Colonel Sanders

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ok so... i didn't know this but the time trial mode does not give a shit if your lap was clean or not. you can cut to your heart's content and it will still post the lap. we're gonna have to go on the honor system and just kinda assume nobody's gonna cut too badly.

i guess a legit time trial mode with online leaderboards, track limits enforcement and the ability to earn credits is coming in an update. who wants to bet that the system was fully in the game before release but they cut it last minute because they deemed it was too easy to earn credits?
 

BassTek

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Jul 13, 2002
Messages
6,303
Well that system essentially exists in the game already, but it’s used for qualifying in Sport mode. Those laps have to be clean and it compares your qualifying time against your friends. You can download ghosts to compare as well.

I don’t think it would have been cut, I just think they were lazy with the single player portion of this game.
 

Verge

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Messages
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ok so... i didn't know this but the time trial mode does not give a shit if your lap was clean or not. you can cut to your heart's content and it will still post the lap. we're gonna have to go on the honor system and just kinda assume nobody's gonna cut too badly.

i guess a legit time trial mode with online leaderboards, track limits enforcement and the ability to earn credits is coming in an update. who wants to bet that the system was fully in the game before release but they cut it last minute because they deemed it was too easy to earn credits?
Even if i cut i'll lose by seconds.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
12,971
There is a new update that raises rewards for many races, and events. But I'm not going to play this game until they fix the physics and force feedback. I'm enjoying the SP content in GTS instead, where both are working as intended.
 

Armenius

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Messages
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The new 30 minute Le Mans race rewards you with 825k credits. The rewards for circuit experiences were also greatly increased. They range anywhere between 600k at Brands Hatch to 5 million at Nordschleife. Follow the directions in the patch notes to get the updated rewards if you've already completed any of them.

https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gt7/news/00_5412323.html

1.World Circuits
- The amount of rewards for events in the latter half of the World Circuit has been increased.
- New race events have been added to the World Circuit. The new events are as follows:
 ・World Touring Car 600 Tokyo Expressway East Clockwise
 ・World Touring Car 700 24 Heures du Mans Racing Circuit
 ・World Touring Car 800 Sardegna Road Track A
- Adjusted the rewards for Arcade races and Custom Races

2.Circuit Experience
- Rewards are now provided when clearing all layouts of circuits in Gold or Bronze results. If you have already achieved these results, going into the sector selection screen and exiting with the Exit button will award the prize.

3.Lobby / Sports Mode
- The amount of rewards in Lobbies and Daily Races has been increased.
- Corrected an issue where spectating while entered in a race in the Lobby did not allow you to switch to the spectator camera.
- Changed the Nations Cup and Manufacturer Cup so that the Helmet thumbnail specific to the championship is displayed.
- When the room mode is set to ‘Practice/Endurance Race’, adjusted the finish timing when the course setting is set to ‘Time limit’.
- Changed the camera movements before races start in Daily Races when the starting method is set to Formation.

4.Mission
- Added ‘The Human Comedy’ to Missions, containing 1-hour endurance races. ‘The Human Comedy’ will become playable when the player’s Collector’s Level is 23. Each endurance race event will award up to 1.2 million Cr. per event.
- Race information such as the Starting Grid, number of laps or time limit, starting method, etc. are now displayed in the Race event Quick Menu of Missions.
- Best records for time limit events and Friend Ranking Records are now saved and displayed in the format of [Ranking/Number of Laps]
- Rankings have been reset for the following Time Limit events*
 ・Gone With the Wind - High Speed Ring 30 min.
 ・The Sun Also Rises - Le Mans 24 min.
 ・The Sun Also Rises - Bathurst Gr. 3 Battle

*Already existing best records will only display the ‘Ranking’. Once the same or better result record has been set, it will be saved in the format of ‘Ranking/Number of laps’. For Friend Rankings, if a Bronze or better result is set, it will be saved even if the result is lower than the best record.

5.Game Progression
- Raised the maximum cap for earned in-game credits to 100 million Cr.
- New ‘Invitations’ received hereafter will have a time limit of 30 days, instead of 14 days.

6.Used Cars / Legendary Cars
- The number of cars listed in the lineup at the same time is now increased.

7.Cars
- Mazda RX-7 GT-X (FC) '90: Corrected the position and shape of the roll cage installed in ‘GT Auto’.
- Toyota Sprinter Trueno 1600GT APEX (S.Shigeno Version): Corrected a part of the rear wheel design.

