Hades Canyon NUC - Kaby Lake with Vega GPU

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by deruberhanyok, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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    Interesting info, the "Vega" GPU may not actually be a full Vega GPU, or maybe it is, but some features don't seem supported:

    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/kaby-lake-g-vega-polaris-graphics,36844.html

    Reviews:

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12572/the-intel-hades-canyon-nuc8i7hvk-review-kaby-lakeg-benchmarked
    https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8574/intel-hades-canyon-nuc8i7hvk-review/index.html
    https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Intel-NUC8i7HVK-Review-Vega-takes-trip-Hades-Canyon

    Newegg listings:

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102201 (HVK)
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102202 (HNK)

    Two models:

    NUC8i7HVK, $999, with i7-8809G (4C/8T, 3.1GHz base, 4.2GHz turbo, unlocked) and Radeon RX Vega M GH (24 CUs, 64PPC, 4GB HBM2, ~200GB/s bandwidth) 100W package TDP

    NUC8i7HNK, $799, with i7-8705G (4C/8T, 3.1GHz base, 4.1GHz turbo) and Radeon RX Vega M GL (20 CUs, 32 PPC 4GB HBM2, ~180GB/s bandwidth) 65W package TDP

    lots of IO (2x USB-C thunderbolt 3.0, 7USB ports, dual mDP outputs, dual HDMI 2.0b (one front), two NICs, 8265 wifi-ac, 2x m.2 slots for SSDs and support for DDR4-2400 (couldn't find anything about higher mem clocks on the unlocked version).

    Of other potential interest: a little bigger than the Skull Canyon system but with more capable cooling. Anandtech's review doesn't have noise measurements but it's mentioned in the comments the 100W version is roughly comparble on noise.

    Also of interest, seems Intel has for some reason bypassed some of their own iGPU's video playback capabilities, so the UHD blu-ray playback seems like it isn't happening.

    There are other OEM SFF boxes that will be more capable but also more expensive: ASRock's Deskmini GTX 1060 (needs a processor added, putting entry price at about $1000, give or take a bit), Zotac's ZBOX with 1060 (starts at $800, arguably not quite the same since it has a "T" desktop proc in it, but still in the ballpark) and Gigabyte's Brix with 1060 (seems to be ~ $1200). So for the performance on offer the prices seem roughly in-line with other OEMs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  2. St1X

    St1X [H]Lite

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    I have a 100Watt SKU, it's an amazing little beast, but I haven't used it much. It can play a lot of modern games at 60 FPS on high settings and that is, god damn, impressive!
    I am not sure how much I can talk about it, though
     
  3. Kaos_Drem

    Kaos_Drem Gawd

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    Just remember that intel doesn't set the price on the NUC products. The distributors do, the price is a suggest retail but it can often fall quite a bit based on demand/supply.
     
  4. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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    St1X that's awesome! 1080p I'm assuming? I feel like this is a great form factor and is really the killer setup for a "steam box". But the price puts it way out of range of anyone cross-shopping with a console.

    If you can't talk about it that's cool, but if you can provide any kind of impression, how would you rate the noise compared to, say, the Skull Canyon NUC?

    Kaos_Drem yeah, hoping we'll see some good discounts on this eventually.
     
  5. St1X

    St1X [H]Lite

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    Yes, 1080p.

    Can't say anything objective about noise yet, I have it at my work and I am sitting in the corner with ~20 computers for 4 people, most of them working simultaneously :)
    But some times I can hear it's fan spining faster, giving you this laptop like noise experience. But if you are gaming, you will either use headphones or speakers, so that sound wouldn't bother you.
    I am pretty sure there will be proper review of it soon.
     
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  6. Kaos_Drem

    Kaos_Drem Gawd

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    Most early engineering samples of products tend to not have fan profiles setup correctly either, so who knows it might be quieter for end users.
     
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  7. ajkates

    ajkates [H]Lite

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    I'm pretty excited about this though. Yes, price-wise we can build something much more capable for less, but not in this form factor (7L vs 1.2L). Looking forward to having one of the 100w skus in the bedroom.
     
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  8. Kaos_Drem

    Kaos_Drem Gawd

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    I think a lot of people miss that point. The Ncase M1 while a tiny case by all accounts is more than 10 times the size of the Hades Canyon NUC. 1.2L vs 13L.
     
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  9. Revenant_Knight

    Revenant_Knight Limp Gawd

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    It's impressive. Hyperthreading and rear audio ports put it in front of the Zotac EN1060 in my book. However, the noise is TBD and that price...ouch. Should be pretty good for 1080P gaming at locked 30 FPS or locked 60FPS depending on the title. Add a Freesync monitor and it's got potential. Would be really nice if it supports HDMI 2.1 VRR.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  10. Kaos_Drem

    Kaos_Drem Gawd

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    Unfortunately I would not expect HDMI 2.1 support of any kind as the hardware layers and design specification for that was only finalized late last year.
     
  11. Brian_R170

    Brian_R170 [H]Lite

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    Thinking about replacing a system with i7-5775C in a Casetronic/Travla C287 (3.8L, Iris Pro graphics only) with a Hades Canyon NUC.

    I assume the 1.2L does not include the 230W power brick which I also assume is somewhat large.
     
  12. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    That price is tough to swallow even at 1.2L. I feel like I could save myself $500 if I accepted say 5-6L size.
     
