GPUs: Gamers Left Behind as the Compute Market Taking Priority

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JoseJones

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What do you guys think of this video?

GPUs: Gamers Left Behind as the Compute Market Taking Priority



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So AMD has been focusing on compute power in their video cards for years now, and all of a sudden the sky is falling? I was just in a discussion this morning talking about how compute power has always been in AMD's marketing when a new video card comes out. I remember when all the major press outlets gouged their eyes out when the 4870 was announced as the first consumer video card to hit 1 TFLOP/s.
 
Until all that compute power is actually used to help graphics cards display games, all the TFLOPs in the world won't help gamers.
 
The compute market is still relatively young; lots of new revenue there. Of course they're chasing it.
 
JoseJones said:
What do you guys think of this video?

GPUs: Gamers Left Behind as the Compute Market Taking Priority



; (
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He doesn't know wtf he his talking about. AMD can't go into the other markets without a healthy gaming division, RTG makes the tech for games that works for other markets too! Not the other way around.

He did get this right, GPU's are not for gamers only anymore, that is why GPGPU is general purpose GPU's. AMD needs to create a scalable architecture. AKA Navi!

nV has most of the HPC and DL GPU market and guess what its only a fraction of their total profits lol, gaming is vastly larger, So how does this guys logic fit into, higher margin products like HPC and DL markets but much smaller volume lol. So AMD is focused on markets at this time makes less money than the gaming market? Yeah stupidity beyond........
 
JoseJones said:
Good luck building a VR PC: Ethereum miners are buying all the GPUs
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/...r_pc_ethereum_miners_are_buying_all_the_gpus/
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Maybe AMD should couple the Radeon 56 with Vive and/or Rift packs. Also Rx580 as well. You don't want a new market to stagnant and the above does not help. If AMD can get more VR units since Nvidia lower end cards are also having the same issue with miners that will help them as well as the new growing market. AMD selling to miners helps in killing the pc gaming market and new VR market. Selling to gamers/VR market has a longer benefit as far as I can see.
 
noko said:
Maybe AMD should couple the Radeon 56 with Vive and/or Rift packs. Also Rx580 as well. You don't want a new market to stagnant and the above does not help. If AMD can get more VR units since Nvidia lower end cards are also having the same issue with miners that will help them as well as the new growing market. AMD selling to miners helps in killing the pc gaming market and new VR market. Selling to gamers/VR market has a longer benefit as far as I can see.
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Selling cards at all has a benefit, so long as they're making a profit.

Of course, AMD has been peeling their skin back whilst building compute-centric GPUs and the irregular mining market has been just about the only market that's actually been demanding of their cards; for gaming purposes, AMD's cards are too slow and too expensive to produce to really bring the margins that result in profits.

As for VR, well, if Vega is as good as they can do (and it is, it's literally as big as they can make a GPU), they're still too slow. Not much point of bundling AMD cards with VR headsets when a 1080 Ti that eclipses available AMD gaming performance itself isn't fast enough VR.
 
JoseJones said:
I think he did a good job in the video even if it's not entirely inerrant he does make several good points. I do recall AMD making many bold claims about Vega's gaming abilities in December 2016 and it appears ever since then, AMD changed course and went after Cryptocurrency Mining instead.

August 18, 2017: AMD Releases Cryptocurrency Mining Driver, May Raise Vega Prices
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That's AMD's prerogative. Doesn't mean the rest of the industry will follow suit. AMD doesn't have the money to split their R&D and product lines like NVIDIA does.
 
^ that's a fair point, however, the fact remains that AMD did make many bold claims about gaming with Vega and it appears AMD changed course and went after Cryptocurrency Miniers instead, so - AMD LIED, they did the old bait & switch. Remember, "Poor Volta" by AMD ? Instead of Vega for gamers, we got FE. Vega is a dud. Hopefully AMD/Radeon will actually have something worth considering towards the end of the year.




upload_2017-8-22_7-25-19.jpeg
 
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JoseJones said:
Something Wrong At Radeon
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AMD pulled their funding of shill (probably due to the things they wanted shilling having already released, and therefore shill money is no longer profitable to invest in).
Said shill pulls a Charlie.

