HD650 without an AMP on Thinkpad Laptop?

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Kasher_Khan

Limp Gawd
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OK so I am a total newb when it comes to high end audio. I currently own a Sennheiser HD555. This was an upgrade from a Bose Triport.

My HD555's are starting to crack at the plastic rims so I am sending them for warranty repair but I am traveling soon so I am considering purchasing a second pair.

The HD595 would be the obvious next choice but I rarely get a chance to listen to my home theater any more so figured it would be a good investment to upgrade the phones since I listen to them all the time.

I am consiering the HD600 or HD650 (can't really tell if there is that much of a difference between them) they sell on Amazon for $300 and $350 respectively.

I can easliy afford that but I don't know what else is needed to make these high end phones work. My primary source is going to be a Thinkpad T410s laptop (it has the mic and headphone jack in one port - didn't know if that was a bad thing).

My main question is ... How will they sound on a laptop wihout an AMP. I listen to my current HD555s on an Creative XFI sound card and with the sound effects and all its seems they sound better then when plugged to my home theater.

So would the HD650s be a waste on the puny laptop sound card? and I should stick with the HD595 or should I go for it?

How much of a difference does the AMP make? Can anyone recommend an amp that I can plug into it that is tiny and can be used in conjunction with my laptop????

Note: I listen to vocal trance, electronic, very little classical and a lot of movies.

Thanks in advance.
 
Ok I did some research and found a couple of similar threads.

People seem to be recommending the Headroom micro or total airhead ($100 &$300) the later is almost as much as the heaphones...

I really cant afford that. I have been researching on line and it seems people are split on how much of an precetible difference does the amp actually make.

The more I read, the more I am considering the 595 might be my cup of tea...

I wish there was some place I can try these out. :(
 
The problem you'll most likely have with the 650s and a laptop is it'll be too quiet. I had that when I had 580s. They are pretty low efficiency/high impedance so they take a lot of power to drive. Laptops couldn't handle it. As such they were medium quiet at best. Needed an amplified source to really get good sound levels.
 
I have a hd650, and just tested it on my friend's t400.

Volume is not an issue at all, and the hd650's sound good on it.. but its also wasting a lot of potential.
I listened for only a few minutes on a few of the mp3's, and the air and clarity was the first thing I noticed that was a bit compromised.. Other than that, it was hard to tell.. my roommate was playing halo in the background, and I was only on his computer for a few minutes.
 
I would recommend a lower impedance headphone for direct use out of a laptop-or perhaps a headphone that is known to be less dependent on amplification. HD650/600/580 would not be a good choice without an amp. HD595 is solid for your use, but better headphones can be had. I would highly recommend checking out the Audio Technica A/AD series, specifically the AD900s (or AD2000s, if you can afford them). They are very efficient being driven out of regular, everyday sources, and should sound great through your thinkpad. Denon D2000s also sound great un-amplified, if you want to go with a closed back solution. I'm sure someone will chime in with more recommendations, but check these headphones out for sure!
 
Thanks for the quick response.

I have been googling since my post and have concluded that the Denon D2000 would be a better match for my needs (I preffer the bass over the better sound stage of the open desing of the HD650s).

However I am still stuck with the amp no amp dilema. I have been spending some time on headfi forum and it seems no one can give a straigh answer (and I don't expect them to - audio is subjective). Some people think that sound from a laptop\ipod should be fine but can be improved with an amp because the H2000s are low impedence unlike HD650s.

Others think without amp its a waste. So I am looking for a sub $200 amp (it has been suggested that tubular amps are not well suited to the denon)

So still researching. Any further input would be much appericiated.
 
Kasher_Khan said:
Thanks for the quick response.

I have been googling since my post and have concluded that the Denon D2000 would be a better match for my needs (I preffer the bass over the better sound stage of the open desing of the HD650s).

However I am still stuck with the amp no amp dilema. I have been spending some time on headfi forum and it seems no one can give a straigh answer (and I don't expect them to - audio is subjective). Some people think that sound from a laptop\ipod should be fine but can be improved with an amp because the H2000s are low impedence unlike HD650s.

Others think without amp its a waste. So I am looking for a sub $200 amp (it has been suggested that tubular amps are not well suited to the denon)

So still researching. Any further input would be much appericiated.
Click to expand...

