HDMI 1.4 wont produce 60HZ 2560x1440

D

digitalmedium

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Hello,
Hardware: Intel Iris Graphics (Processor: Intel 6260u)
Display: NEC PA272

the monitor above whose hdmi port according to the site https://www.nec-display-solutions.com/ is version 1.4
connecting this monitor to the PC (nuc6i5) above, whose hdmi version is 1.4 as well does not produce 60hz at 2560x1440.
basically its 30hz at 2560x1440 via hdmi.. display port does 60hz at 2560x1440 no hassle.. Whats causing this? Or this monitor is unable to do 60hz via hdmi 1.4?
 
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Whats concerning me mostly is that newer computers (Intel nuc) are ditching DisplayPorts for HDMI 2.0 entirely, and if this monitor is unable to do 60hz 2560x1440 via hdmi 2.0 likewise im stuck at display port? :/
 
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HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 can't handle as much bandwidth as comparitive Dp level. So Dp can usually do higher bitrate for same res/hz.
So I would check what the bandwidth for Dp1.4 is as it's probably not enough for 2560x1440/60/10bit
 
N4CR said:
HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 can't handle as much bandwidth as comparitive Dp level. So Dp can usually do higher bitrate for same res/hz.
So I would check what the bandwidth for Dp1.4 is as it's probably not enough for 2560x1440/60/10bit
Click to expand...
2560x1440 * 10 bpc * 3 color channels * 60 refreshes per second = 6.6 Gb/s, which is well under the 8.16 Gb/s bandwidth limit of HDMI 1.4.

To the OP, I would check to make sure your graphic driver is up to date and has come directly from Intel (not Windows Update).
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/pr...e-i5-6260U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-2-90-GHz-

I would also try another cable. Make sure it is one from a manufacturer on the HDMI adopter list.
https://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/adopters_founders.aspx

Also make sure your cable run is not exessively long. You're probably safe up to 15 metres for 2560x1440 without the need for a repeater.
 
HDMI 1.4 is capable of 2560x1440 at 60Hz but not every monitor can do it. Also, although probably not the case here, the cable needs to be at least HDMI 1.3 compliant. Did you try to force it to do 60Hz (Custom resolution)
 
AngeloBJ said:
HDMI 1.4 is capable of 2560x1440 at 60Hz but not every monitor can do it. Also, although probably not the case here, the cable needs to be at least HDMI 1.3 compliant. Did you try to force it to do 60Hz (Custom resolution)
Click to expand...
Native resolution of this monitor is 2560x1440, and the manual notes no limitations of HDMI for any supported resolution.
 
Armenius said:
2560x1440 * 10 bpc * 3 color channels * 60 refreshes per second = 6.6 Gb/s, which is well under the 8.16 Gb/s bandwidth limit of HDMI 1.4.

To the OP, I would check to make sure your graphic driver is up to date and has come directly from Intel (not Windows Update).
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/pr...e-i5-6260U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-2-90-GHz-

I would also try another cable. Make sure it is one from a manufacturer on the HDMI adopter list.
https://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/adopters_founders.aspx

Also make sure your cable run is not exessively long. You're probably safe up to 15 metres for 2560x1440 without the need for a repeater.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected! Thanks and yeah if that's case, cable/shielding/length/drivers next step. Also check for firmware updates or similar.
 
Ive updated my intel drivers to the latest off Intel website (ver. 154702.4815). Result = HDMI 30HZ.
Got a new intel nuc7i7 (hdmi 2.0a). Connecting PA272W to HDMI = 30HZ at 2560x1440.
Custom resolution forcing. Custom resolutions exceeds the maximum bandwidth capacity.
PA272W HDMI Port is unable to cope? Is it really 1.4 version as the NEC Website states..
Ordered an hdmi to display port adapter, https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Displayport-Converter-Support-Powered-Black/dp/B00WM6MPGC

Either way this leads to: NEC Display HDMI Port is "under the standard they claim it to be => 1.4"
PS. Can I delete this forum thread? Thank you for moderation.

