Haswell-E reveal: 8 Cores, DDR4, X99

Discussion in 'Intel Processors' started by phrozenfayte, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. The Cobra

    The Cobra 2[H]4U

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    I would venture to say you are looking at least $1,750 for the top end CPU (8 core) 16GB of DDR4 and a good motherboard.

    I am saving up as we speak.
     
  2. Sunin

    Sunin [H]ard|DCer of the Month - August 2008

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    Regardless worth waiting for as it should drive 4770k prices down :).
     
  3. Wildace

    Wildace [H]ardness Supreme

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    i want an 8 core, heres to hoping there is a sub $1k 8 core that is a K model

    i really want to move from my 8120 to an 8core intel but i dont think id be willing to ever spend 1k on a cpu.

    most ive ever spent on a cpu was for a Q6600 and i think it was around $330 or $350 not sure.

    id be willing to pay double that tho for an 8 core from intel.
     
  4. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It really comes down to the games and how they're coded. It's impossible to make a blanket statement that covers all games.
     
  5. atrance5

    atrance5 2[H]4U

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    Does me no good, I'm on 3770k.

    *shrugs*
     
  6. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I do not think it will have any effect on that. I mean I see the 6 core ~$1000 product going away with the 8 core ~$1000 product taking its place but will even the 6 core ~$600 product reduce its price.
     
  7. Sunin

    Sunin [H]ard|DCer of the Month - August 2008

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    Maybe the 4960x will drop to 600 or at least us 750 and make it viable for my next build

    Ok maybe I'll save up for the 8 cores drool
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  8. lutjens

    lutjens Gawd

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    [begin sarcasm]
    Considering how the 6 core is new, cutting edge, ultra modern technology, Intel should just stack any potential 8 core chip on top of its 6 core. After all, few games and applications take advantage of more than 4 cores, so 6 cores are total, complete, insane, unequivocal, pure and abject overkill. Intel is doing us an enormous favor and service by even considering to give us mere enthusiasts one of their beloved 8 cores. Why should they sell us an 8 core for a mere $999 when enterprise clients will gladly pay over $2k for them? Since Intel is doing us the massive favor of considering giving us an 8 core processor, we can't expect them to suffer the great financial loss that they would incur by selling an 8 core at the $999 price point, and should gladly pay whatever they feel like charging and then profusely thank them for the privledge. Since nobody in there right mind would ever need anything more than a 6 core, why would anyone even bother with an 8 core anyway?
    [end sarcasm]

    On a more serious note, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see any 8 core enthusiast CPU (if it actually does end up materializing) end up at the $1.5K+ mark. Intel has priced "enthusiast" chips at this point before, with the QX9775. Intel has been very quiet on pricing and since they've been so proficient at screwing enthusiasts hard for the last 3 years, I expect nothing less from them. I'd expect that the only 8 core that could potentially end up at or near $999 would be an ultra-neutered edition with a limited unlock (2-3 bins), a severely restricted L3 cache and most features disabled (virtualization, possibly HT, etc). We wouldn't want folks using them in a server or anything, now would we??:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
  9. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    I think I rather buy a used car or motorcycle....or a few hookers

    I have a 8 core already a AMD


    Unless 6-8 cores end up being the standard for games and see double digit processing power I could care less for that much coin.
     
  10. Sunin

    Sunin [H]ard|DCer of the Month - August 2008

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    Everything I see is it should come in the 1k range, crossing fingers
     
  11. skypine27

    skypine27 Gawd

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    Agreed.

    Im not sure where people are coming up with this 1.5 K crap.

    It will be 999 on newegg when it shows. End of argument. Screen cap this.
     
  12. octoberasian

    octoberasian 2[H]4U

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    My thinking if looking at this link and current pricing of IVB-E/SVB-E processors:

    Intel Core i7-5820

    • $330 to $375
    • 10MB L3 cache
    • 4 cores/8 threads
    Intel Core i7-5830K

    • $530 to $575
    • 15MB L3 cache
    • 6 cores/12 threads
    Intel Core i7-5960X

    • $999 to $1199
    • 20MB L3 cache
    • 8 cores/16 threads
     
  13. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

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    if the 5960x can oc to 4.5 or greater i'd get one
     
  14. RanceJustice

    RanceJustice [H]ardness Supreme

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    If closer to IB pricing (though to be honest, I'll never be satisfied until they return to the decent pricing of Nahalem's launch, where the i7 920 $300 part had the same amount of cores and other specs as the i7 960/965x $1000 part, just lower clocks), but if they're going to have an 8-core option, I think they ought to make the 5930K also 8-core similar to how the 4960x and 4930k both have 6.