8.Livery Editor
- Corrected livery display issues for the following cars. If the car you are currently using is subject to this, it will be fixed when you go to [GT Auto] -> [Car Customization] -> [Save Style]
 ・Subaru WRX Gr.B Road Car
 ・Ferrari F430 '06
 ・Ferrari F8 Tributo '19

9. Car Physics Simulation
- Improved physics when landing from a jump, mainly on dirt tracks.
- Corrected an issue where the value of the vehicle speed displayed on the speedometer of other players in online races sometimes differed from the actual vehicle speed.
- Corrected an issue where after-fire would not stop during certain operations after tuning the muffler of a Toyota Prius G '09 and Toyota Aqua S '11.

10.Car Settings
- Changed the anti-lag system setting from ON/OFF to 3 settings, OFF/Weak/Strong.
- Corrected an issue where if you open the car settings after selecting a part in the Tuning Shop but cancelling without purchasing it, it would blank out the created setting sheet name and the settings would be reset.

11.Race
- Corrected an issue where time penalties were not being issued properly when short distance short cuts were made or successive short cuts were made.
- Corrected an issue where a penalty would always be issued for cutting the white line at Goodwood.
- Adjusted the pit stop starting position for the Daytona International Speedway tri-oval.

12.Custom Races
- Changed so that Balance of Performance (BoP) setting can be turned on/off when the player’s cars are Gr.1, Gr.2, Gr.3, Gr.4, and Gr.B categories.

13.Rival Cars (AI)
- Corrected an issue where rival cars that changed to rain tires in wet condition races after a pit stop would have slow acceleration coming out of the pits.
- In online races, applied measures for some cars starting earlier or later during a rolling start due to network issues.

14.Graphics
- Improved the image quality of smoke in Race Photos
- Corrected an issue where debris during crashes while in cockpit view would enter inside of the car.
- Corrected the graphics drawing of smoke when seen through car windows

15.Replays
- Until now, the control menu appeared using any button on the controller, but this has been changed so that it will now only appear when using the confirm and cancel buttons.

16.Sound
- Music will now be played back in Surround Sound when the audio output mode is set to ‘7.1 ch Surround’ output.
 ・On PlayStation®4, this playback will apply when the connected device is 5.1 ch or 7.1 ch compatible and the ‘Audio Output Mode’ in ‘Options’ is set to ‘7.1 Surround’.
 ・On PlayStation®5 this playback will apply when the connected device is 5.1 h or 7.1 ch compatible and the ‘HDMI Device Type’ on the console is set to ‘AV Amplifier’, and the ‘Number of Channels’ is set to ‘5.1 ch’ or ‘7.1 ch’.
- Added [Music Replay Volume Balance] and [Music Replay Master Volume] options to the Sound Volume and the replay options for the Music Replay Playback.
- The Music Replay Options can now be closed with the cancel button.

17.Settings
- Changed so that [Display Demonstration Ghost] setting inside [Ghost Settings] is displayed only in Licenses and the Circuit Experience.
- Added a [Temporary Exposure Setting] to the Quick Menu settings. The [Temporary Exposure Settings] allows you to temporarily adjust the brightness of the screen in races. Exiting the quick menu will return the game to the original exposure setting.

18.Car Collection
- Added 3 new features for moving the cursor.
 ・The △ button will now move the cursor to your current car.
 ・The L2 button or R2 will move the cursor to the next car already acquired.
 ・The □ button will move the cursor to cars with ‘NEW’ labels.

19.GT Auto
- Unified the brightness of replacement light bulbs under [GT Auto] > [Customize Cars] > [Other Parts] > [Lightbulb]

20.Trophy
- Corrected the text for the trophy ‘Wheely Good Fun’ to ‘Bought 10 sets of wheels at GT AUTO’

21.Title Screen
- Divided the thumbnail image and title text of news so that they are displayed separately.

22.Steering Controllers
- Allocated features to extra buttons that become available when attaching replacement wheels such as the Fanatec Club Sport Steering Wheel Formula V2 on the Fanatec GT DD Pro*.
 ・Assigned the upper right / left paddles on the Fanatec Podium Advanced Paddle Module to turn signals
 ・Assigned the left/right toggle switch to MFD toggle and change features
 ・Assigned the analog stick to head turning
* Extra button assignment is only available when the compatible steering wheel is attached.
- When attaching a replacement steering wheel such as the Fanatec ClubSport Steering Wheel Formula V2 on the Fanatec CSL Elite and Fanatec Podium, changed the ‘MFD Change’ function assigned to both left and right toggle switches so that the left toggle switch is assigned to the ‘Switch MFD’ feature.
- Various other issues have been addressed.
 
