GPUs available and shipped from Amazon Japan

aznever

Gawd
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
586
There are a few RTX and Radeon cards ranging from $500-$1800, shipped from Amazon Japan as a seller directly.

Link
 

sgrinavi

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,797
Or...

You could game all day if you so desire. Mine with your GPU at night and make $2/day in a few hours, and have $500-700 after expenses after a year to put towards your next video card.

yeah... game all day. I need a dozen 3060tis
 

sover

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
402
Or...

You could game all day if you so desire. Mine with your GPU at night and make $2/day in a few hours, and have $500-700 after expenses after a year to put towards your next video card.

Sure, if that's what you want to do have at it.

If just using the card for what it was meant for (gaming) isn't enough to make you happy, or you just can't afford it then that's just part of life. The good news is eventually there will be something cheap enough for you to afford if people stop thinking they can get some kind of other "ROI" and driving the prices of cards up.
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
28,489
If just using the card for what it was meant for (gaming) isn't enough to make you happy, or you just can't afford it then that's just part of life. The good news is eventually there will be something cheap enough for you to afford if people stop thinking they can get some kind of other "ROI" and driving the prices of cards up.

Whatever floats your boat, but I don't understand why people AREN'T thinking in terms of ROI with everything they own at some level.

Plus, I disagree with your premise that "what it was meant for" is gaming. You can say that's how YOU like to use it, but anything else is subject to debate.
 

raz-0

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Messages
4,800
Whatever floats your boat, but I don't understand why people AREN'T thinking in terms of ROI with everything they own at some level.

Plus, I disagree with your premise that "what it was meant for" is gaming. You can say that's how YOU like to use it, but anything else is subject to debate.

It was designed for lots of things. But no place in the product advertising was crypto mining put forth. It'll do it because math, but if you want people to be sympathetic to you, you might choose a place that hasn't been mostly about hardware with a view to gaming performance since inception. Especially since crypto mining has been shitting all over their fun for two card generations now.
 

legcramp

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
11,571
^ That place better remove the "Mining & Cryptocurrency" section of its forum then.
 

sover

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
402
It was designed for lots of things. But no place in the product advertising was crypto mining put forth. It'll do it because math, but if you want people to be sympathetic to you, you might choose a place that hasn't been mostly about hardware with a view to gaming performance since inception. Especially since crypto mining has been shitting all over their fun for two card generations now.

More than that, at one point you could say, "well, it's marketed as for gaming, but that doesn't mean it's not meant for crypto," but the LHR stuff pretty well establishes that they in fact don't want them sold for crypto, they want them sold to gamers. The fact that they have a whole separate line of cards specifically for crypto clinches it.
 

LukeTbk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
1,148
No. You just foolish for leaving money on the table when you not using it.
Isn't that what flexing is ? Showing you are so wealthy you can do foolish use with it (most expensive phone, sport car, 24 gig video cards to play games, 16 core cpu to game with, etc...)
 
Last edited:

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
14,799
The return on investment is in enjoying playing games with high quality settings and at high framerates.
If you think there's some value in being able to do that RIGHT NOW, then hey good for you. Me, nah there's no value in having that right now, I can wait until prices come back to sane levels.
 

defaultluser

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
14,114
More than that, at one point you could say, "well, it's marketed as for gaming, but that doesn't mean it's not meant for crypto," but the LHR stuff pretty well establishes that they in fact don't want them sold for crypto, they want them sold to gamers. The fact that they have a whole separate line of cards specifically for crypto clinches it.

So, just because NVIDIA decided it was cheaper to invest in new memory for RTX 2.0 gaming, that somehow they designed their GPUs for "mining-first?"

