Hawaii Looks to Ban Loot Box Games

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FrgMstr

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Loot box games have drawn all sorts of ire lately, from the fairly innocuous to those that are basically pay-to-win types. State legislators from Hawaii have introduced two bills that would not allow minors, or even your adults under the age of 21 to purchase games with these loot box microtransactions in them. The thinking here is that this loot box type of feature encourages gambling and in fact causes an addiction to loot boxes. The other two bills require specific labeling as to the randomized purchasing system as well of probabilities of loot box hauls.

Check out the video.


Because of the popularity of the “Star Wars” brand among children — “Battlefront II” and “Overwatch” are rated T for teen by the Electronic Software Rating Board — online commentators have accused Electronic Arts and other publishers of exploiting children with psychologically manipulative practices to encourage them to gamble real money on virtual goods. “Whistleblowers have revealed that psychologists are employed to create these mechanisms,” Lee said.
 
I'm a bit torn on this.
At 18, you're an adult and can get credit cards in your own name. Why does it have to be 21? That's the age to drink. I guess it's also the age to legally gamble, but if someone can get a credit car and sign contracts at 18, they should be able to spend their credit/money however they want to. If loot boxes were classified as gambling, then they would be outlawed in many areas that don't permit online gambling. Not really a bad thing, but I don't think it's at that level.
 
I won't be happy if they go away in Overwatch. I'm sure all the DLC (maps and heroes) are free because people pay for loot boxes. Since they are only skin I can easily ignore them myself.

Battlefront 2 is inexcusable though.
 
Loot boxes are pretty much bullshit. Instead of buying an item you want, it's locked behind RNG so that you have to continuously pay for it regardless of that chance of obtaining said item. It's just a way to scam more money out of gamers, and I don't know why so many people are comfortable with this developer relationship. Yes we bitch about it, but we're a fairly hardcore pc enthusiast forum so what else would you expect. However the numbers don't lie, and people LOVE BUYING LOOT BOXES.

I don't mind the post release monetization by purchasing cosmetic items and the like, and feel that it's a great way for studios to maintain payroll between title releases. The gambling aspect of the loot boxes is really where the issue remains, and hopefully one day we'll see it routed out.
 
EA, other loot box companies- you can run but you can’t hide. Someone I know who works in the industry told me the not really a secret part about how they use psychological chicanery to get people addicted to opening crates/boxes/packs or whatever. You reap what you sow.
 
Gigus Fire said:
I'm a bit torn on this.
At 18, you're an adult and can get credit cards in your own name. Why does it have to be 21? That's the age to drink. I guess it's also the age to legally gamble, but if someone can get a credit car and sign contracts at 18, they should be able to spend their credit/money however they want to. If loot boxes were classified as gambling, then they would be outlawed in many areas that don't permit online gambling. Not really a bad thing, but I don't think it's at that level.
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I think there's a difference between purely cosmetic items versus "pay to win". The second could easily be considered a form of gambling. The first is more questionable.

I do agree that the odds for each rarity should be published in any case.
 
I can't understand why people pay for this stuff - but we all know they do (see recent activision/blizzard earnings). I have zero problems with a company selling a cool skin as a way to generate more cash - and I've even purchased a few here and there for a few bucks a piece on a character I really like.

But I have ZERO urge to pay actual money for a RNG loot box. The idea is as old as buying packs of Magic cards - something I know people do all the time, but I simply could never wrap my head around. Pay $x get y - makes sense. Pay $x get ? - makes no sense...
 
Gigus Fire said:
I'm a bit torn on this.
At 18, you're an adult and can get credit cards in your own name. Why does it have to be 21? That's the age to drink. I guess it's also the age to legally gamble, but if someone can get a credit car and sign contracts at 18, they should be able to spend their credit/money however they want to. If loot boxes were classified as gambling, then they would be outlawed in many areas that don't permit online gambling. Not really a bad thing, but I don't think it's at that level.
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You are old enough that you can go die for your country, but you're not allowed to drink or buy loot boxes!

I'm torn for a different reason, I'm not 100% sure the Govt should be regulating this. It wasn't that long ago sections of the Govt said video games turned us into killers. I really don't like a big brother determining if I'm not capable of resisting the urge to spend my paycheck on something. Not many children under 18 are going to be rocking their own credit card or spending all their eating money on loot boxes, so it's really about making decisions for people in the 18-20 bracket.
 
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gamerk2 said:
I think there's a difference between purely cosmetic items versus "pay to win". The second could easily be considered a form of gambling. The first is more questionable.

