Headphones - audio in game; knowing where your enemy is? (How does a USB Headset work to let you know where what you are hearing is in the gamespace?

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DarkSideA8

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I know how a 5.1 (etc.) audio solution would allow a player to 'know' where an enemy character is through audio cues, but how does that work for headsets?

FWIW - I'm playing Tarkov - a game where the developers have purportedly worked to make the audio experience a core component of the game. I'm using a set of Corsair Void Pro (wired) headphones connected to a USB port.

Overall, sound quality is good, the problem is occasionally trying to figure out whether an enemy is forward left or backward left (of my current in-game orientation). So far, I'm getting the sense of 'someone is near' and 'left' but not much more precision.

I'm wondering if there is some software setting I've left unused due to ignorance that can help me improve this aspect of the experience.

Thanks in advance.
 
From what I have gathered, you need a 5.1/7.1 headphone, some use multiple speakers to simulate the side and rear channels and some us some sort of DSP to vary sound delay to simulate the side and rear. Short of that you're not going to get surround sound from 2 speaker stereo headphone.
 
Wiz33 said:
you need a 5.1/7.1 headphone, some use multiple speakers to simulate the side and rear channels and some us some sort of DSP to vary sound delay to simulate the side and rear. Short of that you're not going to get surround sound from 2 speaker stereo headphone
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See the link above - I think you will find it interesting!
 
DarkSideA8 said:
See the link above - I think you will find it interesting!
Click to expand...

Yea, hardware and software solution. I would go hardware solution as software cannot account for all the different stereo headphones (size, driver type, drive location with the unit). I use Dolby Atmos for headphone and the effect can vary a lot depending on source.
 
There's tricks involving delay and phase that mimics sounds from behind. It's not perfect, but it's good enough to aurally determine location if it was done properly.
 
Look into HRTF. It's a deep rabbit hole but basically: you can simulate, with delay and EQ tricks, the sounds audio makes as it enters our ears and travels around our heads in a way to trick your brain into thinking the sound is actually coming from a specific place in space. A simple example is recording binaural audio with in ear mics and then playing it back in headphones. Games and usb headsets that use this tech mostly utilize an algorithm based on a generalized head/ear shape the may or may not work for everyone, hence the subjectivity of how effective all the products in this market are. The better solutions utilize custom measurement solutions to more closely tailor the HRTF simulation to your specific ears.
 
DoubleTap said:
It depends on the game but in my opinion, just plain stereo is the best.

Having a good headphone amp helps more than I thought it would.
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I agree. A quality set of headphones with a good dac and amp will go a long way.

OP is using a USB headset so the actual digital to analog conversion is happening in the headset itself. He'll have to look at software solutions.

I believe they are marketed as "Dolby 7.1" so Corsair must have some sort of multi-channel spoofing going on within their software processing to achieve that effect.
 
illram said:
Look into HRTF. It's a deep rabbit hole but basically: you can simulate, with delay and EQ tricks, the sounds audio makes as it enters our ears and travels around our heads in a way to trick your brain into thinking the sound is actually coming from a specific place in space. A simple example is recording binaural audio with in ear mics and then playing it back in headphones. Games and usb headsets that use this tech mostly utilize an algorithm based on a generalized head/ear shape the may or may not work for everyone, hence the subjectivity of how effective all the products in this market are. The better solutions utilize custom measurement solutions to more closely tailor the HRTF simulation to your specific ears.
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I have experimented with nearly every "virtual surround sound" scheme since the Aureal A3D card back in the late 90s - that one was actually pretty good but the tech seems to have met the same fate as the "100 mpg carburetors" from the 1970s.

Sometimes you can find a game and a sound card scheme that work together well, but it's difficult and rare - I've never seen a solution that just works great with any game - most of the schemes add some depth or drama to the sound but don't really help you locate enemy players which, lets face it, is the whole point of this. If you just want dramatic sound, use whatever sounds good, but in my opinion, there are only two solutions for good enemy location via sound:

1. Actual, discrete surround sound with multiple speakers. Even with this solution, some games don't support it very well (Apex Legends). Battlefield and Overwatch and Guild Wars 2 are fantastic but surround sound is expensive and a major hassle to run these days.

