Haswell-E reveal: 8 Cores, DDR4, X99

Discussion in 'Intel Processors' started by phrozenfayte, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. phrozenfayte

    phrozenfayte n00b

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    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
  2. JimmiG

    JimmiG 2[H]4U

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    140W. Will be interesting to see what if they can get away with using the same TIM as Haswell.
     
  3. phrozenfayte

    phrozenfayte n00b

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    I'd like to think they'll put a bit more effort in the $1000+ enthusiast cpus compared to the consumer ones. I know we haven't seen Ivy Bridge-E yet, but if it gets soldered IHS' we can expect Haswell-E to get the same.

    That or we're back using a block of wood.
     
  4. JimmiG

    JimmiG 2[H]4U

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    Well, I think if Intel wanted to use the solder vs TIM as a distinguishing feature of their high-end CPUs, they would speak more openly about it and actually advertise that advantage IMO. So far they haven't even said exactly why they went with TIM when switching to 22nm. It may have been for technical reasons (die too small, thermal density or similar).

    For a lot of people, especially gamers, that will be the most important "feature". The extra memory channels and 6 - 8 cores aren't really useful for games, and high-end LGA 1150 motherboards already provide enough PCI-E lanes for SLI. So the one benefit that everyone is hoping for is higher overclocks / lower temps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
  5. ChronoDetector

    ChronoDetector 2[H]4U

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    Hope this is true, because X79 is old and really needs a successor.
     
  6. phrozenfayte

    phrozenfayte n00b

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    More and more games are coming out with more threads than just 4, and will continue to do so in the next generation. Both the new consoles run on 8 core, low frequency cpus. Almost all of the development in the future will run on the basis of 4 minimum, 8 recommended. The 6 core 980x has a distinct advantage against highly threaded games such as ARMA2-3 and GW2 even compared to the new haswell chips, despite a 30% IPC gap clock for clock.

    Additionally, Socket 1150 motherboards only have 1x 16x PCIE lane to work with for graphics cards which comes in the flavours of 1x16, 2x8 or 1x8 + 2x4. SLI with current cards is FINE for 2x, but a bit pushing it for 3 and 4 times in terms of bandwidth.

    PLX chips dont magically increase the number of lanes on a motherboard, and reduce total performance compared with a native solution. Having 2x16, in 4x8 for 2011-3 will provide significantly better performance, especially when we start to hit the bandwidth boundaries in the next generation.
     
  7. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    my bet is that DDR4 2133 will be slower than DDR3 2133 just as DDR3 1066 was slower than DDR2 1066.

    Also, Haswell E will probably have silicon with up to 12 cores. Intel is still giving us the shitty end of the stick with 8-core parts.
     
  8. JimmiG

    JimmiG 2[H]4U

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    Not saying there won't be an advantage.. but would it be worth $999 for most people, without additional OC headroom?

    Writing multi-threaded code is very expensive and complicated. It's too early to tell whether developers will spend the additional time and money to optimize code properly for 8 "cores" (4 FPU's). There are also real limitations on how much work you can do in parallel - certain workloads just don't benefit from having more than 2-4 cores no matter how you "optimize". With HT, an i7 can probably run 8 threads at least as fast as the Jaguar cores in the PS4/XBO, and even the i5 has a huge clock speed and IPC/TLP advantage. If the need for 8 cores arises in the regular desktop segment, Intel will surely have an 8 core CPU at a more appropriate price point, but that is still a long way off. The new consoles won't make Quad core obsolete overnight or even in the next several years.
     
  9. atrance5

    atrance5 2[H]4U

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    2H 2014.

    So probably Holidays 2014. 1.5 Years away.
     
  10. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Will keep Ivy until then. Hasweel -E and Nv Maxwell sounds like a great combo in 2014.
     
  11. ShuttleLuv

    ShuttleLuv [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sounds sexy but so far away.....
     
  12. mazzy80

    mazzy80 n00b

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    Well, some little Issues :

    DDR4 in a 1 year for consumers when it don't even is available just now ?
    It should be available for Xeon E7 in 14Q1, We're talking about the Top High-End Xeon ($2-5,000 CPU) and Registered Buffered type. Where the Hardware cost is a fractions of overall cost of platform.
    Look way too early, it'll cost a fortune at launch... untested, immature, Unbuffered type, maybe with even slower performance that the cheaper and mature DDR3.

