HD 4850 Overclocked Vs 9800GTX+

[G66]

Ok I'm have real problems with this, because all of the benchmarks in every review differ. I notice that Hexus.net benchmarks tend to say the nvidia cards are beating the ATI HD 48x0 series.

Compare this Hexus review: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=14351&page=9

To this toms hardware review: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964.html

Which is better in reality? and which should I get btw I don't need anti aliasing

I can get a 9800GTX+ for £135

I can get an HD 4850 for £115
Or an overclocked Saphire HD 4850 Toxic for £150

 

[MrGuvernment]

wait till hard or anandtech does theirs

i am sure they will each win somewhere, but hard to compare a OC card vs NON oc'd card.... not really apples to apples now is it.

 

[kllrnohj]

The two are so damn close that I would suggest you just buy the cheaper of the two - in this case, the HD 4850. Both are solid and competitive, but I would say that the 4850 has a bit of a tech edge (single slot, DX 10.1, better AA, less power, less heat, etc...).

 

[G66]

Some of the reviews out there just completely disagree with each other, its so hard to make sense of it all without proper benchmarks that I can trust... Does anyone know when Hard will be doing there review?

 

[G66]

The two are so damn close that I would suggest you just buy the cheaper of the two - in this case, the HD 4850. Both are solid and competitive, but I would say that the 4850 has a bit of a tech edge (single slot, DX 10.1, better AA, less power, less heat, etc...).

Less heat? This is the HD 4850 were talking about . Thats one of the reasons I'm looking at the Saphire Toxic edition it has a zalman cooler that puts the temps down to like 40 idle 60 load, instead of the 70-80 idle 90 load horror story's lol

 

[kllrnohj]

Less heat? This is the HD 4850 were talking about . Thats one of the reasons I'm looking at the Saphire Toxic edition it has a zalman cooler that puts the temps down to like 40 idle 60 load, instead of the 70-80 idle 90 load horror story's lol

Temperature is not heat. The 4850 puts out less heat (granted, according to hexus it is only by 2-5w, but its still less). It may run at a higher temp, but this is largely irrelevant unless you are overclocking. That said, mine idle's in mid 60s C, and loads in mid 80s C

 

[G66]

hmm, thats why I'd want a zalman cooler on mine, I wan't to do some overclocking, but I don't wan't to have to mess around with gpu coolers... but that would put me back £30...

At this point I'm thinking **** it go for a HD 4870 too bad I'm not rich

I'm looking to be able to play Crysis at 1440x900 res with max details with this new card, do you reckon the HD 4850 will be able to do that?

 

[Jokeinjoker]

4850.

 

[kllrnohj]

hmm, thats why I'd want a zalman cooler on mine, I wan't to do some overclocking, but I don't wan't to have to mess around with gpu coolers... but that would put me back £30...

At this point I'm thinking **** it go for a HD 4870 too bad I'm not rich

I'm looking to be able to play Crysis at 1440x900 res with max details with this new card, do you reckon the HD 4850 will be able to do that?

You can also just up the fan speed on the 4850. I've heard that that drastically cuts the temp, even at only 40-50%. The 4850, according to [H], can play Crysis 1280x1024 all High (except one setting on medium - objects, I think, don't remember). 1280x1024 is roughly the same number of pixels as 1440x900, so no, you can't do max details. High does look very good though...

 

[LstBrunnenG]

From what I've seen the two cards (at stock) are in a dead heat, go with the cheaper of the two.

 

[legcramp]

1440x900 has lesser pixels than 1280x1024, plus overclocking, you might be able to, but who knows

 

[kllrnohj]

1440x900 has lesser pixels than 1280x1024, plus overclocking, you might be able to, but who knows

Barely fewer - not enough to make any real difference, and certainly not enough to go from all High to all Very High.

 

[legcramp]

You're right, can the HD4870 even do all Very High at that resolution?

 

[Mystic-Micro]

I don''t get it, why is everyone complaining about the 4850 heat, the x1000 got a lot hotter, where louder and drew a ton more power, but it was praised!! Am I missing something here, or the 4850 PCB really cant handle 90C?

 

[legcramp]

HD4850 aren't even that hot, people are confused with the actual heat the cards are putting out vs how crappy the stock cooler is before bumping up the fan speed........................

 

[Lost!]

HD4850 aren't even that hot, people are confused with the actual heat the cards are putting out vs how crappy the stock cooler is before bumping up the fan speed........................

Well looks like the FUD campaign succeeded.

First the noisy 2900XT now this.

 

[JimmiG]

Radeon 4850 > 9800GTX
9800GTX+ > Radeon 4850

Overclocked 4850? Depends on the overclock I guess.

It also depends on which games are tested. Some prefer Nvidia GPUs, others prefer ATI. ATI gpus are basically stronger at doing compute operations, while Nvidia is stronger at texture heavy operations.