2. Stereo Headsets - it doesn't seem like you're going to get good positional info and I moved to headphones very reluctantly but I can now say I'm a believer. Sometimes you have to rotate and pan a bit in game to sort of triangulate the direction of the sound and as I've said before - getting a good amp made much more of an improvement that I ever thought possible - the sound is less muddy, more precise and I think that's the part that's often assumed not to matter as much as it seems, to me, to matter.
 
DoubleTap said:
I have experimented with nearly every "virtual surround sound" scheme since the Aureal A3D card back in the late 90s - that one was actually pretty good but the tech seems to have met the same fate as the "100 mpg carburetors" from the 1970s.

Sometimes you can find a game and a sound card scheme that work together well, but it's difficult and rare - I've never seen a solution that just works great with any game - most of the schemes add some depth or drama to the sound but don't really help you locate enemy players which, lets face it, is the whole point of this. If you just want dramatic sound, use whatever sounds good, but in my opinion, there are only two solutions for good enemy location via sound:

1. Actual, discrete surround sound with multiple speakers. Even with this solution, some games don't support it very well (Apex Legends). Battlefield and Overwatch and Guild Wars 2 are fantastic but surround sound is expensive and a major hassle to run these days.

2. Stereo Headsets - it doesn't seem like you're going to get good positional info and I moved to headphones very reluctantly but I can now say I'm a believer. Sometimes you have to rotate and pan a bit in game to sort of triangulate the direction of the sound and as I've said before - getting a good amp made much more of an improvement that I ever thought possible - the sound is less muddy, more precise and I think that's the part that's often assumed not to matter as much as it seems, to me, to matter.
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I too have tried almost every commercially available virtual surround solution and have the total opposite opinion. It's a subjective field given how the science of it works, so I think we both can be "right" because we both hear different things. I can say Super X-Fi and Out of Your Head, which both use calibrated measurements of headphones and headshape/earshape, sound excellent and I very clearly hear rear, front, and side cues in 7.1. No need to know the map, no need to triangulate anything, you just hear it.

Super X-Fi uses pictures of your ears to match up with measurements matching that ear shape. OOYH offers customized solutions based on an in ear recording using the old Smyth A8. Both also utilize headphone calibrations which is important. They work very well. Superior to stereo audio and you will never get the immediate rear and front definition you get with those solutions with stereo headphones and a stereo mix, ever. And you can mix in good gear with these solutions.

I can say other than those, SBX is the best "generic" version to my ears (again, it is different for everyone because of how it works).

Have you heard of the Smyth Realiser A16? Take a look. The updated 16 channel version of the A8. Probably the best solution in this whole field, if you can afford it, as it uses personalized room simulation measurements with in ear mics.
 
illram said:
I too have tried almost every commercially available virtual surround solution and have the total opposite opinion. It's a subjective field given how the science of it works, so I think we both can be "right" because we both hear different things. I can say Super X-Fi and Out of Your Head, which both use calibrated measurements of headphones and headshape/earshape, sound excellent and I very clearly hear rear, front, and side cues in 7.1. No need to know the map, no need to triangulate anything, you just hear it.

Super X-Fi uses pictures of your ears to match up with measurements matching that ear shape. OOYH offers customized solutions based on an in ear recording using the old Smyth A8. Both also utilize headphone calibrations which is important. They work very well. Superior to stereo audio and you will never get the immediate rear and front definition you get with those solutions with stereo headphones and a stereo mix, ever. And you can mix in good gear with these solutions.

I can say other than those, SBX is the best "generic" version to my ears (again, it is different for everyone because of how it works).

Have you heard of the Smyth Realiser A16? Take a look. The updated 16 channel version of the A8. Probably the best solution in this whole field, if you can afford it, as it uses personalized room simulation measurements with in ear mics.
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I have not tried the latest sound blaster tech - if they can do their thing in digital and let me use my Monolith amp, I'm open minded.

What is the ballpark on the Smyth A16? We talking more than $1500?
 
DoubleTap said:
I have not tried the latest sound blaster tech - if they can do their thing in digital and let me use my Monolith amp, I'm open minded.

