HDTV as a PC Display - I've finally found one!

KVW

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
325
For those of you who like to use HDTV as a PC display, ya'll are probably familiar with the fact that you are usually paying a price for that big screen goodness:

- huge dot pitch (kind of expected)
- unclear text and windows GUI (video processing you can't turn off)
- greatly increased input lag (this is the worst compromise, especially todays' HDTV - they've gotten so bad!)

well around October of last year i finally got the itch to replace my aging old olivia HDTV I was using as a PC display i bought sometime back in 05 or 06 (at that god forsaken unsupported 1366x768) . Especially after upgrading the PC finally and got the thirst for higher resolutions. ;) Well since then I've purchased and return god knows how many HDTVs (i've long since lost count) as I was never satisfied with their input lag or PQ or both. Well except for one, the 32lz800 which now belongs to my GF as a gift (long story). :eek: But just last night on a whim I decided to pick up an LG 37LH30. I'm so happy with it that I felt the need to share it with ya'll cuz I know there some other big screen gamers out there. :cool:

Read my review here: 37LH30

The cliff notes (why I'm even bother showing you):
- Acts like a giant display with clear text and windows GUI
- Very Low input lag for an HDTV
- Great video PQ

:)
 
Four MUSTs for a universal PC monitor:
#1. Photographic quality picture with no issues (lack of color accuracy (dE), incorrect gamma curve, lack of calibratability, no color management, presence of color shifting, washouts, large pixels, etc.).
#2. At least two digital inputs with 1080p support (to provide a quality connection with PC and an external device simultaneously).
#3. Capability to reduce eye strain (ergonomics, autobrightness and range of brightness controls, legible dot pitch, etc.).
#4. Responsiveness is suitable for multimedia use.

TVs do not pass #1 and #3. Being a primary PC monitor is out of the question for TV sets.
They are expected to be capable of #2 an #4 only - that means just an entertainment screen.
 
Yah, that's all great and dandy, but if you haven't tried PC gaming on a 37-40 inch screen yet, then you do NOT know what you're missing. Hands down waaaay more immersive when the screen is that big.

And certain HDTVs aren't that bad, there are those who even do CAD work on samsungs as noted by some members on AVS forums. Furthermore you can turn down the backlight to comfortable levels.

Again, until you've tried playing something like Crysis on a 40", you do NOT know what you are even missing. Going back to a 24 or 25.5" is a huge dissappointment. I feel sorry for those that spend top dollar on a gaming rig and play on a puny 24" screen.
 
Yah, that's all great and dandy, but if you haven't tried PC gaming on a 37-40 inch screen yet, then you do NOT know what you're missing. Hands down waaaay more immersive when the screen is that big.

And certain HDTVs aren't that bad, there are those who even do CAD work on samsungs as noted by some members on AVS forums. Furthermore you can turn down the backlight to comfortable levels.

Again, until you've tried playing something like Crysis on a 40", you do NOT know what you are even missing. Going back to a 24 or 25.5" is a huge dissappointment. I feel sorry for those that spend top dollar on a gaming rig and play on a puny 24" screen.

Enjoy the TV and thanks for the info. I used to use my 37" LG 37LB5D as a monitor, and other than input lag, it was excellent. I still use it with my HTPC, and after calibration, still provides a good picture.

And yes, you're right, once you go to that size (32" or 37") it is very difficult to find as immersive a gaming experience.

My only question with this screen, is LG still using IPS panels?

haha and i thought a 20" was big

I once did a "clone" of the 37" with the 20" and it was like night and day. It wasn't even close in regards to how enthralling it was on the TeeVee.
 
Interesting, I went through a bunch last year and finally had to get a 24" PC monitor due to the "HDTV as monitor" issues. I don't see the 37" at Best Buy, but they have the 32" and they show it as a 120hz screen....

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9244668&type=product&id=1218066285003

...I wonder if it's actually an IPS panel or if they bought a bunch more Sharp ASV panels.


EDIT: Quote from the LG page....

TruMotion 120Hz
You can see clearly now! By responding quickly to color changes, TruMotion technology combined with LG's unique IPS panels, virtually eliminates motion blur and improves picture quality at different viewing angles.

