Have crappy loser 1700X, options for a change?

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by dgingeri, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    OK, so I have a crappy loser of a 1700X. (Running on a Asus Prime X370-Pro motherboard, if that matters.)

    For starters, I can't get the memory above the setting for 2933, with an actual running speed of 2888. (Motherboard runs slow as well, main clock fluctuates between 98.1 and 98.8.) This is using Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200 memory, which I was told initially was good for 3200 on Ryzen. I have tried a friend's Gskill that runs 3200 on his machine, as well as another friend's LPX set that runs 3200 on his machine just fine. So, I know it is not the memory.

    Also, set to default clocks, it never turbos up past 3.6Ghz, even if it is just running one thread. I have it overclocked to the best I can get, which is 3.7GHz at 1.375V set in the bios, actually running about 1.40 to 1.408V, according to monitoring tools. With this speed, my cooler (Corsair H110i GT) keeps the chip at a nice, cool 57C at full bore on all 8 cores, so cooling is definitely not the issue.

    In essence, I severely lost the silicon lottery in buying this chip. It is crap. I hope I can get $200 for it once I figure out what to get for a replacement.

    So, I have three options, as I can see:

    1. Wait for the new chip release and get a new X470 board and 2700X, costing around $750. Not my preferred, as it has a heavy cost, but a possibility. Is it worth the money? Current leaked benchmarks say 'maybe'. With selling the current board and 1700X for about $300, that leaves expenditure at $450, and I get some advancement, and likely not having to get a new CPU for another 2 years, and maybe longer. The bigger downside is waiting another month for it. I'm not the most patient person.

    2. Get a 1600X from Microcenter for $180. It has fewer cores, but higher base clock speeds, which would be better for the games I play, WoW, Diablo 3, SC2, and STO. (Yes, perhaps I am a Blizzard fan.) I'm not sure of the 1600X track record for running memory at 3200, so I'm not sure on this one. One friend recommended this option to me, but I'm not sure. However, there is the advantage of, if I can sell the old chip for $200, I wind up about $80 behind. (I paid $280 for the 1700X.)

    3. Get a 1800X from Microcenter, which is down to $280 as of today. My other friend recommended this option. $280 is pretty steep for just getting a new chip of the same generation, and likely only about a 5-10% increase in speed in my games. With selling the 1700X for $200, if possible, it leaves me behind by $160.

    4. Go back to my old Core i7 5930k. It's fast, but behind the times, and now with the Spectre and Meltdown bug mitigation, slightly slower than the current 1700X in most of my games, even running at 4.6GHz, but slightly faster in STO. My X99 motherboard doesn't have on-board USB 3.1, the audio sucks, and I have to use a card adapter for my 960 Pro SSD, so with this board, I am using every single slot. I am currently using it for my Hyper-V server, so I'd have to put my 1700X into that duty. No expenditure, but also a step backwards.

    What do you guys think? What would you do in my place?
     
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  2. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Try talking to AMD about it if it's not reaching advertised boost speeds when kept cool enough. Odds are they may do a one time RMA for you.
     
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  3. Jayy88

    Jayy88 [H]Lite

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    You go back to Team Blue man, hard to convince me ever again after Bulldozer...but I don't know they say it's nice.
     
  4. vegeta535

    vegeta535 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why get a new MB. People keep touting how great AMD is for backwards compatible and you going to run and get a new board?!?
     
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  5. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, I understand about Bulldozer. I thought it would be great, too, and then they failed me.

    However, now the Ryzen has so many cores! I know we don't use them now, but I'm sure games will come along that will. I do use that many cores, though, as I have Linux VMs that I keep running while I game under the main OS, Win10. So 8 cores is nice.
     
  6. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    Well, if I'm going to go for a new processor, I may as well go for a motherboard that will handle it, and fix several of the things that have been annoying me about my current one.
     
  7. Derfnofred

    Derfnofred Gawd

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    Honest question: is this the concerns of someone who "wants the best and the best alone" or are you *actually* missing out on performance?

    Because that's an awfully huge cash outlay for what will be nominally a very modest upgrade.
     
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  8. toddw

    toddw [H]ard|Gawd

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    As someone who also lost the silicon lottery with my 2500K, I say keep it and deal, but that's probably not what you're going to do so.....

    Sell it NOW, this week. Use the 5930K for the next month.