Such cockiness; at least they didn't hit a 4k performance wall like AMD's Amazingcache did! If you're not careful NVIDIA could follow AMD's lead with their own OutstandingCache (and cause all-memory-limited mining to hit a wall)
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
28,489
It was designed for lots of things. But no place in the product advertising was crypto mining put forth. It'll do it because math, but if you want people to be sympathetic to you, you might choose a place that hasn't been mostly about hardware with a view to gaming performance since inception. Especially since crypto mining has been shitting all over their fun for two card generations now.

https://hardforum.com/threads/mining-on-gpu-exploit-or-part-of-intended-use.2010538/

You realize you're in the minority with that narrow line of thinking right?
 

sover

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
402
If you think there's some value in being able to do that RIGHT NOW, then hey good for you. Me, nah there's no value in having that right now, I can wait until prices come back to sane levels.
I'm not saying the current prices are justified, I don't think they generally are. I'm saying the main "return on investment" for buying a GPU is in playing great games with high quality settings and framerates. If that's not enough for someone and they think ROI buying a gaming card means running crypto things on it to try to make money then there isn't any guarantee that they'll actually get the ROI they're thinking. The only surefire ROI you'll get from any gaming GPU you buy is some better performance in some games.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
501
Whatever floats your boat, but I don't understand why people AREN'T thinking in terms of ROI with everything they own at some level.

This and only this. I could write for hours on this, but the concise version is, a lot of people are too; stupid, uneducated, unmotivated, obstinate, and / or infatuated with one small obstacle to take the steps towards understanding this. I own two cars, both worth more than I paid for them. My main computer (3950x, X570, 6900XT, 2x 1TB NVME, 2TB 2.5" SSD, + 2x 5TB HDD, etc, etc...) is worth more in parts than I paid for it by a considerable (+50%) margin. I'm also not one of these people who has an infinite amount of free time to search for deals, or use bots to buy up parts, in fact quite the opposite. It's simply just common sense to concern yourself with out the door expense even if you have the money to burn. Personal finance is a net sum game. One expense, investment, or return affects every other aspect. Simply being mindful of this leads to greater overall success.

I understand there's a lot of variables involved in this; pricing, difficulty, shifts in market, parts lifespan, etc, etc.. But... Example 1: Mine $40 in profit per month in crypto with parts you already use and or are going to own over the next 30 years. Put that $40 per month towards your mortgage ($350,000.00 / 20% Down / 3% Interest Rate). Started today your mortage would be paid off June 8th, 2051. Pay that extra $40 / month from the mining profit to your mortgage and you'd pay it off December 8th, 2049. Who wouldn't want to pay their mortgage off 18 months early? Not only that you're now taking that $40 and saving $8,410.45 in interest over the life of the loan.

Fluid Example 2: Put that $40 per month into a interest bearing account or the stock market based on your risk tolerance. Blockfi pays 5% on BTC, 8.6% on USDC, and the stock market annualizes 7% returns. $40 / month over thirty years breaks down to $14,400 invested and returns:

BTC 5% return = $31,890.65
USDC 8.6% return = $60,737.54
Stock Market 7% return = $45,341.18

The people sitting here saying it isn't worth their time are the same people complaining about GPU prices being too expensive, but don't seem to understand simple personal finance. "Ooh, I spent more than MSRP on my GPU, but it returned that near much mining, and I now actually have equity in a depreciating asset. I can then use that equity to snowball a future investment for the rest of my life returning hundreds of percent in profit, but that's not worth my time. Let's go to the [H] news section and derail topics with unrelated political posts instead. That's a much better use of my time."
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
2,324
This and only this. I could write for hours on this, but the concise version is, a lot of people are too; stupid, uneducated, unmotivated, obstinate, and / or infatuated with one small obstacle to take the steps towards understanding this. I own two cars, both worth more than I paid for them. My main computer (3950x, X570, 6900XT, 2x 1TB NVME, 2TB 2.5" SSD, + 2x 5TB HDD, etc, etc...) is worth more in parts than I paid for it by a considerable (+50%) margin. I'm also not one of these people who has an infinite amount of free time to search for deals, or use bots to buy up parts, in fact quite the opposite. It's simply just common sense to concern yourself with out the door expense even if you have the money to burn. Personal finance is a net sum game. One expense, investment, or return affects every other aspect. Simply being mindful of this leads to greater overall success.