My only remaining question would be the black levels and uniformity concerns.
 
I bought a Panasonic 42" 1080p plasma 42PZ80B (100/120Hz internal) last year for PC/TV use and it is truly awesome, I couldnt ask for more (except making it 120" :D).
I cannot recommend using one for PC "only" though as it will slowly burn in without video/films being displayed to even the wear out.
So mine gets used approx 50% PC (gaming, films, some web browsing) and the other 50% for TV.
No problem with burn in and I am playing/have played many long RPGs, running over 12 hours some sessions :)
There is usually some very light Image Retention (not burn in as IR isnt permanent) after a long session but it is gone after 1/2hr of TV and I never see it unless I look for it hard.
I use another display for the PC when the TV is in use.
I wouldnt use a Plasma for WoW or EVE as that might be a bit much but with all the abuse I have thrown at it, its still like brand new after 11 months.
One of my best purchases ever :)

If this fits your usage pattern a decent plasma is a great choice, the PQ is top notch for every use including sports.
 
Yah, that's all great and dandy, but if you haven't tried PC gaming on a 37-40 inch screen yet, then you do NOT know what you're missing. Hands down waaaay more immersive when the screen is that big.

And certain HDTVs aren't that bad, there are those who even do CAD work on samsungs as noted by some members on AVS forums. Furthermore you can turn down the backlight to comfortable levels.

Again, until you've tried playing something like Crysis on a 40", you do NOT know what you are even missing. Going back to a 24 or 25.5" is a huge dissappointment. I feel sorry for those that spend top dollar on a gaming rig and play on a puny 24" screen.

Oh my god! And after hours of research I thought I was upgrading big time from and old 20" CRT to a 25.5 LCD :eek:
 
Interesting, I went through a bunch last year and finally had to get a 24" PC monitor due to the "HDTV as monitor" issues. I don't see the 37" at Best Buy, but they have the 32" and they show it as a 120hz screen....

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9244668&type=product&id=1218066285003

...I wonder if it's actually an IPS panel or if they bought a bunch more Sharp ASV panels.


EDIT: Quote from the LG page....



My only remaining question would be the black levels and uniformity concerns.


Btw this is the 37LH30, not the 40. The 40 adds 120hz and frame interpolation to combat judder and blur. It's been my experience that these higher end HDTVs with 120 or 240hz ADDS input lag even in their respective "game modes". Now I don't know how well LG's LH40 performs input lag wise but they didn't even have any 37LH40s at the BB where I bought my LH30 from. These panels JUST came out so they're hard to find at the moment. And BB hasn't even updated their webpage apparently.

I don't think it's a sharp panel either as they've been known to display windows text poorly with their split pixel tech. As I write this, I can't express enough how crisp the text is. :) It may very well be an IPS, when I look at this forum off angle, it doesn't wash out as bad but if i stand above the panel it does wash out so maybe it's a VPA? How they got a vpa panel to be so quick, i dunno but I'm loving it right now. :cool:

BB has a great return policy, I'd recommend anyone who's interested in big screen gaming/web browsing to at least rent one and see if you like it. you can always just return it so i don't see any risk in it. In this case, it looks as though I've FINALLY found a keeper. :)
 
Oh my god! And after hours of research I thought I was upgrading big time from and old 20" CRT to a 25.5 LCD :eek:

My 25.5" has been a secondary monitor for me for a looong time. Time to upgrade my friend. ;)
 
My 25.5" has been a secondary monitor for me for a looong time. Time to upgrade my friend. ;)

I haven't even got the 25.5 yet and I am ready to toss it out the second floor window when it gets here after reading this thread!

I better tell the wife it is back to Top Ramen like the old days for a bit.
 
I haven't even got the 25.5 yet and I am ready to toss it out the second floor window when it gets here after reading this thread!

I better tell the wife it is back to Top Ramen like the old days for a bit.

LOL! She's gunna looove that. :D

Don't throw out that 25.5" inch. It makes for a great secondary panel to display all your cpu/gpu core temps, voltage loads, game cheats etc while playing a full screen game on the big dawg screen. ;) Nvidia allows you to run SLI on dual screen now. You'll have to install vista though.
 
