GTX 460 now or wait...HD6770?

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Venner

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Hey all. Looking for some buying advice.

I've been running a pair of Radeon X1900s for a few years now, and it's looking like it is time to upgrade. My interconnect cable (remember those?) has gotten finicky and prone to issues, and I'd definitely like more playability (and more/nicer AA/AF) in current games. Heck, those new levels in TF2 (pl_thundermountain, etc) make my video chunk pretty good now. I game on a 24" monitor at 1920x1200.

From all of the reviews I've read, a 1Gb GTX 460 seems to be a great card that would be a worthy upgrade at a reasonable price. However, I haven't been following the market for quite some time. How recent is the card / fermi architecture and how future-proof do we expect it to be? 2-3 years?

It seems to outperform the current HD 5770 pretty well. Is there anything comparable to the 460 near the same pricepoint? ($200ish after sales/rebates/etc would be about right.)

The upper end cards (480, etc) seem to not offer staggeringly better performance for quite a premium in price. I'm slightly hesitant to return to nvidia, since I use a Crossfire motherboard and don't anticipate upgrading that anytime soon; if I got the idea into my head to go SLI later, I'd need a need mobo.

Has anything concrete been released about the 6770 yet? I heard at one point it was just going to be a renumbered 5770, which would be a waste to wait for.

Thanks -- any comments would be helpful.

(System: Intel Core2Duo e6600 @ 3Ghz, 8Gb ram, X1900 x2 Crossfire, MSI 975X motherboard, Enchance 600W SLI PS (relabeled Silverstone Strider 600W), Primary OS: Win7 x64)
 
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If your current rig is giving you playable framerates, Id wait. I dont expect any huge price drops but since its only a month away you might as well grind it out a few more weeks just to see how things shape up.
 
I would wait. The 67xx cards are the ones being released first, and from accounts they should be out within the next two months. If you've been able to handle running your current set-up this long, I don't think it's too much of a wait.

If you just can't wait anymore, the GTX 460 is a great card. They have the benefits of Fermi(mainly great tessellation performance), but have power and thermals under control. Add to that the ability it has to overclock, and you have a $200 monster.
 
I also agree with the people who say wait.

Also, that was an awesome system a few years ago, it's like a blast from the past! I used to have a nearly identicle setup with the E6600 and the X1900XTX, but I only had one. It played BF2 really well :)
 
Given that there is, as of yet, no hard information on just how good the 6xxx will be, I'll go against the grain and say go ahead and pick up a 460. It is a monster card at that price point, and a great value now matter how good the next generation of cards is.
 
I'd wait, but I also believe the rumor that the 67xx will come out in the next two months, and not early 2011.

Venner said:
Is there anything comparable to the 460 near the same pricepoint? ($200ish after sales/rebates/etc would be about right.)
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The 5830 is cheaper and slower, and the 5850 is more expensive and faster. You can find 5850s for ~$260 on newegg, might be able to find a deal and get one even cheaper. If you don't want to wait, I'd go with a 5850 (but I still recommend waiting). Since you can't SLI, the GTX 460 loses a bit of it's luster IMO.
 
6000 series will be a new architecture with new style shaders. It's going to be on 40nm so it likely lost some clusters they were planning for it but the leaked benchmarks show monster tesselation numbers, improved performance over 5xxx by 40% which projects to beating equivalent Fermis by a solid 20%. So yes it appears to be worth waiting for. Additionally since you have a CrossfireX motherboard, that might make the 6000 series more attractive for you.
 
Originally Posted by Gym Rat
If your current rig is giving you playable framerates, Id wait. I dont expect any huge price drops but since its only a month away you might as well grind it out a few more weeks just to see how things shape up.
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Thanks for all of the comments, and I think Gym Rat is right. Some of the rumors I've been able to dig up point to a mid/late October launch for the 67xx parts, with the rest after the new year. That's just over a month off; I think I can wait that long and if nothing surfaces by then -- or if is just a paper launch with no parts in the market to show for it -- the GTX 460 still looks pretty good.

Really, I'm fine as long as the interconnect cable doesn't decide to completely crap out on me. I get artifacting and lines if it isn't positioned just right, but otherwise it works. In terms of performance, I just jack down the settings for now. TF2 is fine except for the new levels. Other games I could really use more oooph in are Bioshock 2 (that one is pretty screwed up too, with the ATI legacy drivers) and the STALKER games, which become unplayable in parts even with res and settings lowered.