Un-amplified D2000s are certainly not a waste; in fact, they will sound killer out of most of any source, as long as the audio quality is reasonably good. An amp will deepen bass response and open up the soundstage of the headphone a little bit, but the differences are honestly minute at best. You are absolutely correct when you say audio is completely subjective...what I would recommend doing is buying the D2000s and listening to them thoroughly through your source after a proper driver burn-in. After that, you can evaluate whether an amplifier is a warranted upgrade or not. :)

I can tell you this...from my experience, most sub $200 amps make very little difference. You will only notice big differences in sound quality once you start getting into high end amplification...I am a sucker for tube amps, personally, as they add warmth and sparkle to a lot of otherwise dull and lifeless heapdhones. Just my 2 cents. :)
 
Since you're looking for bass and listen to trance and electronic music, the Beyerdynamic DT770 would also be a good match for you. A DT770-80 would be driven perfectly fine from a laptop out and can be had for almost half the price of the D2000. The mid-range on the DT770 is it's downfall but still, it's not really as woolly as that of the Sennheiser HD5x5 series either and again, at $120-130 used, it costs quite a bit less than the D2000.
 
m3ta1head said:
Un-amplified D2000s are certainly not a waste; in fact, they will sound killer out of most of any source, as long as the audio quality is reasonably good. An amp will deepen bass response and open up the soundstage of the headphone a little bit, but the differences are honestly minute at best. You are absolutely correct when you say audio is completely subjective...what I would recommend doing is buying the D2000s and listening to them thoroughly through your source after a proper driver burn-in. After that, you can evaluate whether an amplifier is a warranted upgrade or not. :)

I can tell you this...from my experience, most sub $200 amps make very little difference. You will only notice big differences in sound quality once you start getting into high end amplification...I am a sucker for tube amps, personally, as they add warmth and sparkle to a lot of otherwise dull and lifeless heapdhones. Just my 2 cents. :)
Click to expand...

I am leaning towards this approach myself. I do not have local store that carries high end stuff so I think the best thing to do would be to try out the HD2000's without an AMP directly with my laptop. I am hoping it will be a big improvement over my HD555s which sound ok with a laptop but not gr8.

Amps seem to be out of reach right now. It has been suggest that MKV,little dot and Pico etc are the way to go. But those cost more than the headphones and I don't think I am an audiophile just yet.

From what I have read about the HD2000s it seems they should be pretty good with the kind of music I like and movies. I don't care for perfect mids cause the stuff I listen to probably will drown out the mids on any phones.

Going to go ahead and order the HD2000s from Amazon today.
 
Ok so the HD2000s are just got shipped today (wohoo). Paid $257 w shipping at Amazon.


Since I have been so excited about my new phones I spent all day at work reading about different amps.

It seems the ibasso d2+ boa (169$) would be a great fit for my intended use with a T410s laptop (the build in DAC should be better than the integrated sound card I am told). So before I spend more money, anybody tried this speacific combo? d2+d2000 i.e for use with a laptop.
 
I suggest looking into AudioTechnica if you want to run without an amp. It also suits your music (IMO).
 
lixuelai said:
I suggest looking into AudioTechnica if you want to run without an amp. It also suits your music (IMO).
Click to expand...

Isn't that going to be a downgrade from my existing HD555?

The other question I had was what do people think of the Creative Xfi Notebook express34 sound card? I have an existing Xfi card in my desktop and do enjoy the 3d effect for the headphones (works really nice with my senn) but at roughly $70 it is pretty expensive and will be cutting into my future DAC/AMP budget.

Alternatively I was considering the ibasso D2+ boa (DAC/AMP). Wouldn't the DAC part of that cover what the XFi will do anyways (aside from the effects ofcourse).

Thanks.
 
AT's are very odd cans. The way they're voiced is just very strange to me, especially their closed cans. If you like your HD555s, the Denon's would be a better upgrade than an AT. Also, for most AT's, bass isn't really something they excel at, imaging and soundstaging are usually their high-points.
 
I get my Denons tomorrow at work. I will give them a quick test run and post my impressions.
 
First Impressions
listening time: less than 5 minutes (still at work)

They are very comfortable - slightly on the lose side - I kind prefer the HD555s snug feel. These feel like they would fall off.

I can definitely see what people were on about with the cables being thick.

Sound:

To be honest I am a little disappointed. The bass is definitely less than the HD555s. Not sure if that because I tested them with my crappy laptop at work or because I didn't use a DAC/AMP. Either way, my HD555s sound much better with the same laptop.

I really have to go home and try them out with my home receiver to get a real sense of how they sound. However the ultimate use if definitely going to be with a laptop.

How much of an improvement can I expect from the ibasso d2+. I will let them burn in for the next couple of weeks but to be honest I don't believe in it too much.
 