I do agree that the odds for each rarity should be published in any case.
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I think in addition that the items people want should be purchasable straight away. There's no need for random crap when you pay for stuff. It's one thing if it's a .25$ capsule machine. It's another thing when it's 50$ for a bunch of random shit and you don't get what you were looking for.
Imaging going to a car dealership and buying a car, but what you get is random? That would never fly. It's only acceptable when it's throw away money. When people spend thousands on random virtual crap, it's no longer acceptable. Hell, if they throw away more than the cost of the game itself that's no longer acceptable either.
 
This legislation seems debatable to me, but is in NO WAY a ban.

Incredibly misleading headline on this article. (n)
 
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I have no issue with lootboxes if all odds are displayed. Its black box loot boxes I believe SHOULD be regulated.
 
travisty said:
I'd love it if the Electronic Software Rating Board had to mark all games with loot box micro transactions as AO (Adult Only). That'd kill these off nice and quick.
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if i remember right, back when they started doing that for music, it actually had the opposite effect, and increased sales.
 
I am torn too on this. I hate anything MT and think it is a predatory practice the way they manipulate people into spending real money. But as a adult you have the right to spend and do as you like. A AO rating would be a good start with anything that has any form of MT. Recently a friend in FFXIV brought not one but both of the Carby mounts that cost $25 each. I face palmed so hard when I saw that. People like her need protection from themselves cause she is not really that well off to be dropping $50 on bs mounts. Hate to seem sexist but cosmetic stuff is proabably a huge hit with females. I see a lot of females and gays that make glamor in FFXIV to be some huge thing. True end game is glamor and such.
 
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These have been a thing in Star Trek Online and other low profile games for years, and nobody said anything. Now suddenly they need to do something about it? How lame.
 
katanaD said:
if i remember right, back when they started doing that for music, it actually had the opposite effect, and increased sales.
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The thing is AO games don't get carried at major retailers. Idk if Amazon would even carry them. Might make it harder for kids to buy them but no impossible. Still would hurt their bottom line.
 
Gigus Fire said:
I'm a bit torn on this.
At 18, you're an adult and can get credit cards in your own name. Why does it have to be 21? That's the age to drink. I guess it's also the age to legally gamble, but if someone can get a credit car and sign contracts at 18, they should be able to spend their credit/money however they want to. If loot boxes were classified as gambling, then they would be outlawed in many areas that don't permit online gambling. Not really a bad thing, but I don't think it's at that level.
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It most probably is due to the gambling nature of things... but then again isn't every one of those put in a coin and turn the crank to get a toy for kids essentially gambling too? and the answer to that question is absolutely yes it is.

That said I'd be curious how you could regulate this considering the vast majority of games are sold online and do not require a physical store to buy,
 
vegeta535 said:
People like her need protection from themselves
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That is the start of tyranny. People never need protection from themselves or from the consequences of their actions. (This INCLUDES parents who don't put in the effort to teach their children about such things.) If they get that, they never learn. If they never learn, they end up eating Tide pods as a "challenge." Stupid people are not bred. They are raised in conditions where their actions are limited to prevent them from having consequences of their stupid actions. Such things as "protecting them from themselves" only creates a situation where people get dumber and dumber, and suddenly we get generation after generation of people who can't freaking tie their shoes. Want to have stupid people? That's how you get stupid people.
 
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dgingeri said:
That is the start of tyranny. People never need protection from themselves or from the consequences of their actions. (This INCLUDES parents who don't put in the effort to teach their children about such things.) If they get that, they never learn. If they never learn, they end up eating Tide pods as a "challenge." Stupid people are not bred. They are raised in conditions where their actions are limited to prevent them from having consequences of their stupid actions. Such things as "protecting them from themselves" only creates a situation where people get dumber and dumber, and suddenly we get generation after generation of people who can't freaking tie their shoes. Want to have a dearth stupid people? That's how you get stupid people.
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I agree 100% with you.
 
dgingeri said:
That is the start of tyranny. People never need protection from themselves or from the consequences of their actions. (This INCLUDES parents who don't put in the effort to teach their children about such things.) If they get that, they never learn. If they never learn, they end up eating Tide pods as a "challenge." Stupid people are not bred. They are raised in conditions where their actions are limited to prevent them from having consequences of their stupid actions. Such things as "protecting them from themselves" only creates a situation where people get dumber and dumber, and suddenly we get generation after generation of people who can't freaking tie their shoes. Want to have a dearth stupid people? That's how you get stupid people.
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A dearth is small amount. So yes, I would like to have a dearth of stupid people.;)

But I think you're confusing intelligence and wisdom. Children -- especially young children -- absolutely need to be protected from themselves, irrespective of intelligence (though I agree it is possible to take things much too far).
 