I just started Oblivion over with about 6Gb of added high-res textures, etc, and it's a whole new experience -- that makes my GPUs grind pretty good too.

Originally Posted by Gym Rat
Also, that was an awesome system a few years ago, it's like a blast from the past! I used to have a nearly identicle setup with the E6600 and the X1900XTX, but I only had one. It played BF2 really well
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It's funny, but through a friend, I effectively got a buy-one-get-one-free promo on my CPU and video card. I used one for my main PC and one for my home theater PC. I eventually popped the other X1900 into this system for more demanding games; when I get a new card, the X1900s will both go to the media PC.

Guests are going to love playing PC games on a 52" screen :)
 
aldamon said:
They're a little bit hot and power hungry for that role aren't they? My X1900XT was a toaster oven.
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They may be. The power supply in the media PC may also be borderline for Crossfire too, but it'll be worth a shot. Heat I'm not particularly worried about, so much as noise. Those X1900s get annoyingly loud under load at times. I had modded the media PC case to have a couple of large (140mm) and very quiet fans that move a lot of air.
 
Its a single month, you seem to be capable of living with your rig that long, and the 6XXX series look to be huge winners. I think waiting is your best bet.
 
I'd wait about 3-4 weeks for the 6770 reviews. It's supposed to perform somewhere between a 5850 and 5870, and it's supposed to be priced competitivlely with the GTX460 at ~$199. One of the best things about the Barts XT core is that I'll wager it will come with very low stock clocks like the 5850 and 460; leaving plenty of room for overclocking. As a bonus it will have better tessellation performance than GF100375/275 & Evergreen chips. You'll also get 5 display outputs and a modern "Eyefinity+".

It's tough to wait. I don't knock the 460 it is an excellent card at it's price, but it is slower than a 5850. Wait to see a review of an OC'd GTX460 versus an OC'd HD6770 before making your decision. Were like 30 days away from the reviews.
 
jaredpace said:
I'd wait about 3-4 weeks for the 6770 reviews. It's supposed to perform somewhere between a 5850 and 5870, and it's supposed to be priced competitivlely with the GTX460 at ~$199.
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Arggghh!!!! :mad: God, I hope this is just a rumor.........
 
Wait for another proce drop, the HD5850s and GTX460s will start dropping again soon. I just replaced a GTX260 with a eVGA GTX460 1GB SC, and I paid too much. But I am loving the reduced power and heat draw with the nice performance boost.

But it looks like you really need a new motherboard, RAM, and CPU too. That chipset is getting long in the tooth, and I can't imagine a modern powerful card running it's best on that bus with a medeocre dual core.
 
vick1000 said:
Wait for another proce drop, the HD5850s and GTX460s will start dropping again soon. I just replaced a GTX260 with a eVGA GTX460 1GB SC, and I paid too much. But I am loving the reduced power and heat draw with the nice performance boost.

But it looks like you really need a new motherboard, RAM, and CPU too. That chipset is getting long in the tooth, and I can't imagine a modern powerful card running it's best on that bus with a medeocre dual core.
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you have to be joking? a gtx460 is only about 15-20% faster than a gtx260 and in some cases its no faster at all. the gtx460 only uses about 10 watts less under load too so you certainly don't notice that regardless of what you claim.
 
I'd wait for the HD6770 to materialize. Right now it's too hard to tell.

If you need a good card right now the GTX 460 and HD5830 both look good.

All about the price right now.
 
heflys20 said:
Because I'll cry myself a river, that's why. I could have waited a bit.

This makes a lot more sense.
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It's supposed to be around the same price as a 5770 at launch or a little more. So around $159 or a little more. I'm guessing $180 (since that is cheaper than the 1GB-GTX460 that the 6770 should be at least as fast as, if not faster) but since NV is spamming discounted GTX 460s all over the place, it may really wind up right back at $159 after all, so long as NV keeps spamming those buggers.
 
Well, pricing for the gtx 460 1gb has stayed pretty consistent. However, the 768mb has taken some pretty substantial price drops.

If the 6770 sells for $180-200, and performs better than the 460 1gb, then I expect Gtx 460 1gb prices to come tumbling down. All in all, it makes sense to wait if you're in the market for a new card.
 
heflys20 said:
Well, pricing for the gtx 460 1gb has stayed pretty consistent. However, the 768mb has taken some pretty substantial price drops.

