HDMI 2.0a & HDCP 2.2 Madness

Discussion in 'Home Theater PCs & Equipment' started by AORUS, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    The crazy world we live in.
    It was said that with New Pioneer UHD player for the PC if you want to watch 4k UHD movies you Must need HDMI 2.0a (For HDR) & HDCP 2.2 on both UHD player & TV/Monitor to enjoy 4K UHD & HDR playback if you don't have this your playback is in HD, I also read that on many manufactures websites this year It is also said that 4K UHD players also need the above to work !

    But HDMI 1.4 was released on May 28, 2009 & HDMI 1.4a was released on March 4, 2010 so it took them just one year? but to reach HDMI 2.0a was released on April 8, 2015 so it took 5 years? also HDMI 2.1 was officially announced by the HDMI Forum on January 4, 2017 only year! so to my point why did all the computer companies place orders for HDMI1.4 in computers TV/Monitors & MB that was sold just two years ago when is 2015 HDMI2.0a was ready out?:mad:

    Another Lie IMO the manufactures are releasing the HDMI2.0a has something new but in fact HDMI2.1 is new came out last year with the doubles the signaling rate of the data with Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (48G Cable) – 4K, 5K, 8K and 10K at 120 Hz is enough for 8K resolution at approximately 50 Hz over and we have been told the HDMI2.0a just came to the market this year 2018?


    The first HDCP 1.0 as a "Digital Output Protection Technology" was release on Feb 17, 2000 for DVI, 1.1 took 3 years in the making and was release on Jun 9, 2003 DVI,HDMI, and 1.2 took another three years and but only one year for 1.3 Dec 21, 2006, HDMI, DP, and so on. On August 4, 2004 it was not until Oct 16, 2012 HDCP 2.2 came out and we are to are today been told in the reviews online in 2018 that it's new HDCP 2.2?:eek:When connecting a HDCP 2.2 source device through compatible distribution to a video wall made of multiple legacy displays the ability to display an image can not be guaranteed. Your computer is not yours anymore because of HDCP is meant to avoid direct copying of content, and such devices could conceivably do exactly that.

    I am been lied to many time what is the real truth? of 4K Because a 4K player can play 4k movies on a TV/monitor with the old HDMI1.4 but only @24/30fps with no HDR, and we all know and have been told HDCP 2.2 is not backward compatible to HDCP 1.4 most TV/Monitors today don't have the HDMI2.0a/HDCP2.2 also some motherboards don't have them yet? manufactures been lazy

    But here is a question if you look at the Aorus GTX 1080 TI it has HDMI 2.0 & HDCP 2.2, also 1.4DP@60hz if you look in your NVidia settings it stats your graphic card and monitor is HDCP compatible but don't give you the version number 1.4/2.2. So how do a Pioneer UHD player that is contacted to a Sata port in your computer know your monitor is not HDCP 2.2? or HDMI 2.0a?? when your graphic card is contacted with the Monitor DP only!! and not with HDMI do you still loose out?


    But I found there is way around the HDMI 2.0a & HDCP 2.2 Madness a few online companies have made a Converter HDCP 2.2 to HDCP 1.4 that tricks the Monitor/TV in believing it's a HDCP 2.2 and still play 4K UHD movies with a UHD player @24/30fps and who cares it's not (HDR);)@50/60fps is it worth the extra £/$?:) when 6k, 7k, is coming out next or are they going to slow down the market again?

    And wait another 5 years in making:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  2. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    HDMI 1.4 cannot do 4K at 60Hz without dropping colour quality.
    So there were no 4K PC displays (monitors you stated) released with HDMI 1.4 only.
    TVs are not PC displays so early versions will exist with max 30Hz @4K to keep the price down.
    Dont expect these to follow all the standards.
    Such is life.

    Communication is via compatible OS, drivers and software.
    DP is HDCP compliant but can take a bit longer to get updates.
    Its a pita running a 4K BR player on PC.
    I decided not to do it and is one reason why my move to 4K has been delayed, serves them right.
    You can get external 4K players which are the better option.
    But this can present further problems as many displays only have 1 HDMI 2.0 port with up to date HDCP so you cant plug your PC and 4K BD player in and get 4K on both.

    Its still early days in many ways to get highest quality 4K movie playback hardware with enough features.
    Many things on sale will need replacing in a few years to keep up.
    Best to bite the bullet and get an external player if you must have it now.
    Or save your cash and wait.
    If you gotta have it you gotta pay.

    I'm glad I stuck with 1080p. Although 4K projectors are looking tastier this year.
    If the new Optomas had near 30mS lag I would have bought one.
    Right now I dont want any 4K equipment.
     
  3. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    I just wasted 20 minutes reading a pointless post.

    The industry had the exact same issue as UHD Blu-Ray. when the original Blu-Ray was released. CRT monitors were completely screwed, and the number of PC LCD monitors with HDCP was a big fat zero. Then the industry caught-up, and the complainers stopped complaining.