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Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
5,395
There is a new update that raises rewards for many races, and events. But I'm not going to play this game until they fix the physics and force feedback. I'm enjoying the SP content in GTS instead, where both are working as intended.
what wheel setup are you using again?
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
12,971
what wheel setup are you using again?
The issues are well documented at this point, and admitted by even stark defenders of the game at least as bugs, so please don't try to pin it on my wheel setup. That a stock NA miata will blow of the real wheels and maintain a powerslide in anything but gear 1 is beyond ridiculous.
 

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
5,395
The issues are well documented at this point, and admitted by even stark defenders of the game at least as bugs, so please don't try to pin it on my wheel setup. That a stock NA miata will blow of the real wheels and maintain a powerslide in anything but gear 1 is beyond ridiculous.
what the hell? ... oooooo kay then
 

Armenius

Extremely [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
33,183
Sounds like they didn't touch the rewards for online racing.
The issues are well documented at this point, and admitted by even stark defenders of the game at least as bugs, so please don't try to pin it on my wheel setup. That a stock NA miata will blow of the real wheels and maintain a powerslide in anything but gear 1 is beyond ridiculous.
I have no issue driving RWD cars. You can't goose the throttle while the wheel is still turned and traction control is turned off.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
12,971
I have no issue driving RWD cars. You can't goose the throttle while the wheel is still turned and traction control is turned off.
I can drive them too, I finished 75% of the game, but then I realized I'm not enjoying it, and started looking into why. I could not put my finger on it for a while that's why I kept at the game.
But now I come to the conclusion that the physics is flawed despite of it appearing to be more realistic at first glance. I calculates loss of grip incorrectly. Ironically it seems to be the same mistake I made when I was writing a car game in 12th grade. As soon as the loss of grip occurs the wheelspeed just runs away, and there are no checks in place whether the torque is reduced enough for grip to be regained. As a result as soon as wheels loose grip they are incapable of regaining it until the wheelspeed matches the real travel speed again. That's why cars are so tail happy and prone to snap oversteering in the game. The higher the wheelspeed the more pronounced the effect gets. That's why shortshifting achcieves the exact opposite effect in the game as in real life.

Yeah, you can play the game as is, but I choose not to, because it is frustrating, and knowing what's the issue is and how trivial only makes it worse for me. Yes, you can greatly mitigate it by installing two way LSD on every car, but this is not how it should work.

As for FFB, it's just dead, non-existent, vague, weak. This is confirmed by people with 8nm direct drive wheels as well, so it's definitely not my "plastic gears" issue. Those plastic gears work just fine in GT Sport.
 

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
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Sep 26, 2001
Messages
5,395
I can drive them too, I finished 75% of the game, but then I realized I'm not enjoying it, and started looking into why. I could not put my finger on it for a while that's why I kept at the game.
But now I come to the conclusion that the physics is flawed despite of it appearing to be more realistic at first glance. I calculates loss of grip incorrectly. Ironically it seems to be the same mistake I made when I was writing a car game in 12th grade. As soon as the loss of grip occurs the wheelspeed just runs away, and there are no checks in place whether the torque is reduced enough for grip to be regained. As a result as soon as wheels loose grip they are incapable of regaining it until the wheelspeed matches the real travel speed again. That's why cars are so tail happy and prone to snap oversteering in the game. The higher the wheelspeed the more pronounced the effect gets. That's why shortshifting achcieves the exact opposite effect in the game as in real life.

Yeah, you can play the game as is, but I choose not to, because it is frustrating, and knowing what's the issue is and how trivial only makes it worse for me. Yes, you can greatly mitigate it by installing two way LSD on every car, but this is not how it should work.

As for FFB, it's just dead, non-existent, vague, weak. This is confirmed by people with 8nm direct drive wheels as well, so it's definitely not my "plastic gears" issue. Those plastic gears work just fine in GT Sport.
i don't agree with your assessment of the physics at all.
 

M76

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Jun 12, 2012
Messages
12,971
i don't agree with your assessment of the physics at all.
Saying I disagree without explanation is meaningless.

I'm not saying I must be 100% correct on what's the issue, you can convince me by offering alternate explanations for:
  1. why stock RWD cars behave in such a manner that if they were like this in real life most people who ever driven RWD cars would be dead. Especially those who ever driven a car in rain. There is more grip on black ice, than in the wet in GT7.
  2. why do cars oversteer more easily and wildly in corners in higher gear, than in a lower gear where the engine is in its peak power band? Contrary to established reality, and real world race driver practices used all the way to Formula1.
  3. how relatively low powered sub 200 hp cars can keep the tyres spinning in higher gears, A car with that kind of power might chirp the wheel in 2nd gear if you do a clutch drop, and that's it. But in GT7 everything acts like a 500+HP drift car in this regard.
 