If the 6770 seals for $180-200, and performs better than the 460 1gb, then I expect Gtx 460 1gb prices to come tumbling down. All in all, it makes sense to wait if you're in the market for a new card.
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the 768mb model was not selling as well so the prices came down. most enthusiasts are running 1920 and know the 768mb model will not be enough in some cases. at the same time even ignorant consumers will normally pick the card with the higher ram even if they don't need it.
 
cannondale06 said:
you have to be joking? a gtx460 is only about 15-20% faster than a gtx260 and in some cases its no faster at all. the gtx460 only uses about 10 watts less under load too so you certainly don't notice that regardless of what you claim.
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Well, I'm going from a 192 core GTX260 to a 763mhz core GTX460, so there is quite a lot more benefit than what you are listing. The gtx260 idled at 46c when the GTX460 idles a 31c and uses a hell of a lot less watching Bluray and surfing the web.

Oh yeah, the drivers are immature as well, so you can expect another little jump along the line.
 
Wait for a $175 deal (after MIR) on a 1GB GTX 460. I'm sure we'll see a few of those of the course of two months. That way, if the 67xx comes out and knocks the 460's socks off, you won't lose much money when you resell it and buy a 67xx!
 
Just buy something when you want to buy. Waiting is pointless because there's ALWAYS something new not that far off. After all once the 6000 series launches, well nVidia will be launching something new. Then once that is done it'll be time for ATi to launch something and so on.

Updates happen at such a pace the only time to wait really is if it is like the week before a launch or something.

Basically you should upgrade when three conditions are met:

1) You have a need/want for it. Don't upgrade if everything you do runs great and the new upgrade won't improve it.

2) You have the money to do so.

3) There is something out that you like. Obviously if you aren't happy with your options, then don't bother.

If those three things are true, then get something. Otherwise you get stuck in a perpetual wait state. Consider that the 5870 launched September 23 2009. Its replacement will launch in October or November so it lasted like 12 months. Also consider the GTX480 launched March 26 of this year. Thus you can expect sometime probably beginning of next year to see a replacement for it. Of course in both cases a bit later you'll probably see some more mid range parts and so on and so forth.

With graphics especially, there's just never a time that something new isn't a few months away. So you just have to buy when you want something and when there is something you'd like to have.
 
Sycraft said:
Just buy something when you want to buy. Waiting is pointless because there's ALWAYS something new not that far off. After all once the 6000 series launches, well nVidia will be launching something new. Then once that is done it'll be time for ATi to launch something and so on.

Updates happen at such a pace the only time to wait really is if it is like the week before a launch or something.

Basically you should upgrade when three conditions are met:

1) You have a need/want for it. Don't upgrade if everything you do runs great and the new upgrade won't improve it.

2) You have the money to do so.

3) There is something out that you like. Obviously if you aren't happy with your options, then don't bother.

If those three things are true, then get something. Otherwise you get stuck in a perpetual wait state. Consider that the 5870 launched September 23 2009. Its replacement will launch in October or November so it lasted like 12 months. Also consider the GTX480 launched March 26 of this year. Thus you can expect sometime probably beginning of next year to see a replacement for it. Of course in both cases a bit later you'll probably see some more mid range parts and so on and so forth.

With graphics especially, there's just never a time that something new isn't a few months away. So you just have to buy when you want something and when there is something you'd like to have.
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You advice is like telling someone that it's fine to get a $350 GTX 285 card in mid-August 2009. Maybe for a few people, but most people would be better off waiting.

To elaborate, the above only makes sense if there is not an imminent launch of something new or if there were a dire need to upgrade NOW. So maybe this advice to not wait was okay a month ago, but now we're only a month or so away from 6xxx launch... if you can muddle through for a measly month, you may save quite a bit of money.

Also, where did this whole NV having new parts thing come up? You make it sound like NV will have cards right after the 6xxx series. Fat chance. NV doesn't have jack up its sleeve for high-end parts, other than a possible GTX 495 (dual 460s on one board); it's still not finished launching Fermi derivative parts for crissake! They got lapped.

