HardOCP and HardForum on Patreon

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
51,028
Some of you have likely noticed the "Become a Patron" graphic on our pages. The short of this is that about 65% of our readers use some form of adblocking software, and ads is the PRIMARY way we make money to pay for all of the editors to create content, and to pay for all of the hardware, software, and admin needs associated with those.

As you might guess, many of our readers prefer to run ad blockers on websites nowadays. And honestly, I get it. I use an adblocker too, but I do my best whitelist those sites that I use regularly or I feel as though have done a good job with their content. However, I do also understand that many [H] readers are savvy to malware and do know that it has been spread through advertisements in the past, and therefore choose to run adblock even on sites that they frequent. I cannot hold that against you. No bad blood here! We do our best to keep our ads on target and out of your face in order to not give you a bad experience.

If you have been looking for a way to allow HardOCP and HardForum to continue to produce enthusiast computer hardware content and give you a community to participate in, Patreon could very well be it. I have now had enough readers ask for a way to support [H] that I think this is the right thing to do.

If you support HardOCP and HardForum through Patreon, I want to say, "Thank you very much. Your support is tremendously appreciated." You know who you are. We promise not to spend it all on beer.
 
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Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
I ceased using Adblock on this site years ago due to your then professed disdain for it (Justified), threats of banning and simply because it was the right thing to do. However I would like to ask what would be the amount monthly that you consider your website worth if one were to utilize patreon and reenable adblock would you have no qualms against that person? Again for me this question is more derived from the risk of malware, even though you have honestly been stellar in keeping tight controls on the ads. I'm not saying I'm looking to make this change right this second as it has been a terrible year for me and every penny of my budget is spent and then some, but for future reference if I wanted to make that decision. For now ads will remain enabled as I am not in the position to change that (hence my absence from gen may). I'm guessing the amount should be somewhere in the $3-$5 a month range, but I don't know what your analytics look like and what your cost per view is so I could be terribly low. I know that at this point I have a lot of time invested into this community and don't want to lose it like so many others in the past and when I'm in a better position I would like to be able to support more.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
11,450
I just wish the become patron button was less in your face. Or is it just my monitor? As it seems extremely bright and distracting to me. Please either make it fit in with the forum colors, or at least put it on the top in line with the ads.
Or I will to do the unthinkable and block the patreon button itself :D
 

bigdogchris

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
18,216
I just wish the become patron button was less in your face. Or is it just my monitor? As it seems extremely bright and distracting to me. Please either make it fit in with the forum colors, or at least put it on the top in line with the ads.
Or I will to do the unthinkable and block the patreon button itself :D
So it blends in and no one see it, just like ads that are blocked?
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
11,450
So it blends in and no one see it, just like ads that are blocked?
The ads that are not blocked in my case.

Anyhow I'm certain if someone wants to donate they can find it. At least put it in a notification box that can dismissed. Like the pinned news items. It can even be recurring, maybe once a week.
 

Jim Kim

2[H]4U
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
3,756
I'm color blind so the Patrone button ain't nothing but a thing.
Maybe you should make it a single black pixel that is impossible to find unless you know where to click. /s
 

Monkey34

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Messages
5,128
Blocking ads on [H]?

 

PhaseNoise

2[H]4U
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
3,281
Truly a few bucks a month is completely fair for the amount of news and entertainment the site provides.

Could probably get even more money if the Vega Rumor Thread Catfight had wet t shirt combatants instead of just the normal dudes arguing about power draw and shader units.
 

Valset

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
6,533
um, is that the only option on the page? (its showing only a dollar a month for me) and is there a way GM members could get credit for it? (ie not having to remember to send the 5 bucks? my cluttered brain loves auto stuff)
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
51,028
um, is that the only option on the page? (its showing only a dollar a month for me) and is there a way GM members could get credit for it? (ie not having to remember to send the 5 bucks? my cluttered brain loves auto stuff)
Patreon and GenMay subscription are two different things.

If you want to Patron more than a dollar, all you have to do it type it in once you have clicked it.