I understand there's a lot of variables involved in this; pricing, difficulty, shifts in market, parts lifespan, etc, etc.. But... Example 1: Mine $40 in profit per month in crypto with parts you already use and or are going to own over the next 30 years. Put that $40 per month towards your mortgage ($350,000.00 / 20% Down / 3% Interest Rate). Started today your mortage would be paid off June 8th, 2051. Pay that extra $40 / month from the mining profit to your mortgage and you'd pay it off December 8th, 2049. Who wouldn't want to pay their mortgage off 18 months early? Not only that you're now taking that $40 and saving $8,410.45 in interest over the life of the loan.

Fluid Example 2: Put that $40 per month into a interest bearing account or the stock market based on your risk tolerance. Blockfi pays 5% on BTC, 8.6% on USDC, and the stock market annualizes 7% returns. $40 / month over thirty years breaks down to $14,400 invested and returns:

BTC 5% return = $31,890.65
USDC 8.6% return = $60,737.54
Stock Market 7% return = $45,341.18

The people sitting here saying it isn't worth their time are the same people complaining about GPU prices being too expensive, but don't seem to understand simple personal finance. "Ooh, I spent more than MSRP on my GPU, but it returned that near much mining, and I now actually have equity in a depreciating asset. I can then use that equity to snowball a future investment for the rest of my life returning hundreds of percent in profit, but that's not worth my time. Let's go to the [H] news section and derail topics with unrelated political posts instead. That's a much better use of my time."
Agree with most of this but I do wonder how long you will get 8.6% returns on USDC. You could also just have better spending habits and easily get $40/month w/o wasting energy.
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
31,381
This and only this. I could write for hours on this, but the concise version is, a lot of people are too; stupid, uneducated, unmotivated, obstinate, and / or infatuated with one small obstacle to take the steps towards understanding this. I own two cars, both worth more than I paid for them. My main computer (3950x, X570, 6900XT, 2x 1TB NVME, 2TB 2.5" SSD, + 2x 5TB HDD, etc, etc...) is worth more in parts than I paid for it by a considerable (+50%) margin. I'm also not one of these people who has an infinite amount of free time to search for deals, or use bots to buy up parts, in fact quite the opposite. It's simply just common sense to concern yourself with out the door expense even if you have the money to burn. Personal finance is a net sum game. One expense, investment, or return affects every other aspect. Simply being mindful of this leads to greater overall success.
Or just don't feel like dealing with it, especially given uncertainty around the laws, the heat, the added complexity, the added wear, the cost to run it, or the financial and tax implications, which are still getting sorted out. My state asks, literally, "do you or have you owned, at any point in the last year, any crypto currency?" on our tax forms - my taxes are complex enough, I'm not lying to the IRS.
I understand there's a lot of variables involved in this; pricing, difficulty, shifts in market, parts lifespan, etc, etc.. But... Example 1: Mine $40 in profit per month in crypto with parts you already use and or are going to own over the next 30 years. Put that $40 per month towards your mortgage ($350,000.00 / 20% Down / 3% Interest Rate). Started today your mortage would be paid off June 8th, 2051. Pay that extra $40 / month from the mining profit to your mortgage and you'd pay it off December 8th, 2049. Who wouldn't want to pay their mortgage off 18 months early? Not only that you're now taking that $40 and saving $8,410.45 in interest over the life of the loan.

