Great news everybody! RTX 30 series hashing limiter partially defeated!

If NVIdia did that and AMD didn’t NVidia would have to lower their prices. If AMD did raise their prices as well it’s an open and shut case of price fixing. And don’t think for a second the OEM’s would stand for that it would just be a good way to get sued fast from every one of your down channel partners. They might get away with a 5-10% increase, but anything more than that raises far too many red flags.
Discontinue the base 3000 line, and have 3000 CMP line, msrp starting at 999 for 3060 equivalent. LHR stays at current msrp.

perhaps, as you say, it’s too late for the 3000 series, but hopefully something like that can be implemented for the 4k line. Pretty sure I’m missing out on extra dividend because NVidia isn’t pricing as high as miners will pay.
 
Discontinue the base 3000 line, and have 3000 CMP line, msrp starting at 999 for 3060 equivalent. LHR stays at current msrp.

perhaps, as you say, it’s too late for the 3000 series, but hopefully something like that can be implemented for the 4k line. Pretty sure I’m missing out on extra dividend because NVidia isn’t pricing as high as miners will pay.
No, they need the CMP and LHR lineups, the only thing that saved them from their last investor lawsuit was they managed to feign ignorance of the miners buying their cards that won't be an option this time around, the LHR and CMP cards give them a degree of deniability it will hold off lawsuits.

I am actually looking forward to when NV announces their next set of quarterlies, it should contain the sales numbers for the CMP cards, I think they are actually selling far better than anybody cares to admit.
 
On the home front I buy cards when available and I've had a 3090 since launch. I only picked up a 3070ti because of the LHR fix and even then I got the card for msrp so it fits with what I want it to do.

On the work front, I've picked up 24 A5000 cards and a DGX-A100 at msrp pricing. Availability was 4-6 weeks and nvidia delivered as expected in the enterprise channels. I now run a DGX1, DGX1-32GB, DGX2, DGXA100 and a host of other workstation/consumer cards for my work since 2016. I have yet to find myself in a position where I had to be forced to buy a card at scalped prices. It's all about who you know in the business and I've retained my contacts throughout the decades.
 
That's the opposite of what their partners are doing. Why bother?
They have to offer it so they have a metric for “miner card sales” because when the bubble bursts and all those gaming cards are sold second hand and their first party sales tank investors will sue again. By heading it off and offering the CMP lineup and pushing the party line of “these are the mining cards, and look we made our gaming lineup unattractive as soon as we discovered a problem” they push the responsibility for the problem off themselves onto the AIB’s. It then falls on the AIB’s and retailers to disclose their sales to miners which they have no obligation to do, so potential future lawsuits about their sales to miners are nicely buttoned up.

The process serves as both a virtue signaling stance, and a solid CYA policy. While costing NVidia absolutely nothing in the process, it’s just a good business move.
 
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They have to offer it so they have a metric for “miner card sales” because when the bubble bursts and all those gaming cards are sold second hand and their first party sales tank investors will sue again. By heading it off and offering the CMP lineup and pushing the party line of “these are the mining cards, and look we made our gaming lineup unattractive as soon as we discovered a problem” they push the responsibility for the problem off themselves onto the AIB’s. It then falls on the AIB’s and retailers to disclose their sales to miners which they have no obligation to do, so potential future lawsuits about their sales to miners are nicely buttoned up.

The process serves as both a virtue signaling stance, and a solid CYA policy. While costing NVidia absolutely nothing in the process, it’s just a good business move.
Except for one glaring hole - they didn't hash limit their own FE cards. You know, the cheapest and highest demand cards, sold right from nvidia themselves.

It won't take much for the investors to question why they didn't let the aibs be unlimited and just limit the FE, or better yet why they didn't limit all the cards. Due to the way they did it, they are wide open for lawsuits again. FE pricing should have been much higher compared to the aibs, and it should have been the first ones to get limited. Nevermind why they bothered with a 50% limit instead of a 0% limit.
 
Except for one glaring hole - they didn't hash limit their own FE cards. You know, the cheapest and highest demand cards, sold right from nvidia themselves.

