Has AMD busted itself trying to beat Intel?

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Pocatello

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http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=366&tag=nl.e589


Where it matters - price, performance and power consumption - Intel hammers AMD into the ground. That's why AMD has, in the space of 12 months, turned from making a tidy profit into making an eye-watering loss, and unless the company starts listening to what customers want rather than telling them what they need, AMD's going to continue down the plughole.
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Interesting article about the poor financial results from AMD.

I was suprised that there was no mention of ATI. Where are the R600 GPU cards? nVidia rules ATI in GPU performance, just as Intel beats AMD in CPUs. I was willing to overlook performance to get the R600 card for folding and gaming. But maybe not any longer. Not with my C2D doing so well.

:(
 
R600 should be a very good platform IMO. We'll have to wait and see. Hopefully they'll release it ahead of Barcelona (AMD/ATI was talking of making it a dual release :rolleyes: why wait?). If Barcelona and R600 perform well they should start seeing better days. If AMD doesn't snap to it Intel will be far ahead with 45nm parts in the mainstream and they'll still be playing catch up. Intel will beat them to 45nm mainstream but we'll have to wait and see how well it performs. It should do well. AMD/ATI has their work cut out for them.
 
AMD is down this year....intel will be down next year...etc etc etc. its all circular.
 
Pocatello said:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=366&tag=nl.e589

nVidia rules ATI in GPU performance, just as Intel beats AMD in CPUs.
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ohhh, folding! its sooo important!!:rolleyes:
intel has faster chips RIGHT NOW and thats all good, but your claims on nvidia 'ruling' ATI in performance are completly unfounded.
links to said 'rulings'?
other than the nvidia 8800GTX the 2 are pretty equal.
It ALWAYS goes back and forth, always has, always will.:rolleyes:
 
they will be back on top its just life as technology
a few years ago amd were second dog but they worked hard and got on top
intel did the same with the c2d and amd will climb back again with the barcelona or something else
 
This is ASSUMING that Intel will let them. People don't seem to understand that Intel has the deep financial pockets to keep up a costly price war, especially with such a better product. AMD needs to generate sufficient income to not only research a new product (clearly the Athlon platform cannot hang with C2D anymore, just as the Pentium platform couldn't hang with Athlon) but to advertise and mass produce as well. Say AMD comes out with Barcelona and it can hang with or runs more efficient than whatever Intel has on the market at the time, Intel can simply cut prices so people continue to use Intel and minimize or eliminate AMD profits. This will severely hamper AMD's ability to come out with a new product to get the upper edge.

Remember, in a realistic world, better technology DOES NOT always win. This was proven in the battle between Zip drives and Super Disk. Super Disk was better but Zip drives were producing faster, sooner, and much more and thus were more available. Even when the super disk was much cheaper and still better (also smaller) no one really bought it...except me :D
 
AMD has milked the K8 core for all it's worth for the past 4 years. I just can't feel too sorry for them for wasting all their money buying ATI when their K8 is just about at the end of it's ropes and they despirately need to upgrade their manufacturing plants.

It doesn't matter what kind of great things the AMD/ATI team will produce in the future if they don't have a competitive product NOW that they can use to pay the bills they have NOW.

The thing that bothers me the most is how I read about AMD having a really amazing quarter now and then, and all the AMD exec's get shit faced and give themselves huge raises or stock options. Shouldn't that profit go to paying the bills they accumulated on all the other quarters they lost money? It's like they just don't get it. It's akin to some dummy that's in debt up to his eyeballs and inherits some money and instead of paying off his debts, goes and buys a new car, boat, and takes a trip around the world, then gets back home and realizes he now owes more money than he got from the inheritance.

I love AMDs products, but it's a company that really deserves to fail. You can't succeed as a company when all your executives calling the shots are fucktards and have no vision.
 
I'm just kinda curious but isn't intel being on top a recent development? Amd has had the lead since the pentium 4's came out right? C2D is the only cpu that intel has had in a long time that has out preformed AMD in a long time right? I think I'm right but wanted to confirm it.
 
I have never owned an Intel desktop. Never will...

AMD will pull something out. They always do..
 
