HBO Orders Bar To Stop Showing Game of Thrones

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What would happen if the bar continued to show Game of Thrones, but only to customers that have a subscription to HBO? ;)

On Sunday, just hours before the new episode of Game of Thrones was scheduled to air, HBO sent Brooklyn bar Videology "a very polite but official letter" requesting that they stop hosting weekly Game of Thrones screening parties.
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This makes no sense. Bars have been showing Football games that are only available with the NFL package for AGES.. Seems reasonable to me
 
At the beginning of shows, and part of the contract you sign for the service, it mentions that you cannot show them for crowds or whatever. Personal use only... Something like that. You have to pay more for a commercial viewing.

Sucks nuts, though. Personally, I'd let it slide. It's something that brings in more viewers. I have watched 2 episodes of season 1 and wasn't impressed. I might go to a bar to watch it with other people, though, if I was there. Might get hooked if I saw some good parts...

But, legally, they have to do the official letter stuff. Lawyers have no feelings and no soul, so they have to do stuff like this.
 
How is this any different than someone who has HBO at home inviting a bunch of friends over that dont have HBO to watch Game of Thrones?
 
Carouselambra said:
This makes no sense. Bars have been showing Football games that are only available with the NFL package for AGES.. Seems reasonable to me
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Yes, but they're paying FAR more for the package than a home user does.

Source: My stepbrother is the head manager for a Bikini's sports bar and grill in Austin and he told me this.
 
MrWrong said:
How is this any different than someone who has HBO at home inviting a bunch of friends over that dont have HBO to watch Game of Thrones?
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Do you make a profit every time some friends come over and watch your TV?
 
I thought you could show the games if you wanted in bars, but no sound, which is why the crappy music is playing.
 
boss99 said:
I thought you could show the games if you wanted in bars, but no sound, which is why the crappy music is playing.
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I am curious about that. Most of the bars around here constantly have ESPN on all the TVs but muted/subtitles. The only time the sound is on is when there's a major sports game like the finals, championship, superbowl, world cup etc..
 
This may be a sign that HBO is ready to start a commercial package like the NFL and charge the commercial establishments to publicly show the materials (pretty smart actually as there are only a few shows that are commercial enough to permit this and the NFL commercial packages are very lucrative for both the NFL and the bars that have them)
 
Ur_Mom said:
At the beginning of shows, and part of the contract you sign for the service, it mentions that you cannot show them for crowds or whatever. Personal use only... Something like that. You have to pay more for a commercial viewing.

Sucks nuts, though. Personally, I'd let it slide. It's something that brings in more viewers. I have watched 2 episodes of season 1 and wasn't impressed. I might go to a bar to watch it with other people, though, if I was there. Might get hooked if I saw some good parts...

But, legally, they have to do the official letter stuff. Lawyers have no feelings and no soul, so they have to do stuff like this.
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I didn't quite make it through the second episode of Season 1. Everyone at work talks about it constantly and they all assure me that it gets better, but that was almost two hours of my life I'll never get back.

I am sure there is some clause either in the subscription with the cable company or flashed briefly before the start of an episode that it is not for public exhibition or something similar. This could still be a murky area in terms of legality though, as long as the bar is not charging an admission fee for their viewing parties. Like previous posters mentioned, sports programs are constantly being viewed in bars.
 
MrCaffeineX said:
I didn't quite make it through the second episode of Season 1. Everyone at work talks about it constantly and they all assure me that it gets better, but that was almost two hours of my life I'll never get back.

I am sure there is some clause either in the subscription with the cable company or flashed briefly before the start of an episode that it is not for public exhibition or something similar. This could still be a murky area in terms of legality though, as long as the bar is not charging an admission fee for their viewing parties. Like previous posters mentioned, sports programs are constantly being viewed in bars.
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And there are special licenses to show those games (the NFL is particularly good at enforcing their license) ... and as others have noted those group licenses are much more expensive than the individual viewer license (to put it into perspective it is similar to the difference between a personal software license and a site license) ;)
 
MrCaffeineX said:
I didn't quite make it through the second episode of Season 1. Everyone at work talks about it constantly and they all assure me that it gets better, but that was almost two hours of my life I'll never get back.