What is the ballpark on the Smyth A16? We talking more than $1500?
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SBX using either an X7 or G6 indeed works with any amp via line out or any spdif capable dac/amp via optical out. Creative's Super X-Fi is frustratingly more limited but superior in its virtual surround capability. There is no digital line out, you have to double amp with all Super X-Fi products. (I have done that and it was fine but it is not ideal.) But, if you ever have the ability to try one of their Super X-Fi products I would give it a shot just to test it. (Presuming you do the ear calibrations and have a headphone on their list). Since you said other virtual surround products did not work for you I'd be hesitant to recommend you try SBX though as it is the "generic" variety that does not rely on individual calibrations.

The A16 is sadly $4k. I pre-ordered for $1800 after their kickstarter and am STILL waiting for it to arrive. But if you pay them full MSRP they will ship it right away. Kinda sucks, but the lucky few who have one swear by it.
 
illram said:
SBX using either an X7 or G6 indeed works with any amp via line out or any spdif capable dac/amp via optical out. Creative's Super X-Fi is frustratingly more limited but superior in its virtual surround capability. There is no digital line out, you have to double amp with all Super X-Fi products. (I have done that and it was fine but it is not ideal.) But, if you ever have the ability to try one of their Super X-Fi products I would give it a shot just to test it. (Presuming you do the ear calibrations and have a headphone on their list). Since you said other virtual surround products did not work for you I'd be hesitant to recommend you try SBX though as it is the "generic" variety that does not rely on individual calibrations.

The A16 is sadly $4k. I pre-ordered for $1800 after their kickstarter and am STILL waiting for it to arrive. But if you pay them full MSRP they will ship it right away. Kinda sucks, but the lucky few who have one swear by it.
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I saw a kickstarter or pre-order that said I think $1450 so I thought it would be around $2k or so. Since I would only use it for gaming and I'm pretty thrilled with my $500 amp, I can't imagine being 8X as happy or even twice as happy with it but if I ever found a good deal on one, I might give it a try. Thanks
 
Another one for higher quality Stereo headsets, forget all this gimmick crap that nmight work but mostly doesnt. my Sen HD598's are awesome for any game, even CS:Go to pin point someone around a corner and lay them out before they can crap their pants.
 
Anyone use the Razer software surround? I've heard it's very effective.
 
Honestly the less software touching my audio the happier i am. Playing with my dt-880s on my schiit hel and loving it for gaming.
 
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The biggest limitation to headphone listening is the mismatch between the audio direction and head direction. The brain relies on really small cues of micro head movements when determining the direction of sounds and if you turn your head without the sound moving logically with it, the brain stops 'believing' that the sound comes from the direction it otherwise would be perceived to come from. That's why when you listen with headphones, you don't hear the sound coming from in front of you, it's "in your head". Low latency head tracking can overcome this problem and give you an illusion of stereo image, but the systems are rare and expensive. Luckily for games, the rear and side sounds are more readily faked by phase and delay. And that effect is achievable by regular stereo. If you own flat panel speakers, you'll realize that you get 100% surround effect with just stereo speakers if you sit in the dead center.
 
Well. Entry level for this imo is the akg 702 and the creative ae-5 plus. The new sabre dac model. Not the one from 2017 or whatever. I can attest that this really gives you a good feeling of space and distance. You hear enemies in an accurate way. If they are above you to the left that's what you hear. Obviously, not enough people have experienced this though. I have been trying to sell my combo for a few weeks now. My speakers work better as they should. Being 6x the price.
 
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A huge part of this is just map awareness. Way back in the day when this all first kicked off with the original Quakes/Doom if you know where each pickup is you can track people around the map as much as what you hear by where you hear it.

There's three things you need really. Sound resolution of details, sound position, and sound stage. If the game supports it and your hardware does there's dolby headphones which will go a long way. But a high end set of cans and good dac/amp will get you amazing sound resolution and the position on steroe will work just fine. Also closed back vs open back headphones are also a factor here.

I've got Steelseries Pro + GameDAC on one box and it does sound glorious if everything works and supports DOLBY and blah blah, schiit fulla + sennheiser open backs on the other box just work with everything and don't have issues.
 
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