GTX 460 supports bitstreaming audio- good HTPC card?

[Wag]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-gf104-fermi,2684.html

Instead, we’re looking at a re-designed chip that employs the Fermi architecture, but sports a different arrangement of resources and about two-thirds of GF100’s complexity—making it a smaller, cooler-running, and believe it or not, more functional (that’s right—this new GPU includes an updated video processor capable of bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio soundtracks from Blu-ray movies). This is a second, much more potent stab at the Radeon HD 5830.

First time I saw this mentioned anywhere and thought it was an important point as it brings nvidia's cards into direct competition with ATI's 5xxx series.

I really hope nvidia decides to do a dual-GPU card based on the GF104 platform (that can bitstream) so I can get rid of my GTX 295 and standalone HDMI audio card.

 

[AltTabbins]

Depends on your tolerance for certain things. Its not silent. Its hot. It takes a lot of power. Personally I wouldn't bother.

Its a gaming card that can drive video well.

 

[Supertag]

150W is still a lot of heat for that type of computer.

 

[Omegas]

the 5700 series trounces it on everything but game playability when it comes to HTPC use. less power on idle and load, less noise, less heat, etc...

 

[AltTabbins]

In my opinion. If you want a htpc, build a htpc. If you want a gaming rig, build a gaming rig.
Its like trying to build a car for gas miledge and stuffing a V8 into it because it has 1 or 2 features to slightly improve its gas mileage.

 

[Omegas]

actually I've got an HTPC with a 5770 in it and it's almost dead silent (need to replace a case fan) except when I'm gaming which is exactly what I wanted.

 

[mesh]

In my opinion. If you want a htpc, build a htpc. If you want a gaming rig, build a gaming rig.
Its like trying to build a car for gas miledge and stuffing a V8 into it because it has 1 or 2 features to slightly improve its gas mileage.

Amen to that. Many times I tried a nice medium but all resulted the same. I did not want to add heat/noise because its an htcp and I did not want to play games because I wasnt happy with performance. But with that being said, others might just want to play games that arent all that demanding so what didnt work for me might work for others. Strict WoW players are a good example of that since that game will run on weak hardware.

 

[niknikktm]

3D TV is fast becoming mainstream. It's selling near as fast as HDTV when it first came on the scene. If you are building a high-end HTPC and want to plan ahead for 3D (or currently if you already have a 3D TV) then the 460 is most likely the best choice. NVidia is the only option for 3D with their 3D Vision and 3D Blu-Ray functionality. ATI doesn't have a solution and doesn't appear to have one on the horizon either. It's really not all that hot by most standards and it's pretty quiet at low RPM according to the reviews I've read on it. Check out this data:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/17

The GTX-460 at idle runs at 34 degrees celcius. The 5770 at idle runs at 40 degrees celcius. The 460 is in fact cooler than the 5750, 5870, 5850, 5830, etc. etc. At load (Crysis) it is still one of the coolest running GPU's (65 degrees) in that class and only 2 degrees warmer than the 5750.

It's relatively cool, quiet, It's 3D capable, and oh yeah, it supports bitstream audio over HDMI for Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio. That makes it the perfect choice for a high-end HTPC in my book.


I'm currently building my "ultimate" HTPC and I have opted for the 1GB version of the GTX-460 for my graphics card which happens to be my next purchase. I also intend to record HD (1080i) and burn dual layer Blu-Ray media. You can't do all that absolutely "silent" with passive cooling, but you can do it fairly "quiet". I'm really not concerned about gaming so this system will run close to idle most of the time. That should keep the fans (CPU and Graphics Card) at low RPM's and these fans are supposed to be pretty quiet at that pace. If I should decide to play games on this set-up, it should easily handle most anything I throw at it with just small increase in noise from fans ramping up to higher RPM's, and I can easily live with that if it's only during gaming.


My build thus far:

Silverstone CW01 Case
Silverstone Strider Series 600W Power Supply
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R
Intel Core i7-930
Arctic Cooling Freezer Xtreme quiet twin tower CPU cooling solution
6GB Kingston ram (running triple channel)
Pioneer BDR-205 Blu-Ray Burner
Hauppage model 1212 HD PVR

I still have to purchase the GTX-460, a couple of 1TB HDD's, and Windows 7 64bit OS.

 

[Abit667]

The GTX-460 at idle runs at 34 degrees celcius. The 5770 at idle runs at 40 degrees celcius. The 460 is in fact cooler than the 5750, 5870, 5850, 5830, etc. etc. At load (Crysis) it is still one of the coolest running GPU's (65 degrees) in that class and only 2 degrees warmer than the 5750.

The temperature it runs at has absolutely nothing to do with the heat output of the card... The 1Gb GTX 460 will dump out 160 watts of heat under load. The 5770 you mentioned is just over 100 watts at full load. Both apparently idle a little under 20 watts though.

