has anyone had any horror stories with ES CPU's?

tsubasa hanekawa

tsubasa hanekawa

Limp Gawd
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Jan 25, 2015
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hello, as per the title im looking allot into ES cpu's for my next build and so im wondering of anyone has heard anything bad of them or had any problems with them? im mainly needing lots of cores/threads for virtuilisation but i don't have £1200 to drop on an E5-2670-V3 so im looking into ES ones and they're much closer to £320 for what appears to be pretty much identical the same cpu, if it's all no good then i'll have to stick to a 5820K or something, many thanks in advanced.
 
1. They are Intel property and illegal to buy/sell
2. If #1 doesn't bother you, there is a reason they are called Engineering Samples. There is a chance they aren't stable or they may produce weird errata.
3. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't amazing overclockers. They have the same chances as just about every other CPU. I'm not sure where that rumor started, but IIRC it might have been around the P4 days when there was a string of decent ones.
4. I have seen many times motherboard bios simply won't recognize them properly, thus causing even more headache.
5. #2,3,4 don't necessarily have a high chance of happening, but they can and do happen.
 
I have on occasion found issues with them on retail motherboards. In some instances I have seen ES CPUs which don't overclock as well or require a considerable amount of voltage to overclock well compared to most retail CPUs.

In most cases they work about the same as long as the silicon isn't an early sample.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
1. They are Intel property and illegal to buy/sell
2. If #1 doesn't bother you, there is a reason they are called Engineering Samples. There is a chance they aren't stable or they may produce weird errata.
3. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't amazing overclockers. They have the same chances as just about every other CPU. I'm not sure where that rumor started, but IIRC it might have been around the P4 days when there was a string of decent ones.
4. I have seen many times motherboard bios simply won't recognize them properly, thus causing even more headache.
5. #2,3,4 don't necessarily have a high chance of happening, but they can and do happen.
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i wasn't aware of the first part, my looking into it never turned any of that up really but whilst it doesn't 'bother' be it's a consideration, i just don't have £1200 to spend on a cpu XD

well, if it's stable enough for virtuilisation then that's enough for me XD won't be 24/7 stuff

well the 2011-3 (as well as normal 2011) xeons are multi locked anyways so that's no real problem there, but i have heard of the old P4's in that respect

that's the main one is motherboard support im finding, the boards support the equivelant retail but there's such little information on ES ones out there, probably because no one really uses them so it'd be a bit of a stab in the dark really
 
Dan_D said:
I have on occasion found issues with them on retail motherboards. In some instances I have seen ES CPUs which don't overclock as well or require a considerable amount of voltage to overclock well compared to most retail CPUs.

In most cases they work about the same as long as the silicon isn't an early sample.
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overclocking won't be an issue, the E5-2### being multi locked anyways XD

just board support really from what i've seen but the silicon being an early sample as a problem is a new one i've seen, thanks for that input
 
If I was about to go the ES route, I'd try to get a "late" ES chip, meaning I'd be looking for an ES chip with the closet manufacturing date to its non-ES counterpart release date. I believe the closer to the official release date an ES chip was manufactured, the better odds of such a chip performing well are. You can tell the manufacturing date of a processor by the numbers on its heat spreader.
 
kniaugaudiskis said:
If I was about to go the ES route, I'd try to get a "late" ES chip, meaning I'd be looking for an ES chip with the closet manufacturing date to its non-ES counterpart release date. I believe the closer to the official release date an ES chip was manufactured, the better odds of such a chip performing well are. You can tell the manufacturing date of a processor by the numbers on its heat spreader.
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that's the plan, so far i seem to have narrowed a few good ones down, one 2670-v3 and one 2667-v3 but im weary of the 2667 as it's a 2.9GHz part and the retail one is 3.2GHz so that looks like room for incompatibility
 
Make sure you contact the seller, and ask them which motherboards they tried it on.
 
SpeedyVV said:
Make sure you contact the seller, and ask them which motherboards they tried it on.
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ill be sure to ask before i make any moves, i'd doubt that it'll have been tested in a consumer board but you never know i suppose, thanks for that input.
 
Most retail boards with the latest bios microcode won't recognise and will not boot ES cpu's with B0 stepping and earlier, these chips usually start with QAxx as there ES batch code name. C0 stepping and later silicon usually not a problem.

As with risks that you take with ES cpu's, they can die out of the blue, overclocked or not, usually the case for early ES'. Has happened to me and others so don't expect the ES cpu to be even stable in your system.
 