As for forgetting to reup GenMay, it is $15 one time fee for a lifetime sub. (25 years)
 

skydriver

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
138
I've been lurking here for many, many, years. I don't want it going the way of other sites, being bombed with crappy adds...
I'm in for the lifetime sub. Can someone provide me a link or instructions? I much prefer a 1 time transaction. Doesn't mean I wont give more down the line when I can :)
 

rgMekanic

[H]ard|News
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
5,100
I've been lurking here for many, many, years. I don't want it going the way of other sites, being bombed with crappy adds...
I'm in for the lifetime sub. Can someone provide me a link or instructions? I much prefer a 1 time transaction. Doesn't mean I wont give more down the line when I can :)

At the top of the page on the right mouse over your username, then go to "account upgrades."

And thank you :)
 

iamjanco

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
460
I'm in (patreon), $10,000/month (not quite). But you should have got my first "donation" earlier today.

Do we get a merit badge for that? :p
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
51,028
I'm in (patreon), $10,000/month (not quite). But you should have got my first "donation" earlier today.

Do we get a merit badge for that? :p
So I have been looking for something like a badge, would like to do something like the "staff member" badge on mine. However it looks like Xenforo has not software to integrate with Patreon, so I would need to hire a PHP coder to get something like this done. If anyone has any feedback, I am all ears. We should be able to get something done that IDs by email on your Patreon and match with the Forum to accomplish this.
 

mashie

Mawd Gawd
Joined
Oct 25, 2000
Messages
4,223
It will be interesting to see how the new Chrome browser will work out since it is supposed to block "bad ads" while still showing the harmless ones. It should hopefully restore some of the ad revenue.
 

c3k

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,238
I just signed up...because Kyle on a street corner holding a "Will Review for Food" sign is too terrible to contemplate.

(I'm new to Patreon. WTF is the difference between "pledge" and "reward"??? I could not zero out the reward without the website going into conniptions.)

Shrug. Take my money. Then, feel free to send me your left-over hardware. ;)
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,611
Hey, I just got a notice email from Patreon saying they are changing how they charge for this stuff.

This is how they explained it;
Aside from Patreon’s existing 5% fee, a creator’s income on Patreon varies because of processing fees every month. They can lose anywhere from 7-15% of their earnings to these fees. This means creators actually take home a lower percentage of your pledge than you may realize. Our goal is to make creators’ paychecks as predictable as possible, so we’re restructuring how these fees are paid.

Starting December 18th, we will apply a new service fee of 2.9% + $0.35 that patrons will pay for each individual pledge. This service fee helps keep Patreon up and running.

If I understand them correctly, you'll get less from small pledges, but larger ones could bring you in more green. Do I have that right?
 

Emission

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
4,401
Hey, I just got a notice email from Patreon saying they are changing how they charge for this stuff.

This is how they explained it;


If I understand them correctly, you'll get less from small pledges, but larger ones could bring you in more green. Do I have that right?

They're shifting the bulk of the fee from the creator to the patron. It used to be 5% + 7-15% for the creator. Now it's 5% for the creator and 2.9% + $0.35 for the patron. Kyle gets less fees taken out of his donations but may lose some donors in the process.
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,611
They're shifting the bulk of the fee from the creator to the patron. It used to be 5% + 7-15% for the creator. Now it's 5% for the creator and 2.9% + $0.35 for the patron. Kyle gets less fees taken out of his donations but may lose some donors in the process.

Guy, the money is a donation, it's only coming from one place, so the fee can only come from the donation, the patron. And the only persons effected by the fee are the creator and patreon themselves.

So 5%+7-15% mean the creator loses out that much of the donation. Now I don't know how they applied that shifting 7-15%, so this is part of why I am asking.

But this new billing scheme doesn't include the original 5% according to how they worded this. It is a flat processing fee of 2.9% + a flat thirtyfive cents per pledge which I am assuming that this is out of every donation.

So let's say you have a person making a one time donation of $60, the creator pays $1.74 + $0.35 = $2.09 ?
But another person pledges $5 a month, and the creator looses 8.7 cents, round it up to $0.09 + $0.35 = $0.44 a month and over the course of 6 months ($60 from the donator), the creator pays $5.28
And if you have a little pledging like myself that pledges a small recurring thank you, it becomes a nice thought that counts only a little.
12 months @ $1 = $0.38 leaving only $.062 a month for the creator. I sent in $12 for the year and Kyle gets to keep $7.44 of it.