    I really hope AMD does something threatening prior to Haswell-E's launch, because Intel needs to stop dragging their feet on their enthusiast offerings and jacking up the price through the roof.
     
  15. ToddW2

    ToddW2 2[H]4U

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    AMD is just around the corner to pass up intel... don't you know :p
     
  16. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Honestly, I don't see a whole lot of real-world difference between my FX8320 and my i7 4930k. One certainly made my wallet lighter.
     
  17. atrance5

    atrance5 2[H]4U

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    Depends what you do with it I guess.

    Personally speaking, my 3770k does well for what I do. Sure, more (cores) is always better, but I ain't paying 500$ more for 2 more cores, and certainly not 1000$+ for 4 cores.
     
  18. lutjens

    lutjens Gawd

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    While I hope you are correct, I have serious doubts about it. Intel will not sell an 8-core for less than the equivalent 8-core Xeon and considers 8-core CPUs with a high clock speed (>3.0GHz) to be worth a steep premium. Even the price of the vaporware E5-1680V2 is very close to that of it's dual-capable counterpart, so I can't imagine Intel charging less than $1500 for an 8-core i7. Normally, a CPU with a higher core count would displace the lower core count chips and assume their price. However, due to the unfortunate reality of absolutely zero competition, Intel is more likely to simply add newer chips with a higher core count to the stack, and increase the price point at which they are sold, rather than discount the older chips. They just did this with the E7 V2 series, releasing the new CPUs at unprecedented price points, where traditionally they should have sold them for near the price of the old ones. The increase in price for the top SKUs is not slight either, with the increase being nearly 50%!!

    I fear that we will see a similar percentage increase in the price of any 8-core i7 CPU and Intel does have precedent in offering an Extreme Edition (EE) at $1499. Intel has no competition and knows that such a chip is highly anticipated by enthusiasts. Therefore, I predict that they'll sell the 8-core i7 for $1500 and force all those who want one to pay up. Intel will then release a neutered 8-core K model SKU (with less cache) roughly six months later for $700ish. The new Haswell-E platform will only initially make sense for those who have to have the EE 8-core processor right away, as the only other likely CPU options for the platform will be six core, and a six core Haswell-E is likely to offer only very modest performance increases over Sandy/Ivy-E systems. I highly doubt Intel will release the neutered 8-core K SKU anywhere near the same time as the EE as such a move will decrease demand for the overpriced EE by a considerable margin and six months is sufficient delay to ensure that most people wanting an 8-core SKU will be unwilling to wait that long. I just hope that by some miracle Intel permits the EE to be dual capable (although such a thing is highly unlikely to occur).
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  19. clownshoes

    clownshoes Limp Gawd

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    I agree with others regarding the $1000 price point of the 8 core chip. I'm guessing there will be a 6 core K model around $600 (just as there is now) and Intel will make the extreme edition chip 8 core (finally justifying the additional cost for the EE).
     
  20. Matthew Kane

    Matthew Kane [H]ardness Supreme

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    I cannot see Intel releasing an 8 core in the near future for the normal consumer(enthusiast) lineup (i.e non Xeon) priced at $1000. No chance.
     
  21. xorbe

    xorbe [H]ardness Supreme

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    My wager is down for $1299! 33% more cores for 30% more moola.
     
  22. Matthew Kane

    Matthew Kane [H]ardness Supreme

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    $1299 sounds plausible. While in other countries such as mine we'll have it for close to $1.6k.

    All Extreme edition CPU's ever released in NA and Canada for $999-$1100 have been over $1100-1300 in Australia.
     
  23. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Current 8C Xeons are $920. Why not?
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116932

    Xeons are better CPUs than consumer, and usually priced above consumer products with lower clocks.
     
  24. octoberasian

    octoberasian 2[H]4U

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    That and the Haswell-E lineup as well as the SVB-E and IVB-E lineup are based on their server counterparts with certain features removed such as multiple QPI and DMI links for SMP boards.

