Have Next-Gen Consoles Finally Caught up?

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heatthegreat

Limp Gawd
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I dunno if there is another thread on this, if there, then lock this one up and I apologize.

After seeing video reviews of the current next gen launch titles and hearing they are running at 1080p on PS4 ( not that upscaled crap) and at 720p on XB1, these games look pretty good. The reason why I don't console game was because of the claustrophobia I felt when I played FPS at such a terrible res or any other game for that manner. I know FOV is still an issue probably, but did the games catch up? NBA 2K14 and Killzone look damn good, maybe not as good as farcry 3 max settings or BF3/4, but I dunno, am I the only one who sees potential, especially since these are launch titles and companies like naughty dog haven't gotten their paws on it? A new Uncharted or The Last of Us could look spectacular. I'm a PC gamer to the fullest, and I'm not buying a new console anytime soon, but this has to be good for the PC community as we will finally get better looking ports. Just my 2 cents.
 
In my opinion, they have not caught up, nor will they at any time in the future. Consoles may always be a step behind due to hardware alone.

I don't mean this as a knock against consoles, however. I had a 360 for years (now retired because it was a gen 1 with no HDMI or wireless, too much hassle to set up) and still game on my PS3, and I thoroughly enjoy(ed) both.

Where consoles DO have an advantage, however, is with their strength of optimization. One standard platform for a game makes it so much easier for devs to squeeze every ounce of power out of the system.

I mean, just take a look at how good some of the current gen games look considering just how weak current gen console hardware is. The tech is like, what, more than 10 years old. Pretty impressive in my opinion.

All this being said, I believe a PC with mid-high range hardware (relative to what is currently available at that time) will be able to outperform and look better than a console.

My .02
 
As an owner of an X360 and a Wii U, both with tons of games each, I have to say a solid "nope". The settings even on the PS4/XB1 are far lower despite some titles having 720p/1080p native resolutions, while framerates are generally lower as well at 30fps or 60fps. I ran 2560x1600 60hz from late 2008-mid-2013, and have been running 2560x1440 110hz from then on. While I am glad to see the baseline being raised a little with the new console launches, even they are in no way are up to par with a good gaming PC at this point in time still. However, I know we'll see a huge amount of good things for both console and pc gamers as a result, and that's a win for everyone.
 
As far as the graphics and computing power, not even close. They are still equivalent to a low end gaming PC. The games are highly optimized, so it makes up for some of their lack of hardware. My machine I built 2 years ago in my sig is still lightyears ahead of one.

That being said, they at least have raised the minimum standard and are really well designed gaming machines.
 
I wished they went with dedicated CPU and GPU design instead of APU, there's only so many transistors you can cramp into a single chip. I don't think APU will give it the performance longevity it needs if they are planning on a 8-10 years cycle.

I've saw someone streaming Killzone on PS4. It looks great when compared to previous gen consoles, but certainly not something I'd want to be stuck with for the next 8-10 years
 
Hornet said:
I've saw someone streaming Killzone on PS4. It looks great when compared to previous gen consoles, but certainly not something I'd want to be stuck with for the next 8-10 years
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Can't really assume that with launch titles though. Look at the difference between Uncharted 2/God of War 3 and Resistance: Fall of Man. It's like night and day.

Killzone will be the baseline for most first-party exclusives, so look forward to much better graphics in the future.
 
heatthegreat said:
I dunno if there is another thread on this, if there, then lock this one up and I apologize.

After seeing video reviews of the current next gen launch titles and hearing they are running at 1080p on PS4 ( not that upscaled crap) and at 720p on XB1, these games look pretty good. The reason why I don't console game was because of the claustrophobia I felt when I played FPS at such a terrible res or any other game for that manner. I know FOV is still an issue probably, but did the games catch up? NBA 2K14 and Killzone look damn good, maybe not as good as farcry 3 max settings or BF3/4, but I dunno, am I the only one who sees potential, especially since these are launch titles and companies like naughty dog haven't gotten their paws on it? A new Uncharted or The Last of Us could look spectacular. I'm a PC gamer to the fullest, and I'm not buying a new console anytime soon, but this has to be good for the PC community as we will finally get better looking ports. Just my 2 cents.
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Depends on what you game on. Caught up to my system? Not even close. Caught up to gaming at beautiful 1440p, not even close. It may have "caught up" to pc gaming in 2010.
 