    There will probably never be a newer specification for "higher than 4k." movies on disc. The tech itself is tapped-out. They added a third layer, and increased storage capacity by 33% per-layer, and I think they're running the disc at 2x Blu-Ray speeds. You could add more layers but that would increase costs, and require the disc to run at higher rotational speeds. Quadruple the rotational speed would put it at 8x Blu-Ray, which would be nearly impossible for continuous speed.

    Blue is the smallest wavelength LED you can currently buy for cheap, and UV is still fairly expensive, so there's no way to increase the storage density much further.

    And 8k streaming won't be possible until we pass the several-hundred-Mbps download speed on at least a quarter of connections or we invent the next two generations of new video codec TOMORROW. Not happening within the next ten years :D

    And, the potential market for UHD is falling (compared to Blu-Ray's fast uptake), all because the improvements in image quality are mostly due to the HDR. 1080p is good-enough for most televisions, so it will be a hard-enough sell transitioning the content industry to 4k.

    And since there will not be a new UHD standard anytime soon, you have all the fucking time in the world to wait for UHD standards to get worked-out and drop in price :D

    And the reason why there are still higher resolutions for shit like HDMI should be fairly clear: even if TVs don't benefit from higher resolutions, content creators and PC gamers certainly would. And since DVI died, HDMI has to do double-duty, and keep improving connection speeds for PC.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  4. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    If you look at the Acer Predator xb321hk it has a HMDI 1.4 only and yes it can run 4k movies on 1.4 but at only 24/30, on a 4K UHD player not 50/60 that needs a HDMI 2.0/2.0a

    I think this was just a big con IMO from the start making the public think they was getting a 4k TV/ monitor at a bargain price knowing too well it only have a 1.4 HDMI to cut down the price yes I blame the Media and online reviews & manufactures for putting false information out in the pass two years knowing full well they will change it with a HDMI2.0a that came out in 2015 but held it back from the public for three years.

    This is why PC 4K playback is so far behind & way too expensive its clear they do not want 4K on PC anytime soon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  5. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    In your opinion?

    Yes I was making rant about how I was shocked that the lazy manufactures trick everyone with the HDMI 1.4 just to cut down the price just like the Acer Predator xb321hk with a HDMI 1.4 price at $899.99 I wouldn't call that cheap for 4k would you!!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
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  6. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    Yeah, HDMI has been perpetually broken on PC monitors. First there were 1440p monitors with HDMI 1.0 inputs, well after the 1.4 standard had been widely-released. And now we see half-assed HDMI 1.4 on 4k monitors.

    Whining isn't going to change shit, because HDMI will always be a second-class citizen ion PC.. Get a monitor with multiple DP inputs, just to be sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  7. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    Here is a madness question.

    My GTX 1080 ti card is HDCP2.2 on DP1.2 and is not backward compatible to HDCP 1.4 so if my Acer monitor is only a HDCP1.4 that can be right? So it must be a 2.2!! but on some reviews it's only a HDCP 1.4 I am confuse.

    So if my monitor is 2.2 I don't need the Converter right? because on my computer NVidia control panel it say "This display supports HDCP" on DP1.2
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  8. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    True.

    I am using my GTX 1080 ti on a DP1.2@60 for games with the display but I need a HDMI for the Samsung 4K UHD player to use when I buy next month because Blu-ray disks look much better on a 4k monitor then a 1080p TV but because I have only one HDMI 1.4 port & one DP port on my 4k monitor
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  9. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    And that's intentional. They break the HDMI inputs so you'll be more likely to buy a dedicated TV.

    It might also be they half-assed the HDMI because GSYNC doesn't work over it? I guess they figure they don't need full-spec on a port nobody will use?

    Your monitor was still early-on in the 4k game (early 2016), so it didn't get HDMI 2.0. But this LG released just a few months ago gets two HDMI 2.0 ports.

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824025172

    So like I said, the PC Monitor industry will eventually move-on, it just takes a little while.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  10. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    But HDMI 2.0a was released on April 8, 2015 as you know and Acer should have install it at the time but they didn't, never buy Acer again

    Last year in June 2017 I built my new computer for 4K gaming so I was looking for a 4k monitor to play games on and later buy a 4k UHD player, I was told but didn't take note just to buy a 4K TV UHD but I got too much involved by reading the 'BS' about tearing screen & losing the FPS in games and 8ms is slow but in fact it's not that's why I got this Acer 32" 4K G-sync monitor but now I want to buy a UHD player for it now am running into problems with the HDMI & HDCP but only after reading the information above I learned allot, and yes it was my fault I did see the LG 43" 4k UHD Monitor that came out in May 2017 it was in the shop it had 2x HDMI 1..4 & 2x HDMI 2.0 and one DisplayPort 1.2@60hz also HDCP 2.2 price £749.99 GBP but at the time I didn't learn about the HDCP part only was told.

    My Acer 32" G-sync DP1.2 HDMI 1.4 HDCP £735.00 GBP

    We lean by mistakes the hard way.