AMD !!!!!! ftl :p Just go with whatever is best dude. Buying from a technology brand simply out of favoritism is simply irrational and quite frankly...stupid. Intel being on top is a recent development if we are comparing this decade. I recall the Pentium 3 OWNED the K6-2?
 
amoeba1126 said:
AMD !!!!!! ftl :p Just go with whatever is best dude. Buying from a technology brand simply out of favoritism is simply irrational and quite frankly...stupid. Intel being on top is a recent development if we are comparing this decade. I recall the Pentium 3 OWNED the K6-2?
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Cool thats what I thought. Yeah go with what ever is best at the moment for the price your willing to pay.
 
pettybone said:
Cool thats what I thought. Yeah go with what ever is best at the moment for the price your willing to pay.
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Dont listen to him man... When AMD was on top, he was saying you shouldnt buy AMD cause Intel was the better company.... :eek:
 
pettybone said:
I'm just kinda curious but isn't intel being on top a recent development? Amd has had the lead since the pentium 4's came out right? C2D is the only cpu that intel has had in a long time that has out preformed AMD in a long time right? I think I'm right but wanted to confirm it.
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AMD has always played second fiddle to Intel. The first time they became a real competitor to Intel was with the K7, but Intel managed to hold onto the lead in the end as Intel marketed the hell out of the P4 netburst. When AMD came out with the K8, for the first time, AMD took the entire performance crown from Intel. AMD is now back where it has always been. Hopefully AMD can pull itself back up.

amoeba1126 said:
AMD !!!!!! ftl :p Just go with whatever is best dude. Buying from a technology brand simply out of favoritism is simply irrational and quite frankly...stupid. Intel being on top is a recent development if we are comparing this decade. I recall the Pentium 3 OWNED the K6-2?
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And I suppose in your own little world you would compare a Pentium 3 to a 80486DX4? Why don't you compare a Pentium 3 to the AMD part that was out at the same time? The Athlon K7? Not so much ownage now is there. In fact, I believe the K7 edged by the P3 in performance per clock, and in performance per $, the K7 "OWNED" the P3 completely. K7 1Ghz was like $250 and a P3 1Ghz was like $500 and the K7 was a tad faster.
 
AMD is actually ATI and AMD now, not sure if their financials show that yet.

AMD shot itself in the foot with all the socket changes. Hopefully some heads will roll for that - that's why they're getting gutted in the price war right now - no one wants to buy cpus whose socket death is imminent so.... watch those prices plummet.

But AMD has stuff in the pipeline, AMD has ATI, and AMD has made some great chips in the past so we know they can in the future. Core2Duo rocks because a) there's two cores, and b) they have a big cache. I haven't heard about any earthshaking advances other than that. AMD can - and has - learned to stick more cores on a chip too. Not sure how their fabs are doing on the large cache thing. Unfortunately AMD performed their advances on multiple socket configs and then told us they were going to create still another socket. So we're all going "So if I buy your stuff I'm an idiot?"

They will learn to improve upon these tactics.
 
Met-AL said:
And I suppose in your own little world you would compare a Pentium 3 to a 80486DX4? Why don't you compare a Pentium 3 to the AMD part that was out at the same time? The Athlon K7? Not so much ownage now is there. In fact, I believe the K7 edged by the P3 in performance per clock, and in performance per $, the K7 "OWNED" the P3 completely. K7 1Ghz was like $250 and a P3 1Ghz was like $500 and the K7 was a tad faster.
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Bingo, the K7 completely owned the P3 in cost vs performance. They basically traded benchmarks, and as you said the P3 was more expensive.

Lets not forget the "high end" P3 and P4 platforms which boasted RDRAM. I felt sorry for people that were actually suckered into that.. RDRAM was the biggest ripoff ever for the performance you got.
 
Astral Abyss said:
You can't succeed as a company when all your executives calling the shots are fucktards and have no vision.
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Those fucktards are executives of a big company, big enough to be a topic of an argument in this forum. If they have no visions, I don't think that they will be where they are now. Btw do I know you? :D
 
Met-AL said:
AMD has always played second fiddle to Intel. The first time they became a real competitor to Intel was with the K7, but Intel managed to hold onto the lead in the end as Intel marketed the hell out of the P4 netburst. When AMD came out with the K8, for the first time, AMD took the entire performance crown from Intel. AMD is now back where it has always been. Hopefully AMD can pull itself back up.



And I suppose in your own little world you would compare a Pentium 3 to a 80486DX4? Why don't you compare a Pentium 3 to the AMD part that was out at the same time? The Athlon K7? Not so much ownage now is there. In fact, I believe the K7 edged by the P3 in performance per clock, and in performance per $, the K7 "OWNED" the P3 completely. K7 1Ghz was like $250 and a P3 1Ghz was like $500 and the K7 was a tad faster.
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I recall AMD's 386 absolutely annihilated Intels... Then they lost it until the k62, which outperformed the PPro... Then they lost it again until they released the K7, which outperformed the P3, then they lost it again until they released the K8 which outperformed the P4

I think there are many parallels with the situation AMD is in today compared to the situation they were in with the 386.... Alot of differences too, being that K8 was there baby, not Intels short of that though it is very similar. PPro kicked AMD's ass, and they were forced into buying NexGen, similar to how they were forced into buying ATi in this round. It took a few years to get a product out the door from that buyout, which are still using today in a much more advanced form... I think the same thing will happen with the ATi purchase.. It is going to take a few years to get a product out the door, but when it comes it will take on all comers, and will be the architecture to build from for years to come.
 