Samsung A550 and higher series' have a PC mode that disables all video processing and color controls that arent needed. the DPI is still relatively high but there's no noticeable input lag and has full calibration for any color controls possible. if you need photo realism, you can get these panels pretty damned accurate with a hardware calibrator. the blacks are only so good though and are probably the worst aspect. if you turn Sharpness down to 0 there shouldnt be any blurriness at all.

nothing beats a medium rez on such a huge display tho...makes gaming so much better than a 30" monitor @ 2560. ive used both and it's much more immersive.
 
Samsung A550 and higher series' have a PC mode that disables all video processing and color controls that arent needed. the DPI is still relatively high but there's no noticeable input lag and has full calibration for any color controls possible. if you need photo realism, you can get these panels pretty damned accurate with a hardware calibrator. the blacks are only so good though and are probably the worst aspect. if you turn Sharpness down to 0 there shouldnt be any blurriness at all.

nothing beats a medium rez on such a huge display tho...makes gaming so much better than a 30" monitor @ 2560. ive used both and it's much more immersive.

Exactly. :cool:

A good example to help explain it is, in the beginning of Crysis, when you jump out of the plane and see both your hands out in front of you: On my 25.5 inch, they look like little baby hands - totally takes away from the realism and immersiveness. But on a Samsung 40" A650 or this 37" LG, it looks much closer to what your hands SHOULD look like. And the ground below you and the sky all around, it fully encompass your field of vision.

It's sort of like going to one of those immersion IMAX show where they put you in a first person perspective going down a raging river. Your completely stationary but you get the sensation of movement because the screen is so damn big!

And like you said, 1920x1080p is totally doable by most gaming rigs today - far easier to produce good framerate than the next resolution up on the smaller 30" PC displays @2560. Much less expensive too! They want 1400 bucks for those displays, even worse, the apple 30" displays are over 2 large!
 
WTF is that dead animal your keyboard is sitting on. Seriously just a little overkill on the wrist rest.
 
WTF is that dead animal your keyboard is sitting on. Seriously just a little overkill on the wrist rest.

:eek:

LOL it's just a folded blanket. :D

I dunno after gaming for a few hours i found the bottom of my forarms would hurt (the skin would stick to the vinyl cover on the table). I guess i'm a puss. :p
 
So I just found out that there is a way to calibrate individual colors on this display so the one major flaw isn't a flaw at all. This screen is just awesome. :D I've edited the original post on AVS forum.
 
:eek: Uhhh-Ohhh........it's starting agian....... there...........there.....there is one those LG thingies about 3 miles from my house at the Best Buy store........
 
:eek: Uhhh-Ohhh........it's starting agian....... there...........there.....there is one those LG thingies about 3 miles from my house at the Best Buy store........

Do it. You won't be disappointed.

Just got through watching Kung Fu Panda via PowerDVD. Excuse the giddyness but... I'm totally and completely satisified with this purchase. Black levels are not Samsung B series black but more like 08 Sony Z series level (just like the 40z4100 I tested which is good). The picture had plenty of pop giving that 3d feeling, colors are accurate, motion handling one of the BEST i've seen for a 60hz only topped by a B650's revised AMP.

But the best part is: No fussing with modes or changing settings for different applications like for movies, games, or web browsing. Just one mode for all yeilding a great picture quality without black crush, blurry text, or heavy input lag.

... I'm simply in love with this set. After purchasing returning around 15 LCD displays over the past 4 months. I never throught I'd say that. :)
 
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LG used to use nothing but IPS in their 32"+ product line, until last year when they bought several million 32" and 47" Sharp ASV panels. I bought a 32LG70 last year thinking I was getting an IPS, but it was clearly a ASV, not as bad as the Samsung PVAs, but still VA based (it went back of course).
 
Samsung A550 and higher series' have a PC mode that disables all video processing and color controls that arent needed. the DPI is still relatively high but there's no noticeable input lag and has full calibration for any color controls possible.


I completely agree.

I purchased a Samsung LN-32A650 a few months ago and have been using the PC mode which has dramatically improved the sharpness of text and image quality with my PC.

