Hardware Unboxed Considers Ending Day One GeForce Coverage

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by AlphaAtlas, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas [H]ard|Gawd Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,713
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    RTX 2060 reviews are up across the web, or at least they are on sites that signed Nvidia's NDA. But Steve Walton of Hardware Unboxed, who also writes some of TechSpot's hardware reviews, just posted an update to their RTX 2060 coverage. Apparently, Hardware Unboxed still hasn't received the RTX 2060 they were promised, and Steve suspects that's because Techspot's previous RTX review scores were slightly less than perfect. Thanks to cageymaru for the tip.

    I'm not going to put any more words into his mouth, so you should check out his reasoning in the video here.

    In his latest Hardware Unboxed video however he's inevitably feeling a little cranky. We'll let him explain in his own words, but long story short TechSpot/HUB did not receive an RTX 2060 graphics card for review like most other outlets. In fact, while following the regular process to get early access to the new hardware, we were left out in the cold, without prior knowledge the 2060 reviews would go live right after CEO Jensen Huang's keynote. Considering we're one of the few teams doing the kind of in-depth benchmarking and day one coverage on things such as ray tracing and DLSS, as well as our long history of reviewing Nvidia products... that may be more than enough reason to feel overly frustrated about this. Perhaps, Nvidia was feeling a little frustrated themselves when we didn't give their RTX hardware the warm reception they expected (see our top GPU picks here), but we'll stick to our methods and continue to provide the most honest reviews we can.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  2. TheOne&OnlyZeke

    TheOne&OnlyZeke 100% Irish

    Messages:
    10,218
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2000
    OooOOoooo nVidia are a bunch of spiteful bitches aren't they
     
    Darth Kyrie, Jim Kim, Sikkyu and 19 others like this.
  3. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,724
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    So if nVidia beaches their own NDA can you consider it terminated?
     
  4. This is a pretty bitchy little rant. WTF did they expect. Act like a 12 year old, get treated like one.

    "There’s meant to be something else, some other advantage to buying these new Nvidia GeForce RTX graphics cards, I just can’t remember what it is... Oh, wait silly me, it’s in the name, Ray Tracing. The RTX 2080 Ti packs 10 Giga Rays per second of Ray Tracing performance and right now you can utilize a total of 0 Giga Rays per second."
     
  5. Rahh

    Rahh [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,608
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    This is really another opportunity for AMD to swoop in on. NVIDIA's RTX cards aren't shining like the ray tracing should allow. ;) If only AMD had something up their sleeves with their graphics also. Hmmmm!
     
    Darth Kyrie and GDI Lord like this.
  6. hlfbkd420

    hlfbkd420 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    279
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    I'm glad I have no need to upgrade for a long time. I can wait for AMD to release something new. If it's better than a 1080ti I'll be happy.
     
    Vercinaigh, travisty, jeffj7 and 2 others like this.
  7. We will find out very soon. AMD takes the stage at CES this morning!

     
    Vader1975 likes this.
  8. Vader1975

    Vader1975 Gawd

    Messages:
    814
    Joined:
    May 11, 2016
    Honestly, I'm happy with my twin water-cooled Vega Frontiers so I'm already good.
     
  9. coynatha

    coynatha Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    260
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    I gotta say I'm not surprised. I skimmed thru Toms 2060 review, and they give the impression the RTX 2060 is fine for playing BFV at 1080p w/ raytracing on. Yet, here at HardOCP, it's shown pretty clear, actually PLAYING the game, that it will probably be a slide show. (going from the 2080/2070 articles)

    There's clearly bias.
     
    Darth Kyrie and Revdarian like this.
  10. rudedog

    rudedog Gawd

    Messages:
    732
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    What do people expect? Sign NDAs, get free samples or get flown out to events on the vendors dime. You give a review they don't like, they will pull your free stuff and or put you on the back burner.

    Review sites should always state up front what was given to them for a review. Had to sign NDA, this is a free sample from said vendor and/or they paid for my flight, hotel, meals, gave me company swag​

    I always wait for those sites that have to pay for their review sample and or software over sites that where given a free ride. I take those reviews much more seriously, even if the review is "late" compared to other sites.

    Disclosure: I was blacklisted from EA after my MOH:Airborne review (Note, EA paid for my Fort Bragg, flight, hotel, meals, swag) after my MOH:Airborne review. EA/Activision always hated that I stated up front what was paid for or what accommodations I received for the review I made. I was always brutally honest and paid the price with not getting early review samples or flown out to LA to see the game(s) early.
     