IMG_20180928_191637.jpg
 
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digitalmedium said:
Ive updated my intel drivers to the latest off Intel website (ver. 154702.4815). Result = HDMI 30HZ.
Got a new intel nuc7i7 (hdmi 2.0a). Connecting PA272W to HDMI = 30HZ at 2560x1440.
Custom resolution forcing. Custom resolutions exceeds the maximum bandwidth capacity.
PA272W HDMI Port is unable to cope? Is it really 1.4 version as the NEC Website states..
Ordered an hdmi to display port adapter, https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Displayport-Converter-Support-Powered-Black/dp/B00WM6MPGC

Either way this leads to: NEC Display HDMI Port is "under the standard they claim it to be => 1.4"
PS. Can I delete this forum thread? Thank you for moderation.
Click to expand...
Hi, I have a similar issue with PA272w and HDMI with 2560x1440 @ 30Hz - what is your monitor's sn?

I've used 8K rated cables (checked with different display - they work) cards could also produce higher reslutions and refresh rates. Everything points to the monitor's HDMI port.
 
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Mr monitor said:
Hi, I have a similar issue with PA272w and HDMI with 2560x1440 @ 30Hz - what is your monitor's sn?

I've used 8K rated cables (checked with different display - they work) cards could also produce higher reslutions and refresh rates. Everything points to the monitor's HDMI port.
Click to expand...
Hdmi 1.4 ports cannot do 60hz 1440p. Nothing's wrong.
 
I would start by verifying your hardware. The few times that I've seen this come up, it was a hardware limitation. (ie: the hardware had HDMI 1.4, but it wasn't fully/properly implemented). I've seen this on video cards and monitors.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Hdmi 1.4 ports cannot do 60hz 1440p. Nothing's wrong.
Click to expand...
It is quite a messy format to try to look at it seem, but according to wikipedia, possible support for 1440p 60hz started with 1.3

Version 1.3[edit]​

HDMI 1.3 was released on June 22, 2006, and increased the maximum TMDS clock to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbit/s).[5][38][97] Like previous versions, it uses TMDS encoding, giving it a maximum video bandwidth of 8.16 Gbit/s (1920 × 1080 at 120 Hz or 2560 × 1440 at 60 Hz).

HDMI 1.4 is 10.2 gbs, which should make 4K at 30hz possible.

8bits per pixel at 2560x1440p is a 6.64 Gbps at 60hz, which is less than 1080p at 120hz (7.46 Gbps).

I am really not sure that all the chain do support the maximum theoretical possibility all the time too, even if they have a sticker.
 
Krispy Kritter said:
I would start by verifying your hardware. The few times that I've seen this come up, it was a hardware limitation. (ie: the hardware had HDMI 1.4, but it wasn't fully/properly implemented). I've seen this on video cards and monitors.
Click to expand...
as stated before - cables and video cards were verified.
 
Do you have a DVI output on your computer (quick google seem to say no) or a hdmi to dvi adapter/cable, that can do 1440p at 60hz-120hz (your monitor having a dual link DVI-D port)
 
Mr monitor said:
Hi, I have a similar issue with PA272w and HDMI with 2560x1440 @ 30Hz - what is your monitor's sn?
Click to expand...
The monitor's EDID does not include 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz with HDMI, so the monitor might not support it. What GPU do you have, and what happens if you create a custom resolution?


GoldenTiger said:
Hdmi 1.4 ports cannot do 60hz 1440p. Nothing's wrong.
Click to expand...
That's not true. The HDMI 1.4 standard allows up to 340 MHz pixel clock, and any GPU that supports 4K @ 30 Hz with HDMI will allow at least 297 MHz, which is more than enough for 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz. Now whether the monitor supports it is the question.


LukeTbk said:
Do you have a DVI output on your computer (quick google seem to say no) or a hdmi to dvi adapter/cable, that can do 1440p at 60hz-120hz (your monitor having a dual link DVI-D port)
Click to expand...
HDMI is single-link and will not support a dual-link DVI signal. HDMI to DisplayPort converters do exist, which should be able to support 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz.
 