Simply typical shill vs shillmaster bargaining.

"You're going to stop paying for me to shill?
I'm going to try to make that as painful as possible for you without closing the door for you to start paying me again"
 
buttons said:
Ive had no trouble buying geforce 1080s. Just bought 3 this past week.
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The 1080 kind of sucks at mining so that is the main reason you can easily get them, try getting a 1070 these days.
 
Gideon said:
The 1080 kind of sucks at mining so that is the main reason you can easily get them, try getting a 1070 these days.
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Only sux in Eth mining, all other alt coins, its trumps the 1070 by a large margin. Zcash its like 25-30% faster than a 1070. and Zcash is just as profitable as Eth right now. All those penny coins, also its about 25 to 30% faster than a 1070.

Everyone is so hung up on Eth (because it "hot") they don't realize the potential of the other coins. Not only are they easy to mine right now, their profitability will only increase form this point on wards.

1070 EVGA's easy to get actually, so yeah your correlation on mining is correct but still can get them and EVGA's cards are the best to get for gaming.
 
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Prices are too expensive for me now days. I've moved on to building vintage rigs and playing the best games of the PC golden years.
 
i have 4 1080s right now, all mining. I looked at the mining calculators and didnt see any advantage going with a 1070 for about the same price. Plus i do VR on occasion
 
razor1 said:
Only sux in Eth mining, all other alt coins, its trumps the 1070 by a large margin. Zcash its like 25-30% faster than a 1070. and Zcash is just as profitable as Eth right now. All those penny coins, also its about 25 to 30% faster than a 1070.

Everyone is so hung up on Eth (because it "hot") they don't realize the potential of the other coins. Not only are they easy to mine right now, their profitability will only increase form this point on wards.

1070 EVGA's easy to get actually, so yeah your correlation on mining is correct but still can get them and EVGA's cards are the best to get for gaming.
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I personally dont care much for EVGA, seen far to many fail, so for me I would pass on them. Will see if these other alt coins gain traction but for now seems the 1080 is not in demand by the miners, that may change at some point tho. I personally wish someone would make mining cards tho so the video card market could go back to normal.
 
Gideon said:
I personally dont care much for EVGA, seen far to many fail, so for me I would pass on them. Will see if these other alt coins gain traction but for now seems the 1080 is not in demand by the miners, that may change at some point tho. I personally wish someone would make mining cards tho so the video card market could go back to normal.
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mining cards won't change anything, the reason why graming cards are in high demand even though Asus and another created mining cards, is because of the resale value of the gaming cards. Mining cards will have no resale value. Even if production increases with gaming cards, I doubt that will change anything either. Miners will just buy more, its a bottomless pit cause for them its cash, ever card they can get, is pretty much 100% to 125% turnaround in a year. Possibly even more if we look at coin maturity.

EVGA cards are probably the best, yeah they had a couple bad apples at launch with poorly placed heat sinks and thermal pads, but that happens at times, over all their support is top notch. Personally never had an issue with any of their cards, but then again I have never a card fail on me without my intervention of overclocking and changing things in bios and what not.
 
razor1 said:
mining cards won't change anything, the reason why graming cards are in high demand even though Asus and another created mining cards, is because of the resale value of the gaming cards. Mining cards will have no resale value. Even if production increases with gaming cards, I doubt that will change anything either. Miners will just buy more, its a bottomless pit cause for them its cash, ever card they can get, is pretty much 100% to 125% turnaround in a year. Possibly even more if we look at coin maturity.