EDITED TO ADD: By the way OP, I saw your CPU and I think I know why you're chugging--and it's not your GPU's fault. TF2 is heavily CPU limited, I didn't realize how much so till I used MSI afterburner and saw that I wasn't sitting at 99% GPU usage like I do in every other game--and I was playing at Eyefinity resolution (5040x1050) so you would think that I would have been GPU bottlenecked, but noooo. For the first time ever, I think I may have to oc my E8400 to get my GPU usage up. TF2 is basically a single threaded game even when you turn on multicore rendering, unlike L4D2 or other Source games that got proper multicore support. Heck, I even got better GPU usage from playing Half Life 2 Episode 2.
 
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wait, save up some cash, and do one big system wide upgrade.
 
blastingcap said:
Also, where did this whole NV having new parts thing come up? You make it sound like NV will have cards right after the 6xxx series. Fat chance. NV doesn't have jack up its sleeve for high-end parts, other than a possible GTX 495 (dual 460s on one board); it's still not finished launching Fermi derivative parts for crissake! They got lapped.
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You know this for a fact? You know nVidia isn't rolling out new cards? How? What I know is that the GPU makers like to launch new cards around once a year if they can. I also know that I haven't heard a whole lot out of nVidia and generally the less bluster, the more they've got going.

Who knows what happens next year? Maybe nothing at all. Maybe a weak rehash. Maybe a nice upgrade that uses Global Foundries 32nm.

My point is that things keep coming. People play the wait and see game far too much. At some point, you have to decide you want to upgrade and just do it.

to me, now seems like as good a time as any. There's no new DirectX sue out any time soon so features are fixed for awhile, the current cards are extremely nice price wise and fast as hell, what's not to like?

Yes, if you wait until September there should be new cards. Fine. They will also be at their highest price, being brand new, and probably somewhat limited supply. Wait a few months for the price to come down... but then there are likely to be other new cards, and so on.

I think people worry far too much.
 
Sycraft said:
You know this for a fact? You know nVidia isn't rolling out new cards? How? What I know is that the GPU makers like to launch new cards around once a year if they can. I also know that I haven't heard a whole lot out of nVidia and generally the less bluster, the more they've got going.

Who knows what happens next year? Maybe nothing at all. Maybe a weak rehash. Maybe a nice upgrade that uses Global Foundries 32nm.

My point is that things keep coming. People play the wait and see game far too much. At some point, you have to decide you want to upgrade and just do it.

to me, now seems like as good a time as any. There's no new DirectX sue out any time soon so features are fixed for awhile, the current cards are extremely nice price wise and fast as hell, what's not to like?

Yes, if you wait until September there should be new cards. Fine. They will also be at their highest price, being brand new, and probably somewhat limited supply. Wait a few months for the price to come down... but then there are likely to be other new cards, and so on.

I think people worry far too much.
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well the fact that you think 32nm is an option shows just how out of the loop you are. lol. 32nm was canceled over half a year ago and ATI had to alter its architecture plans a bit to put their new 6000 series on 40nm. Nvidia is probably scrambling to come up with something but they likely wont have an answer to the 6000 series for many months.
 
cannondale06 said:
well the fact that you think 32nm is an option shows just how out of the loop you are. lol. 32nm was canceled over half a year ago and ATI had to alter its architecture plans a bit to put their new 6000 series on 40nm. Nvidia is probably scrambling to come up with something but they likely wont have an answer to the 6000 series for many months.
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Yeah I am not even going to bother responding to that guy; he's woefully misinformed and spewing generalities rather than actual facts. He didn't even get the right foundry name. GloFlo supplying 32nm to NV? LMAO. Right, and if that were even possible why the hell is Northern Island on 40nm? Duuurrrrhh. What I find most hilarious that that somehow NV, which hasn't even finished rolling out the GF100 derivatives, has an ace up its sleeve a few months from now. Overlapping launch power! :eek::eek::eek: ;) NV probably gave up on doing a half-assed 40nm refresh, as what is the point of making a 40nm refresh in mid-2011 or later, only to have AMD clobber them with 28nm parts a few months after?

Edit: apparently while I wrote this post, he wrote some more garbage about theoretical shifts to 32nm at other foundries. Lmao. I think the fact that he thinks NV is about to rely on GloFlo anytime soon shows how ignorant he is of NV's attitude towards GloFlo. And to bring up Intel, which jealously guards its newest fab capacity, as a potential place for NV to get chips? LMAO. And I'm sure Samsung would love to screw up its own production lines to accommodate NV. Oh man, oh man. An expression comes to mind: "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." More generalizing from the past despite the fact that we're in a rather abnormal GPU cycle. More ignorance. More mistaking other people posting facts, as AMD fanboyism, when it's merely pointing out the facts.
 