I am sure there is some clause either in the subscription with the cable company or flashed briefly before the start of an episode that it is not for public exhibition or something similar. This could still be a murky area in terms of legality though, as long as the bar is not charging an admission fee for their viewing parties. Like previous posters mentioned, sports programs are constantly being viewed in bars.
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Before major sporting events, they mention they need the express written consent of the NFL (or whatever else). I know they do it, but there is that legal clause they put in there. I don't work in a bar, but maybe Major knows... Do they have commercial contracts for bars and such for broadcasting to a group? Or is the same consumer stuff?
 
This isn't exactly the same, but I've downloaded every episode of GOT to watch on my cell when I'm on the train, because it's the only time I get. That's technically prohibited, of course, yet I have always had a subscription to HBO and HBO Now when it became available. I look at it as location-shifting, analogous to time-shifting. I can't get a good enough signal when I'm commuting for HBO Now, and I wouldn't want to use the data anyway.
 
Technically all bars can't show any TV unless they're paying for public exhibition rights (which I've never heard of one doing). This is just something that's not enforced. Is is right or wrong? Dunno.
 
when i started up GTA 5 PC the game said that I cannot play the game publicly, i guess this is similar.

its pretty fucking stupid.
 
The BMI charges between $357 and $10,687 per year to play music so I'd bet theres something similar for sports and other TV.
 
MrWrong said:
How is this any different than someone who has HBO at home inviting a bunch of friends over that dont have HBO to watch Game of Thrones?
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First off, because it's commercial usage.

And second, they do pretty much have to do it. It's legal and it works like this. Say this is a small bar and HBO thinks "not a big deal, let them slide". Now three months later, Hooters starts doing the same thing Franchise wide and HBO is like, "Man we are losing some bucks and Hooters is the one making them. So HBO sues Hooters but Hooters knows about the little bar HBO let slide. Hooters will argue that HBO did not defend their rights before and therefor they have no standing to do so now, and they will win. Hooters just needs to show proof that HBO knew about the other bar and didn't take any action.
 
Carouselambra said:
This makes no sense. Bars have been showing Football games that are only available with the NFL package for AGES.. Seems reasonable to me
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No. Just because bars show football games doesn't mean they have the RIGHT to do it. It may be so rampant that the NFL can do little to stop it.

Showing a premium channel HBO show like Game Of Thrones is FAR less common and they are advertising it. An HBO subscription does not give you the right to show it to other people, let alone for COMMERCIAL USE.

Sure, if you invite 10 people over that may not be "legal" but no one is going to say anything. When a bar does it, they are SPECIFICALLY making financial gains off of someone else's intellectual property by drawing more people into the bar because of the allure of Game Of Thrones that HBO paid to produce. The bar is using copyrighted material they have no rights to use for their own financial gain. HBO is 100% right.
 
lcpiper said:
First off, because it's commercial usage.
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All that is needed... :D

Company A provides services, Company B takes advantage of those services and jacks up their in house prices on food and drink. High profit is made since Company B does not pay the providers, company B, jack poopie other than the required subscription payment....everyone catches wind. Company A will be out millions due to no one paying for personal service, but rather going to a "group event" paying minimal or nothing at all to watch.

Title Fights, UFC, etc, etc....why do you think Movie theaters have high costs on food....
 
MrTroy03 said:
Sure, if you invite 10 people over that may not be "legal" but no one is going to say anything. When a bar does it, they are SPECIFICALLY making financial gains off of someone else's intellectual property by drawing more people into the bar because of the allure of Game Of Thrones that HBO paid to produce. The bar is using copyrighted material they have no rights to use for their own financial gain. HBO is 100% right.
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Even if you're not making a profit, showing the Super Bowl (or any copyrighted media) to others on a screen larger than 55 inches represents copyright infringement. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070201/140812.shtml
Look at 5.B.i.II
 
This is why Wrestlemania and boxing matches cost 60 to 80 dollars. The overhead of having a bar license pushed these prices onto home users. That way they have consildated billing.
 
OEM said:
Yes, but they're paying FAR more for the package than a home user does.
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Yeah this...depending upon what it is that is watching, they could charge them based on the total capacity of the bar regardless of how many customers are there. So 120 capacity establishment, then they pay as if 120 people are viewing.
 
There are several issues at hand here:

1) HBO is a pay channel, not over the air.
2) Local market NFL games on OTA channels can be shown in bars within the market area (with caveats).
3) NFL games outside the market area cannot be shown without a special package usually NFL Sunday Ticket.