I can get a 9800GTX+ for £135
I can get an HD 4850 for £115
Or an overclocked Saphire HD 4850 Toxic for £150

If you want to save some money and still get an awesome gaming experience, go with the bog standard 4850. The reference cooler isn't a problem unless you plan on overclocking heavily. Many are running mild overclocks using the stock cooler. Max temperature allowed for continuous operation is 104C but the GPU runs way cooler than that, at around 84 - 90C for most.

The 9800GTX+ will be slightly faster but I doubt it's anything you'd notice in actual games. It does come with a dual slot cooler that exhausts the hot air from the case, though. I haven't got any temperature related problems with one 80mm intake fan and two 80mm exhaust fans, but the 4850 will heat up the case more than the 9800 for sure.

I would not get the overclocked 4850. It looks a little overpriced and while it does come with a dual slot cooler, it's not the type that exhausts the hot air from the case. It dumps it inside the case just like the reference 4850 cooler - so while the GPU temps will be lower, it will heat up the case even more than the stock 4850.

 

[ZMTToxics]

Its so simple right now. The 4800 series is AWESOME.

4850 or 4870 or wait for the 4870x2.

 

[JimmiG]

Its so simple right now. The 4800 series is AWESOME.

4850 or 4870 or wait for the 4870x2.

Actually, for the first time in many years, it's not simple.

It used to be - "Which Nvidia card do I get?" Sure, that was confusing enough with all the GT, GS, GTX, GTS, GX2 etc. variants, but it was just one brand. ATI didn't have anything except maybe the 3870 which was comparable to the 9600GT.

Now we have the 4850 and the 9800 series competing in the mid-range segment and the 4870 and GTX260 in the high-end, and soon ATI will launch the X2 which will add some choice in the enthusiast segment as well.

 

[grimreeferx09]

go with whatever has the better warranty/bundle.
performance is pretty similar between those 3 cards.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

The NV card is old technology on steriods....... It doesn't support anything moving forward (neither does the 260/280) so why bother? The 9800GTX+ is just a panic reaction card.

 

[JimmiG]

The question is, will DX 10.1 ever matter? 9800GTX may be "old technology", but it's good technology. It took ATI three attempts to match the performance of it (first 2900, then 3800, then 4800).

 

[bangmal]

of course DX 10.1 matters, as reported some big publishers will use that, and others will follow.

And you are also wrong about the "three attempts" crap, the 3800 did beat the 880GTS 320 and 640, thats why nvidia rushed out the 8800GT and GTX512. And 4800 to finish off all the 8000/9000 rubbish, including the "next G" GTX 260

 

[64bit_is_here]

The NV card is old technology on steriods....... It doesn't support anything moving forward (neither does the 260/280) so why bother? The 9800GTX+ is just a panic reaction card.

exactly

some of the newer games run so much faster on the 4850 than the 9800GTX+, it definitely shows that the newer rv770 cores have so much raw power waiting to be extracted from it

9800GTX+ is basically g80 tweaked cores, i dont think there much more performance to be extracted from those cores

id say 4850. definitely. NOT the overclocked one, the deal for 115 pounds

 

[JimmiG]

of course DX 10.1 matters, as reported some big publishers will use that, and others will follow.

Many have DX10 hardware but are still holding on to XP/DX9. No title looks or runs significantly better under DX10 compared to DX9 - even the mighty Crysis looks pretty much identical in DX9 and DX10 mode on my system, except I get little white dots everywhere in DX10 mode because of the buggy ATI drivers. DX10.1.. don't really see the point. Some developers even remove DX 10.1 support 'cause it's not worth it. The next DX version that matters will be DX11.

The 2900 was an utter disaster..3800 was a reasonably good attempt at cleaning up the mess but like you said, nvidia just tweaked their pricing structure a little and suddenly their old tech dating back to the original 8800 cards of 2006 was suddenly king of the hill again. The 4800-series finally got it right and they can now match and sometimes surpass the Nvidia cards from 2006.

 

[wol-va-rine]

Some of the reviews out there just completely disagree with each other, its so hard to make sense of it all without proper benchmarks that I can trust... Does anyone know when Hard will be doing there review?

it's already finished, just waiting on Nvidia at this point, ATI's final bid is in, and Nvidia has until midnight tonight to submit their final bid, once that bid is received the winner should be announced via a review tomorrow...

since I have one of the players in this "review", I await the results with bated breath...

 

[coyo5050]

I just got the 4850 and I am thrilled. I have been playing Crysis at 1280x1024 on my 42" plasma TV and it looks amazing and runs smooth. With the fan fix I bumped the fan speed up to 45%, don't notice the sound and can overclock it to 650mhz and memory to 1100 runs solid. Price after rebate $140. Last 3 cards were Nvidia, 3 before that were 3dfx, last ATI was awhile ago. Best value ever on a video card in the 10+ years I've been buying them. My 6800GT OC was limping along. I'm gonna get a second for crossfire next month!

 

[G66]

I wonder if the RV770 core really has got some "Untapped" power... All those stream processors...

