Headphones Vs. Speakers

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Oleg34

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Since it's clear that headphones are the "gateway drug" for the next generation of audiophiles, let's look at how listening through headphones differs from listening to room-based speaker system. http://audiophilereview.com/headphones/how-headphone-listening-is-different.html

So as i could understand Headphone are more profound in terms of sound quality.

I have JBL 88 headphones.http://www.jbl.com/on/demandware.st...wvar_J88_color=Black&cgid=over-ear-headphones and Logitech z623 speakers. http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/speaker-system-z623
The speakers don't sound as clear and also they sound flat as fuck, unlike headphones.
 
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That's also because those speakers are bad. You need to spend a lot more on speakers (and an amplifier) to get good ones that really have strong presence.
 
There's so much to consider, but primarily what you get for the same cost in each product category varies greatly.

$300 headphones vs $300 speakers will be lightyears apart.
 
I think comparing speakers to headphones to is like comparing desktop PCs to smartphones. Or an 18-wheel semi-tractor truck to a sports car. Different tools, different uses. You shouldn't be trying to compare the two.
 
Like some people above said, those aren't 'great' speakers. Both headphones and speakers have their place. Headphones in general are more of a personal experience. If you have roommates, a wife / girlfriend, children or neighbors? You're probably going to want headphones as you can crank it up and not shake the house. That being said, open headphones can leak noise. Speakers are great if you want to fill a room and shake your house. And the house of your neighbor :rolleyes:

It all depends on your use case, what your goal is and what you're comfortable with. I have both headphones and speakers. I have a pair of Klipsch Promedia 2.1 speakers that I've modded with better wire inside and out. It improved the quality and punch a lot. They were $75 on sale and are great for the rare instances that I use them. Most of the time they're turned down and just there for background music, sound to a game or a movie. If you want something amazing, you're going to need to put together your own 2.1, 4.1, 5.1 or 7.1 system, and that can start getting extremely expensive.

Headphones are more for attentive personal listening. In general, you're going to get better sound for your money. Whether that be music, gaming, etc. I use a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50's. All said and done they're over triple the cost of the speaker, but the sound quality is leaps and bounds better than the speakers. They sound great, but really shine when amplified. Which keep in mind you'll need in some fashion.

I currently run my headphones through a Sound Blaster Z which has an amplified headphone port. You're going to need to amplify any decent pair of headphones. Without amplification you won't get your moneys worth and onboard audio won't cut it. It's not the quality of the sound so much as onboard audio solutions don't have the ability to power large drivers (the speakers) in decent headphones. You're going to want an amp or dac with amp so that you can properly drive the headphones. Keep this in mind when buying cans. Personally, if I could do it over I would get a DAC from the get-go.

Long story short. I'd stick with what you've got unless you want to shake your house. Start small with some decent headphones and a good dac. Remember that audio is subjective. Don't take one persons opinion and stay the hell away from product recommendations on wooden headphones / tube amps / etc from pretentious audiophile dorks.
 
You have a LOT to learn in your quest. I suggest visiting a high-end expo to see what audio can be. You'll probably faint with the price tags but on the other hand you'll probably throw those logitechs to where they belong i.e. trash.
 
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I have Sennheiser HD555 headphones (2007) and MAudio BX5a's (2011). The problem is these speakers don't fit on my desk and I generally like to watch shows in private, so I have only tried them twice since I bought them. I would have used a cheaper pair of desktop speakers more frequently as long as they fit on my desk, however, I still would have preferred my headphones for shows, movies, and games.
 
There was a thread about this not long ago, you might check that out:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1867786

I don't think that this is a question that can be answered absent of context. I also don't feel that it should be an either/or type of decision. Get both, use whichever makes sense at the time. I usually prefer headphones for gaming, but prefer speakers for music. That isn't to say that headphones are bad for music, but they simply cannot replicate the feel of the music the way speakers can. I love loud music and I love to feel every beat of the drum hit my chest like a jackhammer.
 