Not at all, its all about the games.

Look at the release line up of the consoles, its terrible, hardly any games to play. Now look at the PC games line up. 30 years of games on demand. Id say there is no comparison now that consoles have no BC.

@the OP

The new consoles are only playing games in 1080p (particularly the PS4, XBone cant), only because games are still designed with current gen consoles in mind. Once true next gen games start coming out, PS4 will be struggling to achieve 1080p too. Infact PS4 already struggles with BF4 and BF4 isnt even a next gen games since its designed with current consoles in mind.

Once true next gen games are out, i wouldnt be surprised to see consoles back to 720p or below.
 
As I understand it, it's basically the same chip in both systems. How difficult would it be for AMD to perform a die-shrink on the APU to make processing faster and add extra shader units to make the graphics faster? So in 3 years MS would launch a XBox1+ and Sony a PS4+
 
At least we will have a better console games ported to PC due to better Console HW. I am happy.
 
AceCR42 said:
Can't really assume that with launch titles though. Look at the difference between Uncharted 2/God of War 3 and Resistance: Fall of Man. It's like night and day.

Killzone will be the baseline for most first-party exclusives, so look forward to much better graphics in the future.
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That is because Uncharted 2 used the extra hardware in the PS3 that alot of devs didn't use. That doesn't exist in the PS4.
 
They are closer but the flexibility of PCs probably keeps them ahead by a healthy margin ... the big variable is 4K ... if the TV consumer adopts faster than the PC community then 4K resolutions could give console gaming a leg up for the first time

Personally though I think that these x86 consoles will ultimately kill off the dedicated console market ... with x86 architecture there is really no reason that low cost HTPCs couldn't replace the consoles ... especially since by the time the next console refresh time is near in about 10 years we will probably be 100% digital delivery ... with no physical media and with the same overall hardware as a PC, there is really no reason to have a dedicated and proprietary console at that point
 
jmilcher said:
It may have "caught up" to pc gaming in 2010.
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This. PCs are a continually moving target. Due to their nature consoles can never really catch up. During their product lifecycle consoles may arguably approach better bang for buck at the low end, but they can't package a box that will beat a decent mid or high end PC at a mass-market price. The moment a console launches, its hardware specs are frozen in time and it starts lagging further and further behind. Steambox may bridge the gap, if they can create a modular upgradeable console with components somehow cheaper than an equivalent PC. The only reason some console titles look even lose to PC is that consoles are the primary target for many developers.
 
Hardware, absolutely not and never will. They have now launched a screenshot for the next 7-10 years,imagine where PC GPUs etc will be in just 2 years.
 
Why does everyone think that console games will magically get better? These consoles are the closest to PC that they've ever been and the only unique part of it is the OS itself. It may get slightly better but not as big as you think, this generation doesnt have difficult hardware to program for like last gen.

"Optimization" is a silly word that keeps getting thrown around in the console world; they basically max out the game and turn down effects/resolution until it runs at an acceptable fps between 30 and 60. Sounds more like crippling the game doesnt it?
 
Shit, there's more games I'd rather play on a PC than either the Xbox One or PS4, and it'll stay that way for a long time. A lot of the better games that have come out on the Xbox 360 and PS3 were also available on the PC, and the PC still has exclusives like Sim City (I enjoy it even if it has some major issues), and a much stronger independant market. And this is all without taking hardware or power into account.
 
I think with the PS4/Xbox1 that is has caught up to modern day but the AA and AF still are horrible and the jaggies are so annoying BUT still looks pretty damn good

Downside is though that these consoles will last 10 years or so and they will improve for the next few years on how to make the games look better but with the way tech is coming out, they will be behind yet again in a few years.
 
Lames. said:
I think with the PS4/Xbox1 that is has caught up to modern day but the AA and AF still are horrible and the jaggies are so annoying BUT still looks pretty damn good

720p and sub 1080p is caught up to you? Plus some games are unable to hit the 60fps mark?


