Fi, has a somewhat exhaustive rundown of headphones specifically in relation to positional audio (Dolby Headphone, I believe -- but I would presume that if one has a great soundstage to present positional audio via DH, it would be just as good at the job under SBX and others...?).

It is one of the few negatives he dings the 650s for and one of the things he praises the 702 for. Or, more accurately, he praises the 702s ability to pick sounds and locations apart, which to me sounds like "positioning" which means soundstage (admittedly, I'm reading into it a bit, there).

For the 650s, he notes:

... of course, this may be where we are entering the point of differentiating the quality of superb things from one another -- like nitpicking over the difference between two Cowboys cheerleaders, when either one would more than perfectly suffice.

I actively play with my computer, and have been playing at some leagues, etc. The rule of thumb is: you don't need the BEST gaming-audio in order to know where people are. You just need to know the map you are playing and the different sounds featured on the game, and you are set. Heck, I could precisely pinpoint people with the Sennheiser HD25 1 II (which have ZERO soundstage). So, go figure.

The list Mad Lust Envy made is based on the target of getting the best POSITIONAL AUDIO without caring one bit about audio quality. To me, I simply can't get my head over the idea of having high-end cans and sacrificing said quality for just a "tad" better positional cues. Sure, If you do gaming for a living (or almost) and have a computer focused on such target then... sure, I'd totally understand going that route. But when you play for fun (or even have a team but you do it as a hobby), there is no need to go such lenghts, even more so when its a trade-off (quality over positioning).

Also, there is something you should understand when using virtualizers such as DH or any other: it ruins your sound quality, because it has to modify the sound AFTER it gets produced by your game in order to give it some depth sense. Some may worsen your sound less than others but the fact remains: it makes your sound quality worse.

For instance, I do agree that the K702 have better sound-stage than the HD650... but it sounds unnatural, as its far too wide. Music has no depth in it, unless we are talking into experimental music that uses depth as part of it. And lets not talk about the "highly regarded" AD700... which sound like a pile of crap to me because they have ZERO bass. They just sound meaningless, thin and lacking. Which is why "gaming-focused" sound guides should be taken with a grain (or a truck-load) of salt when you are looking for a balanced sound system and not to gain a little in some regards but sacrifice everything in all the others.

At this moment I'm looking to get a DH sound card so I can experiment myself but It should be AMAZING in order to use its capabilities every time I'm playing some fps games. But still, I'm curious enough that I'll get something like a Xonar U7 (since it has a line out that can be plugged on my Objective 2 amp), but only because I like to tinker with stuff from time to time and... heck, it isn't that expensive that I can't afford it :D

I don't listen to a lot of music and when I do I have a wide gamut that would necessitate multiple headphones to really address the best qualities of each. Industrial, classic rock, classical, jazz, etc. In an effort to simplify my life and my pocketbook, I gave up hoarding CDs or even coveting lossless encodings and have found streaming libraries sufficient (enough for the $5/mo they cost, at least). MOG streams at 320kbps and RDIO . . . is secretive, but believed to be 192-256kbps. Fine enough for my limited music needs, but by no means demanding source material. For the majority of the time, anything that is not gaming would be directed through my attached receiver and B&W 5.1 system, anyway -- which is superior to probably anything I could ever afford in a headphone. So, gaming (across many genres) is the primary focus.

So, if you listen to a lot of genres AND to a lot of streamed music... there is nothing such as the HD650 for such thing. They chew through everything and make it bearable no matter how crappy the recording/producing/mastering was... which, nowadays, sucks most of the time. I still have no idea how the HD650 "polarize" the sound in such ways as to make it bearable without taking any detail in the process... but it works.

As such, I presume you also do a fair bit of gaming with your various headphones? Do you find the 650 to excel at this?