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cannondale06 said:
well the fact that you think 32nm is an option shows just how out of the loop you are. lol. 32nm was canceled over half a year ago and ATI had to alter its architecture plans a bit to put their new 6000 series on 40nm. Nvidia is probably scrambling to come up with something but they likely wont have an answer to the 6000 series for many months.
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That you think it isn't shows you have a one track mind. Right now I have a 32nm chip in my laptop, and I've had it for a few months. It is a Core i5m. Intel has been successfully making 32nm chips for awhile now.

Yes, I realize they don't make GPUs and that TSMC canceled their 32nm node. However TSMC is not the only fab for hire. IBM has a 32nm process up and running right now. Global Foundries is not doing 32nm, but they claim to have 28nm online for initial production right now (they are making ARM A9s), with full production by year end. I don't know the status of Samsung's 32 and 28nm processes, but they are one of IBM's partners so if they aren't online, they will be soon.

Now, nVidia might well choose to stay with TSMC, but they don't have to. They could go with another fab. They might do just that if they want a smaller process and TSMC can't deliver, particularly with how bad they fucked up 40nm.

Remember that just because the GPU makers used TSMC in the past doesn't mean they have to now. Particularly not these days, there are more "fabs for hire" than in the past.

Please drop the ATi fanboy crap. For one, I own a 5870, there's no need to convert me. For two it is silly to have this attitude of "Oh company X can't respond they are screwed! Long live company Y!" Is your memory really so short? Do you forget the utter dominance of the 8000 series? All the nVidia fanboys were saying ATi was hosed... Ya not so much.

The real point is good or bad, nVidia will have something new early next year in all likelyhood. May jut be a rehash and a price drop, but they'll have something and it'll affect pricing. The GPU makers don't sit still, as the 6000 series is demonstrating. There's always something coming up and even if it isn't what you want from the company you want, it can have an effect on the other company.

I could have saved a lot on a 5870 had I waited to get one. Not sorry I didn't but the idea that getting around launch time is the best time is false. While the nVidia offerings may not be better (given that they use a good deal more juice) they still forced price reductions.
 
Sycraft said:
That you think it isn't shows you have a one track mind. Right now I have a 32nm chip in my laptop, and I've had it for a few months. It is a Core i5m. Intel has been successfully making 32nm chips for awhile now.

Yes, I realize they don't make GPUs and that TSMC canceled their 32nm node. However TSMC is not the only fab for hire. IBM has a 32nm process up and running right now. Global Foundries is not doing 32nm, but they claim to have 28nm online for initial production right now (they are making ARM A9s), with full production by year end. I don't know the status of Samsung's 32 and 28nm processes, but they are one of IBM's partners so if they aren't online, they will be soon.

Now, nVidia might well choose to stay with TSMC, but they don't have to. They could go with another fab. They might do just that if they want a smaller process and TSMC can't deliver, particularly with how bad they fucked up 40nm.

Remember that just because the GPU makers used TSMC in the past doesn't mean they have to now. Particularly not these days, there are more "fabs for hire" than in the past.

Please drop the ATi fanboy crap. For one, I own a 5870, there's no need to convert me. For two it is silly to have this attitude of "Oh company X can't respond they are screwed! Long live company Y!" Is your memory really so short? Do you forget the utter dominance of the 8000 series? All the nVidia fanboys were saying ATi was hosed... Ya not so much.

The real point is good or bad, nVidia will have something new early next year in all likelyhood. May jut be a rehash and a price drop, but they'll have something and it'll affect pricing. The GPU makers don't sit still, as the 6000 series is demonstrating. There's always something coming up and even if it isn't what you want from the company you want, it can have an effect on the other company.

I could have saved a lot on a 5870 had I waited to get one. Not sorry I didn't but the idea that getting around launch time is the best time is false. While the nVidia offerings may not be better (given that they use a good deal more juice) they still forced price reductions.
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You can't just up and switch fabs. GPUs take *years* to design, and even just something like switching fabs is a many month process. Intel having 32nm doesn't do jack shit to help Nvidia. Nvidia, like ATI, is stuck with 40nm for a while yet.
 
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