It won't take much for the investors to question why they didn't let the aibs be unlimited and just limit the FE, or better yet why they didn't limit all the cards. Due to the way they did it, they are wide open for lawsuits again. FE pricing should have been much higher compared to the aibs, and it should have been the first ones to get limited. Nevermind why they bothered with a 50% limit instead of a 0% limit.
They discontinued their direct online sale of the FE series back in Oct, instead of partnering with numerous brick and mortar stores to facilitate the FE sales. The FE parts are also limited supply not available in bulk purchase, so if say Best Buy is selling those to Miners in bulk NVidia's hands are clean because that is on the retailer.
 
They discontinued their direct online sale of the FE series back in Oct, instead of partnering with numerous brick and mortar stores to facilitate the FE sales. The FE parts are also limited supply not available in bulk purchase, so if say Best Buy is selling those to Miners in bulk NVidia's hands are clean because that is on the retailer.
Surprised that insulates them well enough. Still doesn't address why they chose not to LHR their line, or why they didn't adjust pricing. Limited supply applies for all cards, not just FE, there's no real good way to measure it in the current situation. They have still taken measures to make the FE cards the most desirable to miners.
 
Still doesn't address why they chose not to LHR their line, or why they didn't adjust pricing. Limited supply applies for all cards, not just FE, there's no real good way to measure it in the current situation. They have still taken measures to make the FE cards the most desirable to miners.
They don't produce enough of them for it to really matter. Hell, they might've already stopped manufacturing them altogether at a certain point, and the little allocation trickling out to BestBuy stores is just standing stock emptying out in planned waves.

And the idea of them revising their MSRP's on existing FE SKU's in the form of an increase would also be of no consequence to their bottom line- a drop in the ocean. There would be no upside, and would cost them more in bad PR and clickbait headlines "OMG Nvidia LIED about MSRPz?!?!", than getting a lousy few hundred extra dollars on a 3080 FE, of which only around 100-150 total are even shipped to BB distro centers for the entire country every 2-4 weeks.
 
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Hell, they might've already stopped manufacturing them altogether at a certain point,

If memory serves, they originally only planned to manufacture FE cards in 2020. They were contractually obliged to produce more for Best Buy which they did this year, which is why there was another batch whipped up.
 
Surprised that insulates them well enough. Still doesn't address why they chose not to LHR their line, or why they didn't adjust pricing. Limited supply applies for all cards, not just FE, there's no real good way to measure it in the current situation. They have still taken measures to make the FE cards the most desirable to miners.
Really what they have done is make the 3090's the most valuable cards for miners, having worked with Best Buy for my recent RTX 6000 and 8000 purchases, we were joking about trying to toss a 3080TI in there for posterity and my rep said that they are lucky to get more than a dozen of those at their warehouse for distribution so he wasn't able to hook me up there :'( The FE cards only trickle in and they are lucky if they can get 2-3 out to their box stores every other week. Not exactly the type of orders a mining firm would want to deal with, they don't want to trickle in one or two cards every couple of weeks, they want to see them by the hundreds or thousands (depending on size). Because when things are good if they arent first then they are last, the mining bubbles are time sensitive so it's all about getting the most of your mining before the other big guys can catch up.
This is why I do think the CMP cards may have sold better than we think they did, they were made on an older process with an uncontested supply and had an existing surplus stock of chips yet to be mounted on PCBs to front-load the stock. If you have a large operation, upgrading 20 or 50 cards at a time is inefficient, but if you can get all 500 or 5000 upgraded in one go it's still often better with a faster ROI than trickling them in and hoping the bubble rides it out over the duration. Many of these miners just take whatever coin is offering them the best returns they pump them and dump them and move on to the next.
 
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Really what they have done is make the 3090's the most valuable cards for miners, having worked with Best Buy for my recent RTX 6000 and 8000 purchases, we were joking about trying to toss a 3080TI in there for posterity and my rep said that they are lucky to get more than a dozen of those at their warehouse for distribution so he wasn't able to hook me up there :'( The FE cards only trickle in and they are lucky if they can get 2-3 out to their box stores every other week. Not exactly the type of orders a mining firm would want to deal with, they don't want to trickle in one or two cards every couple of weeks, they want to see them by the hundreds or thousands (depending on size). Because when things are good if they arent first then they are last, the mining bubbles are pretty time so it's all about getting the most of your mining before the other big guys can catch up.
This is why I do think the CMP cards may have sold better than we think they did, they were made on an older process with an uncontested supply and had an existing surplus stock of chips yet to be mounted on PCBs to front-load the stock. If you have a large operation, upgrading 20 or 50 cards at a time is inefficient, but if you can get all 500 upgraded in one go it's still often better with a faster ROI than trickling them in and hoping the bubble rides it out over the duration. Many of these miners just take whatever coin is offering them the best returns they pump them and dump them and move on to the next.
I don't know about the 3090s being most valuable, at a pure cost perspective they are not very efficient and two 3070 tis will outproduce a 3090 if they mine raven or ergo and swap it over to eth/btc/whatever, while having a lower total cost (outside of per slot efficiency.) You can easily google the profits of these coins, the market has already corrected for the lhr cards and nearly everyone always mines whatever is most profitable.
 