    1 DDR Slot for channel, a misprint maybe not, reduce to 4 slot it's a step back, ok the DDR4 will be the new kids on the block , but it'll be raw tech too so look reasonable that it'll need more time to support unbuffered multiple dimm.
    No more 64GB for a while ? 16 GB stick DDR4, if even exist at launch,will cost you an arm for sure.

    8C will be the X edition, I can't see a 8c slotted nothing else that at the top, otherwise it'll be the dead of 4770K or whatever exist with haswell refresh, 4c Vs 8c for $200 more ? ... No way.

    More interesting is the 6c at the entry level, unlocked, under $300.
    really ?
    But what about the refreshed 4770k ? 4C at the same price ? DOA.
    Something must happens at the consumer level..
    Maybe the i7 Haswell-E will increase on price,

    i7-5820k 12MB L3 at $500 ?
    i7-5930k 15Mb L3 at $749 ?
    i7-5960X 20MB at $1,099 ?

    with nothing from AMD why not ?
    so the cheaper K-CPU can still be competitive.

    But the big question is the Integrated VR.....
    How much headroom to push the cpu to the limit ?
    The heat density will be unbelievable pretty soon with 8c and higher voltage. pushing to high clock

    Looking at this pace, you can keep your pc for 10 years and barely feel the difference...
    a Q6600 clocked at 3.0Ghz+ with 8GB and a Midrange GPU is still pretty decent overall for all... and it's 6 years old techs with no integrated MC, 2 dual.core on different dies fuse on the same package)
    think about a SB clocked at 4.2.4.3 GHz in 6 years...with 16GB, a fast SSD on SATA3, a decent GPU... you can keep it until it'll broke down without miss a beat really.
    Billions loss by Intel due a miss sales.

    A CPU that rule them all is not going to works just like a OS (win 8)
    1 CPU designed for mobile/phone with lowest TDP as possible. (like Haswell)
    1 CPU designed for maxium efficiency for high-end desktop/server part. (like SB)

    As big as intel is should be pretty easy and in best interest for the stakeholder.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
  13. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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  14. WhoBeDaPlaya

    WhoBeDaPlaya 2[H]4U

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    Will probably come out just in time for Broadwell's successor :eek:
     
  15. atrance5

    atrance5 2[H]4U

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    Will keep Ivy as well, but switching will be expensive.

    Motherboards in the 300-450$ range
    RAM expensive for sure.
    CPU well, I guess it will come down how they price the 8 core. My guess in the 1k$ zone.
     
  16. atrance5

    atrance5 2[H]4U

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    English is not your native language I assume? Otherwise, what the fuck.
     
  17. Sheppard

    Sheppard [H]ard|Gawd

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    What is with the rash of a-hole posts lately? Adriantrances next time you have a knee jerk need to make a post like this, keep that shit to yourself. Not only is it offensive but it adds absolutely no value to the conversation.
     
  18. King Icewind

    King Icewind [H]ardness Supreme

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    Those look great. No definite price points yet.. probably expensive. I feel like Intel has skewed "enthusiast" with "blood made of gold."
     
  19. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yes it will be expensive, but this news saved me from buying a 4770K, 3930K in the forums or a 4930K later this year.
    Now I can keep my current build for 12-16 months, which saves me a lot of money right now.
     
  20. WhoBeDaPlaya

    WhoBeDaPlaya 2[H]4U

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    Haven't you seen this documentary of America's youth?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crdao-yNAIA
     
  21. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

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    So are we saying 4 dimms total per socket?
     
  22. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Wonder how they're going to implement DDR4 on it, theoretically it should be only single dimm per channel since it's point to point, but I thought they were talking about switched memory banks. Otherwise we'll be stuck at 64GB in a 4x16GB setup.
     
  23. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

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    yeah 4x16GB is too restrictive. It'd be better if it was 8 slots like it is now. would this new chip have a DDR4 controller? I'd assume so right?
     
  24. octoberasian

    octoberasian 2[H]4U

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    Comparing it to my older post below, looks like Fudzilla is correct on the DDR4 memory controller.

    However, it looks like core count is reduced to 6 and 8 cores, instead of the predicted max of 12 cores.
     