Fluid Example 2: Put that $40 per month into a interest bearing account or the stock market based on your risk tolerance. Blockfi pays 5% on BTC, 8.6% on USDC, and the stock market annualizes 7% returns. $40 / month over thirty years breaks down to $14,400 invested and returns:

BTC 5% return = $31,890.65
USDC 8.6% return = $60,737.54
Stock Market 7% return = $45,341.18

The people sitting here saying it isn't worth their time are the same people complaining about GPU prices being too expensive, but don't seem to understand simple personal finance. "Ooh, I spent more than MSRP on my GPU, but it returned that near much mining, and I now actually have equity in a depreciating asset. I can then use that equity to snowball a future investment for the rest of my life returning hundreds of percent in profit, but that's not worth my time. Let's go to the [H] news section and derail topics with unrelated political posts instead. That's a much better use of my time."
It's not worth my time, my discomfort, the bitching about the power bill, or dealing with my accountant for the taxes at the end of the year. I'll stick to more traditional investments and real estate - both of which are doing just fine right now. Also, fair point made - I'm not bitching about GPU prices, and I own 5 of the current generation in various forms (3090/80/70 + 2x 6800XT), although I'm giving the 3080 to a friend once the second 6800XT is back from RMA.

The ROI on mining isn't significant enough, and incurs both potential financial issues, and also a crap-ton of potential comfort issues (that shit gets hot man, and it's already blown through 90 here).
 

Krenum

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Messages
17,917
Whatever floats your boat, but I don't understand why people AREN'T thinking in terms of ROI with everything they own at some level.

Plus, I disagree with your premise that "what it was meant for" is gaming. You can say that's how YOU like to use it, but anything else is subject to debate.
Nvidia & AMD do not advertise cryptomining or ROI on the graphics card box or any of their driver updates. Until they do, these cards are for gaming & video purposes.
 
Last edited:

Ocellaris

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
19,042
More than that, at one point you could say, "well, it's marketed as for gaming, but that doesn't mean it's not meant for crypto," but the LHR stuff pretty well establishes that they in fact don't want them sold for crypto, they want them sold to gamers. The fact that they have a whole separate line of cards specifically for crypto clinches it.

It’s the opposite. They don’t want cards used for mining dumped back into the secondary market when crypto crashes. Nvidia wants to sell GPU dies, that’s what they do. Affordable and accessible old GPUs hurt new GPU sales.

So Nvidia pushes to make mining cards with no video output and sell those to miners. Then they pretend to be gamer friends and sell them gimped cards for general use. When crypto crashes, the mining cards go into a landfill. Then gamers don’t have a wonderful pool of used mining cards to buy, so they need to buy new ones.

So instead of making general purpose cards for anyone, Nvidia gets to split their own market and sell more GPUs by making some which will end up in the trash.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
501
Agree with most of this but I do wonder how long you will get 8.6% returns on USDC. You could also just have better spending habits and easily get $40/month w/o wasting energy.
It was a fluid example, take the 7% annualized return in the stock market then or get 3-4% in tax free municipal bonds. Even the safest example of cashing out and paying extra on your mortgage every month saves thousands. This is obviously executed on top of common sense.

Iopoetve said:
Or just don't feel like dealing with it, especially given uncertainty around the laws, the heat, the added complexity, the added wear, the cost to run it, or the financial and tax implications, which are still getting sorted out. My state asks, literally, "do you or have you owned, at any point in the last year, any crypto currency?" on our tax forms - my taxes are complex enough, I'm not lying to the IRS. It's not worth my time, my discomfort, the bitching about the power bill, or dealing with my accountant for the taxes at the end of the year.

Your response illustrated my point perfectly. Your lack of desire to take the steps needed to understand the potential / scope of the idea because of trivial issues is the same thing holding you back. Without going into an entire rant:

- AC systems have these things called thermostats that dynamically hold a temperature target.
- Electrical cost is a small expense percentage out of your net, the same way tax preparation is, and easily covered by mining income.
- There's no laws against cryptocurrency mining in the US. There's tax laws that if you break them it doesn't matter why you're doing it, the punishment is the same.
- While anecdotal a GPU potentially dying early is entirely covered by the income it generates.