    Then grab a Ryzen 2 and a better B450/X470 MB next month. No way would I go blue or same gen Ryzen with Ryzen 2 so close to launch. At the very least you owe it to yourself to see the [H] review so you can make a better decision.
     
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  9. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
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  10. Gasaraki_

    Gasaraki_ Gawd

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    Why don't you just wait for a BIOS update for the new 2700X microcodes for your motherboard and then buy the 2700X? It's only going to cost you ~$360?
     
  11. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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  12. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Stop sweating the small stuff.




    Advice I should follow myself sometimes.
     
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  13. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    I do actually see issues with WoW and STO. At times, usually when I first enter and area with a lot of players around, I see dips in my frame rate down to 5-10 fps. It gets really annoying to fly over a wall toward a flight point, in WoW, and have my fps suddenly drop to make my character uncontrollable for just a bit, and then overfly the flight point, and have to come back, or to fly into a big battle area in STO and suddenly be unable to stop my ship, running right through the battle and beyond, to slow down and turn around to get into the fight. It does have a palpable impact on my game play. My 5930k didn't do either, but it also couldn't maintain 60fps while raiding or in a starship battle. In both of these cases, it is very definitely a CPU bound issue. A new GPU didn't/wouldn't make a difference. I have a GTX 980 Ti, and previously had the exact same issues with a GTX 680.
     
  14. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    If your friend has a different motherboard then your assessment on the memory is wrong.
    Some of the memory tuning work better in small steps. So when you are trying to configure it to 3200 don't boot into 3200 and don't use timings that are tight. try to boot from 2400 and see how well this goes.

    check this thread:

    Loose timings might get it up to 3200 but from the reddit thread it does not seem likely.
     
  15. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    Thanks for that info.

    It is quite annoying that this memory works just fine with other boards, but not the one I bought. I've always been a fan of both Corsair and Asus. I have bought GSkill memory in the past, including the DDR3-2400 2 motherboards ago, and the low latency DDR3-1600 the motherboard before that, but I decided to go with Corsair this time even though it was $10 more because I wanted it to run well and last a while. That decision bit me on the ass. Lucky me. For this, I am tempted to get a MSI motherboard next time.
     
  16. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    I'd either get the 1600X or go back to your 5930k in your shoes.

    I've noticed my X370 Prime Pro isn't anywhere near as good with memory compatibility as my B350-F Strix board. Even with G.Skill Flare X 3200 memory, I'm constantly fighting it to get decent speeds.
     
  17. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    Sounds like more reason to wait for the X470 boards and get one of those that behaves better.
     
  18. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    Maybe. But your CPU/MB are probably worth $325 now. Could off load, use the 5930k system, and then upgrade to x470/CPU when they release.

    I'm not sure a new CPU is going to fix a motherboard flaw (if there is one).
     
  19. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, but that would involve installing Windows 10 twice more, and at least the drivers and my games. That's a PITA just once. Twice in as many months would be annoying.
     
  20. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Not really sure why you tried to upgrade from the 5930K in the first place. All the comparisons I've seen have the 5930 on par or slightly better performance than the 1700x.

    Have you updated your Motherboard Bios?
     
  21. Woot910

    Woot910 n00bie

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    +1 for Motherboard BIOS update... have you done so? That would've probably been my 1st thing to try.
     
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  22. Nightfire

    Nightfire Gawd

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    This. I don't know why you think you need an expensive x370 mb to get a good overclock. Take advantage of the fact that AMD IS giving you a good overclockable mb for cheap. There are plenty of B-350/R5 1600 or R7 1700 owners getting 3.9ghz+. Meanwhile the Intel B-360 is still MIA....
     
  23. Nightfire

    Nightfire Gawd

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    Since we really don't know if it is the mb or cpu your best option would be:

    5.) sell your x470 and 1700x NOW. Get a B350 and 1600 fo equal or less price. Get by with 'only' 6 cores at 3.9 ghz until the first price drop of the 2700x (CFL 8 core release?) Upgrade your mb only if you are below 100 mhz than most of the x470/b450 owners.
     
  24. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    Early B350 boards had shitty VRMs compared to the X370. But my B350-F Strix board was fantastic. IMO worth the $40 savings over the X370 version.
     
  25. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why don't you try your 1700x in one of your friend's boards? I'd bet you have a flaky board given its not even turboing correctly, but doing that should help you determine exactly what's going on. B350 boards are good, x370 isn't really necessary unless you're shooting for high ocs under water or need more io.
     