    Therefore, Intel WILL PRICE THEM ACCORDINGLY.

    We cannot assume in our wildest dreams that there will be a 6-core Haswell-E for less than $400 when the server variant of a 6-core Xeon usually runs $387/tray for the lowest speed model, and the one likely representing either the the i7-3930K or i7-4930K is $583/tray.

    So, whatever a 6-core Haswell-EP or Haswell-EN processor will cost per tray or box will be representative of the price of the consumer version of that server processor. The same applies to larger core Haswell-EX. If an 8-core, 16-thread behemoth of a Xeon processor on Socket 2011-13 costs $1399 a tray or per box, expect the Haswell-E variant cost within $50 to $100 of that or so.

    It is unfortunately the price premium computer enthusiasts have to pay for using an Intel processor and going for the "most powerful" or "most e-peen worthy" of a product.

    Intel may not be Apple, but the way they price their processors surely gives the impression of an "Intel tax" on every product they make. We're seeing less of this "Intel tax" on their latest tablet SoCs to bring more affordable tablets and smartphones on the market, but it's nothing compared to what an ARM SoC can bring not in only price but features alone. Sadly, we won't see such discounted prices per chip on typical desktop and laptop processors. Even to this day, an SVB-E brand new still costs nearly as much as an IVB-E processor that's nearly a year old. It defies logic on how an old product still cost as much as a current model. It's like paying for a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee for $26,998 and still see it for sale two years later when a brand-spanking new 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee runs you $27,997 depending on factory installations and model.

    It's just plain greedy, deranged business sense.

    AMD: "I'm sorry this is not the boat we want to share, and we will chart our own course."
     
  25. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    Oh c'mon, now. Surely you remember the PII-300Mhz going for no less than $800 back in Jan-Feb '98, and that was way down from the $1700-1900 fetching price when it launched in mid-'97!

    Think about what we are able to get in a processor for the price tag today compared to a decade or more ago, be it AMD or Intel.

    When I built my system on IB launch day, I was somewhat hesitant about the extra $120 for the i7 over the i5. But then it quickly dawned on me: I spent $164 back in 2005 for a Venice 3000+ (single core 1.8 GHz) on launch day, and almost $400 on an X2 3800+ (dual core 2.0 GHz) later that same year....and there were many on this very forum that were not batting an eye at the $800-900 price tag of the X2 4800+ (dual core 2.4 GHz)!

    On IB launch day, I spent $349 on the flagship LGA1155 part - i7-3770K. A fair bit less than what I spent on the lowliest model AMD dual core in '05.

    I am certainly NOT bitching about the pricing of today's processors. And neither should anyone else. Fact is, we get amazing capability for the money today, regardless of the brand and model processor.

    If the flagship HWL-E processor does come in at $1100-1300, which I kind of doubt, as I expect the $1000 price point to remain intact, then realistically that it not a huge price increase for getting 2 more cores and slightly higher clock speeds out of the box then its predecessor.
     
  26. octoberasian

    octoberasian 2[H]4U

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    You make a fair point. You get a lot of processor for what you pay for.
     
  27. lutjens

    lutjens Gawd

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    That Xeon is a low clock version....and is still carries an MSRP of $900. It's cheaper because it's MUCH slower, and is likely an inferior die that didn't cut the mustard speed-wise. Intel discounts inferior dies to sell them and still get something for them, and with a Xeon, can still get nearly the same price for them that they can from selling an Extreme Edition CPU. The dies that are of higher quality (can function at a higher speed) are sold for much more premium of a price. The E5-1680V2, while still only for use in a 1P system, still carries an MSRP of over $1700 US!! The dual capable E5-2687W V2 sells for even more, with an MSRP over $2100 US!! These CPUs use dies of superior quality to run at their higher clock speed and Xeons with such dies sell for a very premium price. Intel will not discount such a die by nearly 50% to produce an i7 8-core (that also requires a high speed capable die) for sale at $999. They'll keep it as a Xeon and sell it as such, and considering that they're currently able to easily sell all of the high speed capable dies that they can currently make as Xeons (at their high MSRP), there is absolutely zero motivation for them to produce an i7 at $999. Only an MSRP of $1499 could possibly convince Intel to turn some of those high speed capable dies into i7s, with the reduction in price from the single processor 8-core (the E5-1680 V2) being justified in Intel's eyes with the removal of the Xeon name, the loss of ECC support and the lower memory capacity that occurs with the i7.