  11. katanaD

    katanaD [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,987
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    yet another reason why when asked by kyle if he should sign nvidia NDA.. i voted NO

    dont care about day 1 "reviews". they always get cherry picked hardware and if they dont step in line.. there will be issues.. next time. oops. did we forget to send YOU a new product to review??

    All i want is real world reviews.. on hardware that can be bought. One of the reasons i come here.
     
  12. byusinger84

    byusinger84 Gawd

    Messages:
    766
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    I respect reviewers like this who don't give up their integrity just for the privilege of being first. It's why I love [H].

    Also, shame on nVidia for doing this. I love my GTX 1080ti, but I cannot wait for AMD to get back into the game at the top end. Same reason I switched from Intel to AMD. I had been with Intel since the Core 2 days. Once Ryzen came out and was actually competitive again, I was all for going back.
     
  13. DarthBeavis

    DarthBeavis 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,221
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    I like hearing reviewers whine. The tech hardware industry is such a fucking shill game. So glad I am not involved any longer.
     
  14. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,946
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    I watched the whole video. Yes, he is whining a bit, no way around it, but he's being honest and other then when he said "pissed off" I detected little aggressive emotion. You throw accusations around way too fast. If we were talking about AdoredTV I would 100% agree that dude hates nvidia and it's obvious. Tim's behaviour is far from that of a child.
     
    Revdarian and Toconator like this.
  15. ir0nw0lf

    ir0nw0lf [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,286
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Sounds to me that if one didn't raise a RTX card in the air and praise it as the 2nd coming you got told to RTX GTFO. :D
     
    Darth Kyrie likes this.
  16. homernoy

    homernoy Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    440
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    This crap Nvidia is pulling is really inexcusable. AMD is sorely missed in the high end GPU market.
     
    DrezKill, GDI Lord, iamjanco and 4 others like this.
  17. Sonicks

    Sonicks [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,401
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Haven't all reviews of RTX cards been "slightly less than perfect"? Far as I know every day one reviewer has knocked the RTX launch because of bad price to performance, lack of games supporting the R features of the RTX, and the terrible performance of DXR with Battlefield V.
     
  18. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

    Messages:
    772
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    2 months after the launch and ray tracing is still limited to one title and a few tech demos. :ROFLMAO:

    Nvidia still expects to get glowing reviews? :confused: :banghead:

    Go home, Nvidia. You're (marketing department is) drunk. :coffee:
     
  19. cjcox

    cjcox [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,132
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Predicting that everyone will ditch Nvidia because of this. (it could happen, just like everyone could ditch Marvel for DC)
     
  20. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,488
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004

    Sorry but those of us that did buy the RTX 2080 ti, like myself had the wisdom and intellect to know well ahead of time that we were not getting a whole lot of RTX content this generation. Those who were promised the world and believed nVidia on those promises were / are fools. It's never worked that way and never will.

    I bought the RTX 2080 ti for it's raw power.

    Even next gen RTX cards will not see very many games with RT. It's just a fact of life.

    Once RT can be done at 4K @ 120fps Ultra Settings then we will see Devs put in that effort.
     
    xmadror likes this.
  21. iamjanco

    iamjanco Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    442
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    "Performance is single digits overall, and thus far NVIDIA can shove ray tracing where you can't see rays cast."

    Loved it.
     
  22. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,306
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    just like the rest of these threads I am going to state:

    The reviewers made that bed with NVidia and let them think they were as a god. I sincerely hope they enjoy the bed that they made.
     
    Darth Kyrie and Stimpy88 like this.
  23. Chebsy

    Chebsy Gawd

    Messages:
    524
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    So, even when you sign an Nvidia NDA, you may not get a card to review for day 1 !! No point in signing it really !!
     
    Darth Kyrie, DrezKill and Revdarian like this.
  24. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,180
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
  25. Teenk9

    Teenk9 Gawd

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
  26. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,039
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    It's funny how he's still trying to tow the line, after being fucked over for several launches, trying to maybe get in Nvidia's good graces again. You shouldn't have to be bought out by the Vendor providing hardware to make a timely review. It's a sleazy business practice, and not only is it further highlights the false media front that is prevalent throughout government, media, and business today. Fortunately the world of hard launches is essentially gone, and we're stuck with mostly paper launches, however, withholding drivers so that you can't actually test your cards until launch day is another bullshit business practice that can sod off.