Downside is though that these consoles will last 10 years or so and they will improve for the next few years on how to make the games look better but with the way tech is coming out, they will be behind yet again in a few years.
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It will not improve as much as you think, but im hoping when mantle releases it will change the ecosystem of consoles and PCs
 
Domini said:
It will not improve as much as you think, but im hoping when mantle releases it will change the ecosystem of consoles and PCs
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I think it will simply because the new consoles are all using basic PC architecture, broadly speaking. No more proprietary Cell hardware and things like that. It's a straight shoot across all the platforms.

The days of bad ports and such *should* be over with or on their way to being finished and the lowest common denominator bar has been raised. That's good news for PC gamers regardless of anything else.
 
Q-BZ said:
I think it will simply because the new consoles are all using basic PC architecture, broadly speaking. No more proprietary Cell hardware and things like that. It's a straight shoot across all the platforms.

The days of bad ports and such *should* be over with or on their way to being finished and the lowest common denominator bar has been raised. That's good news for PC gamers regardless of anything else.
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You are correct, but most developers are already familar with this hardware and x86 instructions. Doesnt that mean they would max the hardware much more quickly if not already?
 
kbrickley said:
They are closer but the flexibility of PCs probably keeps them ahead by a healthy margin ... the big variable is 4K ... if the TV consumer adopts faster than the PC community then 4K resolutions could give console gaming a leg up for the first time
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How? The current-generation consoles struggle to do 1080p and 60 fps at the detail levels they're achieving, with some titles settling for 900p.

The PC is going to be the only platform to be able to make effective use of 4K displays, and will be the only platform to be able to do so for the next eight to ten years or so.
 
Domini said:
You are correct, but most developers are already familar with this hardware and x86 instructions.

Doesnt that mean they would max the hardware much more quickly if not already?
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Remains to be seen. In theory the answer to your question *should be* yes although typically the first year or so on a new game console is basically "last gen 1.5" and then after that first year or so you start seeing what's what with that platform and what it can really do.

The PC has been and will continue to stay well ahead of that curve.
 
Q-BZ said:
Remains to be seen. In theory the answer to your question *should be* yes although typically the first year or so on a new game console is basically "last gen 1.5" and then after that first year or so you start seeing what's what with that platform and what it can really do.

The PC has been and will continue to stay well ahead of that curve.
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Hell, free game mods and more frequent game sales alone make PC gaming very attractive.
 
Most launch game are struggling to keep 1080p 30FPS, Lot's are 900p 60FPS.

Btw check the latest screenshots, there's no AF AT ALL in Ryse, Forza etc..

Imho if i can play BF4 multiplayer in 1080p 60fps with a 660ti, only 2xMSAA but both next gen version are using no aa so my system is already more powerful. NFS Rival is 1080p, but only 30FPS locked (so is the PC version), quite a few are 720p on Xbox One.

Personally i'am going 2560x1440 in the next 2 months, so i'am moving away from 1080p.

Killzone look very good on PS4, but i wish there was a MOTION BLUR scale, because it hurt my head because they are so much of it (console kiddies seems to like it).. that's why i love PC gaming.. i can adjust things like this to my liking)
 
heatthegreat said:
I dunno if there is another thread on this, if there, then lock this one up and I apologize.

After seeing video reviews of the current next gen launch titles and hearing they are running at 1080p on PS4 ( not that upscaled crap) and at 720p on XB1, these games look pretty good. The reason why I don't console game was because of the claustrophobia I felt when I played FPS at such a terrible res or any other game for that manner. I know FOV is still an issue probably, but did the games catch up? NBA 2K14 and Killzone look damn good, maybe not as good as farcry 3 max settings or BF3/4, but I dunno, am I the only one who sees potential, especially since these are launch titles and companies like naughty dog haven't gotten their paws on it? A new Uncharted or The Last of Us could look spectacular. I'm a PC gamer to the fullest, and I'm not buying a new console anytime soon, but this has to be good for the PC community as we will finally get better looking ports. Just my 2 cents.
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Considering we were just given a $500 videocard (290x) that can run games well at 4k resolution, I would say no.
 