Lots of people don't exercise because of the same factors you listed as the reasons you avoid mining despite having every opportunity to; discomfort, hot, makes things difficult, don't want to deal with it, etc... but it's a rather common denominator in lifespan projections. Your avoidance of an idea doesn't mean it's the best choice.
 

defaultluser

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
14,114
It’

So instead of making general purpose cards for anyone, Nvidia gets to split their own market and sell more GPUs by making some which will end up in the trash.

No, they will end-up in someone's discount Compute Farm. Much like the Backblaze of the world, there's compute that is self-veriffying (see distributed Folding, as one example).

Hell, even when you turn on ECC on an Nvidia HBM compute card, it can take a lot longer to finish (so, if you can distribute the problem, tripling the computation on cheaper cards will give you similar reliability, at lower cost!)

Nvidia will stiill have an impavct here , just businesses instead of consumers.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
501
No, they will end-up in someone's discount Compute Farm. Much like the Backblaze of the world, there's compute that is self-veriffying (see distributed Folding, as one example).

Hell, even when you turn on ECC on an Nvidia HBM compute card, it can take a lot longer to finish (so, if you can distribute the problem, tripling the computation on cheaper cards will give you similar reliability, at lower cost!)

I'm not arguing that you're correct that SOME of them may end up getting repurposed, but... This is like saying a large company that replaces all their user's desktops on a 5 year basis will have them end up in an x86 cluster because it's cheaper to distribute the workload across 100 computers than one. The vast majority of electronic components end up getting recycled or end up in landfills. E-cyclers will end up refurbishing and more than likely reselling those desktops because of their varied use potential and appeal to basic end users because of their cheap price. This isn't happening with mining GPU. They get resold as parts, recycled and shredded (or burned depending on where they end up), or dumped in a landfill. Planned obsolescence is real in the tech manufacturing world.
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
31,381
It was a fluid example, take the 7% annualized return in the stock market then or get 3-4% in tax free municipal bonds. Even the safest example of cashing out and paying extra on your mortgage every month saves thousands. This is obviously executed on top of common sense.



Your response illustrated my point perfectly. Your lack of desire to take the steps needed to understand the potential / scope of the idea because of trivial issues is the same thing holding you back. Without going into an entire rant:

- AC systems have these things called thermostats that dynamically hold a temperature target.
With the number of systems I have, all running at once (most of them run server workloads when not being interacted with, or are off), the thermostat doesn't matter (8 systems active at peak, 4 of which are HEDT of various recent or current generations). Especially when it's 90 degrees outside - I keep the two big HEDT systems off during the summer or my office will easily hit 85-88 degrees ambient, with the AC running. That makes the room unusable. Adding in GPU workloads at the same time across the 5 boxes with real GPUs? I'm betting I'd crack 90 in the room. Even with the AC running (which will gladly keep the rest of the house at 70 degrees all day long). That's not a usable room - it's misery

- Electrical cost is a small expense percentage out of your net, the same way tax preparation is, and easily covered by mining income.
You're missing the tax COSTS. I already have to write the US Government a large check each year - I don't have any particular desire to make it larger, especially in a non-liquid asset (that may have gone to zero at any point) that I'd have to convert. Converting on the fly would definitely result in a larger tax bill every year - which I'd also like to avoid, as the returns are not high enough for the added complications and complexity. To rephrase: Depending on how they decide to interpret things over the next few years, crypto currency could be seen as an asset (taxes taken based on capital gains when converted/sold), currency (taxes taken in various ways depending on country/locale), or some weird hybrid. Since it's not a currency (the IRS will not take it as payment, nor is it automatically converted to USD like RSUs or incentive stock), you have to convert it at tax time - which depending on how they decide to tax it here in the long run, especially with the chinese making moves and a democratic/progressive administration, could leave me in a weird spot coming up with actual currency when I don't have it easily available. Depending on who you are, that may be more complex than you think.