Until Dec 18th, Kyle got to keep $.80 on the dollar worst case scenario on a $1 pledge or $9.60 annually ... worst case.
But after the 18th, I can throw Kyle a single $12 contribution and he gets to keep $11.30

I think I am getting this right, and I think Patreon has analyzed how people contribute and figured out how to grab more of the pie from the largest type of contributions, small recurring donations.
 

Emission

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
4,401
Guy, the money is a donation, it's only coming from one place, so the fee can only come from the donation, the patron. And the only persons effected by the fee are the creator and patreon themselves.

So 5%+7-15% mean the creator loses out that much of the donation. Now I don't know how they applied that shifting 7-15%, so this is part of why I am asking.

But this new billing scheme doesn't include the original 5% according to how they worded this. It is a flat processing fee of 2.9% + a flat thirtyfive cents per pledge which I am assuming that this is out of every donation.

So let's say you have a person making a one time donation of $60, the creator pays $1.74 + $0.35 = $2.09 ?
But another person pledges $5 a month, and the creator looses 8.7 cents, round it up to $0.09 + $0.35 = $0.44 a month and over the course of 6 months ($60 from the donator), the creator pays $5.28
And if you have a little pledging like myself that pledges a small recurring thank you, it becomes a nice thought that counts only a little.
12 months @ $1 = $0.38 leaving only $.062 a month for the creator. I sent in $12 for the year and Kyle gets to keep $7.44 of it.

Until Dec 18th, Kyle got to keep $.80 on the dollar worst case scenario on a $1 pledge or $9.60 annually ... worst case.
But after the 18th, I can throw Kyle a single $12 contribution and he gets to keep $11.30

I think I am getting this right, and I think Patreon has analyzed how people contribute and figured out how to grab more of the pie from the largest type of contributions, small recurring donations.

I worded it poorly, it's a matter of how much of the donation the creator loses, and how much the donor has to pay to make each donation. To clarify, the creator lost a flat 5% in both cases, old and new scheme, but now, the donor has to pay extra on top of his or her donation to make that donation. Let me correct your examples:

So let's say you have a person making a one time donation of $60, the creator pays $1.74 + $0.35 = $2.09 ?

Not quite. 5% of $60 is $3. The creator loses that 5% out of the $60, so the creator gets $57. Now, on top of that, the donor has to pay 2.9% + $0.35 on $60. So the donor effectively pays $62.09 to donate $60.

But another person pledges $5 a month, and the creator looses 8.7 cents, round it up to $0.09 + $0.35 = $0.44 a month and over the course of 6 months ($60 from the donator), the creator pays $5.28

Out of $5, the creator gets $4.75. On top of $5, the donor has to pay an extra $0.50 ($5.50 in total). Over the course of 6 months, the creator gets $28.50 in their pocket, and the donor pays $33.

And if you have a little pledging like myself that pledges a small recurring thank you, it becomes a nice thought that counts only a little.
12 months @ $1 = $0.38 leaving only $.062 a month for the creator. I sent in $12 for the year and Kyle gets to keep $7.44 of it.

Kyle gets to keep more of what he would normally get, the problem is that now the donors have to pay more than the donation amount to make the donation. Kyle keeps $0.95 of every dollar, but as a donor, if you're only pledging a dollar, that turns into a $1.38 cost to you each time.

So all in all, a lot of people who rely on a lot of $1 to $5 donations are going to lose a lot of their donor base, especially those donors who make a lot of $1 pledges to a lot of different creators.

One last example: As a donor/patron, here are a couple of scenarios you could encounter.
- You make $1 pledges to 10 different creators. In the old system, you only paid $10 in total. Now, since each of those pledges cost you $1.38, you pay $13.80 in total.
- You make a $10 pledge to one creator. In the old system, you only paid $10 in total, same as above. Now, you pay $10.64.

At this point you're probably thinking to yourself "holy shit that's quite a difference." Well, this is the exact problem with the new system, and the major reason a lot of creators are going to lose a lot of their base.
 
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RedWagnum

Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Messages
589
Personally I would be more inclined to donate if the service provided a way to make an annual donation. I have enough monthlies to keep track of. For me $25 a year would be easier than $2 a month. Even some kind of direct payment as lcpiper mentioned would be good.
 