  13. St1X

    St1X [H]Lite

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    Yes, psu is external
     
  14. Brian_R170

    Brian_R170 [H]Lite

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    Right. On my Skull Canyon, the external PSU brick is 0.27L, well over 1/3 the volume of the unit.
     
  15. Brian_R170

    Brian_R170 [H]Lite

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    I found a video of the Hades Canyon including the power supply. The PSU is huge, well, relatively. The NUC + PSU are going to be around 2L combined.

    See the PSU at around 1:45. The guy says it's about the same size as a Skull Canyon which he pulls out at 2:10.
     
  16. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nice! They've also posted a look inside:



    It's about the size I figured from pictures, it had to be bulkier than Skull Canyon for all the extra heat. Curious if it "breaks even" on noise with Skull Canyon - I had one sitting on top of my desk for a while and it really wasn't noticeable unless I was running a game on it, but then it was generally drowned out by the game.

    That particular shop is also taking preorders:

    https://www.simplynuc.com/hades-canyon/
     
  17. Kaos_Drem

    Kaos_Drem Gawd

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    Skull Canyon is 211mm x 116mm x 28mm = .685L

    Hades Canyon power brick is 198mm x 98mm x 25mm = .485L (Lite-on Technology PA-1231-12).
     
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  18. chanvathana

    chanvathana n00bie

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    these nucs are awesome. They can do so much and they don't consume that much power for their performance. I was eyeing one of these but then when i saw the posted price. Got turned off. Maybe a hot deal will come along and I can purchase one.
     
  19. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, price is the big downer for me as well.

    Although! With GPU prices the way they currently are, $1000 for a Kaby Lake i7, motherboard, wifi and a Vega 24 might actually be considered "reasonable". :cool:
     
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  20. chanvathana

    chanvathana n00bie

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    GPU prices are up because of crypto...imagine the cost of these if they were used for mining rigs.....
     
  21. ajkates

    ajkates [H]Lite

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    I bought my Skull Canyon w/ 6770hq for ~$550, and it was bundled with a 256gb m.2 and 8gb stick. I just added another matching 8gb stick for $40, so was built all-in for <$600. These will be considerably more expensive, but hopefully some deals will pop up again to make it more reasonable. I love my Skull Canyon NUC. Too bad the brick is so huge, but it's still a very tiny total package.
     
  22. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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    chanvathana I would hope miners don't get so desperate for additional boxes that they would buy up complete $1000 systems that can't have the GPU stripped, but then, I also didn't expect Radeon 550s to be selling for $200 and up at some stores. :(

    Price of Zotac's Zbox with 6GB GeForce 1060 hasn't been affected so I'd think it would be the same here - it's just too expensive at the outset.
     
  23. Putz

    Putz I have a custom title

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    if you want to do some light gaming or 3d work these look pretty nice, i have a couple nucs's at friends, familiy and my tv's and the intel video is pretty much garbage for everything but browsing and surfing . adding some graphics capability is a welcome addition
     
  24. LegoFab

    LegoFab [H]Lite

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    Love this NUC but it take too long time to launch.
     
  25. Kaos_Drem

    Kaos_Drem Gawd

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  26. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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    link isn't working for me, maybe it's down? just taking me to the front page.

    Although I see Newegg is doing a sale right now, hmm...
     
  27. Kaos_Drem

    Kaos_Drem Gawd

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    Fixed link, looks like it is still up to me.
     
  28. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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    it works, looks like the pchound linkification was breaking it. Anyone who wants to look it over, just copy the text.

    TY Kaos_Drem !

    Looks like the embedded GPU is definitively faster than a 1050ti but (going by some fire strike numbers they have posted) falls short of RX 470 / GTX 1060 desktop performance. Pretty impressive for the form factor / power envelope.
     
  29. chx

    chx Gawd

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    Faster than the 1050 Ti? Hot damn. The price? o_O And you need memory and storage too. The Lenovo Legion Y520 for 1300 dollars gives you an i7 7700HQ, 16GB RAM, 2TB HDD, 256GB SSD and an 1060 3GB. Oh and a 15" screen and it's portable. I feel a disconnect.

    Hell, 1300 bucks gets you a Clevo laptop with an 1070 even.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  30. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah. If you're price-comparison-shipping, Newegg even has a sale on right now where you can get Asrock's deskmini GTX 1060 and an i7-7700 for $900. Still need to add RAM and storage to it, but that's $100 less for what seems to be much faster GPU. I've been eyeballing one myself, sale seems to run through tomorrow.

    I think the price is part Intel tax, part tiny form factor tax.

    In my back-and-forth with the Asrock box the other tradeoff is expansion - the NUC has, obviously, a crapton of ports, including Thunderbolt, whereas the Deskmini has room for several more internal drives.
     
  31. Kaos_Drem

    Kaos_Drem Gawd

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    Or $1049 for an Acer Helios 300...7700hq - 16GB ddr4 - 256GB NVME ssd - 1060 6GB...
     
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  32. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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    reviews coming out for the 100W version today, updated the main post.

    Overall, seems like, compared with other OEM SFF desktop systems, the price is about what to be expected for the performance. Very interested in seeing what the 65W version's numbers look.
     
  33. deruberhanyok

    deruberhanyok [H]ard|Gawd

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