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GotNoRice said:
There was a thread about this not long ago, you might check that out:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1867786

I don't think that this is a question that can be answered absent of context. I also don't feel that it should be an either/or type of decision. Get both, use whichever makes sense at the time. I usually prefer headphones for gaming, but prefer speakers for music. That isn't to say that headphones are bad for music, but they simply cannot replicate the feel of the music the way speakers can. I love loud music and I love to feel every beat of the drum hit my chest like a jackhammer.
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The same here. I am more into music as well. I like playing music as loud as i can. Also sound quality is a top priority.

And thank you all for your responses.
 
I find them both equally satisfying but have no idea why.
 
Oleg34 said:
Since it's clear that headphones are the "gateway drug" for the next generation of audiophiles, let's look at how listening through headphones differs from listening to room-based speaker system. http://audiophilereview.com/headphones/how-headphone-listening-is-different.html

So as i could understand Headphone are more profound in terms of sound quality.

I have JBL 88 headphones.http://www.jbl.com/on/demandware.st...wvar_J88_color=Black&cgid=over-ear-headphones and Logitech z623 speakers. http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/speaker-system-z623
The speakers don't sound as clear and also they sound flat as fuck, unlike headphones.
Click to expand...

Because they're Logitech speakers and junk.

Further it is far easier to make headphones that sound good than make speakers that sound comparably good. And as such the former will be far cheaper, and sound better under every room-acoustic.

-PK- said:
I have Sennheiser HD555 headphones (2007) and MAudio BX5a's (2011). The problem is these speakers don't fit on my desk and I generally like to watch shows in private, so I have only tried them twice since I bought them. I would have used a cheaper pair of desktop speakers more frequently as long as they fit on my desk, however, I still would have preferred my headphones for shows, movies, and games.
Click to expand...


Did you do the HD555 mod to make the HD595s? All it takes is a fine screw driver and 5 minutes and those cans will sound even better.
 
I'm actually thinking about buying the head tracking system because lately I have little chances to play music through speakers. The problem is that no shop close to me has the DSpeaker system on display and I never buy expensive audio products without listening.
 
0ptional said:
There's so much to consider, but primarily what you get for the same cost in each product category varies greatly.

$300 headphones vs $300 speakers will be lightyears apart.
Click to expand...

Sennheiser HD 650's vs JBL LSR308's? They both sound pretty decent tbh.
 
The problem I have with headphones is that to get a satisfactory (to me) bass response, more pressure on my eardrums is needed.

With my speakers, I feel much of the bass through the seat, floor or my body.
Headphones cannot do this and with the same relative power to bass frequencies, I find bass to be underwhelming.
I found that I wanted to play the music louder or EQ more bass in.

My brother was a headphone buff, mainly because he is into quality sound and had neighbours quite close.
He suffered damage to his hearing such that he cannot use headphones any more and cant turn his hifi up much beyond normal TV listening level otherwise he gets ringing in his ears.
This was caused by playing loud enough to get a pleasurable bass response from his headphones.

fyi
 
Nenu said:
The problem I have with headphones is that to get a satisfactory (to me) bass response, more pressure on my eardrums is needed.

With my speakers, I feel much of the bass through the seat, floor or my body.
Headphones cannot do this and with the same relative power to bass frequencies, I find bass to be underwhelming.
I found that I wanted to play the music louder or EQ more bass in.

My brother was a headphone buff, mainly because he is into quality sound and had neighbours quite close.
He suffered damage to his hearing such that he cannot use headphones any more and cant turn his hifi up much beyond normal TV listening level otherwise he gets ringing in his ears.
This was caused by playing loud enough to get a pleasurable bass response from his headphones.

fyi
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... Your brother was NOT getting a"pleasurable response "either way... He inflicted hearing damage on himself. If you're cranking things loud enough to vibrate your internal organs, you're doing hearing damage to yourself as well.