EVGA cards are probably the best, yeah they had a couple bad apples at launch with poorly placed heat sinks and thermal pads, but that happens at times, over all their support is top notch. Personally never had an issue with any of their cards, but then again I have never a card fail on me without my intervention of overclocking and changing things in bios and what not.
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Resale value tho has limits, when people try to sell these cards by the truck load it will crash the value fast. I mean when I picked up my second 290x was after the bitcoin craze and people were selling them left and right and I got it super cheap. So I agree at first the resale value would be a good reason, but unless you sell it in the first wave or so the resale value plummets pretty quick. I doubt the two guys that bought my 290x cards will get more then 100 bucks for them when they try to dump them. I think you will see the same thing when people start dumping there 1070 cards when ETH becomes more difficult. I know you think many will keep them and mine alt coins but I think many will still dump the cards rather then do other coins unless 1 jumps up quite a bit in value. But I think if someone made a card that had at least 1.5x the mining rate of a video card people would switch I think. Guess will see in a month or two as I think the difficulty increase should hit by then. (forgive me if I am wrong on the timing as I dont follow ETH super close)
 
Gideon said:
Resale value tho has limits, when people try to sell these cards by the truck load it will crash the value fast. I mean when I picked up my second 290x was after the bitcoin craze and people were selling them left and right and I got it super cheap. So I agree at first the resale value would be a good reason, but unless you sell it in the first wave or so the resale value plummets pretty quick. I doubt the two guys that bought my 290x cards will get more then 100 bucks for them when they try to dump them. I think you will see the same thing when people start dumping there 1070 cards when ETH becomes more difficult. I know you think many will keep them and mine alt coins but I think many will still dump the cards rather then do other coins unless 1 jumps up quite a bit in value. But I think if someone made a card that had at least 1.5x the mining rate of a video card people would switch I think. Guess will see in a month or two as I think the difficulty increase should hit by then. (forgive me if I am wrong on the timing as I dont follow ETH super close)
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Well here is the thing even a dropped resale value is better than no resale value, mining cards will not have any resale value lol.

Its not the value of each individual coin that matters, I've been mining ETH for close 4 to 5 months now but been watching it for over a year. Its the total value of what can be mined at a given difficulty that matters, 1 coin today was worth 2 coins yesterday, but if you were able to mine 2 coins yesterday and only 1 coin today because of the difficulty you are still making the same amount of money.

Thats why a lot people when they first start mining are like great I get 10 coins ever day or what ever for the life time of the coin and then get more money in the future too, no doesn't work that way usually mining and demand vs supply go hand in hand, as mining gets harder due to difficulty this hurts supply and thus the price goes up, but only up to a certain point since after that speculation comes into play. Its just like the stock market. I don't play the speculation game much, I save some of the penny coins and about 15% of my ETH but that is it, the rest I cash out. The 1070's won't get dropped that fast though, if people know about the other coins, which if they are doing at a business should know lol. Anyone that knows about Eth will know about Zcash, cause they kinda came up at the same time. Eth is just more popular cause people with AMD cards were able to mine it first because of the lack of miners for nV cards. AMD does have good Zcash miners too.

PS this is also why if ya can't pay off the hardware investment in the first 6 months of a new coin its not worth it, cause the profit margins drops off a cliff after that and I know people from the first bitcoin and litecoin craze that made out only even cause they didn't realize this.
 
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I don't care about the investment.. In my life I have throw away so much money. So I spend money on what I want.
 
I could be wrong here (I wasn't tracking 1080 FTW prices before the craze hit) but EVGA GTX 1080 FTW prices seem lower than before the mining craze hit and EVGA 1070 FTW is where it was prices back in January 2017. Used prices are still stupid high on ebay so just stay away from there for a while or, spend $50 more than a 1070 FTW cost and buy a new 1080 FTW card that has one more year warranty on it than a used 1070 FTW. The market is pretty straight forward right now. IMO the problem is ... uninformed/uneducated buyers.
If you have a 10 series mining card I don't see a problem posting it same price as a "used for gaming only" card as long as you supply the original receipt to prove the card hasn't been mined with for the past 6 months or a year.
 
I remember seeing numbers were gamers weres till the main market and income from NVIDIA.
 