 

[Omegas]

an i7 930 for a HTPC, seriously?

just wow...

 

[Matrices]

The temperature it runs at has absolutely nothing to do with the heat output of the card... The 1Gb GTX 460 will dump out 160 watts of heat under load. The 5770 you mentioned is just over 100 watts at full load. Both apparently idle a little under 20 watts though.

Can someone else elaborate on the thermodynamics of this?

The idea that temperature has 'absolutely nothing to do' with heat boggles my mind. Are watts a measurement of heat, or just a measurement of energy consumed?

Clearly temperature must matter more than power consumption when it comes to figuring out how much heat a card produces? Because otherwise, water cooling video cards, which drastically reduces their temperature, would have no effect on reducing the room's ambient temperature (relative to air cooling), but we know that water cooling definitely prevents otherwise hot-running cards from heating up the room (even though those cards are still consuming the same number of watts).

 

[Rizen]

Clearly temperature must matter more than power consumption when it comes to figuring out how much heat a card produces? Because otherwise, water cooling video cards, which drastically reduces their temperature, would have no effect on reducing the room's ambient temperature (relative to air cooling), but we know that water cooling definitely prevents otherwise hot-running cards from heating up the room (even though those cards are still consuming the same number of watts).

Where are you getting this information?

1) The temperature of the card has nothing to do with it's heat output. The temperature of the card has to do with the efficiency of the cooling solution on the video card. If you have a video card that puts out 100w of heat, and the cooling solution on it can dissipate 100w of heat, it will still put out 100w of heat even if you upgrade the cooling solution to dissipate 200w of heat. It will just run cooler on the better cooling solution, because the better cooling solution will remove the heat more effectively. The amount of heat generated doesn't change, and it still goes somewhere - either a radiator, or the air, etc.

2) Water cooling only reduces the temperature that the cards run at. My room is still just as hot with my 5870s on water as it was with them on air.

 

[Tudz]

Can someone else elaborate on the thermodynamics of this?

The idea that temperature has 'absolutely nothing to do' with heat boggles my mind. Are watts a measurement of heat, or just a measurement of energy consumed?

Clearly temperature must matter more than power consumption when it comes to figuring out how much heat a card produces? Because otherwise, water cooling video cards, which drastically reduces their temperature, would have no effect on reducing the room's ambient temperature (relative to air cooling), but we know that water cooling definitely prevents otherwise hot-running cards from heating up the room (even though those cards are still consuming the same number of watts).

Nah he's right. "Heat" is energy transfer, and power is how fast energy is released. Temperature isn't important because different materials will reach different temperatures with the same energy input.

If a card is 200W but has a good heatsink, the card itself might stay cooler but it will be dumping 200 joules of energy per second into the room. A 100W card might have a bad heatsink, so the card itself reaches a higher temperature, but it will only dump 100 joules per second of energy into the room, so the room itself wont heat up as much as the 200W card that's staying cooler. There's other factors involved too, like how the fan is set up will vary how quickly the heat will radiate through the room and could affect the temperature where you sit.... but as long as you assume the room to be a closed system then the higher wattage the card, the hotter your room will be.

Anyway, I dont see why the GTX460 would be such a bad HTPC card, its idle power usage isn't bad compared to a 5770, only its load power. This review has it only 5W more at idle and 10W more when watching a HD movie, and that's the 1gb version, the 768mb version is a few watts less if you're really desperate to save energy.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/nvidia-geforce-gtx-460_6.html

These reviews actually have the GT460 using slightly less power than a 5770 at idle...

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/07/12/nvidia-geforce-gtx-460-graphics-card-review/11
http://www.techspot.com/review/299-palit-inno3d-geforce-gtx-460/page13.html

The only concern is noise, which people say is very quiet, though I can't comment on whether or not its "silent" enough for a HTPC as I dont own one. Are there any "silent" 5770s anyway? I thought they all had fans as well.

 

[requiem99]

The only concern is noise, which people say is very quiet, though I can't comment on whether or not its "silent" enough for a HTPC as I dont own one. Are there any "silent" 5770s anyway? I thought they all had fans as well.

Depends which one you get. I can say with certainty that the MSI and Gigabyte models are extremely quiet. I'd compare them to a single 120mm case fan, Freezer 7 Pro, or something similar. Noise simply isn't an issue.

 

[niknikktm]

Depends which one you get. I can say with certainty that the MSI and Gigabyte models are extremely quiet. I'd compare them to a single 120mm case fan, Freezer 7 Pro, or something similar. Noise simply isn't an issue.