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
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Sep 26, 2001
Messages
5,395
why stock RWD cars behave in such a manner that if they were like this in real life most people who ever driven RWD cars would be dead. Especially those who ever driven a car in rain. There is more grip on black ice, than in the wet in GT7
are you talking only about wet surface driving or everything in general but especially wet surface driving? i'll just answer for both. first, i'm really, really, really big into cars irl - ever since i got my license i've driven almost exclusively v8, rwd, manual cars (mostly of the Mustang/Firebird/Camaro variety but others too) and modding them has been a long time hobby of mine. my current car puts down about 430 hp at the rear wheels but it's nowhere near the fastest car i've driven. all that being said i've still never had the pleasure of doing a track day or HPDE type of event but i can tell you i have loooots of experience "hooning" (as the kids these days like to say) and doing dumb shit on the street.

so to answer the first part, i don't see a particular behavior in GT7 regarding rwd cars that i find especially unrealistic. if anything i would say that the physics engine jump from GTS to GT7 (and this is NOT to say it's without flaws) is enough that i suspect it's catching people out who've become accustomed to the somewhat more relaxed behavior (particularly of road cars) in GTS. you referenced the behavior of a "stock Miata" earlier, and it's a common comparison to make between that and something like a Mustang GT500 because it's still rwd but also very underpowered; however, people also tend to forget that a Miata also typically drives around on little pizza cutters for wheels and your typical all-season mild performance tires. anything more serious has a major difference in both contact patch and compound which changes things so much that you can really never do an apples to apples comparison (unless, obviously, you put the same wheels and tires on both.) so yes, a stock Miata CAN blow the tires off mid-corner in third gear at 80 mph, but not because the physics engine is "broken" or doing something wonky, it's because you're asking a hard-compound tire 175mm wide to hold a lot of lateral G. once the lateral limit is reached it doesn't matter if it's a Miata or a Diablo. it's way more complicated than that of course (i haven't even mentioned differential simulation yet) but yeah.

as for wet physics, i find the grip for the varying degrees of "wetness" of the surface (as depicted by the little surface grip meter they added to the hud) pretty much on point. if there's a sticking point there (no pun intended) it's that the game sometimes doesn't visually give enough cues to the player, depending on time of day and track etc, to clue you in on what you're about to be driving on (aside from the little grip meter, which of course no one has the benefit of IRL.) however the biggest thing that throws people for a loop, and it's not inaccurate, is the simulation of hydroplaning. the moment your car hydroplanes at all four wheels, forget it, you are literally just along for the ride. you might as well strap spinny caster wheels to all four corners for all the control you have. that's where some players are experiencing it and going what the fucking shit, why is my car just doing what it wants, this is uncontrollable! well yeah, that's exactly what should happen. it doesn't just have to happen on all four corners either, any wheel can hydroplane separately, which means driving in the wet can *quickly* become a stressful nightmare if your car is fitted with non-wet oriented tires. but like i said, GT7 doesn't always make it easy to spot where the surfaces are wet enough to create a hydroplaning risk (if the clouds are more broken and the sun is hitting the track at the right angle, you can spot it a lot easier. the final S license test with the Porsche 917 is a good example.)

why do cars oversteer more easily and wildly in corners in higher gear, than in a lower gear where the engine is in its peak power band? Contrary to established reality, and real world race driver practices used all the way to Formula1.
this goes back to what i was saying about lateral grip vs speed vs contact patch vs tire compound. in an underpowered car like a Miata, losing grip in a corner is way less about power (i.e. what gear you're in) and more about what you're asking a tire to do. in real life if you were to, say, head down a freeway offramp at 110mph you could easily break the rear tires loose and oversteer regardless of what you do with the throttle.

you already mentioned this but not really in the right light, and that is wheel speed. let's say you're in a Miata on a huge perfectly flat parking lot, driving in a big fixed-radius circle at 100 mph, holding the throttle steady to maintain 100mph, with the most amount of steering input you can give before the car oversteers (this example assumes the car is actually set up and aligned to oversteer and not just plow/understeer as most street cars are set up from the factory, even 'sports' cars like a Miata.) idk what the gear ratios are like exactly in a Miata, but let's say at 100mph you could be in third gear at 6000 rpm or 4th gear at 4500 rpm. in either gear you could stab the throttle and turn the wheel the rest of the way 100% into the turn and start oversteering - in third gear your wheels could spin at a max of say, 110mph, but 4th gear they could potentially spin up to 150mph. 3rd gear is going to stay pretty controllable and you probably have enough steering angle to correct and hold it, at least for a few moments (i.e. drift) but 4th gear at a much higher wheel speed would be much, much harder to controller and you'd almost immediately spin all the way around even at full opposite lock.