To me the HD650 are a very submersive set, because they sound really natural. Nothing is really out of place, nothing is too bright (distracting, or even hurting) and nothing is boomy. Sure, sometimes I use other cans when I know I'll be listening to a specific genre for some time but my recurring cans are the HD650, no doubt about it. Doesn't matter if its Dota, Counter Strike, Battlefield 3, some Stalker or any other thing: they just give me what I want every single time (except when I want some really good oooommph because my brain needs a push, then I plug my DT770 or D2000 :D ).

I'll be using the Sound Blaster ZXR which has a TI 6120A2 chip that provides 120dB and 80mW into 600 ohm. I'm a software engineer and not an electrical engineer, but that should mean 160mW into 300 ohm, right? Is that not enough? I'm kind of hoping for the ZXR card to be as many solutions in one as it can so I can avoid having to connect things into things into things.

The problem with high-end audio is that power ain't your main concern. You need a balance between amperage and voltage, and sound cards can't deliver enough juice to run the HD650 (nor any other Sennheiser cans of the HD5xx series, or the gaming PC350/360, which I also own, both) properly. Sure, they will sound... but you will be missing LOTS of things. For starters the PC360 sound "thin" and weak without proper amping, to the point I'd rather have some $25 Superlux cans (that I own, too) to the more expensive PC360 If I had no amp. Still, PC360 and PC350 have a very crappy sound quality/price ratio EVEN when amped.

If not, then I'm open to suggestions for fairly idea amps for the 650 -- the ZXR is $250 and the 650 is $500, so no point skimping on the amp if I really must get one? If so, it only acts as the amp and relies on the card for the processing, still, right?


Much appreciated!

I'm not a believer into sinergies nor "magic". A cable is a cable is a cable, just as an amp is an amp is an amp. My idea of a proper amp is simply "a wire with gain" or, to be accurate, something that gives some strength to the signal without changing one bit.

After testing some other more expensive amps (such as the Matrix M-Stage, a copy of the Lehman Black Linear Cube, which retails for $1000 and is a recognised pairing with the HD650) my Objective 2 gives me everything the HD650 could ever need, and much more. All for the price of around $100 (and its small, doesn't take a lot of desk real state, etc).

Why is it that cheap? Because its an open-source design, thats why. There are some companies around the globe that produce it (or you can do it yourself if you are into DIY). If you are in the USA, jdslabs has it. In Europe, you have epiphany and some others. At the end of the day, the product is just the same.
 
i love my HD650's and O2 for gaming. my main objective is the 'experience' (high quality sound) and not necessarily the best competitive edge i can get. even so i have no problems honing in on positional cues. for music listening i agree with prava everything just sounds great on these. if i had to do it over again i'd still get the HD650's and O2. or maybe the HD650's and Magni just because the aesthetics are more "oooh look at that" and not as much "what the hell are all those wires going to?" like the O2 evokes :D
 
i love my HD650's and O2 for gaming. my main objective is the 'experience' (high quality sound) and not necessarily the best competitive edge i can get. even so i have no problems honing in on positional cues. for music listening i agree with prava everything just sounds great on these. if i had to do it over again i'd still get the HD650's and O2. or maybe the HD650's and Magni just because the aesthetics are more "oooh look at that" and not as much "what the hell are all those wires going to?" like the O2 evokes :D

It seems I'm not the only "HD650 lover" in here :D :D :D :D :D
 
I wanted to know if moving from Xonar Phoebus to ZXR cause I want the SBX position surround , I don't like Dolby Surround.

Would it be worth ? and ZXR can handle DT990 600 ohm, because I saw people said it doesn't.

Thanks
 
I wanted to know if moving from Xonar Phoebus to ZXR cause I want the SBX position surround , I don't like Dolby Surround.

Would it be worth ? and ZXR can handle DT990 600 ohm, because I saw people said it doesn't.

Thanks

Handle the 600ohm beyers just fine.
 