I hope that they're able to block this shit in hardware in the next revision. I'm still frustrated that miners are taking all the cards and I can't even get the card I want for my VR setup.

I wonder how much ecological damage is being done with all the power that's being wasted on this, too. Having a livable planet in 50-100 years would be nice.
 
I hope that they're able to block this shit in hardware in the next revision. I'm still frustrated that miners are taking all the cards and I can't even get the card I want for my VR setup.
They won't. They're making too much money from miners. These LHR cards are just a typical PR stunt to make people think the company is doing something about it. They could give a shit less where the money comes from.
 
I hope that they're able to block this shit in hardware in the next revision. I'm still frustrated that miners are taking all the cards and I can't even get the card I want for my VR setup.
I really feel this was a horribly implemented trial run for them. I think unfortunately it will take a few more generations for them to fully block it, if ever.
 
I'm still frustrated that miners are taking all the cards and I can't even get the card I want for my VR setup.

It's an oversimplification to say that this problem exists because of miners. The whole planet decided to take a year off and work from home for some reason. Even if mining didn't exist, the whole supply system would still be jacked up.

Having a livable planet in 50-100 years would be nice.

That's not really a factor, plus it's irrelevant. We use energy to produce something of value. Whether that's crypto or video games makes no difference.
 
They won't. They're making too much money from miners. These LHR cards are just a typical PR stunt to make people think the company is doing something about it. They could give a shit less where the money comes from.
Sounds like a big corporation to me.
 
Awesome Miner finally updated NBMiner to 39.1, no trojan either, hurray. It took hashrate from around 53 up to around 70mh/s on a Gigabyte 3080Ti, unfortunately that is not the only thing it took up. Memory junction temperature went right up to 110c :jawdrop: which then it would drop to 102c then back up 110c, card was protecting itself from destruction (hopefully more effective than Gigabyte power supplies). Fans maxed out, 60% power limit, core underclocked did not stop over 100c temps. Went back to Nano Miner, 53mh/s junction temperature 92c. I thought my EVGA card was bad on cooling the DDR6x, this gigabyte card takes the award and cake for worst DDR6x cooling. Such a massive cooler for such crap performance for the ram. Will have to take it apart and redo the thermal pads, probably put some on the back side as well.
 
Awesome Miner finally updated NBMiner to 39.1, no trojan either, hurray. It took hashrate from around 53 up to around 70mh/s on a Gigabyte 3080Ti, unfortunately that is not the only thing it took up. Memory junction temperature went right up to 110c :jawdrop: which then it would drop to 102c then back up 110c, card was protecting itself from destruction (hopefully more effective than Gigabyte power supplies). Fans maxed out, 60% power limit, core underclocked did not stop over 100c temps. Went back to Nano Miner, 53mh/s junction temperature 92c. I thought my EVGA card was bad on cooling the DDR6x, this gigabyte card takes the award and cake for worst DDR6x cooling. Such a massive cooler for such crap performance for the ram. Will have to take it apart and redo the thermal pads, probably put some on the back side as well.
You're better off doing ergo or raven anyway, by a long shot. Still significantly better than eth at 70% potential.
 
You're better off doing ergo or raven anyway, by a long shot. Still significantly better than eth at 70% potential.
Yes, I did test Ergo and memory junction temperature was less than 90c and at a rate close to the 3090. Maybe lazy on my part, it is easy to mine ETH, transfer to Coinbase and convert to $ without going through an exchange process other than Coinbase. RVN I could auto convert to ETH so maybe I should check that out. This machine is hooked up to a 65" QLED TV, fantastic gaming setup but we don't game all the time so it gets extra duty paying for itself.
 