What is with the fan girls lately? God. It's pathetic. If AMD han't bought ATI, they'd still be churning out a healthy profit. I personally thing it was one of the least smart things to do at the time. There were many better ways to spend that sort of money at that time.
 
mwarps said:
. If AMD han't bought ATI, they'd still be churning out a healthy profit. I personally thing it was one of the least smart things to do at the time. There were many better ways to spend that sort of money at that time.
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Like developing a CPU that was worth a damn :)
 
duby229 said:
Dont listen to him man... When AMD was on top, he was saying you shouldnt buy AMD cause Intel was the better company.... :eek:
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A company that actually makes a HEALTHY profit and regains a "small" portion of the market they "let go by accident", is by default a "better company"...:D
 
I think I'm going to start a running tally of the number of threads which start every day saying "Is AMD going to make it?" "How will AMD respond?" etc. etc.

This is ridiculous. All I see here is a bunch of people who don't have any experience working in a company like that, much less running a company of that scale. Meanwhile they're sitting here criticizing things we aren't even sure occurred. I don't have any experience either, so unless you're all CEOs of major tech companies fighting a David vs Goliath battle against a company desperately trying to maintain its monopoly, I think this "I could've done it better" mentality is silly. All I've seen so far is a bunch of fan boys complaining...

It's almost as though the Intel fans forgot about Intel sitting on the Netburst architecture for eons..

AMD will be fine, with the release of Barcelona and its derivatives along with R600 and beyond, things will change. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
 
http://www.overclockers.com/tips01141/

According to AMD's own conference call, by Q4 they will run out of money to make the payments on their loans, even after selling and mortgaging everything they have. In Q4 they do expect to make a profit, but they need someone to buy them time to make it till then.

This is the first time that AMD has been in real trouble, and it isn't fair to say that it can't happen.. Look at 3DFX (bought by Nvidia) look at S3 (bought by Via) look at Cyrix (bought by Via) look at Centaur, (also Via) look at NexGen (bought by AMD): http://www.sandpile.org/

A lot of x86 MFG's have failed, so can AMD or Intel for that matter.

I think that if it came right down to it, Intel will buy stock in AMD to keep them going, just like Microsoft did with Apple when they almost went under. Intel can't afford to let AMD fail or the government will slap them with a monopoly fine that will really hurt.
 
I think that if it came right down to it, Intel will buy stock in AMD to keep them going, just like Microsoft did with Apple when they almost went under. Intel can't afford to let AMD fail or the government will slap them with a monopoly fine that will really hurt.
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Maybe that is AMD's plan muhahahhehehe (look at where Apple is now these days)

Well I for one have been a loyal AMD consumer, I have alot of confidence in them still, many may say you vote with your wallet and dont be a *!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! of any company.. well guess what, "I am voting with my wallet, cause its my damn money and I can purchase whatever the hell I want, it doesnt hurt you now does it?"
 
mwarps said:
What is with the fan girls lately? God. It's pathetic. If AMD han't bought ATI, they'd still be churning out a healthy profit. I personally thing it was one of the least smart things to do at the time. There were many better ways to spend that sort of money at that time.
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lol. I'm an intel Fan-boy, but I have to say, AMD's acquisition of ATI really fucked em up the ass. AMD would still be in the positives if they didn't decide to ATi. Bravo AMD CEO's, you did a good job screwing up your company :). Anyone hear about some company which is looking to buy AMD?

As for the "cyclictical behavior" of dominance in the processor market, I don't think AMD's gone down this far before, and even when intel started losing, they didn't make it into the negatives, they still made a relatively good profit. I mean, Intel lost marketshare when netburst started to age, and they lost profit and didn't meet their quarterly marks, but they didn't go so far into debt as to not even being able to pay off loans WITH mortgage. That's some pretty bad financial position.

if you've read any of the economic analyzers for AMD, they say AMD would have to spend close to one billion dollars to equal and surpass Intel and regain their marketshare. AMD barely has pennies, one billion dollars just to equal intel makes it impossible for AMD to do that, but we'll see. We may be amazed by AMD's barcelona's. 40% faster than Xeon with that great "MONOLITHIC" quad core, ahaha. yields on that are gonna be shit, but back to the topic. AMD's gonna need a miracle to save them right now.