  26. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    That's kind of a long story.

    When the Devil's Canyon chips first came out, I upgraded from a 3930k to a 4790k, but the motherboard I bought (Asus Z97 WS) was horrible. The first one I got had bad DIMM slots, and then so did the next two replacements. After a year of struggling with that horrible motherboard, I got a Maximus VII Hero to finally get something up and running, and that board died about a year ago. (I have been losing confidence in Asus because of this, and now having trouble with this X370 board. They're close to losing a customer permanently.)

    I bought the 1700X, motherboard, and memory to upgrade/replace that. However, I was very disappointed with the performance and overclocking of the 1700X in WoW, and since nobody had much experience with optimizing WoW with the Ryzen, I looked around for options. I wound up finding a great deal on the used 5930k and an MSI x99 board. I think it was $300 for both. My Ryzen became my Xenserver test/training rig. I used that for about 6 months until I heard about the speculative execution flaws, and found that my board and processor were going to be way late to the party for a fix. Couple that with the audio issues I have had with the MSI board, and I was kind of sick of that core. I decided to look up how to optimize WoW better for Ryzen and switch my main rig over to the Ryzen, leaving the 5930k for the VM training rig. It was then that I was reminded of how horrible this thing overclocks and the problems with the memory.

    It's been nearly 6 years since I've had a stable system. With my 3930k, the Gigabyte board I initially bought died a slow, horrible death by progressively losing power to the NIC and USB ports. The replacement, an Asus X79 Sabretooth, had major issues with audio (center channel was much quieter than the rest, making certain sounds drop out) as well as SSD performance (only 2 6Gb ports) issues. The Z97 WS had the memory issues I mentioned for about half the time I used it. The Maximus VII Hero worked perfectly until it just up and quit suddenly. Then the memory issues with the X370-Pro and the audio issues (channels randomly dropping out in the middle of playing) and onboard network (Killer NIC's just generally SUCK) with the MSI board. (I'm now using an addon 10Gb board on the VM host because the Killer NIC doesn't work with Xenserver.) I'm more than a little annoyed with the state of motherboard reliability these days. The past 6 years rivals the first 6 years I built my own machines back in the 486 and Pentium days. At least back then, if there was a problem with a component, it was usually on an addon card and could be replaced fairly cheaply with just swapping the one card. I miss the days where everything wasn't integrated. I don't miss the significant lack of information on those components, though.
     
  27. ccityinstaller

    ccityinstaller 2[H]4U

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    I have had zero issues running my G.Skill 3200C16D16GVKB (2x8GB 3200 16-18-18-1T) @ 2933 14-14-14-1T on my X 370 Pro with the latest January BIOS, and they use SK Hynix ICs. I can run the rated 3200 without an issue but the performance is better @ 2933 C14 vs 3200 C16. If you aren't using the latest BIOS, then I would suggest you give it a try.
     
  28. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    I'm NOT going for a B350 board. That chipset doesn't allow splitting the main 16 PCIe lanes, so I couldn't add an extra card if necessary later. That's too limiting. I had originally planned on getting a second GTX 980 Ti some day, but with the miners taking them all, the prices have soared far too much. Maybe later this year, or next year...
     
  29. ccityinstaller

    ccityinstaller 2[H]4U

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    Wow. I have never met someone with that kind of bad luck with HW. Perhaps you would be better off sticking to prebuilt systems so you don't run into all these issues. Not being a dick, but that is some serious bad luck.
     
  30. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Man, if I had a buck for every time I heard about somebody doing something like that because 'someday they might want SLI', I'd have enough to buy an extra x370 board (that I don't need). What's a 980ti go for in non-inflated crypto times, ~$300? So you can spend ~$450 on top (x370 vs b350, higher end psu, 2nd card) of your $300 980ti, or sell it for $300 and buy a $750 1080ti (or more likely the 2080 or whatever Volta is named) and put it in your b350 and get better game compatibility and added performance in a lot of games that don't have good sli scaling while using less power. I made the mistake of buying a someday board that I never ended up putting a 2nd card in and decided not to be stupid and do it again. I'd buy an x370 if I wanted to go for max oc on water, more than one m.2 drive, or if I were going straight to SLI, otherwise you're paying extra for stuff you're probably not going to use - and if someday you decide you have to have it, you can get a new, better board and sell the old one when that time comes and still be further ahead.
     