Just purchased and installed 4x ES x5675 CPUs in my pair of Dell PowerEdge R710.

Two were marked B1 with sharpie while the other two had no sharpie marking on them at all.

They all seem to work fine so I am happy.
 
As has been mentioned, every intel ES chip is property of Intel, and it's illegal to buy or sell one. That said I sincerely doubt Law Enforcement or Intel are going to hunt you down for purchasing an ES of a CPU that's been released, but they COULD if they really wanted, receiving stolen property is a crime in the US.

With that out of the way, assuming you're fine with the risks, do your research on steppings before dropping any cash on an ES. I know of an 8 core B0 stepping that *only* works with certain asrock motherboards despite the seller's claims that it would function in any retail asus motherboard - I tried three with various bios versions - but VT-d doesn't function on it.
 
SpeedyVV said:
I know for a fact that they do many times.
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ohh, that's a surprise, id have thought they'd have just had some single socket supermicro workhorse or something of the sort, but then i suppose if it can be thrown into a standard 'gaming' board then that's cheaper
 
Matthew Kane said:
Most retail boards with the latest bios microcode won't recognise and will not boot ES cpu's with B0 stepping and earlier, these chips usually start with QAxx as there ES batch code name. C0 stepping and later silicon usually not a problem.

As with risks that you take with ES cpu's, they can die out of the blue, overclocked or not, usually the case for early ES'. Has happened to me and others so don't expect the ES cpu to be even stable in your system.
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thanks, ill keep my eye out for C0 steppings if i do take this route.

im willing to take a few risks if it saves me £900+ XD
 
capt_cope said:
As has been mentioned, every intel ES chip is property of Intel, and it's illegal to buy or sell one. That said I sincerely doubt Law Enforcement or Intel are going to hunt you down for purchasing an ES of a CPU that's been released, but they COULD if they really wanted, receiving stolen property is a crime in the US.

With that out of the way, assuming you're fine with the risks, do your research on steppings before dropping any cash on an ES. I know of an 8 core B0 stepping that *only* works with certain asrock motherboards despite the seller's claims that it would function in any retail asus motherboard - I tried three with various bios versions - but VT-d doesn't function on it.
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i'd assume it'll all be the same over here in the uk really but it's a risk im willing to take yeah

ill look into the steppings allot more thoroughly, thanks for this input, for the most part though im looking towards the 12 core parts but there still may be the same problem you've had there.
 
small update on the 2670 v3, had a look at the listing and the stepping it seems is an M0, being new to looking specifically at stepping numbers im not sure if this is a good stepping or not, many thanks if anyone can shed some light on that.
 
tsubasa hanekawa said:
that's the main one is motherboard support im finding, the boards support the equivelant retail but there's such little information on ES ones out there, probably because no one really uses them so it'd be a bit of a stab in the dark really
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It's actually because there is no standard for ES chips, not really due to lack of them. Many people just don't want the headache. And they are cheap usually, but also very hard to sell to most people.
 
tsubasa hanekawa said:
id have thought as much, being pre retail chips i suppose they're more for testing to see how well it does more than anything
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And in reality many changes are made to the chips based on the faults ES chips have...

So the retail product is almost always "better" or considered more stable. Which is why retail generally cost more. ES chips have no advantage other than price.
 
Rav3n said:
And in reality many changes are made to the chips based on the faults ES chips have...

So the retail product is almost always "better" or considered more stable. Which is why retail generally cost more. ES chips have no advantage other than price.
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yeah instability in places i can deal with, it's not a mission critical system, just something for me to do a crapload of virtuilisation on XD

yeah the cost benefit is really the reason im off for it, im needing a small build (not much space) with 12 cores really and i don't have £1200 to drop on a cpu so this is my only real option
 
tsubasa hanekawa said:
yeah instability in places i can deal with, it's not a mission critical system, just something for me to do a crapload of virtuilisation on XD

yeah the cost benefit is really the reason im off for it, im needing a small build (not much space) with 12 cores really and i don't have £1200 to drop on a cpu so this is my only real option
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Then just hope it does the basics.

Virtualization relies greatly on FPO, and logic. Hopefully the ES chip doesnt have any issues with logic. That would totally defeat the purpose of using it.

But I think you'd be fine as long as you know it will work on the board you are using.
 
Rav3n said:
Then just hope it does the basics.

Virtualization relies greatly on FPO, and logic. Hopefully the ES chip doesnt have any issues with logic. That would totally defeat the purpose of using it.