I think that if it came right down to it, Intel will buy stock in AMD to keep them going, just like Microsoft did with Apple when they almost went under. Intel can't afford to let AMD fail or the government will slap them with a monopoly fine that will really hurt.
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Intel did that before in 2000, and intel still got sued for being a monopoly. AMD should really be grateful Intel funds them to stay alive, and I think a lot of these AMD *!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!s also forget that intel paid for that little company to stay afloat once before, and probably again if it gets bad enough. But like i said, there is a prospective buyer on the market right now who might buy AMD, so intel might not have to fork money out for em.
 
I have a friend working for Intel in Oregon and from what he tells me, AMD seem to have a n amazing core of engineers that are very skillful but much of the problem rely on management.

One example of this is when [SIZE=-1]Hector Ruiz arrived at some conference with a Lamborghini while [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Otellini took his Toyota [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Hybrid. Then Mr. Ruiz made a comment of how good AMD was doing because of his "superior" car...

[/SIZE]
 
AMD was in a --MUCH-- worse situation when the bought Nexgen They arent doing too bad right now. I expect they will start picking up ground in the third quarter, and have a profit by the fourth.

History tends to repeat itself, being as how AMD is in simply the best market position they have ever been in, period.... They should be able to pick up ground in short order.
 
amoeba1126 said:
Just go with whatever is best dude.
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QFT

I don't even care about best, just what's a good value and is fast enough to keep me happy. Thanks to the latest price cuts (early), I bought 2 new boards and CPUs, an E4300 and a X2 4400+.

-----

Depending how you look at it, AMD doing poorly might still be a good thing. You can scoop up the perfectly good CPUs they're desperate to sell at rock bottom prices.
 
Tetrahedron said:
Maybe that is AMD's plan muhahahhehehe (look at where Apple is now these days)

Well I for one have been a loyal AMD consumer, I have alot of confidence in them still, many may say you vote with your wallet and dont be a *!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! of any company.. well guess what, "I am voting with my wallet, cause its my damn money and I can purchase whatever the hell I want, it doesnt hurt you now does it?"
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QFT!
 
pxc said:
QFT

I don't even care about best, just what's a good value and is fast enough to keep me happy. Thanks to the latest price cuts (early), I bought 2 new boards and CPUs, an E4300 and a X2 4400+.

-----

Depending how you look at it, AMD doing poorly might still be a good thing. You can scoop up the perfectly good CPUs they're desperate to sell at rock bottom prices.
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Yes and just think, they're holding back Barkie to keep from hurting their great sales LOL!:p
 
amoeba1126 said:
AMD !!!!!! ftl :p Just go with whatever is best dude. Buying from a technology brand simply out of favoritism is simply irrational and quite frankly...stupid. Intel being on top is a recent development if we are comparing this decade. I recall the Pentium 3 OWNED the K6-2?
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rofl, for one there totally different generations, p3 competed with the k7, and my p3 450 got clobbered by my k62 400
 
lol fan-boys can buy whatever the hell they want. its their money to waste. meanwhile, i will be smart and buy whats best at the time with the budget i have. :D its simply retarded to pass over better things just because your a fanatic.
 
mwarps said:
What is with the fan girls lately? God. It's pathetic. If AMD han't bought ATI, they'd still be churning out a healthy profit. I personally thing it was one of the least smart things to do at the time. There were many better ways to spend that sort of money at that time.
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Not really true... they would still be losing a lot of money at this point. The market has shifted by quite a margin towards Intel, and because of the increased R&D that AMD is spending, they are deep into the red. It's fan boys like you who have no clue what's going on that spread rumours!
 
duby229 said:
AMD was in a --MUCH-- worse situation when the bought Nexgen They arent doing too bad right now. I expect they will start picking up ground in the third quarter, and have a profit by the fourth.

History tends to repeat itself, being as how AMD is in simply the best market position they have ever been in, period.... They should be able to pick up ground in short order.
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Nexgen was too long ago for me to remember, was it really that bad then? I can't imagine it getting much worse (financially) for AMD than it already is. Loads of debt, shrinking revenue, ASPs, GPMs and marketshare, being 2 quarters from running out of cash... etc etc

Shit dude, how much worse can it get?

Though I must say I do like your unwavering enthusiasm about AMDs future. ;) :D
 
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