"Griffin will not be able to touch Core 2 Duo"...

mpcamer1220

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I saw a an in depth presentation on Puma and its derivatives one day after Ruiz did back in June. They told me they were going to compete on price.. still, they do have a pretty significant number of design wins with it.
 

xBanzai89

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Their vga line up will wipe the floor with intel's, allowing for more sales. I'd rather have a better gpu then a better cpu in the notebook, imo.
 
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"Griffin will not be able to touch Core 2 Duo"...
peter_griffin_1154044688.jpg


I would be surprised if Griffin could.
 

pxc

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It's not really a big surprise. Griffin is just a K8 core w/1MB x 2 cache and a few power saving tricks. That was announced last year.

Around the same time as the Puma platform comes out, Intel will also have a refresh named Montevina and a bunch of mainstream (not LV) 25W dual core 45nm chips up to 2.53GHz. Mobile Griffin chips will have lower clocks, higher TDPs and still have the K8 performance deficit vs Core 2 (+ small 45nm models performance boost). The shining point for Puma is the integrated graphics performance, which really doesn't matter to most people.

The danger for the Puma platform is if it gets wedged into the value segment, a point I think AMD is trying to keep it from with price estimates of $699 and up. That's a wish really. What suffers at the low end is while you can have a decent CPU and relatively good motherboard, it all suffers with cheap components and weak batteries that put it in a 2 hour battery life class.

From the smack I see AMD talking, they seemed to be aiming for Santa Rosa, but they will be competing with Montevina especially in that wishful price category.
 

vogar34

Limp Gawd
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Jul 30, 2003
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Hopefully the white flag AMD is waving is really a cloth tied to the end of a spear. This lack of competition is hopefully not going to go on forever.
 

vista_blista

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Graphics don't matter to mobile users? Is everyone going to start using braille displays? Perhaps graphics have never meant anything to Intel. And now consumers will have an alternative. And Intel won't have a relevant response for quite some time.
 

pxc

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Yeah, braille. :rolleyes: What I wrote was:
The shining point for Puma is the integrated graphics performance, which really doesn't matter to most people.

Maybe where the bulk of sales goes to is not clear. Retail/consumer sales are by far a minority of sales behind sales to business, by over 4:1. There is a minimum acceptable IGP performance, although some people (including me) would be interested in faster options depending on other tradeoffs (price, battery life, processor performance, etc). If a dual core X2 Puma laptop with 3 hours of battery life were available around $400 (what I paid for my dual core Merom with a ~3 hour battery life), I would buy one for sure. I may even pay a slight premium (~$500 or less), but definitely not $699+.

Overestimating how many people want to play Far Cry in low detail/low resolution (800x600) at 35fps is mostly wishful thinking for the Puma platform. It's not a good substitute for a discrete GPU since it performs below a low end modern part that is also not considered good for gaming. Believe it or not, the X3100 can play most of the "casual" (PopCap/flash/older) type games IGPs are suited for. I even play The Sims 2 on mine. Of course the mobile 780G would be faster, and that could possibly appeal to me as I mentioned above.
 

Scali2

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I can actually play Far Cry on my X3100 reasonably well with the latest drivers. Yes, the 780G is still way faster, but the X3100 *can* play some of the older games quite well. Half-Life 2 is doable aswell (as is Ep1... Ep2 is considerably more heavy in the outdoor areas, so it needs to be set to lower detail/resolution, but even then it's doable). I actually had some fun replaying through HL2 after installing the latest drivers.
You can get about 20-30 fps without even going to the lowest resolution/settings. In fact, a lot of detail comes 'for free' (as in, setting it lower doesn't make it go faster) because shaders and texture filtering on the X3100 are very efficient.
The X4000-series is supposed to be quite a bit faster even.
Still way slower than the 780G, but at least it does support pretty much everything in DX9 and DX10, and it is fast enough to run some games.
 

pxc

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I saw your thread at B3D. :p I'm going to wait for the release 15.9. What's taking Intel so long? /offtopic
 

Scali2

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Assuming that the benchmark will complete properly, I'll get you 3DMark Vantage results for the X3100 with the beta driver on Monday :)
 

quadnad

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Agreed with pxc -- who really thought that a very slightly tweaked K8 was somehow going to make up the massive IPC deficit? From the very first time we learned it was essentially K8 performance-wise, I knew it wouldn't turn out well.

The question is, who really thought it would turn out well?
 

zooropa

n00b
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Dec 11, 2005
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to think they were taking it to intel. i admit i even have a c2d myself. i've given into the darkside
 

Deliximus

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judging that there are quite a bit of OEM wins, Puma will be successful. I think that k8 performance is already awesome on a laptop. Intel offerings are fantastic as well. But i think the 780G is the deciding factor, IMO.
 

pxc

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But i think the 780G is the deciding factor, IMO.
What's changed? IGP performance is not one of the main factors in laptop sales, which are typically price, battery life and productivity software performance.

We'll have to wait for this summer to see if AMD managed to change the game. I'm just not seeing it as revolutionary when there are more glaring platform deficits.
 
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BATTERY LIFE


if theres anything that the EEE PC has taught us, its that in the laptop segment, we don't need mind blowing performance....

i'd love something with 1.6Ghz K8 X2 performance, and 780G graphics with 5 hour battery life and a slim and light 12 inch frame


edit: and without an extended battery/discrete graphics... yea I know the M1330 exists, and has a very great price point..... i had one.... but I want something lighter and with way better battery life (w/o a bulky battery).... at 3 pounds..... is that asking too much? I dont think so...
 
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