Last night I decided to give my X-rite i1 Display2 calibrator a try with the Samsung and was amazed at how accurate I was able to get with the settings considering this is a HDTV. This was also using the “advanced” calibration not the “easy” option.

I mainly bought this HDTV for my racing sims and with a Logitech G25 (wheel, clutch and 6-speed shifter)/racing seat sitting in front of it, the immersion factor is addicting.
 
I can't think of any. Glossy screens are usually reserved for the higher end displays.

Btw. I just got the 42" version of this display. It was only 100 bucks more and the extra 5 inches makes an even greater impact in the immersion. Tested the lag and it's the same. The screen is just as beautiful as the 37 and also has no clouding, no flashlighting, or stuck or dead pixels. That's some good quality control from LG. I'm seriously in love with this set.

I'll be returning the 37 tomorrow. If I have time this weekend, I'll rent a LH40 and test it's lag as well.
 
KVW...your an animal on this research! Loving it! I was also wondering if the larger ones would work. But I thought you had concerns aboout the 120 hertz creating lag. I am liking the bigger and better idea though. What video card set up would be required to run this large of a display (40"-42") adequately for FPS & Racing games? Can it be done with one ATI HD4870? Holdin' the horse back for now............
 
What video card set up would be required to run this large of a display (40"-42") adequately for FPS & Racing games? Can it be done with one ATI HD4870? Holdin' the horse back for now............

Why would the size of the HDTV's screen have anything to do with how well the video card can handle it?

The highest resolution any HDTV whether it be a 32” or a 52” is going to be 1080P (1920x1080).
 
I use a Samsung 40 inch A650 and its fantastic as a PC monitor , I play all my PC games on it , watch U-verse TV on it , play my 360/PS3 and it works fantastic for everything I've thrown at it.

Its got a 4ms response time and the dot pitch is no issue at all , no input lag (that I can notice and I'm picky about it) in PC mode and it has a fantastic pixel mapper/scaler that works with every resolution i've thrown at it from 640x480 to 1920x1080. Its a PVA panel so no crappy TN colors to deal with , uniform backlight , TONS of adjustments through the menu , 178/178 viewing angles.

I couldn't be happier , the only downside is the cost .. when I bought it was around 1500 bucks. I'm sure its much cheaper now and if you can get one I would recommend it.
 
Why would the size of the HDTV's screen have anything to do with how well the video card can handle it?

The highest resolution any HDTV whether it be a 32” or a 52” is going to be 1080P (1920x1080).

Indeed - they're all just 1920x1080. Provided you have a decent CPU, that video card should be more than sufficient to run most games at a very good fps at that resolution. The only game my system struggles to maintain a consistent fps at that resolution is Crysis on Very High. I think you'll have a blast and should definitely get the 42" LH30.

And yes I am concerned the LH40 will lag more. This weekend I'll see if I can find a Best Buy that has an 42" LH40, purchase it, run head to head tests against this 42" LH30 and find out if 120hz and motions moothing adds an unacceptable amount of input lag or not. I'll then make my final decision whether to make this LH30 my keeper or the LH40.

I already suspect the LH40 is slower though: Chuny on AVS snapped some input lag pics of his LH40 and it lagged 50-60ms more than his computer LCD. However it's not a good comparison against my measurements as we don't know how fast his 22" compares to my 25". Until then, I'm enjoying THE HELL out of this LG screen. :D
 
There's no way I could sit that close to a TV that big. Even my 22" monitor I sit about 1m from when doing general computing, and 2+ metres from it when watching TV on it via my TV card.

It'd be awesome for racing sims though (which I play a lot). Sitting in the cockpit camera view with a decent viewing angle would be sweet. But for general computing and any game other than race sims I think it'd give me a permanent headache.

It'd be nice to do CAD on a big screen, but again I think I'd get a headache after doing 7 hours of CAD in a day sitting that close to a screen that big.
 
I'm using a 37" 1080p Sceptre brand LCD as a computer monitor. It took a little getting used to (I always get headaches when I switch to a new monitor of any size) but I love it. Its great for games.
 