But I think you'd be fine as long as you know it will work on the board you are using.
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ill be hoping as such

yeah that's the main one, just have to see about the virtuilisation

im currently awaiting a response from the seller.
 
Living in San Jose in the late 1990's I got my hands on a lot of ES stuff, but most of it was crap to be honest. Which is probably why it was tossed then resold to a sucker like me. :D
 
schizrade said:
Living in San Jose in the late 1990's I got my hands on a lot of ES stuff, but most of it was crap to be honest. Which is probably why it was tossed then resold to a sucker like me. :D
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for the price it's worth the risk in my eyes :p if they turn out to be bad ill try return it, failing that ill either try sell it on or swallow my pride and frame it on my wall as an expensive mistake (like the mobo and cpu i have up there)
 
I used to work for Intel in Validation lab in one of their development centers as an infrastructure tech (basically monitoring and prepping the systems that test the CPU`s and chipsets)

Now there were two types of tests
1) logic tests , not much stress there , just making sure 1+1=2 (well very basically...)
2) stress test , see how well the CPU`s handle 100% workload for weeks with temps as high (IRC) as 120C and as low as -10C using heater and chiller systems and setting all kind of crazy clocks / voltages

Every year Intel would 'loan' a CPU to its employees , those CPU`s were some of those CPU that were used for testing, and might have had a rough life .

(they were the very last stepping before commercial stepping and were branded with models etc, the earlier test CPUs have no specific model or set clock speed )

anyways, i would skip any ES CPU , not worth the trouble.
 
T_A said:
I used to work for Intel in Validation lab in one of their development centers as an infrastructure tech (basically monitoring and prepping the systems that test the CPU`s and chipsets)

Now there were two types of tests
1) logic tests , not much stress there , just making sure 1+1=2 (well very basically...)
2) stress test , see how well the CPU`s handle 100% workload for weeks with temps as high (IRC) as 120C and as low as -10C using heater and chiller systems and setting all kind of crazy clocks / voltages

Every year Intel would 'loan' a CPU to its employees , those CPU`s were some of those CPU that were used for testing, and might have had a rough life .

(they were the very last stepping before commercial stepping and were branded with models etc, the earlier test CPUs have no specific model or set clock speed )

anyways, i would skip any ES CPU , not worth the trouble.
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im not having much luck really finding anything that'd really do the job fur less than what you can get a gaming system for :p the only reason i look towards ES really is purely for the price benefit and the cores, i mean 1366 would do for 12c 24t but no more than that which may be a problem at a later date, that and dual 1366 boards in the UK are horrendously expensive, CPU's are cheap but it's the boards that kill it really
 
It's a total crap shoot here... might be a good board, but bad CPU, bad CPU good board, etc... you need to make sure you have the time to cover all tests if using ES CPUs.

If it's important, don't use an ES.
 
ToddW2 said:
It's a total crap shoot here... might be a good board, but bad CPU, bad CPU good board, etc... you need to make sure you have the time to cover all tests if using ES CPUs.

If it's important, don't use an ES.
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ill have plenty of time yeah so any tests i that would need doing can be done, and my next door neighbor has a spare 5820k he says i can borrow should i need to (he moved to a 5960x and he never sells parts XD)

yeah what ill be doing isn't important, nothing mission critical and not something that i can't afford to mess up, if it messes up then that be that and ill sort it out.

i may just try and source a dual 1366 board though hearing all this.
 
i have some dual 1366 boards PM me.

I wouldn't waste $ on a x58 ES though, just FWIW.... spend it on an E5 if you're going ES. If not you can get 1366 Xeons all day dirt cehap already,, full retail.
 
ToddW2 said:
i have some dual 1366 boards PM me.

I wouldn't waste $ on a x58 ES though, just FWIW.... spend it on an E5 if you're going ES. If not you can get 1366 Xeons all day dirt cehap already,, full retail.
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i assume you're in the states? if so shipping would be a problem XD and im not quite looking yet, just weighing up my options, but we can continue in PM if you wish

yeah it's like £100 for a xeon X5675, so like £200 for 12C 24T at 3GHz with a boost of 3.4GHz :p if i am to go ES it'd be 2011, if i go 1366 it'll just be retail chips :p
 
Fwiw, there are plenty of cheap hexacore for the 1366 platform that can do 4GHZ no problem, no need to buy ES hexacore 1366 cpu's when the OEM retails for about $60-90 on ebay. Comparable performance to the 2011 stuff as well and unless you're buying the E5-16xx single cpu platform range or the K variants the others can't overclock.