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  31. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    It's all been proven bad hardware from manufacturer defects (Asus Z97 WS, Asus Maximus VII Hero, Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4) and hardware/software incompatibilities (Asus X79 Sabretooth) or bad design decisions (MSI X99s). Generally, it has been bad luck, not any of my techniques in system building. I haven't killed a component in years. I do this professionally, and my employer trusts me with systems costing tens of thousands of dollars. I'm a sysadmin. I don't have bad luck like this with stuff at work, only with my personal systems. It's quite annoying.
     
  32. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, I thought about that, but right now 1080Tis, when they can be found for purchase, cost in excess of $1200. Either way, right now, I can't do anything of the sort. I still want the option to have that second slot, whether it is for a second video card, a 10Gb NIC, or a RAID controller. I do a lot more than just play games on my main system. I have over 50 VMs for various training purposes, and 5 of them are on my main system. Having additional hardware capabilities is necessary.
     
  33. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    980ti's are nuts, too, in the $450-$500 range. I don't think we're going to be in a situation where all of a sudden 980ti's are affordable and 1080ti's are going to be stratospheric, they'll move in lock step for the most part, maybe with the 1080ti moving a little before the 980ti.

    I still really don't think an x370 is necessary in your use case, the x4 slot will be fine for a NIC or RAID controller unless you're going super high end (in which case TR is probably a better platform), the use cases for an x370 aren't that large. It's your money, and I've been down that road, but I'd wait for the 4xx chipsets in any case.

    Did you try your 1700x in a different board like you did the ram? That'd at least let you know if it's the board or chip. I'm very happy with my Asus b350 board as it's handled everything I've thrown at it with outstanding stability - even if it took 2-3 months worth of bios updates for my hynix ram to get up to rated speed. I know there were some issues with their early x370 boards even if most of them go sorted after bios updates - you could have gotten a bad one. The turbo not working along with the ram incompatibility sounds like a board/bios issue, tbh, but that would clear it up.
     
  34. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    The turbo functions do work, just not up to advertised speeds. It'll only turbo up to 3.6 at most, according to CPU-Z and Ryzen Master. That's why I think it's the CPU and not the board, for that part at least. The memory is likely the board, the more I hear about problems with this particular model.

    I haven't tried it in another board because I don't want to inconvenience my friends too much. I was uncomfortable enough asking for help with the memory, and that's an easy component to swap. Swapping a CPU requires detaching the cooler and cleaning up the TIM, and then replacing the TIM when putting it back in. That's just too much to ask friends to do, IMO.
     
  35. ccityinstaller

    ccityinstaller 2[H]4U

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    Again, I was not implying that you were doing anything wrong, just the odds of having such a large number of issues in such a wide array of hardware is unheard of.
     
  36. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    Not totally unheard of.

    I once rolled triple 1s in Risk 36 times in a row. Lost 72 armies out of 75. The very next turn, when the target of my attack attacked back, I rolled double 1s on my defense and lost the territory. The odds of that series of rolls is several billion to 1, yet I managed it. I do indeed have horrible luck.
     
  37. BitMaster

    BitMaster Limp Gawd

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    I have that combo myself in the office, per se it does 4G, there is nothing prohibiting it but faulty devices and bad luck in the silicon lottery.

    Maybe try to RMA both, CPU + Mobo, I have done that too when it just wouldnt run properly. RMA the RAM too, maybe you are lucky.


    With that board and CPU, all you need is more Volts and it will go as far as the Lottery Luck will let you. I like that board, simple, stable, fast.


    Sad you have such bad luck
     
  38. buttons

    buttons [H]ard|Gawd

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    People are always dogging the bulldozer but i have two of them and they run just fine. In fact my main gaming rig is an FX-6300, 1080ti, oculus VR and no stutter or choppy framerates. Also, if you switch back to team blue dont expect it to be a magic fix either, because my i7-7700hq chugs big time on wow when there there is more then 10-15 players are around. My ryzen has much better hashrate so its only used for mining now
     
  39. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ Little Bitch

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    mine does 3.9 @3200mhz memory.

    same board too.

    not a champ but no slouch.

    i may try that linux thing up there to see if i can get newer silicon.

    it's a bug regardless.
     
  40. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    I think I'm going to go ahead and get the 2700k when it comes out, with a new board, and hope that it works with my memory. I'll offer up my current 1700X and Prime X370-Pro for $300 when that comes out in a month.
     
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