- There's no laws against cryptocurrency mining in the US. There's tax laws that if you break them it doesn't matter why you're doing it, the punishment is the same.
Right now. It's also not fully defined how it's counted, managed, valued, taxed, etc. It's a gray area. Depending on your finances, risk aversion, and needs, that may or may not be a place you want to play. Also your long term goals and where you are on the path to those. Not saying you're wrong, just that it's not ~universal~.
- While anecdotal a GPU potentially dying early is entirely covered by the income it generates.
In theory. It could also result in no income, unless you're converting daily, which ~definitely~ generates a tax impact - and potentially a very significant one. Finances are more complex than just returns on a fund or the like, especially since the tax implications of those are well defined (if annoying; capital gains on a mutual fund suck at times).
Lots of people don't exercise because of the same factors you listed as the reasons you avoid mining despite having every opportunity to; discomfort, hot, makes things difficult, don't want to deal with it, etc... but it's a rather common denominator in lifespan projections. Your avoidance of an idea doesn't mean it's the best choice.
You're also missing the significant environmental impact, but I'll leave it at this - you don't know my finances, and I ~personally~ don't find anything with mining compelling from a financial perspective. I'm not at all a fan of banning it / blocking it / whatever - you do you. From my perspective, I see no notable benefit and significant risk, as well as a great deal of discomfort physically, based on the layout of my systems and the room they are on. Compared to exercise, which does create discomfort, but has a very significant impact to, well, a great many things, it's just not worth it to me (and I'm a dude that lost 75 lbs over the pandemic).

I'm simply not working in a 90 degree room.
 

unholythree

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
232
I'm not arguing that you're correct that SOME of them may end up getting repurposed, but... This is like saying a large company that replaces all their user's desktops on a 5 year basis will have them end up in an x86 cluster because it's cheaper to distribute the workload across 100 computers than one. The vast majority of electronic components end up getting recycled or end up in landfills. E-cyclers will end up refurbishing and more than likely reselling those desktops because of their varied use potential and appeal to basic end users because of their cheap price. This isn't happening with mining GPU. They get resold as parts, recycled and shredded (or burned depending on where they end up), or dumped in a landfill. Planned obsolescence is real in the tech manufacturing world.
I was nodding along with you, but then I got to thinking: we're talking about the sort of people that get all frothy about $8 a day ROI for maybe just next week, or maybe the next few months, who knows. One thing is certain though they aren't going to just throw out something with some conceivable value. In fact the real whales in this whole racket are probably even more likely to at least unload them at wholesale in the end. Why leave cash on the table?
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
28,301
One thing is certain though they aren't going to just throw out something with some conceivable value. In fact the real whales in this whole racket are probably even more likely to at least unload them at wholesale in the end. Why leave cash on the table?
nope they are going to milk people for all its worth. they still charge top dollar, expecting the next buyer is a miner too. cards that were $400 3 years ago should not be going for near $400 today.
 

Archaea

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
11,274
Or just don't feel like dealing with it, especially given uncertainty around the laws, the heat, the added complexity, the added wear, the cost to run it, or the financial and tax implications, which are still getting sorted out. My state asks, literally, "do you or have you owned, at any point in the last year, any crypto currency?" on our tax forms - my taxes are complex enough, I'm not lying to the IRS.

It's not worth my time, my discomfort, the bitching about the power bill, or dealing with my accountant for the taxes at the end of the year. I'll stick to more traditional investments and real estate - both of which are doing just fine right now. Also, fair point made - I'm not bitching about GPU prices, and I own 5 of the current generation in various forms (3090/80/70 + 2x 6800XT), although I'm giving the 3080 to a friend once the second 6800XT is back from RMA.