I had the HD555 and the AD700 at the same time last year and sold the HD555 as the AD700 was better in nearly every way (IMO). The bass was not as strong but it was a lot more tight vs the muddy feel the HD555 has. The A900 certainly doesn't lose to the HD555 in bass in both strength and quality but it is ~3x the price so hardly a fair comparison.

p.s. Supposedly the HD555 share the same driver as the HD595 and can be modded into the HD595 to remove some of the "muddiness". Might want to look into that.
 
Kasher_Khan said:
First Impressions
listening time: less than 5 minutes (still at work)

They are very comfortable - slightly on the lose side - I kind prefer the HD555s snug feel. These feel like they would fall off.

I can definitely see what people were on about with the cables being thick.

Sound:

To be honest I am a little disappointed. The bass is definitely less than the HD555s. Not sure if that because I tested them with my crappy laptop at work or because I didn't use a DAC/AMP. Either way, my HD555s sound much better with the same laptop.

I really have to go home and try them out with my home receiver to get a real sense of how they sound. However the ultimate use if definitely going to be with a laptop.

How much of an improvement can I expect from the ibasso d2+. I will let them burn in for the next couple of weeks but to be honest I don't believe in it too much.
Click to expand...

Honestly the HD555 isn't a very good headphone, so I am a bit surprised that you are disappointed in the Denons in direct comparison...I would suggest burning in the headphones and getting a good feel for their sound signature. They may not sound "good" to you right now, but sound is very subjective, and the Denons will probably grow on you because they a great all around headphone.

Source could definitely be the issue-although I ran my Denons straight out of my iRiver mp3 player with great SQ, you might not have the same luck through that laptop. It may be worthwhile to invest in a decent DAC....but first and foremost, plug the Denons into a better source and get a good feel for them.
 
Hmmmmmm weird impressions as I have had all 3 of those headphones on hand testing them side by side.

( Hornet amp and Zhaolu D2.5C sources )

The Denon D2000 ( the one that I kept ) sounded amazing out of any source, equally terrific out of my modded xtrememusic with no additional amp.

The Beyer DT770-80's sounded similar to the D2000, but mid range, and quality overall was no match for the D2000's.

The HD555 sounded very average, as is their pricing.

I don't know how in the world the D2000 has less bass than the HD555, because my first impression was that the D2000 were almost as bassy as the DT770, but much cleaner better quality bass.

Very surprising you didn't notice when first using the Denon that the clarity blows away the HD555, and the bass extension is much deeper on the Denon.
 
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This thing is AMAZING !

I can't believe I said what I did before. It was definitely my Dell E6400 at work. I guess the HD555 was easier to drive or whatever.

Anyways I went home and first plugged it into my Xfi-Xtreme Music Desktop card. Definetly noticed a huge improvement over my experience at the office earlier in the morning. I was like ok.. this I can get used to.

But then I connected them to my Pioneer Receiver in the living room cranked up the volume. My God! These things sound amazing. No question about it. HD555s can't even compare. I am not an audiophile but I don't think it takes one to notice the difference. The bass was amazing (although I am still hoping it will get a tigher kick after it burns in). THe highs were super. Loud but soft (so that they don't hurt your ears at even very loud volumes). Definetly a keeper. I spent only a couple of hours last night listening to them. All I can think of now is to get back home and start listening again.

I defintely think I am going to order an ibasso d2+boa for these for use with my laptop. I don't think the laptop sound card has the umph to drive it. If that dac\amp can match my home theater receivers quality I'd be the happiest man ever.

My current listeing time is still only a few hours. I will post more impressions as soon as I get the time. BTW any opions on the ibasso with this combo are much appericiated.
 
I placed an order for the ibasso d2+

But read something online that worries me. Is it true that when plugged to a laptop through USB cable, the unit will only act as a DAC and to use it as an AMP you have to use mini stereo cable?

Doesn't sound correct to me so maybe i miss understood.

Can anyone clarify this i.e When using USB cable with laptop, will I get both the DAC and AMP functionality (cleaning signal and amplification as well?)
 
The ibasso d2 will work as a dac/amp combo, standalone dac, and a standalone amp.
 
Third Impressions:

These phones sound fantastic with any source 320kbps or higher. If the bit rate is any lower they sound terrible. Is that to be expected of semi-high end phones like these?
 
Kasher_Khan said:
Third Impressions:

These phones sound fantastic with any source 320kbps or higher. If the bit rate is any lower they sound terrible. Is that to be expected of semi-high end phones like these?
Click to expand...

Yes, because they are more accurate than cheaper headphones so they reveal how crappy low bit-rate mp3's sound.
 
You will like the iBasso. I have its big brother, the D4 Mamba, and it is awesome.
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