I read
Nvidia has an option of selling FE cards in large quantities to miners while locking out the AIBs at the same time. How kind Nvidia is.
I read that Nvidia said that from now on ALL 3000 series GPUs will be LHR including the 3080 Ti FE. The only exception is the 3090 which makes sense since that is the top card. Here is a review of the 3080 Ti FE saying it has LHR.

Gimped ETH mining performance: NVIDIA's new GeForce RTX 3080 Ti has a tweaked GPU with gimped ETH mining through its new Lite Hash Rate (LHR) cryptocurrency mining nerfing at a hardware level. The GeForce RTX 3080 and RTX 3090 destroy the RTX 3080 Ti in crypto mining (85-115MH/s compared to 55-65MH/s). But this is good news for gamers, no miners will want to buy this card.



Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/9...unders-edition/index.html#Whats-Hot-Whats-Not
 
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I consider any defeat of this abhorrent, purposefull limitation of a GPU's function to be great news. This feature cannot and should not be normalized or it will only lead to even worse restrictions in future generations the moment they smell money and figure the public will accept it. Hopefully the other 30% can be defeated ASAP .

QFT. I'm not a miner, but I want my cards unrestricted by artificial "popular demand" nerfs. This was a blatant test case to see how people react to artificial limits. Cheer it on and you're going to see lots of video card dlc in the future.

You guys do realize that they can set any limits they want?

They already do, and always have. So has Intel, AMD, other brands now lost to history. Mainframes from the 70's, you paid for x amount of compute. You wanted more, they came and made a change to a dipswitch or entered some software command, and boom instant upgrade (maybe bad example as some of those might have been leased). GPU's on video cards,1 is sold to perform at 1000 Mhz, another sold to perform at 1200 Mhz, and these are identical chips. The price increases for the higher performance, and they can limit that in the firmware, plus the support components (i.e. having capable enough power supply components). Doing this is standard practice.

As long as it is known ahead of the sale, I think it's fine. They aren't "ripping you off" when you know what you are buying. If you don't like the limits, don't buy it.

I get where you are coming from, but at the same time, nVidia has no obligation to sell us GPUs at all. They could sell 100% to miners if they wanted. Lucky for us, they don't do that. What they do, is segment the market and sell chips for purpose X, other chips for purpose Y. Those chips might even be the same silicon. Doing this lowers cost as design, testing, tapeouts, etc all cost money. They would be stupid if they DIDN'T do exactly what they are doing. These same principals are followed by their competitors.
 
Never said it was about optics. Saving money on production costs is obviously both a profit motive as well as a competitive pricing advantage.
 
Discontinue the base 3000 line, and have 3000 CMP line, msrp starting at 999 for 3060 equivalent. LHR stays at current msrp.

perhaps, as you say, it’s too late for the 3000 series, but hopefully something like that can be implemented for the 4k line. Pretty sure I’m missing out on extra dividend because NVidia isn’t pricing as high as miners will pay.
The Nvidia A4000 launched at a $999 MSRP and runs about on par with the RTX 3060, and is not throttled.
CMP will likely stay in some form or another, but this time around it was a good way to use up all the remaining 2000 series silicon while selling it for a higher price than they would get from selling it as actual 2000 series cards.
 
NBminer 39.2 + 3080 Ti => 80mh/s Ethash, Ethereum. Gigabyte 3080 Ti Eagle, getting closer to non LHR cards. Mining ERGO (ERG) earns more now and is not limited by LHR, 240mh/s Autolykos2 using Trex miner. Redid the thermal pads for the vram and added back side pads to backplate -> Reduced Memory Junction temperature by 16c! Not sure what Gigabyte used for thermal pads, harden cheese whip or something.

NBMinerETH3080ti.png
 
Nice! Thanks for the update!
Your Welcome. Here is the 3080Ti LHR on ERGO stable at around 240mh/s making estimated $7/day:

ERGO242.png
It will also do 249mh/s but with more power:

ERGO249.png
My 3090 I think I was able to get 260mh/s at around 230w, it is mining ETH when not gaming or other stuff but ERGO is becoming to a point where it is more profitable than ETH. On the 3080Ti ERGO is by far the most profitable coin for that card. ERGO can be mined with much older cards, like AMD 7970, 290, Fury, 970, 1050, 1060 etc. May have to take that over to the Crypto Thread.
 
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