Exactly. The Galaxy on the other hand is a bit noisy. Too noisy for an HTPC. The 3d Vision and Blu-Ray 3d alone are good enough reason to go with a 460 for me. The 260 also has these features but doesn't appear to be powerful enough to handle decent gaming needs.

And again as to the heat, it's comparative at idle and this card will likely run just above idle for most anything you do except for gaming, and when I game I can handle a slight increase in fan noise. No problem there at all. I think the key with the 460 is buying the correct vendor product. It's new and there are about a dozen out right now. I still have to weed thru them and make sure I get one that accels at being quiet and cool by comparison to the other 460's on the market. Chances are there will be one in the near future that takes dead aim at the HTPC segment with regards to these issues. For now I will just settle for the best of the bunch that are currently available. The Gigabyte card looks to be the early leader.

And yes I am using the i7 930. No "wow" about it. I was going to use the 920 but the 930 is just 20 bucks more. I don't subscribe to the mantra that an HTPC needs to be some cheap, slow, budget machine. Especially considering I plan to use it heavily for recording and burning HD content on Blu-Ray media, and still want to play a decent game on it. Add to that the fact that I'm not going to spend my time and money on a build that will be obsolete and hard to find components for in 4 or 5 years ala a P55.

I feel we are now at a point in time with the current hardware available to us where we can build a competent "crossover" HTPC. If I'm going to do it, I'm doing it with the latest features like USB3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s on a platform that will be around for a while longer than the ones that are now considered "budget" platforms. "Budget" is just a codeword for "nearing end of life". This rig is going to last.

 

[niknikktm]

Just an update:

I have finished assembling and configuring my HTPC using the GT 460 and it is indeed quiet. I was a little concerned due to the fact that it has not one but two fans but I can tell you (at least in my build) it's whisper soft. I have the power supply fan, two case fans, the cpu cooler fan and the 460 with it's two fans all running nice and slow and they do not generate much noise at all in the Silverstone CW01 case. The two WD 1TB drives actually produce more noise with their heads when they access data then the ambient noise of everything else combined.

It runs fairly cool (CPU @ 50C) when recording HD video and even when playing command and conquer 4. My next step is to try gaming with something a bit more taxing like Halo Reach in order to see how warm or loud it will get.

Bottom Line: I highly recommend the GTX 460 for a high end HTPC build. We have crossed over the line now. You CAN game on an HTPC and still keep your cool.

 

[ragejg]

LINK

EXPReview Tests GTS 450's HD Audio Bit-streaming Support, Finds It Lacking

According to NVIDIA, the users can enjoy watching movies by connecting the PCs to large screen HDTVs. GTX 460 comes with enhanced audio support over HDMI, including bitstreaming support for Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio over HDMI.

GeForce GTX 460 is NVIDIA’s first graphics card that supports bitstreaming, though AMD Radeon HD 5000 series had already integrated this feature. Besides, Intel’s Core i3/i5 processors are also capable of high-definition audio output.

Better late than never – such an important update is still worthy of rejoice, but we didn’t find many reviews about this. Actually we had a try just following the release of GTX 460, and it turned out that GTX 460 failed to deliver this. We had contacted NVIDIA, and was told that, “the current drivers cannot enable GeForce GTX 460 with bitstreaming support, but the upcoming 260 driver is going to fix this”.

To everyone’s disappointment, there was no option of high-definition audio output, and the same failure happened to the GTS 450 too.

On the very same platform, we tried Radeon HD 5750 graphics card, and it worked.

 

[ND40oz]

LINK

EXPReview Tests GTS 450's HD Audio Bit-streaming Support, Finds It Lacking

Anand already tested it with a 460 and had no issues...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3909/nvidias-geforce-gts-450-pushing-fermi-in-to-the-mainstream/3

Finally, this release enabled bitstreaming audio for the newer members of the 400 series. As you may recall in our GTX 460 article, starting with GF104 NVIDIA has given the hardware the capability to bitstream the lossless audio formats DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD; GF100 and GT21x were limited to 8 channel LPCM. When the GTX 460 launched the drivers weren’t ready, and only unprotected bitstreaming was working. With this release the protected audio path is working, allowing bitstreaming of lossless audio from protected sources such as Blu-Ray discs.

We didn’t have the chance to test this on a GTS 450 as we had to catch a flight to IDF, however we did test this against a GTX 460 with the new drivers and it worked as it was supposed to.

 

[Ryoohki360]

You have to use the latest 260.63 driver and the latest Powerdvd 10 Mark II patch (2113) in order for it to work. I tested it and it worked just fine

 

[Valset]

actually I've got an HTPC with a 5770 in it and it's almost dead silent (need to replace a case fan) except when I'm gaming which is exactly what I wanted.

this, I built one for my mom and it is awesome in it. if the OP wants a 460GTX I would go for AM cooling myself.