  25. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The Xeons have to support switched memory banks otherwise we're going to have some serious issues being stuck at 4x64GB for each processor. I imagine we'll see some sort of multiple dimm per channel support, just not sure how they're going to do it. There have been reports that total bandwidth is an issue and if you exceed a certain amount things get flaky with DDR4.
     
  26. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    DDR4's design spec states that it will only ever support 1 dimm per channel. It will make it slightly faster, but nonetheless I think it's a but of a limit. The desktop consumer-level stuff will only support 2 dimms.
     
  27. Liger88

    Liger88 2[H]4U

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    Well there goes all hope IVB-E was going to feature cut down Xeon parts from 10-12 Cores. Wonder if the Xeon's are still getting the raised cores as speculated since the IVB-E rumors were absolutely false it seems.

    Another two years before extremist get a chance to have more than 6 cores.


    *yawn*
     
  28. phrozenfayte

    phrozenfayte n00b

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    Not sure why people keep quoting 16gb as the max size per slot on DDR4, samsung have already announced 32gb modules. So there's 128gb of ram to satisfy you at least in the interim.

    Also the way i've understood it, for terms of bandwidth compared to single/dual/tri/quad channel ram, is that each stick of DDR4 ram fills each bank independently and directly, allowing it to be "16 channel" per dimm. That should offer equivalent speed even to people who have single slots (and up to 32gb in 1 slot). Correct me if i'm wrong.
     
  29. octoberasian

    octoberasian 2[H]4U

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    You can read more about DDR4 in my quote below and the links in it:
     
  30. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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    32GB are all registered, hopefully they have 64GB registered dimms as well, since we already have 32GB registered DDR3 dimms. Either way, you're going to need a Xeon to use them.
     
  31. andre1992

    andre1992 [H]Lite

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    this is what I been waiting for. time for me to really upgrade. how much time until this is all out in the real world?
     
  32. octoberasian

    octoberasian 2[H]4U

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    Estimated release supposedly to coincide with Xeon (Haswell-EP/EN) in 2H 2014 or Summer 2014.
     
  33. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    $1200 8 core
    $1000 DDR4
    $500 MoBo
    $200 CPU Cooling

    Umm, no.


    Umm, no.
     
  34. Really

    Really n00b

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    Actual prices will be:

    > $1000 for the 'Xtreme' chip
    or: $700 for the 'Good' chip
    $400 for ample DDR4 --> $300 soon-after
    $400 for Mobo
    $80 for CPU Cooling

    Really,
    - Really
     
  35. tonyftw

    tonyftw [H]ard|Gawd

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    Same here. Ivy should last me till at least haswell-e, though I might wait to see what skylake offers.
     
  36. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    We'll see...
     
  37. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    I highly doubt an 8-core extreme edition chip will be anything less than $1200. 6-core extremes have been $1000 consistently for the past 5 years, you think intel is just going to wake up one day and suddenly become generous enough to offer the market an 8 core for the same price as they've historically offered a 6-core???

    Not a chance. 6-core extreme edition chips are selling wildly enough at their current price, intel won't skrew with that pricing structure. IF they even offer an 8-core at all, it will be $1200 or more.
     
  38. Michaelius

    Michaelius [H]ardness Supreme

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    So were single core, dual core and quad core extreme editions before them.
     
  39. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Exactly. People love to predict prices. Have we learned anything from the video card threads?
    Haswell-E and DDR4 hasn't been finalized for DT or officially announced yet. The market can swing up or down over the next year.

    If a person really needs/wants this platform, the price is just a small obstacle to leap over. Fore other's that don't have a need, they see a wall they can't leap over and poo poo the price.
     
  40. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    And that's why I posted high predictive prices for everything... we don't know what the real MSRP's of everything will be yet, so better to speculate high and prepare yourself that way than to expect lower prices and then get sticker shock and feel all pissed off. We don't know what the market will be like for segments like an 8-core consumer part, DDR4 memory, or motherboards. In my experience, they always come out at pretty stiff prices, especially new iterations of CPU and memory if the only initial platforms that can use it are the most expensive platforms. Gouge, gouge, gouge the customer on two fronts: from the manufacturers and from the retailers. Happens every time.

    This could end up helping AMD, since the typical Joe Schmoe PC buyer will see the Intel 8 core systems priced at $3000+ and the AMD "8 core" system right next to it at $1500+. If I were in AMD's marketing department, I'd be making huge strides to prepare for this free opportunity.