HDR's Promise Is Stunted by Reluctant Developer Support

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    PC Gamer spoke with game developers and hardware manufacturers about the emerging color standard: one thing pointed out is that HDR is actually pretty easy to implement, assuming the proper plans are in place early in development. But while rendering may be trivial, the decision to adopt it is much more complicated, especially when you’re an indie dev where cost/benefit is paramount.

    The motivation to work with HDR in mind from a game’s pre-production onward will increase as adoption numbers grow and we all sit, ready and salivating, before our HDR-ready monitors. But while triple-A studios like Eidos Montréal and the Sega-backed Amplitude will always be in a position to contemplate new fidelity standards, the conversation must be slightly different for smaller indie teams and one-person studios. Sure, the commercial game engines support HDR output, but can developers working to tight budgets afford the human and resource-based costs Raulin mentioned?
     
  2. jnemesh

    jnemesh Limp Gawd

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    Didn't we hear the same argument about moving to high definition? My thoughts: Deal with it. Make the best game you can with the budget you have, and the rest will sort itself out. My guess is that HDR is here to stay, and most games will be supporting it. If you find your game isn't getting rave reviews because it's lacking HDR, then adopt it...until then, keep calm and carry on coding.
     
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  3. kju1

    kju1 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I always found it pretty amusing (and somewhat trite) when I see adverts that claim how much better looking X is to Y when they are showing it to me on Y. It makes me wonder if they think I am an idiot and dont know that my device cant do X and therefore their image is manipulated. See other thread about science and retractions ;)
     
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  4. Domingo

    Domingo [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There are games out there that absolutely DO use it and gain little from it. In some cases it's jarring because we're used to mostly bright reds and deep blues all of the time. With HDR you get a larger color gamut and brighter light effects, but only certain objects showcase the massive/bright/powerful colors we've been told to expect.

    Just Google "[insert HDR game] looks washed out on [insert PS4 Pro or Xbox One S]" and you'll see tons and tons of postings. People aren't sure what to expect from HDR and the in-store demos where everything looks neon and blasted with contrast aren't helping.
     
  5. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And HDR games still add massive input lag thanks to the constant processing of pixels and LUTs from one frame to the next.

    It's not really ready for prime-time today, which is why it's still mostly in TVs.

    We need another 3-4 years of advancements in ASIC efficiency, or widespread adoption of tech like Freesync 2 (probably the same thing).
     
  6. xorbe

    xorbe [H]ardness Supreme

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    HDR is an image acquisition technique, not an image display technology ... processing images is just contrast and brightness and gamma and saturation ...
     
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  7. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    All you need to do is go to your favorite game's forums and make a very nicely worded thread asking for HDR support. If enough other people respond the developer has to take note of the need to add support for HDR to their titles.
     
  8. theBrownLlama

    theBrownLlama [H]Lite

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    HDR or not, it does not help that the preferred color and texture palette for these new AAA+ games is still muddy and ugly.
     
  9. Anarchist4000

    Anarchist4000 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hopefully we see a new range of engines and updates around DX12/Vulkan bringing HDR along with it. I can't recall any recent games talking up a new engine besides Doom. Normally there is something with impressive visuals: Oblivion, Crisis, Far Cry, etc. Even major versions of Unity, Unreal, CryEngine.
     
  10. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    As it is now it is rather simple to few games to make a difference. I watched this video before I ploughed through the article:



    It is going the way of check mark technology, box checked , done.

    And there are a few developers which can spend enough time but that does not mean that HDR displayed the same for all monitors it is still bound by the monitor(s) limits
     
  11. jnemesh

    jnemesh Limp Gawd

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    Play "Horizon: Zero Dawn" on a PS4 Pro with a Samsung QLED (or SUHD) set. It DOES make a significant difference! Whether people in internet forums will admit it or not...
     
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  12. Living Weapon

    Living Weapon Limp Gawd

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    cinematics have banding - step one, make that go away

    beyond that - go outside. wow, that's some dynamic range. now look at a Waterhouse painting. then work on the game - you're welcome
     
  13. xorbe

    xorbe [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just look at the example 3 posts up. Anyone that's done any editing knows that the HDR OFF image was 'shopped from a source, and is not the original. It was purposefully brightened beyond belief.

    And the HDR image is anything but. HDR contrast locality vs image wide. If anything, the HDR OFF image is a better HDR example of the uniform. HDR often has a surreal look because various objects in the scene don't have proper relativity as each is adjusted independently.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  14. Domingo

    Domingo [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I have a Sammy but not that game (yet). The new Uncharted Lost Legacy looks good, but it still suffers from expectations of certain colors not "popping" like we're used to. Things like neon signs and especially the sky look amazing while normal reds and blues look more dull than with HDR turned off. They probably look more realistic, but the contrast is much lower even with the TV's contrast cranked to 100.
     
  15. jnemesh

    jnemesh Limp Gawd

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    Well, the 1st thing you have to do is setup your set's contrast and brightness properly. If you are relying on "out of the box" settings, the games will look pretty bad...