Ryoohki360 said:
Btw check the latest screenshots, there's no AF AT ALL in Ryse, Forza etc..
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Does it make a real difference? On a PC you're typically playing on a 24" monitor at a distance of 2-3 feet; on a console you're typically playing on a 42"-65" TV at a distance of 10-15 feet. The PC game graphics need to be higher quality.
 
To a certain degree, I suppose, but no having no anisotropic filtering on a 65" display from ten feet is going to be about as noticeable as no anisotropic filtering on a 23" display from three. Mip transitions on isotropic surfaces are a pretty harsh artifact and not easily ignored when you're accustomed to much cleaner filtering.
 
Quartz-1 said:
Does it make a real difference? On a PC you're typically playing on a 24" monitor at a distance of 2-3 feet; on a console you're typically playing on a 42"-65" TV at a distance of 10-15 feet. The PC game graphics need to be higher quality.
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No AF looks like crap on my 1080p 84" projector setup. Just as obvious as on a pc.
 
AF look just as bad on a 50' @ 10 feet, I had a PC plugged on my TV as well as an Xbox 360 and I could clearly see it. Same with upscaling, many current gen console use it and its soft. Even the ryse 50mbits video are soft from the upconvert. People say it look awesome because they don't know better but after checking 2 of them it was MEH, those people clearly never tried Crysis 3 at 1080p ..
 
I love my desktop PC, but I have to say that Console's surpassed PC's with the release of PS3 and Xbox 360. The gap will only widen now.
Yes in 2 years Desktop PC's will be more powerful than today, but that is one sided look into things.
Most people buy a gaming pc and use it 3-4 years, some people try to extend the life by upgrading the video card or CPU for another $300 but still get bottlenecked by memory or something else. Very few people spend $2000+ on a computer every year and manage to play all titles, at 2560x1600 resolution at 60fps+ with Ultragraphics on everything.

With a console, you buy one and you are pretty much set for the next 7-8 years. None of your friends will be ahead of you in hardware or fps and all the game manufacturers has to obey the limitations of the hardware that you have purchased.
It is all fair game for multiplayer as well. So yeah, very powerfukk computers which cost a lot of money and can play games using graphics settings that look better than consoles, but for a short period of time. Sometimes as short as 6 months.

Example: 2 years ago I built a system i72600k 16gig ram Radeon 6970. A year later I swapped the graphics card to a GTX 680, 6 months ago, I added a second GTX 680. Currently I am running a 1440p screen and at max settings this computer is tapped out. Within 6 months I am going to have to start trimming down my graphics settings. By the time Starcitizen is released next year, I am probably going to need to buy a 6 core 5th gen intel cpu and whatever is the newest graphics card and another 16 gigs of ram, which is pretty much another $1200 or so.

This is how I am keeping up with the console players playing everything at max ( console) details for 7 years for the original investment of $399?
 
When max details on the console equates to low details on the PC, you aren't just "keeping up": you're far surpassing. The idea that you should have to spend money on new hardware to surpass existing hardware over time should really come as no surprise.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if all future games eventually get optimized to at least 1080p 60fps, might be lower textures or whatever, but they do surprisingly well at learning a consoles intimates overtime.
 
Andyk5 said:
Example: 2 years ago I built a system i72600k 16gig ram Radeon 6970. A year later I swapped the graphics card to a GTX 680, 6 months ago, I added a second GTX 680. Currently I am running a 1440p screen and at max settings this computer is tapped out. Within 6 months I am going to have to start trimming down my graphics settings. By the time Starcitizen is released next year, I am probably going to need to buy a 6 core 5th gen intel cpu and whatever is the newest graphics card and another 16 gigs of ram, which is pretty much another $1200 or so.
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Which neither console will ever be able to do.
 
Console games have their place. I mostly play PC ONLY now, if I want to play a kart-racing game, split-screen, I run Sonic Transformed on my media centre and play a few laps with my wife.
 
The XBone is still 720p, the PS4 does 1080p barely in some games and 720p in the rest, I am going to say it is a resounding NO! on them catching up.
 