Gideon said:
The 1080 kind of sucks at mining so that is the main reason you can easily get them, try getting a 1070 these days.
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Or GTX 1050 Ti, for that matter - even Amazon.com can't keep them in stock. The reason I was able to get mine at all is that the various brands have different restock dates, and I was able to pull the trigger of mine on a Saturday - not exactly a high-demand day for orders
 
Gideon said:
Resale value tho has limits, when people try to sell these cards by the truck load it will crash the value fast. I mean when I picked up my second 290x was after the bitcoin craze and people were selling them left and right and I got it super cheap. So I agree at first the resale value would be a good reason, but unless you sell it in the first wave or so the resale value plummets pretty quick. I doubt the two guys that bought my 290x cards will get more then 100 bucks for them when they try to dump them. I think you will see the same thing when people start dumping there 1070 cards when ETH becomes more difficult. I know you think many will keep them and mine alt coins but I think many will still dump the cards rather then do other coins unless 1 jumps up quite a bit in value. But I think if someone made a card that had at least 1.5x the mining rate of a video card people would switch I think. Guess will see in a month or two as I think the difficulty increase should hit by then. (forgive me if I am wrong on the timing as I dont follow ETH super close)
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Yeah, no. Mining won't crash overnight the way things happened with Bitcoin. Circumstances are completely different now. At the time of the flood of GPUs after BTC, there was nothing else immediately until LTC showed up. BTC was also more of an unknown, now it's entrenched.

Now there are thousands of altcoins and if ETH profitability takes a hit people will just move to other coins. The magic flood of cheap GPUs that casual observers just assume will happen, is never going to happen. Just because you throw a few ice cubes into one end of a pool doesn't mean the whole pool inmediately gets colder and people start jumping out.

Mining specific GPUs are also a no-go, and you can't get them outside of China anyway. And the large Chinese superfarms are ignoring them which tells you something. They prefer the regular gaming cards; I've talked to some of these marble mouthed shitheads and picked their brains when selling my GPUs.

Mining is here to stay, I'm afraid .. at least the 1080 Ti is still MSRP and that's really the best gaming card anyway.
 
DPI said:
Yeah, no. Mining won't crash overnight the way things happened with Bitcoin. Circumstances are completely different now. At the time of the flood of GPUs after BTC, there was nothing else immediately until LTC showed up. BTC was also more of an unknown, now it's entrenched.

Now there are thousands of altcoins and if ETH profitability takes a hit people will just move to other coins. The magic flood of cheap GPUs that casual observers just assume will happen, is never going to happen. Just because you throw a few ice cubes into one end of a pool doesn't mean the whole pool inmediately gets colder and people start jumping out.

Mining specific GPUs are also a no-go, and you can't get them outside of China anyway. And the large Chinese superfarms are ignoring them which tells you something. They prefer the regular gaming cards; I've talked to some of these marble mouthed shitheads and picked their brains when selling my GPUs.

Mining is here to stay, I'm afraid .. at least the 1080 Ti is still MSRP and that's really the best gaming card anyway.
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Well its all about perf/$ that the card can get and perf/watt the card can achieve. Its even more pronounced in mining. That's why the top end cards, if they don't have both those, won't be eaten up by miners. Just not worth it when looking at lets say over 100 cards, it takes its toll. .50 cents per card loss per day, that's 18000 bucks a year. This is only 100 cards, if we are talking about 1000's of cards that 180,000 per year or more.
 
A lot of bulk card purchases might (again might) slow down when Ethereum goes proof of stake. Even though it only takes a few minutes to mine something new, what might happen is that it can shift what card is bought to mine with. Maybe next card to sell out might be the 1080, don't know.

Even though it's been stated quite a few times that there are other coins that are profitable, or easier to mine other coins and trade for BTC, that requires work. Something that many people might not want to mess with.
 
Hakaba said:
A lot of bulk card purchases might (again might) slow down when Ethereum goes proof of stake. Even though it only takes a few minutes to mine something new, what might happen is that it can shift what card is bought to mine with. Maybe next card to sell out might be the 1080, don't know.

Even though it's been stated quite a few times that there are other coins that are profitable, or easier to mine other coins and trade for BTC, that requires work. Something that many people might not want to mess with.
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There are pools out there that do the transactions for ya, nicehash is one of them, zpool is another. More of the smaller miners are going towards them right now, easier than going through an exchange. Pretty sure there will be exchanges and mining pools combined in the future, one shop stop with less %'s cut too, only makes sense it will go that way.
 
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