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dgingeri said:
That is the start of tyranny. People never need protection from themselves or from the consequences of their actions. (This INCLUDES parents who don't put in the effort to teach their children about such things.) If they get that, they never learn. If they never learn, they end up eating Tide pods as a "challenge." Stupid people are not bred. They are raised in conditions where their actions are limited to prevent them from having consequences of their stupid actions. Such things as "protecting them from themselves" only creates a situation where people get dumber and dumber, and suddenly we get generation after generation of people who can't freaking tie their shoes. Want to have a dearth stupid people? That's how you get stupid people.
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I agree with you mostly. The part I disagree with is they are actually bred because when stupid people have kids and raise them with the same ideals of being stupid there is no correcting that cycle. Stupidity is learned, mental defectiveness is genetic and cannot be helped but people being dumb and not correcting the problem is whole part of the process. That's why people need to teach their kids about right and wrong and making good choice WHILE they are young.
 
I tried to ban razer scooters at school once because they caused so many medical incidents and a few collisions with cars.... Now stupid kids ride Rip Sticks into cars instead....

Fight the wave and you might be swept out to sea.

I just avoid games that survive on micro instead of content or substance
 
Gigus Fire said:
I'm a bit torn on this.
At 18, you're an adult and can get credit cards in your own name. Why does it have to be 21? That's the age to drink. I guess it's also the age to legally gamble, but if someone can get a credit car and sign contracts at 18, they should be able to spend their credit/money however they want to. If loot boxes were classified as gambling, then they would be outlawed in many areas that don't permit online gambling. Not really a bad thing, but I don't think it's at that level.
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Some state do let you at the age 18 year old to gambling so it really depend on where your at like usually it mostly just pari-mutuel, bingo, horse racing even poker and a few state it all above the day you turn 18.
Complete Guide to USA Casino Gambling
 
Are they going to ban baseball card packs, comic card packs, magic card packs, and Pokemon card packs as well? Same premise. Also, with games like Overwatch you get loot boxes for free upon leveling and they only include cosmetics. If someone wants to buy more loot boxes on their own accord then so be it.
 
Good, I completely agree with this. You buy a game and you should be able to use all its features and complete all plots without having to pay more !!
 
SomeoneElse said:
I agree with you mostly. The part I disagree with is they are actually bred because when stupid people have kids and raise them with the same ideals of being stupid there is no correcting that cycle. Stupidity is learned, mental defectiveness is genetic and cannot be helped but people being dumb and not correcting the problem is whole part of the process. That's why people need to teach their kids about right and wrong and making good choice WHILE they are young.
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I've known plenty of people with mental handicaps who are FAR smarter than some who simply refuse to use their brains.
 
bugleyman said:
A dearth is small amount. So yes, I would like to have a dearth of stupid people.;)

But I think you're confusing intelligence and wisdom. Children -- especially young children -- absolutely need to be protected from themselves, irrespective of intelligence (though I agree it is possible to take things much too far).
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Thanks. Got words mixed up. Happens sometimes. My talents are not necessarily in the realm of language or writing.
 
Rahh said:
Are they going to ban baseball card packs, comic card packs, magic card packs, and Pokemon card packs as well? Same premise.
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Can one sell or trade loot box content? Is one the sole owner of the loot box content and it can't be taken from them by a ban, server shutdown, game support end? Is the content of the loot box of known and constant quantity and quality?
 
So I'm in the camp that I agree something needs to be done, but a government ban is too much. As was mentioned earlier, Force any game with these to be labled AO. As mentioned that would stop this trend far quicker as companies dread the AO rating as that is a sales killer.
 
Definitely gambling. I"ve seen some online games where opening a box sounds like you're playing a slot machine.
 
My only problem with this is the same as some others... Either you are an adult at 18 and the maximum restriction age allowed to be set by any government is 18, or it's 21 and that becomes the age for voting and everything else... Oh, and that age also would be required to be the age to start filing taxes as well. I really have yet to figure out how someone hasn't managed to fight (and win) minors paying taxes on a constitutional basis yet.
 
Honestly how is this really any different than gambling your money awayaat Chuck E cheese or that damn machine that eats my money.

But honestly loot boxes have to go they just ruin the game. That's why I don't buy games like battlefront 2. I still like original.
 
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