    Videocard companies know that most tech sites rely on the very few gpu releases and cpu releases to boost their numbers. No matter how you try people just don't turn up in numbers for nvme drives or other random accessories that aren't the brains of a computer. While there are more hardware review sites than ever on the market, it's setting a dangerous precedent to reward Nvidia for cherry picking review sites to distribute to. If I were a factory worker I'd call them scabs and throw my lunch at them.
     
  27. Toconator

    Toconator Gawd

    Messages:
    696
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Although the [H] is the first tech site I hit while browsing and I really appreciate and respect the GPU reviews that Brent and Kyle do, I'm not an eggs in one basket type and grab a few other reviews too. HU/Techspot is high on the list as their methods and opinions have always been fair and rational. I don't blame Steve for being a little miffed after being mislead even after signing an NDA (glad Kyle didn't - I voted No). Anyone who downgrades a card based on price/performance instead of just sheer performance is justified. Value is not overrated. RTX cards have been too damn expensive so far, if prices were lower then scores would likely be higher. Most reviewers slammed the RX590 as not being worth the extra $$ over RX580 just a few weeks ago. Doubt AMD is going to take umbrage with that. Although the RTX2060 has a more realistic MSRP I don't see it as a replacement for my 1070Ti just yet but if I was coming from a weaker card I'd consider it. AMD just announced Radeon 7 which I'm sure pushed the 2060's out a little sooner than NV would like as theres still plenty of 1060's in the channel. Lets see what the next few weeks brings ...
     
    lostin3d and Revdarian like this.
  28. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

    Messages:
    772
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Thanks for taking one for the team. I shall benefit from your sacrifice some day.
     
  29. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

    Messages:
    5,848
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013

    Negative. Once RT is available in console hardware provided by AMD, we will see devs put some effort into Ray tracing.
     
    Darth Kyrie likes this.
  30. Ehren8879

    Ehren8879 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,259
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Sounds like the Science Studio grumping about the Ryzen launch samples.
     
    Ocellaris likes this.
  31. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    53,742
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    NVIDIA is one of the worst about that, but they are far from the only one.
     
    GoldenTiger and DrezKill like this.
  32. Nytegard

    Nytegard 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,110
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2004
    Reviews where the people get free stuff and have no skin in the game night not tell the truth, and you should be skeptical? I’m shocked!
     
  33. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,031
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    I think an industry leader should end NDA completely and just ship off the shelf parts a little early to review sites of certain size, and call it a day.
     
  34. You missed my point. I was talking about the text of his original review. I posted the text again for you below. Nvidia is banking on this new tech as a market differentiator.

    a. He mocks their new flagship tech in his review.
    b. He does not get a new review sample.

    Seems like legit behavior from Nvidia to me. Most companies don't enjoy being mocked for their development efforts. :)

    I think the recent quote from Nvidia at CES about AMD's release reinforces how important they think this tech is: ""'The performance is lousy and there's nothing new." "[There's] no ray tracing, no AI. It's 7nm with HBM memory that barely keeps up with a 2080. And if we turn on DLSS we'll crush it. And if we turn on ray tracing we'll crush it.'"

    "There’s meant to be something else, some other advantage to buying these new Nvidia GeForce RTX graphics cards, I just can’t remember what it is... Oh, wait silly me, it’s in the name, Ray Tracing. The RTX 2080 Ti packs 10 Giga Rays per second of Ray Tracing performance and right now you can utilize a total of 0 Giga Rays per second."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2019
  35. Back in the day there were two maybe three credible guys doing reviews. There was Dr.Tom, Kyle, and I think Anand came up a few years later. Kyle is the real deal and always has been.

     
    GoldenTiger and Darth Kyrie like this.
  36. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,946
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Sorry, I just see some rightfully earned sarcasm, not much petulance.
     
  37. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Gawd

    Messages:
    923
    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    I want real real reviews. They must include voltage control/ VRM design and specific IC part numbers found on the cards. Spamming a bunch of benchmarks isn't much of a review. I know there are a ton of AIB making cards, but you live the reviewer's life... plenty of cards to do thorough reviews.
     
  38. Chaos Machine

    Chaos Machine Gawd

    Messages:
    560
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Seems like a pretty accurate statement at the time, all of the criticism on nvidia is about value and more specifically performance per dollar. Nvidia needed something to justify a price hike higher than raw performance gains and their answer was rtx. Clearly the market reacted in a fashion they were not expecting.

    Think about it, if nvidia had simply added the rtx feature and jacked their prices up 50 bucks no one would be bitching to this degree..