Learn from people who do dumb things. Don't replicate them, as you are.
 
Skripka said:
... Your brother was NOT getting a"pleasurable response "either way... He inflicted hearing damage on himself. If you're cranking things loud enough to vibrate your internal organs, you're doing hearing damage to yourself as well.


Learn from people who do dumb things. Don't replicate them, as you are.
Click to expand...

Where did you get that from?
 
Nenu said:
Where did you get that from?
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I work in audio...and I know what amplitudes it takes to cause furniture and architectural members to vibrate from speakers. And working in audio I see 1/2-deaf idiot kids every day who are too stupid to know their earbuds are permanently destroying their hearing.

If you need to cause earthquakes to find "pleasure" in listening....you've already done and are continuing to do exactly what your fool brother did, just with speakers instead of 'cans.
 
I enjoy louder bass and louder overall sound than my brother but I have not induced ringing to my hearing from playing music loud on my hifi.
The difference is, I dont use headphones.

I agree he has played them too loud, that is obvious.
The point of my comment was to warn people not to play headphones too loud, its very easy to do.
Thanks.
 
Skripka said:
If you need to cause earthquakes to find "pleasure" in listening....you've already done and are continuing to do exactly what your fool brother did, just with speakers instead of 'cans.
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That's just not true at all. Acoustic coupling between your body and a speaker sounds dramatically different than headphones. I'd personally rather have 90db directed at my whole body than 100db in my ears to elicit a similar effect... The lungs, especially, tend to vibrate around 50hz. A powerful 50hz tone really does elicit a lung feel, and harmonics (say, 25hz) can do the same .

Tactile transducers, for example, really change how one "feels" music without changing spl values at all down to their steep roll off. I personally use an infinite baffle 15" woofer at 10w in my mattress box spring to elicit a "feeling" of bass in a condo bedroom oriented listening room. It is low passed around 50hz and high passed at 20hz (Xmax limitations) to compliment a set of 10" bass woofers in damped 4 way towers.
 
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Yep I agree, a proper subwoofer will create body-slamming effects at moderate volumes. It's just that most subwoofers lack the ability to play truly dynamic bass.
 
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Arcygenical said:
That's just not true at all. Acoustic coupling between your body and a speaker sounds dramatically different than headphones. I'd personally rather have 90db directed at my whole body than 100db in my ears to elicit a similar effect... The lungs, especially, tend to vibrate around 50hz. A powerful 50hz tone really does elicit a lung feel, and harmonics (say, 25hz) can do the same .

Tactile transducers, for example, really change how one "feels" music without changing spl values at all down to their steep roll off. I personally use an infinite baffle 15" woofer at 10w in my mattress box spring to elicit a "feeling" of bass in a condo bedroom oriented listening room. It is low passed around 50hz and high passed at 20hz (Xmax limitations) to compliment a set of 10" bass woofers in damped 4 way towers.
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... Do you know what 90dB and 100dB are? They're both fcking loud and bad for your ears. I say that as someone who has to work around the stuff, an who's workplace has a calibrated instrument microphone rated to measure up to 134dB accurately... And who's workplace has 95dB sound limit in pace measured 130ft away at the house mixing console.

90dB or 100dB is like arguing whether horse or cow dung is more nutritious. 90db to 100dB is what you get in the stage wings at a rock concert at about 30ft from the action.
 
Skripka said:
... Do you know what 90dB and 100dB are? They're both fcking loud and bad for your ears. I say that as someone who has to work around the stuff, an who's workplace has a calibrated instrument microphone rated to measure up to 134dB accurately... And who's workplace has 95dB sound limit in pace measured 130ft away at the house mixing console.

90dB or 100dB is like arguing whether horse or cow dung is more nutritious. 90db to 100dB is what you get in the stage wings at a rock concert at about 30ft from the action.
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A peak of 90db and on bass frequencies is hardly the same as listening to a steady 90db 1khz for an hour. It is possible to produce a bass that can be felt (indoors) with moderate overall music levels - at least if you have the right equipment.