    Releasing an 8-core i7 EE die at $1499 and to releasing a neutered 8-core K SKU (or perhaps a Xeon equivalent like the E5-1650) with less cache 6-8 months later gives Intel the following advantages:
    1) Maintains a high MSRP per high speed capable 8-core die sold.
    2) Allow them to build an inventory of defective dies (high speed capable 8-cores that have some defective cache space on the die) and are therefore unsuitable for use as full Xeons or EEs. Selling this K SKU at $700-800 will still allow the salvage of some revenue from these defective dies and the pent-up demand for an unlocked 8-core SKU (even one with neutered cache space) at <$1000 will ensure every one of these is sold. The price of this SKU (and whether a Xeon equivalent, i7 version, or both are actually produced) will be directly proportional to the quantity of dies with defective cache space that Intel amasses during production of Haswell-E/EP. Intel will never neuter fully functional dies to supply dies for this SKU (or SKUs) unless demand for the fully functional dies drops off (or yields soar) and they produce more of them than they can sell.
    3) Steers initial demand for 8-core desktop CPUs to the higher priced EE by maintaining a wait period for the K SKU that is sufficiently onerous.
    4) Presents the illusion that Intel actually gives a flying f**k about the high-end enthusiast segment of the market. "We finally gave you the unlocked 8-core you've been nagging us nearly 3 years for...aren't we generous??":rolleyes:
     
  28. Matthew Kane

    Matthew Kane [H]ardness Supreme

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    Those Xeon's are not even overclockable.
     
  29. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Are we stating facts or is everything still speculation?

    But I can careless about the price +/- $1100. If I want it when I comes out, I'm getting it.
     
  30. schizrade

    schizrade [H]ardness Supreme

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    No, but the bclock on the boards are... ;)
     
  31. lutjens

    lutjens Gawd

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    Which Xeons aren't overclockable? The Xeons I know to be hard-locked are the dual-capable ones. The E5-1650 and 1660 are overclockable and I'm pretty sure the V2 equivalents are as well. It's still undetermined whether or not a single processor Xeon 8-core (the only one is the E5-1680 V2 currently) is unlocked, but the single processor Xeon 6-core versions are.
     
  32. lutjens

    lutjens Gawd

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    BCLK ability of the motherboard is irrelevant. If the processor is BCLK locked (non K SKUs, dual-capable Xeons, etc) using a higher BCLK ratio is unfortunately impossible.
     
  33. Matthew Kane

    Matthew Kane [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've had no luck on my RIVE with the E5-2620, 2650, 2603 and 4610. All ES though.
     
  34. lutjens

    lutjens Gawd

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    All dual-capable CPUs. The single processor variants (at least the 6 cores versions) are unlocked, which were the one's I was talking about. It still remains to be seen if the single processor 8-core versions will follow the tradition of being unlocked.
     
  35. Matthew Kane

    Matthew Kane [H]ardness Supreme

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    Looked at your sig rig. I think I might pick a few of them up from fleabay. Any particular good hexacore single variant Xeon to look out for? Something at least on par with 4930k or so.
     
  36. lutjens

    lutjens Gawd

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    Go for the E5-1650. PCI-E 3.0 capable by default and should out clock an i7-4930K. I used one in a friend's build....nice little chip.

    Also FYI, both the Xeon he has and the Xeon I have also have excellent IMCs...so the Xeon IMC overall may be a cut above the i7...don't know for sure though...;)
     
  37. Matthew Kane

    Matthew Kane [H]ardness Supreme

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    Damn man, no luck finding any of those E5-1xxx series cpu's on fleabay. Two results returned from 1660 search but non ES and over $1.5k on my end. Most ES' on ebay are either E5-26xx or 4xxx series.
     
  38. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I would like Asus to take a shot a making a X99 ITX board.
     
  39. Sunin

    Sunin [H]ard|DCer of the Month - August 2008

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    Have we confirmed this will top out at supporting 64GB of DDR4?