HBO is not a public channel and they charge for their services. This is the main reason they are going after the bar, because the bar is essentially giving free previews of HBO using one of HBO's premiere shows. Since bars can hold a lot of people, that is a lot of free content being given away. For one bar it may not be a big deal, but if you let one do it, it becomes a slippery slope that others follow and becomes much harder to prosecute or stop later.

As for NFL football, there are many rules that govern those broadcasts. If it is a local game on OTA channels you can show it, as long as you follow these rules:

1) The game must not be blacked out.
2) Screen cannot be greater than 55" and/or sound cannot be played on more than 4 loudspeakers.
3) You cannot charge admission to watch the game.

If you fall outside of these restrictions you can get a commercial license for NFL Sunday Ticket or similar. Those licenses charge based on the fire code occupancy of the restaurant. This is my understanding of the rules that are in place governing the NFL viewing from various articles, restaurant owners, and NFL legal speak.
 
I remember a long time ago the bar owner having a dispute with the local fire marsall. He pegged the occupancy higher and it cost him an increase in his bill.. lol.
 
sliverjazz said:
This is why Wrestlemania and boxing matches cost 60 to 80 dollars. The overhead of having a bar license pushed these prices onto home users. That way they have consildated billing.
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you have to pay a different price if you are ordering from a business establishment or for commercial purposes, it is something like $1500.
 
sliverjazz said:
This is why Wrestlemania and boxing matches cost 60 to 80 dollars. The overhead of having a bar license pushed these prices onto home users. That way they have consildated billing.
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I disagree, they cost $60 to $80 because people are willing to pay $60 to $80 and that really is all there is to it.
 
Quix said:
Technically all bars can't show any TV unless they're paying for public exhibition rights (which I've never heard of one doing). This is just something that's not enforced. Is is right or wrong? Dunno.
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This is what I was thinking. The ability to enforce their terms of service and the willingness to do so are two distinct matters that are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Some terms of service may not be legally enforceable while others may be, but the rights holder simply doesn't care to push the issue.
 
MrCaffeineX said:
This is what I was thinking. The ability to enforce their terms of service and the willingness to do so are two distinct matters that are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Some terms of service may not be legally enforceable while others may be, but the rights holder simply doesn't care to push the issue.
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No, the guy you quoted is wrong. Anything that is broadcast free of charge can be shown free of charge.

And it doesn't matter how difficult a service agreement is to enforce, if a company begins to ignore known breaches of that agreement it becomes untenable in court. In order to maintain one's IP Rights one must protect them, if you don't, they will become forfeit.

That being said, they don't have to sue everyone, a cease and desist letter, request for compliance, etc can be enough. But if they just blow it off they are setting themselves up for a loss later on when they change their minds.
 
Why not just host a "after show" party where ppl come to talk about that week's show? (of course, "spoiler alert" required)
 
still have not watched 5 sec of that show. im i missing anything?
 
Ur_Mom said:
At the beginning of shows, and part of the contract you sign for the service, it mentions that you cannot show them for crowds or whatever. Personal use only... Something like that. You have to pay more for a commercial viewing.

Sucks nuts, though. Personally, I'd let it slide. It's something that brings in more viewers. I have watched 2 episodes of season 1 and wasn't impressed. I might go to a bar to watch it with other people, though, if I was there. Might get hooked if I saw some good parts...

But, legally, they have to do the official letter stuff. Lawyers have no feelings and no soul, so they have to do stuff like this.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same as you with S1. the show picks up big time after Season 1. Keep watching it is a good show.
 
NoOther said:
2) Screen cannot be greater than 55" and/or sound cannot be played on more than 4 loudspeakers.
3) You cannot charge admission to watch the game.
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What if you have multiple TVs? do they add up to that 55" number? Do the speakers need to be muted on other TVs if there are more than 4 of them?
 
sfsuphysics said:
What if you have multiple TVs? do they add up to that 55" number? Do the speakers need to be muted on other TVs if there are more than 4 of them?
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If you are in your own residence, you can have as many tvs and speakers as you want. This law is to prevent public viewing outside of homes without getting the proper rights.
 
MrCaffeineX said:
I didn't quite make it through the second episode of Season 1. Everyone at work talks about it constantly and they all assure me that it gets better, but that was almost two hours of my life I'll never get back.

.
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I was completely hooked by ep2. I'd say if you're not into it yet, it's probably not a show for you. Save your time and find something else.

I picked up Spartacus as a GoT alternative, and ended up liking it even more, even though the show got shitty reviews. Start with season 0 (which is actually the second season shown).
 
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