Samsung A550 and higher series' have a PC mode that disables all video processing and color controls that arent needed. the DPI is still relatively high but there's no noticeable input lag and has full calibration for any color controls possible. if you need photo realism, you can get these panels pretty damned accurate with a hardware calibrator. the blacks are only so good though and are probably the worst aspect. if you turn Sharpness down to 0 there shouldnt be any blurriness at all.

nothing beats a medium rez on such a huge display tho...makes gaming so much better than a 30" monitor @ 2560. ive used both and it's much more immersive.

I had a 550, I didn't enjoy it, there was far too much noticeable lag on the screen. I had to chose between 32 Z800 and a 30" Dell ,I went with the dell and I <3 it :)

Enjoy your TV/Monitor ^^

Exactly. :cool:

A good example to help explain it is, in the beginning of Crysis, when you jump out of the plane and see both your hands out in front of you: On my 25.5 inch, they look like little baby hands - totally takes away from the realism and immersiveness. But on a Samsung 40" A650 or this 37" LG, it looks much closer to what your hands SHOULD look like. And the ground below you and the sky all around, it fully encompass your field of vision.

It's sort of like going to one of those immersion IMAX show where they put you in a first person perspective going down a raging river. Your completely stationary but you get the sensation of movement because the screen is so damn big!

And like you said, 1920x1080p is totally doable by most gaming rigs today - far easier to produce good framerate than the next resolution up on the smaller 30" PC displays @2560. Much less expensive too! They want 1400 bucks for those displays, even worse, the apple 30" displays are over 2 large!
 
Why would the size of the HDTV's screen have anything to do with how well the video card can handle it?

The highest resolution any HDTV whether it be a 32” or a 52” is going to be 1080P (1920x1080).

There you have it! I guess it is not a problem and that is what I wanted to know. Thank you.
 
Indeed - they're all just 1920x1080. Provided you have a decent CPU, that video card should be more than sufficient to run most games at a very good fps at that resolution. The only game my system struggles to maintain a consistent fps at that resolution is Crysis on Very High. I think you'll have a blast and should definitely get the 42" LH30.

And yes I am concerned the LH40 will lag more. This weekend I'll see if I can find a Best Buy that has an 42" LH40, purchase it, run head to head tests against this 42" LH30 and find out if 120hz and motions moothing adds an unacceptable amount of input lag or not. I'll then make my final decision whether to make this LH30 my keeper or the LH40.

I already suspect the LH40 is slower though: Chuny on AVS snapped some input lag pics of his LH40 and it lagged 50-60ms more than his computer LCD. However it's not a good comparison against my measurements as we don't know how fast his 22" compares to my 25". Until then, I'm enjoying THE HELL out of this LG screen. :D

So it looks as though an LH40 is about 1 frame slower than the LH30. The question is, does the LH40's features make up for the added input lag. Mind you even the LH40's added input lag is better than just about every other HDTV out there. It puts it at the same speed as an A series Samsung using HDMI2 labeled "PC".
 
WoW, are you guys joking? I've had an HDTV as a gaming screen since 2006. I can't believe you people didn't know you could use HDTV's as computer monitors! Oh, and DigitalViperX, you must've been doing something wrong. That screen is fantastic as a PC screen! At least my 650 is!

EDIT: My Samsung eats all those screens up, but beware of DX10 gaming!
 
WoW, are you guys joking? I've had an HDTV as a gaming screen since 2006. I can't believe you people didn't know you could use HDTV's as computer monitors! Oh, and DigitalViperX, you must've been doing something wrong. That screen is fantastic as a PC screen! At least my 650 is!

EDIT: My Samsung eats all those screens up, but beware of DX10 gaming!

Before commenting, its good to read what has been posted already :rolleyes:
Especially if you like to spout off.
 
WoW, are you guys joking? I've had an HDTV as a gaming screen since 2006. I can't believe you people didn't know you could use HDTV's as computer monitors! Oh, and DigitalViperX, you must've been doing something wrong. That screen is fantastic as a PC screen! At least my 650 is!

EDIT: My Samsung eats all those screens up, but beware of DX10 gaming!

way to make yourself sound like an ass.
 
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