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
2
Hi,
Just signed up on patreon as a creator a while ago. Still did not post jet.
But do have to admit that have some conserns about the flaxibility and choice that creators and users have.
1. For example can someone shere and sign up for creating multiple conten? Like video games, joga, music, dancing or any other relavant form of education, entertaiment or what so ever?
2. If yes can someone who wants to suport whit his pledges, can he pick only one for of those creations, like video games for example form a producer that works in different areas?
3. Lets say one does yoga or music only? Can he or she who wants to support pick to ether watch and plage only one type of content? Lets say only recorderd stuff or live?
4. Is it possible that someone could not be limitied on the lover site of the invested amount?
5. Like for instence there might be a limit to one dolar on the minimum amount posible to pladge. Wouldnt it make alot more sence if somene that wants to suport multiple artists could plage rather than to one artist the one unit per creation rather 100 cents to 100 different people per creation? In terms of conecting people it might make a massive diference?
6. Whit respect to the managment, but how meny people are aveare that in some cuntrys people do earn less that 1 USD per hour and there for how tough it must be for some of them to actualy support or donate? Could, has, would or will removing limitations give creators and users more fredom of choice, more oppurtunitys, more flexibility and the ability to conect to each other on an more profund level?
7. What about pladging one song out of ten whit "x" amount insted of plaging ten whit "y" amount? Would that feel much bether to the consumer? And wouldnt it create an much bether Picture for the avarage producer about what people like more?
8. If almost the whole web and advertising system on the net can work whit 0.x cents would it be more fair to alow the same freedom for an regular user to?

Do we wana be like cows in the stable or rather more like birds escaped form the net?

Might not want to judge what is if dont realy fully understand what is not.
 

SighTurtle

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
1,412
Hi,
Just signed up on patreon as a creator a while ago. Still did not post jet.
But do have to admit that have some conserns about the flaxibility and choice that creators and users have.
1. For example can someone shere and sign up for creating multiple conten? Like video games, joga, music, dancing or any other relavant form of education, entertaiment or what so ever?
2. If yes can someone who wants to suport whit his pledges, can he pick only one for of those creations, like video games for example form a producer that works in different areas?
3. Lets say one does yoga or music only? Can he or she who wants to support pick to ether watch and plage only one type of content? Lets say only recorderd stuff or live?
4. Is it possible that someone could not be limitied on the lover site of the invested amount?
5. Like for instence there might be a limit to one dolar on the minimum amount posible to pladge. Wouldnt it make alot more sence if somene that wants to suport multiple artists could plage rather than to one artist the one unit per creation rather 100 cents to 100 different people per creation? In terms of conecting people it might make a massive diference?
6. Whit respect to the managment, but how meny people are aveare that in some cuntrys people do earn less that 1 USD per hour and there for how tough it must be for some of them to actualy support or donate? Could, has, would or will removing limitations give creators and users more fredom of choice, more oppurtunitys, more flexibility and the ability to conect to each other on an more profund level?
7. What about pladging one song out of ten whit "x" amount insted of plaging ten whit "y" amount? Would that feel much bether to the consumer? And wouldnt it create an much bether Picture for the avarage producer about what people like more?
8. If almost the whole web and advertising system on the net can work whit 0.x cents would it be more fair to alow the same freedom for an regular user to?

Do we wana be like cows in the stable or rather more like birds escaped form the net?

Might not want to judge what is if dont realy fully understand what is not.

https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

Patreon also runs a blog where they offer advice and info: https://blog.patreon.com/
For example, in regards to using a "per creation" vs monthly model, they have this blog post. https://blog.patreon.com/should-your-page-be-monthly-or-per-creation/
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
51,028
Dear creators,

From the bottom of our hearts, we’re truly sorry. Last week’s service fee announcement caused a tough week for you, your patrons, and your teams. We were trying to solve a problem for creators and, in turn, caused more problems for you and your patrons.

You’ve spoken loud and clear. We’re not going to rollout the changes to our payments system that we announced last week, and are currently assessing other options.
 

Riouken

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
210
Even still please keep working on moving to another platform. Just because they backtracked on this doesn't mean they aren't still a scumbag company.
 
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
2

FearTheCow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
5,246
Finally got off my lazy ass and pledged, for the 10+ years of enjoyment I have gotten from the [H] it is well worth it.
 
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