as ever, it does get more complicated than that when you consider specifics of tire vs horsepower (the Miata might not have enough power to spin the wheels all the way up to redline even if the car was in a complete spin.) and the differential plays a huge role too as i'm sure you know, as an LSD could allow the car to slide while an open diff could just make the inside tire spin while the outside one retains just enough grip to keep the car going in a circle.

as for real world F1 practices, i really have no idea how that would compare to GT7 since i usually don't drive the open wheel high-downforce Formula type stuff unless i have to for a license test or something.

how relatively low powered sub 200 hp cars can keep the tyres spinning in higher gears, A car with that kind of power might chirp the wheel in 2nd gear if you do a clutch drop, and that's it. But in GT7 everything acts like a 500+HP drift car in this regard.
again this is going back to what i said about later grip and tires. it really doesn't matter what you're driving, if you ask for more lateral grip than a given tire can provide, it doesn't matter too much how much power you have or what gear you're in, if you can break grip, you can spin the tires. like i said, it's important to remember that when you're driving something like say, the Subaru BRZ/Toyota GR 86, sure they're not very powerful but you have to remember the tires they're driving on too.
 

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
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Sep 26, 2001
Messages
5,395
i decided to finally upgrade from my aging G27. since i already have a Fanatec shifter and handbrake, i went with the Fanatec GT DD Pro w/ CSL pedals with the clutch pedal "upgrade." only thing that sucks is i'm pretty sure i'm gonna have to heavily modify my sim rig to fit the pedals, which are quite wide (about 36 cm) :/ my sim rig is an older one that was kind of designed around the logitech pedals which are quite small

i'm gonna be brutally honest about how it feels in GT7 though. most of the sim racing content creators i watch who have tried GT7 with it say it's pretty lackluster in FFB (as M76 mentioned already) but i'm still excited to try it.
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,461
Saying I disagree without explanation is meaningless.