I think I'm going to wait for a month or 2 for things to settle down in the GPU market... and above all, to see nvidia's true HD4800 series counter measure... Nvidia have to have something in the works, people are only going to keep buying there old tech for so long...

 

[convexion]

The 4850 will give you the best bang for your buck I think. Just make sure you get one from a company that provides a decent hsf setup. Mine is super loud if you crank the fan speed up anywhere past about 65%.

 

[Nuker]

Many have DX10 hardware but are still holding on to XP/DX9. The 4800-series finally got it right and they can now match and sometimes surpass the Nvidia cards from 2006.

Are you crazy?! The 4800 series is far superior to nvidia's offerings in 2006.
And a 4850 is the better buy of the two. According to what I've read it matches the 9800GTX+ w/o AA and surpasses it with AA enabled (which is essentially free), so go for a 4850. It also has a massive OC headroom which nvidia can not match (although you will need to adjust the RPMs on your fans).

 

[JimmiG]

Are you crazy?! The 4800 series is far superior to nvidia's offerings in 2006.
And a 4850 is the better buy of the two. According to what I've read it matches the 9800GTX+ w/o AA and surpasses it with AA enabled (which is essentially free), so go for a 4850. It also has a massive OC headroom which nvidia can not match (although you will need to adjust the RPMs on your fans).

The 4870 is better than G80 tech, the 4850 is about on par with the original high-end 8800 series, but at a fraction of the price, of course.

4850, 9800GTX and 9800GTX+ perform essentially identically:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964-19.html

I would make my purchasing decision based on whichever card was the cheapest. I wouldn't pay a premium for the 9800GTX+, not for a gain of a little over 2.5 FPS on average over the 9800GTX or 1.3 FPS over the 4850. Same goes for a pre-overclocked 4850 which would probably beat the 9800GTX+ but by how much? 1.5 FPS?

 

[JUSTJOEL73]

The 4850 is the better card. It has way more head room for over OC. You need to flash the Bios on the card to allow OC beyond 700mhz. All you need is sufficent cooling. Mine has been running at 700 stable with no crashes even with 3 hrs gaming at 80C under load. The 4850 is basically the same GPU as the 4870, it is just that the 4850 has been crippled in its bios to prevent OC to its full potential. The only real difference is the GDDR5.

 

[mellojoe]

Get a non-overclocked card and then overclock it yourself. Its actually quite easy.

 

[deddyeka]

yeah, i also like ATI better, it has the better , and more advance technology since 3800 series..
with its DX10.1 and shader model 4.1

just the compatibility is not as good as NVIDIA

speed = nvidia ( coz hardware and software are compatible )
ati need more compatibility to put nvidia far behind

 

[wol-va-rine]

You can also just up the fan speed on the 4850. I've heard that that drastically cuts the temp, even at only 40-50%. The 4850, according to [H], can play Crysis 1280x1024 all High (except one setting on medium - objects, I think, don't remember). 1280x1024 is roughly the same number of pixels as 1440x900, so no, you can't do max details. High does look very good though...

Crysis at 1280x1024 with all high settings and 4x AA at about 40fps mostly, but it will drop into the 20s in some spots, with the bios edit and fan fix it idles at 160/500mhz and never gets above 60 when the hair dryer kicks in, right after ending a Crysis session (even after 2-3 hours) I check CCC and have yet to see 60°...

 

[deddyeka]

The 4850 is the better card. It has way more head room for over OC. You need to flash the Bios on the card to allow OC beyond 700mhz. All you need is sufficent cooling. Mine has been running at 700 stable with no crashes even with 3 hrs gaming at 80C under load. The 4850 is basically the same GPU as the 4870, it is just that the 4850 has been crippled in its bios to prevent OC to its full potential. The only real difference is the GDDR5.

do you have the bios link ?
i am eager to try oc beyond 700.

and one more question
after biosflash

4850 core 750 + mem 1.100X2 GDDR3
vs
4870 Core 750 + mem 1.100x2 gddr5

do you notice any difference ?

 

[Simpson5774]

I bought the 9800GTX+ because yeah the difference is not much, but I have a SLi motherboard, and stalker which I intend to play alot is much better on nvidia hardware. Maybe ill pick another one up a few months down the line for 100. Also its a definite plus to have a heatsink that exhausts the heat out of the case.

 

[Gorankar]

yeah, i also like ATI better, it has the better , and more advance technology since 3800 series..
with its DX10.1 and shader model 4.1

just the compatibility is not as good as NVIDIA

speed = nvidia ( coz hardware and software are compatible )
ati need more compatibility to put nvidia far behind

compatibility? please enlighten me.

 

[PRIME1]

Get the 9800GTX+ it's slighty faster and supports Physx.

It also does not run as hot and as the volcano 4850 so you can overclock it better.

The stock 4850 fan is a POS.

 

[Miscommunication]

4850 ftw, /thread.

Physx means nothing since it lowers FPS...I don't know why people keep bringing it up. As of yet, you can't use a second card just for physics either (doubt it ever will), and how many titles use it? I mean it is useful if you play 3DMark though.