A muddy POS 8-10" 'sub' will require a lot more volume to have any kind of punch compared to a 2x18" tapped horn, TL etc. higher end subs or bass units.

My horn loaded 18" bass produces tactile motion even at moderate volumes up to a couple of meters. Then if I turn it up to it's full ability (130+db) the tools begin to drop from the garage walls.
 
B00nie said:
A peak of 90db and on bass frequencies is hardly the same as listening to a steady 90db 1khz for an hour. It is possible to produce a bass that can be felt (indoors) with moderate overall music levels - at least if you have the right equipment.

A muddy POS 8-10" 'sub' will require a lot more volume to have any kind of punch compared to a 2x18" tapped horn, TL etc. higher end subs or bass units.

My horn loaded 18" bass produces tactile motion even at moderate volumes up to a couple of meters. Then if I turn it up to it's full ability (130+db) the tools begin to drop from the garage walls.
Click to expand...

True on all counts...however my comparison to the stage wings at a rock concert is apt...as in those areas you are behind the line arrays-and most of what you get are the subs as lower frequencies tend to be far less directional and line-of-sight compared to higher freqs. In the backstage wings you get very little of the 1kHz and up stuff aside from any line-of-sight room slapback, only the gut-punching low end.

Fundamentally, saying ridiculously loud speakers are less bad for your ears than ridiculously loud headphone cans so buy speakers...is ridiculous.
 
Skripka said:
Fundamentally, saying ridiculously loud speakers are less bad for your ears than ridiculously loud headphone cans so buy speakers...is ridiculous.
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While true, headphones have one very dangerous aspect to them. People tend to misjudge the volume levels they're using grossly. As a result many people play insane SPL on their earbuds - usually the louder the more crappy the buds are because they can't hear the bass and pump up the volume to compensate.

I regret that I let my children use low quality headphones when they were small. My son got hearing damage from it.
 
Not sure why, but even though my headphones likely produce superior sound, I mosty prefer listening with my speakers (Presonus Eris E5's and Presonus Temblor T8 sub). It feels more alive where I can feel the bass vibrations and the sound seems to envelope me. This was not true with my old Logitech Z5300's.
 
I prefer speakers because I don't like being chained to my desk when listening to music. However, headphones are more convenient when you have a ton of stuff on the desk, which makes placing speakers difficult. In my case, my right speaker is actually blocked because I have dual monitors.

EDIT:

Aaaaand I didn't read the OP. Please ignore.
 
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My Beyer T1's are great, and they're far superior for gaming. With them, I tend to have a 360 sense of where all footsteps are and whatnot. Music sounds great, too.

... But I mostly use my Vanatoo T1's, aside from when I have to voice chat with people. Why? Because I don't have to put something on my head, and music still sounds wonderful. Plus, you can kind of "feel" it more with speakers. That, and I can go and do something else while still listening to them. Headphones are great, sonically, though. Bang for the buck, they're better deals simply due to the physics involved. Also the added benefit of being able to listen loudly without waking anyone up.

Oh, this was about the OP's case, not a general anecdotal survey. Um... yeah, you're using trash. Sorry.
 
Headphones have an advantage overall. There is a LOT more bang for the buck in headphones. There is no comparison. That is not even including the amplification and cable requirements which are significantly more expensive for speakers.

For a good speaker setup you need:
(1) Good speakers;
(2) Good speaker cable;
(3) A good source/DAC
(4) and
a. a good pre-amplifier and power amplifier;
b. or a good integrated amplifier (pre and power in one chasis)
c. or a good receiver (none of them are that good).
(5) Good interconnect cables to connect your components together;
(6) A room with proper dimensions for sound reproduction;
(7) Acoustic treatment for the room
(8) Privacy to enjoy.