I'm going to make a bold prediction. This will be the first generation of consoles with accepted hardware upgrades. I'm not talking things like disk drives or a RAM upgrade. I mean, I fully expect there to be the PS 4.1 a few years down the line that will be faster than the PS4 (both CPU + GPU wise). (It will just claim the ability to run PS4 games in 4k or something like that at first).

Consoles this generation just started way too far back as has already been stated.
 
With 4K display coming up, I wonder how the new consoles will keep up with this new format. I mean, we shouldn't even be hearing about 720p anymore. Wouldn't displaying 720p on a 4K TV looks like playing the Playstation 2 on a HDTV?

I've tried that PS2 on HDTV thing, it looks horrible, there's no way to mask the low res edges in a digital display.
 
Andyk5 said:
I love my desktop PC, but I have to say that Console's surpassed PC's with the release of PS3 and Xbox 360. The gap will only widen now.
Yes in 2 years Desktop PC's will be more powerful than today, but that is one sided look into things.

With a console, you buy one and you are pretty much set for the next 7-8 years. None of your friends will be ahead of you in hardware or fps and all the game manufacturers has to obey the limitations of the hardware that you have purchased.
It is all fair game for multiplayer as well. So yeah, very powerfukk computers which cost a lot of money and can play games using graphics settings that look better than consoles, but for a short period of time. Sometimes as short as 6 months.


This is how I am keeping up with the console players playing everything at max ( console) details for 7 years for the original investment of $399?
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Wait, so you're saying a neutered 7800GTX card surpassed everything the PC has come out with the past 7-8 years!? Are you in an alternate reality? Because that's not what's happened here. In fact as far back as when the X360 launched you could buy video cards that did basically the same thing for not much more, and another generation of card later like the 8800GT 512mb you could get for $299 which was faster by a large margin, and it only continued from there ;).

Yeah, with a console you buy one and are stuck on the same low settings for 7-8 years. You can do the same with a PC... it's not like it automatically downgrades as soon as something new comes out and stops working. Your machine still stays able to do the same things it always was able to do, and it'll still look better than a console while doing it. Perhaps you throw in a video card after 3-4 years for another $100-150 if you want to keep the settings higher but then you're still pretty much fine from there on.

You aren't "keeping up" with consoles by spending thousands, you're far outpacing them. That's your choice if you want to, but don't misunderstand what you're actually doing :p .

Nytegard said:
I'm going to make a bold prediction. This will be the first generation of consoles with accepted hardware upgrades. I'm not talking things like disk drives or a RAM upgrade. I mean, I fully expect there to be the PS 4.1 a few years down the line that will be faster than the PS4 (both CPU + GPU wise). (It will just claim the ability to run PS4 games in 4k or something like that at first).

Consoles this generation just started way too far back as has already been stated.
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That would be interesting, but I don't know how many games would have come out that would get patched to enable a higher resolution for that sort of thing :(, which would limit its appeal at that point I'd think. Still very possible anyway.

By the way, I'm jealous of your sig rig... 1mhz!!! That's like 1,000 khz, that's BLAZING! :)
 
GoldenTiger said:
That would be interesting, but I don't know how many games would have come out that would get patched to enable a higher resolution for that sort of thing :(, which would limit its appeal at that point I'd think. Still very possible anyway.

By the way, I'm jealous of your sig rig... 1mhz!!! That's like 1,000 khz, that's BLAZING! :)
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Why thank you. It is a blazing beast of a computer.

As for games, it really wouldn't be too difficult to patch a game. The vast majority of 3D games themselves don't work in screen coordinates (i.e. 1920x1080). That's just how to describe the geometry to the user. So, a quick check of the bios would allow the game to choose what display resolution to use It literally would take under 2 minutes to write a patch for a game.

The reason for not doing this in the past was to prevent segmentation of the user base. Even the Xbox 360 later models underclocked their newer gen hardware to stay 100% compatible. But looking at a 10 year life cycle, I just think this is going to have to break. The games themselves might stay the same at first, but enhanced editions will come out until the original PS4s are rendered obsolete. Once again, take the Xbox 360. The initial versions had no hard drive included, but many games now require hard drive installs. Sure, it's not the same thing as a CPU/GPU upgrade, but it's a step into ingratiating users to accept multiple hardware steps.
 
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