I used a hexacore 2011 E5-26XX ES cpu for about 2 years before I found a 3820 (refer to my signature) for cheap. No problems with the ES cpu that I was using till I sold it off for cheap to another person using it now for Vmware stuff.
 
Matthew Kane said:
Fwiw, there are plenty of cheap hexacore for the 1366 platform that can do 4GHZ no problem, no need to buy ES hexacore 1366 cpu's when the OEM retails for about $60-90 on ebay. Comparable performance to the 2011 stuff as well and unless you're buying the E5-16xx single cpu platform range or the K variants the others can't overclock.

I used a hexacore 2011 E5-26XX ES cpu for about 2 years before I found a 3820 (refer to my signature) for cheap. No problems with the ES cpu that I was using till I sold it off for cheap to another person using it now for Vmware stuff.
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well for my needs ill be looking around 12 cores and 24 threads or at the very least 8 cores and 16 threads, for 1366 i'd need an SR2 to do what you're saying and they still go for ALLOT, but if im going to go 1366 ill just get some old retail X5675's, should do good enough given i don't so much need clock speed more really just cores on the cheap but the X5675's might make a good backup should my main rig break XD

see with this it's all very mixed it seems XD
 
so the seller got back to me, they've been tested (in single and dual config) in an asus Z10PE-D8 WS board, he has said however that if it doesn't work in my board or doesn't work as it should he will give me a full refund so that makes it a bit easier, that's one source sorted, waiting on the next (i have an E5-2670-V3 and also a backup lined up which is an E5-2667-V3)
 
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You don't need an SR-2 to run dual 1366 hexacores, they also quite unstable with dual overclocked hexacores to begin with. Just buy a cheap server or enterprise used dual 1366 from ebay and be done with it. As other's have stated, ES 2011 socket cpu's a crapshoot in terms of stability, working long time or even getting it to boot off your board in the first place.
 
Matthew Kane said:
You don't need an SR-2 to run dual 1366 hexacores, they also quite unstable with dual overclocked hexacores to begin with. Just buy a cheap server or enterprise used dual 1366 from ebay and be done with it. As other's have stated, ES 2011 socket cpu's a crapshoot in terms of stability, working long time or even getting it to boot off your board in the first place.
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to overclock them i would though :p and you mentioned 4GHz which isn't doable without an SR2 for my needs (being the need for two of them) besides there are no dual 1366 boards really going about in the UK

in talks with one seller i've confirmed with one seller that for the 12 core 24 thread one that they'll give me a month of use for me to decide if it's stable enough and if it even works in my board, if it's not stable enough or doesn't work in the board i get a full refund so that shouldn't much be a problem
 
I went through 3 SR-2's and ime they are overhyped and overpriced garbage, had too many problems with them and not surprised they were very shortlived on the market.

Even with the low speed 2011 E5's they are not overclockable regardless of motherboard and cpu.

Plenty of dual 1366 boards going in the US ebay. I'm not from the States and I still buy from the US ebay and save a good chunk. The Sterling pound is greater in currency value to the USD so for you, they'd be even cheap, even after international shipping.
 
Matthew Kane said:
I went through 3 SR-2's and ime they are overhyped and overpriced garbage, had too many problems with them and not surprised they were very shortlived on the market.

Even with the low speed 2011 E5's they are not overclockable regardless of motherboard and cpu.

Plenty of dual 1366 boards going in the US ebay. I'm not from the States and I still buy from the US ebay and save a good chunk. The Sterling pound is greater in currency value to the USD so for you, they'd be even cheap, even after international shipping.
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yeah but if you get a good one then they still go strong even today :p it's a niche market so it's not surprising that they're not all the same, i hear they can be finicky but i'd still pay good money for one :p

well i have 2 options, one is a 2.3GHz 12 core that boosts up to 3.1GHz or a 2.9GHz 8 core that boosts to something higher (it's not a match to the retail one so im not sure what the boost is) it's going to be a virtuilisation with gaming on the side type rig but i'd prefer it in an MATX form

yeah i don't mind buying from overseas but 1366 is kind of more of a last resort so to speak really
 
Oh yeah forgot. With the newer ES cpu's make sure the ones that can turbo are able to to turbo on all cores. most ES cpu's can turbo up to 3ghz or so but only two cores with the other cores on default 2ish ghz.
 
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