I'm not saying I must be 100% correct on what's the issue, you can convince me by offering alternate explanations for:
  1. why stock RWD cars behave in such a manner that if they were like this in real life most people who ever driven RWD cars would be dead. Especially those who ever driven a car in rain. There is more grip on black ice, than in the wet in GT7.
  2. why do cars oversteer more easily and wildly in corners in higher gear, than in a lower gear where the engine is in its peak power band? Contrary to established reality, and real world race driver practices used all the way to Formula1.
  3. how relatively low powered sub 200 hp cars can keep the tyres spinning in higher gears, A car with that kind of power might chirp the wheel in 2nd gear if you do a clutch drop, and that's it. But in GT7 everything acts like a 500+HP drift car in this regard.
I kindof agree, i always just chalked it up to me playing on controller, and it being a game.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
12,971
so to answer the first part, i don't see a particular behavior in GT7 regarding rwd cars that i find especially unrealistic.
And initially I was of the same opinion. Until it dawned on me that something is wrong here. As I already mentioned. At first glance GT7 seems much more realistic, and in many aspects it is, I'm not denying that. But there is a bug or mistake in the physics that causes odd behaviour especially with some RWD cars, but not all.
if anything i would say that the physics engine jump from GTS to GT7 (and this is NOT to say it's without flaws) is enough that i suspect it's catching people out who've become accustomed to the somewhat more relaxed behavior (particularly of road cars) in GTS. you referenced the behavior of a "stock Miata" earlier, and it's a common comparison to make between that and something like a Mustang GT500 because it's still rwd but also very underpowered; however, people also tend to forget that a Miata also typically drives around on little pizza cutters for wheels and your typical all-season mild performance tires. anything more serious has a major difference in both contact patch and compound which changes things so much that you can really never do an apples to apples comparison (unless, obviously, you put the same wheels and tires on both.) so yes, a stock Miata CAN blow the tires off mid-corner in third gear at 80 mph, but not because the physics engine is "broken" or doing something wonky, it's because you're asking a hard-compound tire 175mm wide to hold a lot of lateral G. once the lateral limit is reached it doesn't matter if it's a Miata or a Diablo. it's way more complicated than that of course (i haven't even mentioned differential simulation yet) but yeah.
You assume my frame of reference is limited to GTS. (which I haven't even played proper before GT7, just tried it after I Got frustrated with the issues in GT7) But no, I've been playing every major racing sim (not arcade games but hardcore sims) since the 90s. So either all of those games are wildly unrealistic or it's GT7 that has the problem. What's more likely? That all hardcore sims made in the past 20 years get tyre physics wrong, or the wannabe sim GT7 gets it wrong?
as for wet physics, i find the grip for the varying degrees of "wetness" of the surface (as depicted by the little surface grip meter they added to the hud) pretty much on point. if there's a sticking point there (no pun intended) it's that the game sometimes doesn't visually give enough cues to the player, depending on time of day and track etc, to clue you in on what you're about to be driving on (aside from the little grip meter, which of course no one has the benefit of IRL.) however the biggest thing that throws people for a loop, and it's not inaccurate, is the simulation of hydroplaning. the moment your car hydroplanes at all four wheels, forget it, you are literally just along for the ride. you might as well strap spinny caster wheels to all four corners for all the control you have. that's where some players are experiencing it and going what the fucking shit, why is my car just doing what it wants, this is uncontrollable! well yeah, that's exactly what should happen. it doesn't just have to happen on all four corners either, any wheel can hydroplane separately, which means driving in the wet can *quickly* become a stressful nightmare if your car is fitted with non-wet oriented tires. but like i said, GT7 doesn't always make it easy to spot where the surfaces are wet enough to create a hydroplaning risk (if the clouds are more broken and the sun is hitting the track at the right angle, you can spot it a lot easier. the final S license test with the Porsche 917 is a good example.)
The issue is not only present in the wet, the wet only exacerbates it tenfold. I appreciate how the game tries to simulate puddles and wet patches, although it is a bit ham-fisted at times with dynamic weather, when the grip suddenly goes from 100 to zero in a second, without any granularity.
this goes back to what i was saying about lateral grip vs speed vs contact patch vs tire compound. in an underpowered car like a Miata, losing grip in a corner is way less about power (i.e. what gear you're in) and more about what you're asking a tire to do. in real life if you were to, say, head down a freeway offramp at 110mph you could easily break the rear tires loose and oversteer regardless of what you do with the throttle.
That's well and fine, but we are not talking about lateral Gs here, we are talking about loosing grip under power when the lateral Gs are negligible. In the game lower torque on the wheels (higher gear) will cause the rear to snap oversteer faster, than using a lower gear (much higher torque at the wheels). This is just plain wrong, and not how it supposed to be.
you already mentioned this but not really in the right light, and that is wheel speed. let's say you're in a Miata on a huge perfectly flat parking lot, driving in a big fixed-radius circle at 100 mph, holding the throttle steady to maintain 100mph, with the most amount of steering input you can give before the car oversteers (this example assumes the car is actually set up and aligned to oversteer and not just plow/understeer as most street cars are set up from the factory, even 'sports' cars like a Miata.) idk what the gear ratios are like exactly in a Miata, but let's say at 100mph you could be in third gear at 6000 rpm or 4th gear at 4500 rpm. in either gear you could stab the throttle and turn the wheel the rest of the way 100% into the turn and start oversteering - in third gear your wheels could spin at a max of say, 110mph, but 4th gear they could potentially spin up to 150mph. 3rd gear is going to stay pretty controllable and you probably have enough steering angle to correct and hold it, at least for a few moments (i.e. drift) but 4th gear at a much higher wheel speed would be much, much harder to controller and you'd almost immediately spin all the way around even at full opposite lock.
A regular car will with open diff will just spin the inside tyres and not snap oversteer like the game suggests. And even with a car that has an LSD it needs to have enough power to make it go into an oversteer aka. powerslide. If the game was an accurete depiction a 150hp car would be perfect as a drift car.
as ever, it does get more complicated than that when you consider specifics of tire vs horsepower (the Miata might not have enough power to spin the wheels all the way up to redline even if the car was in a complete spin.) and the differential plays a huge role too as i'm sure you know, as an LSD could allow the car to slide while an open diff could just make the inside tire spin while the outside one retains just enough grip to keep the car going in a circle.
If you know that, then why doesn't it bother you that it all goes out the window in GT7? As cars with an LSD are less likely to oversteer in it, and cars easily go to the redline when the wheels spin.
as for real world F1 practices, i really have no idea how that would compare to GT7 since i usually don't drive the open wheel high-downforce Formula type stuff unless i have to for a license test or something.
This is not specific to F1 cars. Accelerating in higher gear should mean you are less likely to exceed the limits of the tyre. It is elementary. Yet GT7 does the exact opposite.
again this is going back to what i said about later grip and tires. it really doesn't matter what you're driving, if you ask for more lateral grip than a given tire can provide, it doesn't matter too much how much power you have or what gear you're in, if you can break grip, you can spin the tires. like i said, it's important to remember that when you're driving something like say, the Subaru BRZ/Toyota GR 86, sure they're not very powerful but you have to remember the tires they're driving on too.
As I mentioned this is not about lateral forces, but putting down the power.