The ROI on mining isn't significant enough, and incurs both potential financial issues, and also a crap-ton of potential comfort issues (that shit gets hot man, and it's already blown through 90 here).
Multiple things here. The crypto question is now a federal question. Not just state.
So don’t lie to the IRS. I mine and I report it all.

If you had five current generation graphics cards mining since January 1, you would have made about $6K to this point. How do I know? Becuse that’s what I did. Your electricity would have been about $3 a day. $90 a month x five months = $450 on electricity for $6k in crypto. You could have used the cards for subsidized heating cost until this early summer timeframe. Even now it’s still a profitable to mine against electricity, by ~ 8 fold.

Furthermore, I’m long on BTC. I don’t sell any of it. When BTC hits $100K, which I think it will in the next 2-3 years, that earning you’re looking at on the profit calculators — you could have tripled those numbers in hindsight. Hard to time the market, but BTC has already proven its here to stay in the short to mid-term timeline at minimum.
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
31,381
Multiple things here. The crypto question is now a federal question. Not just state.
So don’t lie to the IRS. I mine and I report it all.

If you had five current generation graphics cards mining since January 1, you would have made about $6K to this point. How do I know? Becuse that’s what I did. Your electricity would have been about $3 a day. $90 a month x five months = $450 on electricity for $6k in crypto. You could have used the cards for subsidized heating cost until this early summer timeframe. Even now it’s still a profitable to mine against electricity, by ~ 8 fold.

Furthermore, I’m long on BTC. I don’t sell any of it. When BTC hits $100K, which I think it will in the next 2-3 years, that earning you’re looking at on the profit calculators — you could have tripled those numbers in hindsight. Hard to time the market, but BTC has already proven its here to stay in the short to mid-term timeline at minimum.
And I'd have had an office I couldn't spend more than 5 minutes in. When you have 4 HEDT procs and a 3950X (which is ~almost~ an HEDT box), plus those 5 GPUs all cranking at once... my office (which is overly insulated) would have been 90 degrees even in winter - unless I opened the windows in december. It already happens when I'm rendering/working on my Threadripper. It's awesome in the winter, but summer... eww. I keep most boxes off for that reason during the summer, and even in winter it would be too much :p. That's why I say it's not comfortable.

Running my systems currently costs me about $120 a month without mining - none of these are small boxes (the 10700K+3090 is probably the lowest power draw, actually - my main workstation pulls almost 280w at IDLE, and 600W gaming - no idea what it would pull mining :p).
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
501
I was nodding along with you, but then I got to thinking: we're talking about the sort of people that get all frothy about $8 a day ROI for maybe just next week, or maybe the next few months, who knows. One thing is certain though they aren't going to just throw out something with some conceivable value. In fact the real whales in this whole racket are probably even more likely to at least unload them at wholesale in the end. Why leave cash on the table?

The thing about the typical crypto space is that items tend to trend out of profitability over time as they're replaced by newer items. Once that new item launches you want it as soon as possible because the difficulty will increase as that technology proliferates. Large operations immediately push into purchasing upgrades as regardless of your plan to sell / hold, the greatest profit is generating as much as you can, as quickly as possible, and more powerful equipment achieves that goal. That then means that whatever is left over needs to go somewhere. If the items have value like they do now, most of the time it gets resold to a middle man who will move the items to another person or split, clean, refurbish, and offload them to end users. We've been seeing that with mass amounts of 4GB VRAM GPU getting sold on ebay at ever decreasing values.

If that value isn't there, the items simply get scrapped as I stated before. Granted the manufacturing volume are completely different, but as an example try to find where you can purchase a working Nvidia P104-101, it's the mining card version of a GTX 1080. They got completely offloaded when profitability tanked and the 20 series released. If you're a business you don't want all this stuff sitting around. You have to keep track, store, move, pay someone to deal with it, and it becomes an asset that's depreciating every day, and becomes a liability. You move on it quickly, take that money, and roll it over to something else, limiting your exposure to variables.
 
Top