Could it be a bug/regression in drivers, or perhaps a Windows 10 bug that nobody noticed? Maybe some other bug was fixed and accidentally broke 1440p@60hz. You could try older drivers and older versions of Windows/Linux to see if that works. Just some random speculation after not finding an answer.. sorry (Maybe someone can confirm whether they had HDMI 1.4 doing 1440p@60hz on any other monitor but then lost the option? Or anyone owning this monitor that gets 1440p@60hz over hdmi, share your hardware info and driver ver.). Could also be damage if its getting old.
 
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ToastyX said:
The monitor's EDID does not include 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz with HDMI, so the monitor might not support it. What GPU do you have, and what happens if you create a custom resolution?



That's not true. The HDMI 1.4 standard allows up to 340 MHz pixel clock, and any GPU that supports 4K @ 30 Hz with HDMI will allow at least 297 MHz, which is more than enough for 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz. Now whether the monitor supports it is the question.



HDMI is single-link and will not support a dual-link DVI signal. HDMI to DisplayPort converters do exist, which should be able to support 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz.
Click to expand...


Thanks for this info!
How can I check the monitor's EDID for the info about supported resolutions? OR - how do I reliably present that info to NEC support (the fact that EDID does not include 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz with HDMI) ?

I tested custom resolutions with a few current and past nvidia cards, last gen AMD and Intel integrated graphics (HD 630)
Intel supports a maximum of 44Hz at 2560x1440 (after which the monitor provides an "out of range" message)
Nvidia (1060 and some 3000 series) are able to drive the display at up to 55Hz at 2560x1440
AMD - 56Hz if I remember correctly.
As far as I can tell, all the above results were achieved only with CVT-RB timings and 8 bits per channel.

Unfortunately, I planned to use the HDMI port with a PC with intel integrated graphics (so the 44Hz is better than 30, but still feels a bit off). All other ports of the monitor are already taken, so I need the HDMI port.
 
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Mr monitor said:
How can I check the monitor's EDID for the info about supported resolutions? OR - how do I reliably present that info to NEC support (the fact that EDID does not include 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz with HDMI) ?

I tested custom resolutions with a few current and past nvidia cards, last gen AMD and Intel integrated graphics (HD 630)
Intel supports a maximum of 44Hz at 2560x1440 (after which the monitor provides an "out of range" message)
Nvidia (1060 and some 3000 series) are able to drive the display at up to 55Hz at 2560x1440
AMD - 56Hz if I remember correctly.
As far as I can tell, all the above results were achieved only with CVT-RB timings and 8 bits per channel.

Unfortunately, I planned to use the HDMI port with a PC with intel integrated graphics (so the 44Hz is better than 30, but still feels a bit off). All other ports of the monitor are already taken, so I need the HDMI port.
Click to expand...
My program Custom Resolution Utility will show you what's in the EDID. You need an AMD or NVIDIA GPU to read the extension block. "Out of range" is the monitor telling you it doesn't support the resolution, so unfortunately I don't think 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz is possible with that monitor when using HDMI. The limit should be the same with every GPU. 44 Hz sounds like it was using GTF or CVT timing instead of CVT-RB. Based on the limits you encountered, the monitor likely only supports up to 225 MHz pixel clock. The monitor probably duplicates frames below 60 Hz, so using anything other than 30 Hz or 60 Hz will result in judder. The best compromise might be to create a custom resolution like 2480x1360 with the monitor set to center the resolution and live with the 40 pixel border.
 
ToastyX said:
My program Custom Resolution Utility will show you what's in the EDID. You need an AMD or NVIDIA GPU to read the extension block. "Out of range" is the monitor telling you it doesn't support the resolution, so unfortunately I don't think 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz is possible with that monitor when using HDMI. The limit should be the same with every GPU. 44 Hz sounds like it was using GTF or CVT timing instead of CVT-RB. Based on the limits you encountered, the monitor likely only supports up to 225 MHz pixel clock. The monitor probably duplicates frames below 60 Hz, so using anything other than 30 Hz or 60 Hz will result in judder. The best compromise might be to create a custom resolution like 2480x1360 with the monitor set to center the resolution and live with the 40 pixel border.
Click to expand...
I did try custom resolution, but the image is centered and I see no clear way to move it to the side ( this needs to work in a dual monitor setup). The 50+Hz on the nvidia and AMD seem acceptable, and definitely better than 30Hz. Not sure why intel integrated only gets 44Hz (for intel it refuses to go beyond 30Hz for anything other than CVT-RB).