You are not addressing the issues I've mentioned, but instead reinterpreting them as something else and then explaining those. I don't disagree with your explanations, but those are not the droids we seek.
 

Colonel Sanders

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can you give me a specific example (specific car, track, steps to reproduce)? because i still don't really see the problem you're describing, but maybe i just haven't hit the right scenario yet. i too have been sim racing since Papy's Indianapolis 500 game so i've got plenty of experience too.
 

BassTek

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i decided to finally upgrade from my aging G27. since i already have a Fanatec shifter and handbrake, i went with the Fanatec GT DD Pro w/ CSL pedals with the clutch pedal "upgrade." only thing that sucks is i'm pretty sure i'm gonna have to heavily modify my sim rig to fit the pedals, which are quite wide (about 36 cm) :/ my sim rig is an older one that was kind of designed around the logitech pedals which are quite small

i'm gonna be brutally honest about how it feels in GT7 though. most of the sim racing content creators i watch who have tried GT7 with it say it's pretty lackluster in FFB (as M76 mentioned already) but i'm still excited to try it.
Congrats! Did you get the clutch pedal separately or order a load cell upgrade for the brake and then use the old brake as a clutch?

You really should try the load cell brake as that is where the most improvement is pedal wise.

And yes the FFB in GT7 isn’t great. It’s pretty weak and it feels like some effects are just missing at times.
 

Colonel Sanders

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Congrats! Did you get the clutch pedal separately or order a load cell upgrade for the brake and then use the old brake as a clutch?

You really should try the load cell brake as that is where the most improvement is pedal wise.

And yes the FFB in GT7 isn’t great. It’s pretty weak and it feels like some effects are just missing at times.
i didn't get the load cell brake.. i had the CS v3 pedals before and i gave them plenty of hours of use but i just couldn't get used to the load cell brake. i went back to my logitech pedals w/ leo bodnar adapter and immediately gained back some lap time, lol. i might try it again some day but i'm definitely in no hurry to do so.
 

BassTek

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i didn't get the load cell brake.. i had the CS v3 pedals before and i gave them plenty of hours of use but i just couldn't get used to the load cell brake. i went back to my logitech pedals w/ leo bodnar adapter and immediately gained back some lap time, lol. i might try it again some day but i'm definitely in no hurry to do so.
Fair enough, usually they decrease your lap times once you get used to the load cell but they do feel a lot different so they aren’t for everyone.
 

the901

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Any hint of what people are running on Brands Hatch? I’m not familiar with this track so I’m looking for a target. 1.35?
 
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the901

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I don’t like turn 2.
1649560740197.png
 

Colonel Sanders

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Any hint of what people are running on Brands Hatch? I’m not familiar with this track so I’m looking for a target. 1.35?
i got a car down to a 1:35.9 but it was a really sloppy (though clean) lap that i couldn't replicate. the 3 or 4 cars i've tested a bit otherwise were in the 36's. most of my builds don't have aero/downforce and i'm pretty sure i need to rethink that, gonna test and post up a lap either tonight or tomorrow before the "deadline."
 

Colonel Sanders

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i ended up using the Ferrari 308 and my best was a 1:35.270.. might have been a couple of tiny track limits exceptions but we'll never know ;)

 

Colonel Sanders

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I missed out on week 1 of the trials but I’m still interested if there is a week 2.
there certainly will be a week 2 of anyone is interested! i'm thinking bathurst and gr.4.

edit: also i'm pretty hyped, my GT DD Pro is out for delivery today.. but they shipped the clutch pedal only yesterday so that won't be here until Friday :/ i guess i'll try it without my Fanatec shifter hooked up and try some gr.3 and gr.4 races to test it out
 

Colonel Sanders

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bleh, i couldn't try my DD pro yet because i needed to come up with a way to mount the base... my sim rig has no provision for adjusting angle of the wheel base and the DD Pro base mounts completely flat, making it unusable in my case :/ so i brain stormed for a while and realized i'd have to mount it from the side slots and use brackets of some kind to allow me to add some tilt. came up with these:

bracket.png


two on each side, with the short end used to mount to the sim rig's plate (turned inwards to save 'desk' space) should be plenty sturdy and allow adjustment of tilt, although it would require moving one pair of brackets and drilling new holes. at least you only gotta do that part once :) and then while i was searching for other peoples' solutions i found this pic, which was amusing as someone came up precisely the same solution, right down to the same brackets:

256793819_3115807588661034_2702509491445991696_n.jpg
 

Colonel Sanders

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oh yeah, i forgot to add - while i haven't been able to actually try anything in-game yet, i LOVE the csl pedals. the throttle is like the CSL v3's that i had before, very smooth, pretty long throw and just the right amount of resistance. the brake pedal though, feels SO good (as someone who has tried load cell but didn't really jive with it). it's crazy how perfectly progressive it feels, all from a little piece of foam stuffed behind the pedal, lol. i can tell already it's going to be such a good upgrade for me just in terms of better brake control and consistency. i also love that there isn't a large plate or chassis that goes all the way around, taking up way more room than necessary like with the V3s, only the foot plate in front of the pedals is wide. and since they let you adjust the pedal spacing with extra mounting holes, i could easily get them to fit in the small pedal area that my sim rig has (the V3s were almost impossible to use because of the wide frame.)

also i was happy to discover that fanatec has the exact same distance between the two main m6 hard mounting points on the CSLs and CSL v3s, so i don't have to mess with drilling more holes (the pedal plate is pretty thick steel and is a pain to drill through without a drill press.) the thing that keeps impressing me most with Fanatec stuff is it's just *engineered* so well, even if imperfect. they really make excellent use of space and materials, and some of their designs are downright genius. the shifter in particular is such a clever little device - the ability to slide a toggle switch and change between sequential or full h-pattern (complete with push-down-for-reverse/7th gear), all inside a pretty small metal box, is literal witchcraft.
 

Colonel Sanders

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just a quick lap from daily race C qualifying using the dd pro:



it's soooo nice to be able to use a wheel in GT7, i can just be that much more accurate and consistent.
 

Burticus

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I got GT7 for my bday.... I envy you people with wheel setups. I'm not loving this game with the gamepad.

This game is certainly beautiful.... but is it fun? Doing the driving tests and slogging through the low end races in the junk cars.... I'm not having fun yet.

To me, I have more fun with Dirt 5. But they're not exactly the same game I know.
 

Colonel Sanders

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I got GT7 for my bday.... I envy you people with wheel setups. I'm not loving this game with the gamepad.

This game is certainly beautiful.... but is it fun? Doing the driving tests and slogging through the low end races in the junk cars.... I'm not having fun yet.

To me, I have more fun with Dirt 5. But they're not exactly the same game I know.
there aren't that many events overall in the game that make you drive the really slow mundane stuff. the cafe mode has a few right at the start but then it moves right along to sport compact (Integra Type R, that type of stuff) and up, for the most part. you should have fun if you enjoy a more realistic approach to racing games, otherwise yeah Dirt 5 is gonna be more your thing.
 

Armenius

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Walmart is having a PS5 drop tomorrow for Walmart+ subscribers starting at noon EDT. I think there were a couple people in this thread who have been trying to get one. US only, as far as I know. Maybe Canada, as well.
 

Colonel Sanders

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Walmart is having a PS5 drop tomorrow for Walmart+ subscribers starting at noon EDT. I think there were a couple people in this thread who have been trying to get one. US only, as far as I know. Maybe Canada, as well.
the last walmart+ drop is how i got mine. i'd recommend trying it if someone is on the hunt for a ps5.
 

polonyc2

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Gran Turismo 7 update 1.13 has just been released for PS5 and PS4...the update adds three new playable cars to the game, including the Subaru BRZ GT300 ’21, Subaru BRZ S ’21, and Suzuki Cappuccino (EA11R) ’91...in addition, the new patch adds the Spa-Francorchamps 24h Layout as well as three new World Circuits events and "Gassho-style Houses in Ainokura" and "Cherry Blossoms at Night" locations in Scapes...

https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gt7/news/00_4999333.html
 

Armenius

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Gran Turismo 7 update 1.13 has just been released for PS5 and PS4...the update adds three new playable cars to the game, including the Subaru BRZ GT300 ’21, Subaru BRZ S ’21, and Suzuki Cappuccino (EA11R) ’91...in addition, the new patch adds the Spa-Francorchamps 24h Layout as well as three new World Circuits events and "Gassho-style Houses in Ainokura" and "Cherry Blossoms at Night" locations in Scapes...

https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gt7/news/00_4999333.html
Don't know what they mean by 24h layout. The only thing different about the circuit for the 24h race is the start line is on the downhill after La Source and the pit exit is at the top of Eau Rouge. The timing/finish line is still before La Source. The game doesn't support the kind of grid size that would necessitate such a change, unless Polyphony somehow plans on increasing the max grid size in the future.
 
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