With a headphone setup the whole setup is DAC --> Headphone Amp --> Headphones and probably one good set of interconnect cable.

You have to be simply filthy rich to get the same level of relative performance out of speakers as a pair of high end headphones like say a Grado PS1000 or Sennheiser HD800. But ultimately a speaker setup is capable of going much deeper in the bass range, in some cases at or below the limits of human hearing, which headphones simply inherently cannot do. So the headphone is a compromise.
 
dp x2 !
Not sure whats going on.
 
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I agree with you in principle and with almost everything you say.
But you can get an amazing speaker setup for much less than you might imagine, some of it needs more effort.
Its still not cheap but you dont need to be rich.
The second DAC option is a one stop shop for headphone enthusiasts as well!


Van Damme speaker wire is the business, it is high class without the cost.
It costs more than mains wire but nothing like the exotic cables.


You can control the volume of an external DAC from the PCs media player.
This does away with the need for a preamp allowing a direct connection to power amps.
This gives you the best connection that DAC can achieve with your amp.
This method of using an external DAC isnt much use for anything other than a computer sound system unless the DAC has multiple inputs and the devices connecting also have their own volume control.


If you want the best DAC without spending a sheer fortune and a complete media centre with Blu Ray player and no need for a pre-amp, get the Oppo 105 BD Player.
This will set you back £1000 but its that bloody good, its worth it.
You dont need to be rich to buy one, consider it the one piece of kit worth that level of investment and the last DAC you will need for 10 years!
You can use it in a home entertainment or PC setup, it has 2 volume controls for speakers and headphones.
And the headphone amp is first class, you get some of the money back not having to buy one. And no interconnects required either because the headphone amp is built in so you get the full quality!
It even has a separate Sabre32 Reference DAC for Headphones/PC USB, the other DAC is for all 7.1 media.
It can be plugged directly into a power amp (or amps for 7.1) so you dont lose quality through a pre-amp, another saving to recoup the cost.
There is network in from PC/NAS or the internet with built in apps, optical/coax SPDIF in and out, Dual HDMI in and out, 192K PC USB in, USB drive inputs for pens or HDs which can play almost any media type you throw at it (the network in can also).
It even has a full balanced analogue output if your stereo power amps can take it!
And it can play DSD128 over USB from PC or USB drive.
Oh and its one of the best Blu Ray players in the world.


The last trick is to build your own Ribbon tweeter and Transmission Line tower speakers.
A good build will sound like thousands of pounds of speakers for much less than £1000.
Or go for a much cheaper Ribbon build on stands.
You dont need to be rich to do either, plan ahead and save up.
For the time you will invest using the system, how long it will last and the huge amount of extra enjoyment you will get, its a lot cheaper than a ton of hobbies in the long run.
Build the right speakers and you will stick with them for life, I have.


I use both the above DAC types and they work very well (both use Sabre32 reference DAC chips).
Neither need a pre-amp or the extra cables to connect one.
The Oppo DACs volume control doesnt impact the sound quality which most pre-amp DACs do when playing 24bit media. The Oppos volume is controlled from within the DAC chip itself which is true 32 bit internal operation.
With a 24bit DAC, controlling the volume for 24bit media will noticeably degrade the sound quality unless it has a very high quality analogue volume control built in, or use a quality PC media player.

fyi :)
 
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There is really nothing to compare, like a sportscar or a 4wd truck. If you want to listen to audio and there are others in the room that don't want to hear it, headphones are best. If you want to be able to listen as a group, speakers will be the best choice.
 
Regarding getting speakers for less than you imagine, I agree. You don't HAVE to spend thousands, or tens of thousands on speakers. Hundreds of dollars will get you sound most people would consider "amazing" even on restricted low frequency speakers and bookshelf speakers. Examples would be the B&W 600 series, which I actually have in my bedroom. I had a pair of 602s as my main speakers in college and when I played them loud in my dorm room just about everybody noticed how good they were even if they could not define why they were so good. There are generally good speakers at every price range. Most people won't land on anything remotely good because of lack of interest or research at any price point.