not sure how HDMI standards fit into this, but:

the monitor supports 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz via DP and DVI (dual link)
I've checked a few units of this model and they all cannot do 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz via HDMI (small sample size, so could be just bad luck on my side)
NEC UK support claim the monitor should be capable of 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz via HDMI (and implied the port is faulty, even though initially suggested selecting 30Hz for the HDMI as the proper mode)
NEC DE support have not provided me with a conclusive statement yet, beyond what's in the spec sheet (some systems may not support all modes listed) but also said they asked NEC JP for more info on the matter - still awaiting reply.

the spec sheet says:
NEC PA272w specs.png
 
Mr monitor said:
as stated before - cables and video cards were verified.
Click to expand...

OK. But I didn't mention cables. I stated video cards and monitors. And your last comment about the monitor seems to indicate that in fact, this monitor cannot do 60hz over HDMI.

But anyway, thanks for confirming.
 
Krispy Kritter said:
OK. But I didn't mention cables. I stated video cards and monitors. And your last comment about the monitor seems to indicate that in fact, this monitor cannot do 60hz over HDMI.

But anyway, thanks for confirming.
Click to expand...


The problem is that NEC support claims the monitor should be capable of 60Hz at 1440p via HDMI.

How can one verify the implementation of HDMI 1.4 in a monitor?
Do you maybe know of HDMI chip/port/etc failure that results in lowered bandwidth or limited pixel clock (as suggested in one of the previous posts)?

Just wondering if it's a matter of out of spec chip/port or a bad solder joint on the connector, or sth along those lines.
 
More likely how it was implemented.

I've seen this with some older nVidia cards as well. They will output the resolution over DP, but not over HDMI. Although I guess the difference here being that nVidia is often vague about their specs, and what you posted above would seem to indicate that it should be working. But again, unless I misread, you tested a couple of these models as well and it didn't work. So 3 out of 3 or whatever can't do it. I doubt all of them are faulty.
 
small update:
I've got info on a sample of 8 PA272w monitors and they all exhibited the HDMI issue. I encountered 2 people who claim their's were ok with 60Hz over HDMI, but only declaratively, so no photos of info in osd confirming the resolution and freq. or any other data confirming those claims. NEC representatives/technitians I contacted changed their opinions on that issue depending on who I talked to and where the service centre was located. Ultimately, all service centres asked for the monitors to be sent in for servicing. However, the documentation I know of points to "replacing the main board" of the monitor as the solution to any resolution or timing problems.

That said, I've managed to consistently achieve 55Hz via PA272w's HDMI port (even with intel integrated graphcs) when I entered the timings manually:
Horizontal: 2560
Sync: 32
Front porch: 47
Back porch: 80

Vertical: 1440
Sync: 5
Front porch: 3
Back porch: 33

Polarity: P, N
 
I thought DP connectors were being phased out (particularly in laptop / SFF) by USBC connectors which still carry DP. You just need a usb c to dP cable or adapter.
Unlike DP with HDMI 1.x support for non video resolutions (like QHD) is not promised or tested usually unless you see it on a spec sheet.
 
sethk said:
I thought DP connectors were being phased out (particularly in laptop / SFF) by USBC connectors which still carry DP. You just need a usb c to dP cable or adapter.
Unlike DP with HDMI 1.x support for non video resolutions (like QHD) is not promised or tested usually unless you see it on a spec sheet.
Click to expand...
Oh, but NEC (at least their service centre seems to) claims 2560x1440 @60hz is supported via hdmi, but the spec sheet is written in such a way that it only hints that it could be supported, by referencing hdmi 1.4, but leaves the option open not to support it. And indeed, the several monitors I had contact with seem to “almost” support it via hdmi :)
 
Try to use CVT-RBv2 timings according to Timing Calculator. They reduce horizontal blanking from 160 px (CVT-RB) to 80 px (CVT-RBv2), which might help to achieve 60 Hz.
However, if there's 225 MHz limit on monitor's HDMI port, it won't go over 57.5 Hz.
 
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