    But this is not the only problem with the monitor it has a nasty RGB strip running down one side of the monitor it flickers for few sec it hard to take an image of it but you can see it in G-sync when it on or off and I have been on the Acer forums to report it but I am not the only one Acer blame the panel manufacture now members of the public have report it, there was a panel problem at the time but Acer didn't say anything at the release date in 2016 some members have sent back the monitors to Acer for a replacement but got the same problem again the fight continual my monitor is only 9 month old maybe that's why acer only gave it a two warranty.

    You have only two options with Acer live with it or get a replacement and live with it again out of warranty.

    On the Acer forum by another member it reads
    The reason that 22 threads went poof is due to the fact that an ACER rep came on and explicitly admitted that ACER was in fact aware of the issue the entire time, however the fact that it was part of a defect w/ the original panel mfc, and it was to expensive for them to fix, meaning that there was no insurance with the panel mfc to fix their own issue, ACER ultimately dropped it and removed the evidence, but its still up on the internet archives and those that took screenshots.

    Due to the sheer amount of returns at amazon/newegg they removed it so that it would not be linked to, luckily I was able to show newegg on mine prior to them taking it down to which I got a full refund.

    What does this mean? Acer does not care about you 1 bit, it is simply in the business to make money, and while that is the goal of any business, there is 0 as far as customer support.

    FYI for those that were curious, Acer tried to hide a LOT of information after it blew up


     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  11. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    If you'd actually done any research at all, you'd know that AU Optronics has a history of shitty high-performance IPS panels. Just look at the panel lottery with the first-gen IPS 1440p Gsync displays.

    It's what you can expect when you push the pane to it's very limits. It will be several more years before those issue get worked-out, and these panels become more mainstream.

    They are ALMOST the only panel supplier for these screens because there is very little demand for fast, LARGE, high-resolution panels with IPS.

    You're bitching because of poor research, and jumping-the-gun to get a first-gen monitor. Every review I read says your monitor has HDMI 1.4, even though Acer tries to hide it on their spec sheet.

    http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...ator-xb321hk-32-4k-g-sync-monitor-review.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  12. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    Push? it's only G-sync @60hz anyway you can't overclock it Acer took it out in early 2017 and if I could overclock it I don't think the panel would last long do you and it's only a DP1.2 not 1.3
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  13. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    A large 4k IPS panel with 4ms response time is not-exactly commonplace, now is it? It was cutting-edge when released min 2016.

    Forget the frame rate, it's the response time that overdrives the pixels and causes artifacts. The controller is the limiting factor in these panels. These panels all push the same number of pixels-per-second:

    2560x1440 at 144hz

    3440x1440 at 100hz

    3840x2160 at 60hz

    If you can't accept this, then we have nothing more to discuss. I'll leave your thread, and you can continue bitching at a wall?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  14. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    It was design that way by Acer and if it couldn't handle it then Acer shouldn't not release it with 4ms But Samsung makes a 4K 32" also a IPS panel with 4ms

    And yes a 3840x2160 is only at 60hz with a DP1.2 not true 4K but close

    So what happens when NVidia release their G-Sync 65" monitor this year with a 120HZ at 4K!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  15. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    Not sure, I assume it's a tv panel.

    We only knew about AUO based on panels released recently. Up until that point, they had decent quality.

    There are defects in almost every cutting-edge design out there. Some are more severe than others. Manufacturers ship the products anyway, because people like you will buy then.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  16. cjcox

    cjcox Gawd

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    Manufacturers have to weigh decisions too. Use 1.4 or the new and perhaps very temporal 2.0a? Even worse, if your "dependents" all choose differently, there's even higher risk. Consumers that stay more on the bleeding edge (especially right now as the edge is rather "fat" time wise) also get a rude mixture of very incompatible things thrown at them and they have to sort it all out. Also, sadly, we're sort of lemmings. We get lost in a wave of commercials and "keeping up with the Jones's" and so we buy when the risk is higher (and usually more expensive). For example, I get laughed at because I don't have a Nest thermostat and can't turn on the lights using Alexa. I must resist.

    Manufacturer:
    Manufacturers are like... do I support Windows 98 (old), the new current Windows ME, or wait till the next one. Those that waited probably did better.

    Consumer:
    Glad I got a 4K HDR OLED TV with a tuner... wait a minute, you mean it's not an ATSC 3.0 tuner? Oh well....

    It can be very confusing...
     
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  17. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    Yes the 2.0a is new so they say! But many still use 1.4 because UHD Blu-rays are encoded at 3840X2160/24 with 4:2:0. and I don't know why many reviews say you need to have HDMI high speed cable for 60hz movies because a HDMI cable can carry 24/25/30/50/60 not just 60 anyway more Market 'BS' on the way enough to make everything more confusing and give us all big headaches

    The main problem I face is the HDCP 2.2 put in many 4K UHD players on the market today and yes my monitor is HDCP but it don't tell me if it's 2.2/1.4 and Acer is keeping this to them self