I would say the B&W 600 series is the entry point for really good speakers.$600-$700? The Oppo would be a fine DAC I have heard good things about it. Not ideal but I have heard good things about it.

Regarding digital volume control, I believe JRIVER Media Center addresses this but I have never tried bypassing an analog pre-amp component in my life.
 
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I really like B&W, the last system I specced for someone used B&W floorstanders.
But you can eclipse the quality at the same price by building your own.
It needs some homework though choosing a good kit.

Yep JRiver has a quality volume control, as does Foobar2000.

Read up on the Oppo 105.
Its an incredible DAC!
 
Blackstone said:
Regarding getting speakers for less than you imagine, I agree. You don't HAVE to spend thousands, or tens of thousands on speakers. Hundreds of dollars will get you sound most people would consider "amazing" even on restricted low frequency speakers and bookshelf speakers. Examples would be the B&W 600 series, which I actually have in my bedroom. I had a pair of 602s as my main speakers in college and when I played them loud in my dorm room just about everybody noticed how good they were even if they could not define why they were so good. There are generally good speakers at every price range. Most people won't land on anything remotely good because of lack of interest or research at any price point.

I would say the B&W 600 series is the entry point for really good speakers.$600-$700? The Oppo would be a fine DAC I have heard good things about it. Not ideal but I have heard good things about it.

Regarding digital volume control, I believe JRIVER Media Center addresses this but I have never tried bypassing an analog pre-amp component in my life.
Click to expand...


No, you'd just be very opinionated, just like you are regarding your Grado's and I am about my T1's. For instance, many people would place the entry point for current "really good speakers" as the JBL LSR305's. Which by the way don't need any amplifiers and can cost ~200$ for a pair. However, they might have inherent hiss, which is about their only flaw (depending on your ears). I personally have a pair of Vanatoo T1's, as I mentioned, and they sound quite good as well and are dead silent at 0 volume. Plus they're an all in one package that is DSP corrected, requiring no external amplifier or DAC.

Either way, "sound good" is in the ears of the beholder, so to speak. I won't buy anything that doesn't have objective computer generated measurements showing me why it is superior. My ears and perception are both inherently flawed measuring mechanisms (though again paradoxically they are the only ones that matter...).
 
By the way the Ayre Pono and Ayre Codex are two devices that offer a lot of performance for the buck and get you well into high end sound. Both are combo dac/headphone amps that can act as, I believe, a DAC and in the case of the codex, a DAC and pre-amplifier. But they punch way above their weight.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
No, you'd just be very opinionated, just like you are regarding your Grado's and I am about my T1's. For instance, many people would place the entry point for current "really good speakers" as the JBL LSR305's. Which by the way don't need any amplifiers and can cost ~200$ for a pair. However, they might have inherent hiss, which is about their only flaw (depending on your ears). I personally have a pair of Vanatoo T1's, as I mentioned, and they sound quite good as well and are dead silent at 0 volume. Plus they're an all in one package that is DSP corrected, requiring no external amplifier or DAC.

Either way, "sound good" is in the ears of the beholder, so to speak. I won't buy anything that doesn't have objective computer generated measurements showing me why it is superior. My ears and perception are both inherently flawed measuring mechanisms (though again paradoxically they are the only ones that matter...).
Click to expand...

Of course you are right. I am not saying that $200 speakers can't sound good. There is good equipment at every price range. And yes I am giving an opinion. My dealer's policy is if you can't hear the difference, buy the cheaper one. It is an informed opinion, however, based on decades of experience tinkering with a lot of speakers and associated equipment. I can't speak to the Vanatoos I have not heard them. Ultimately I really don't care what other people listen to but I like to encourage people to seek out separate components. I gave up trying to convert people to audiophiles a long time ago. It is an antisocial hobby in any event. Cheers. :D
 
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