I'm just going to say that while I have not heard the HD 800's or many other high end earphones (the DT990's and HD598 aside, which the T1 are quite a bit ahead of imo... although they're pricier), I do like my T1's and enjoy them more each day. They are bright, though. If you're sensitive to sibilance like I am, this will take some getting used to. Some music might leave you hurting. They seem to get better with time, though. Tons of detail and everything. Haven't found any type of track that they just don't work with in terms of bringing everything out. I just deal with the occasional track that makes me hurt, but I'm getting used to the sibilance too. Small price to pay for how good things sound.

That and I got them for 600$ like new which was a decent deal. They're more expensive now, but they're still in your price range on Amazon if you just want to try them out and be able to return them.

For gaming... Hmm... I have a Creative Z series, so maybe I should try hooking them into it and seeing how the positional stuff is if you want. I've never tried that. I use an O2 dac amp and I usually play music louder than the game volume. Yeah gets me killed sometimes in FC3 but I could care less, it's just more fun with music to me. But again I can give it a shot if you want.
 
I wanted to know if moving from Xonar Phoebus to ZXR cause I want the SBX position surround , I don't like Dolby Surround.

Would it be worth ? and ZXR can handle DT990 600 ohm, because I saw people said it doesn't.

Thanks

SBX isn't better than straight stereo in BF4. It might improve some games but so far I have not heard one that does.

Good stereo headphones + stereo source = best sound. The less steps you have in the chain the better.
 
SBX isn't better than straight stereo in BF4. It might improve some games but so far I have not heard one that does.

Good stereo headphones + stereo source = best sound. The less steps you have in the chain the better.

ok, that's only in BF4 ?

But people usually choose Home Cinema + Stereo or Surround, I still don't understand if the Stereo is 2.1 and the Surround is 5.1/7.1 is it game processing engine or is it just the channel you for sound card.

No one yet find the answer to this.

If I go headphones SBX off and I want Stereo 2.1 from the game, do I set HomeCinema + Stereo, what will the surround do then ?

If I choose with SBX On and I want surround, do I set HomeCinema + Surround, what will the stereo do ?

It's bloody complicated :confused:


Edit : I still ordered the card from Amazon for $224 , everything total + tax and delivery cost is $308 :X , I want to live in america xd
 
This sounds like Audeze LCD-2 money.
http://www.audeze.com/products/headphones/lcd-2

Or HD 650's. You can never go wrong with HD 650's, they're very good at making anything sound wonderful. Which is not to say they distort your high quality music, they just present substandard recordings in the best possible way.
 
How is it possible to get 5Hz - 20kHz extension to 50kHz ? what is that extension, my DT990 600 ohm can only do 5-35 , this can do 50 ??!
 
ok, that's only in BF4 ?

But people usually choose Home Cinema + Stereo or Surround, I still don't understand if the Stereo is 2.1 and the Surround is 5.1/7.1 is it game processing engine or is it just the channel you for sound card.

No one yet find the answer to this.

If I go headphones SBX off and I want Stereo 2.1 from the game, do I set HomeCinema + Stereo, what will the surround do then ?

If I choose with SBX On and I want surround, do I set HomeCinema + Surround, what will the stereo do ?

It's bloody complicated :confused:

Edit : I still ordered the card from Amazon for $224 , everything total + tax and delivery cost is $308 :X , I want to live in america xd

Just stereo. No need to add to it unless your headphones are not up to par. All of those tricks make it sound different but not better. The SB series does a great job with its headphone sound presentation without any of the software tricks. Now, everyone hears differently. So it may be that you need a boost in certain frequencies. I am just letting you know that it is best to start barebones and work from there. Do not turn everything on from the jump.
 
HD650 honestly. No need to spend more as the returns begin to diminish drastically when you start hitting $1000+. Nothing really touches the HD650's in their price range except the HE-400's. But those two are a matter of taste. I recommend the HD650's because of the wide spread love and some people find the HE-400's bright and a bit uncomfortable (however with $15 of mods you can fix that problem entirely).
 
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