GPU prices — is the worst behind us ?

Steam hardware surveys indicate that it's not as tempting for mid-tier buyers as Nvidia would like. 3 of the top 5 desktop cards are x60s and the top mobile is also a x60 based GPU. So 4 of the top 6 are x60 and the top card overall is a GTX 1650. That should tell you all you need to know about where the "middle tier" is. If you add in the 3060Ti, you're looking at 5 of the top 7 and roughly 30% of Steam's overall GPU share.
Most people just want to play games. They don't care for Time Spy scores, epeen contests, or max performance. These people aren't buying mid-tier. They are buying good enough for them. That's the biggest part of the market. Everyone arguing over benchmarks and such are those with the means to buy more than just enough. However, many of those folks buy the brand that seems to be the leader in halo cards since they hear all about that. Mindshare is real and AMD sucks hind tit. There's a reason why NV strives to be the halo leader.
 
Well now they are. We have 70ti, 80, 80ti, 90, 90ti and possibly Titan. A 70 is smack in the middle in terms of performance. It used to be a higher end card, but now it is more like a GTX 460. But with a bigger price tag of course.
Good point since they've added so many models now, but its performance is still very strong.
 
*60 is mid-tier. *70 is enthusiast, but the price/performance ratio occasionally makes it a tempting pick for mid-tier buyers.
Nvidia has forever had a gaming performance line-up that consisted of the X60, X70, and X80 class cards. You can micro name them as you please, but that has traditionally been their stack of GAMING GPU's.
 
We used to have X70 and x80 only. That was literally right next to top end ;). What are you on about?
I don't understand. What is literally next to the top end in that context? I am guessing you are being a joker and referancing a distant GPU lineup that only had two performance options so no middle to be had? IDK you seem to be streching logic to make a weak joke if that was your angle?
 
GPU price drops — the best is yet to come by MLID

Claims stocks of GPUs piling up in warehouses & prices set to weaken further.

current (cheapest) AMD GPU prices

7900 XTX — $1000
7900 XT — $800

6800 (non-XT) — $450
6750 XT — $380
6650 XT — $280 (This is up from $265 some time ago)

 
GPU price drops — the best is yet to come by MLID

Claims stocks of GPUs piling up in warehouses & prices set to weaken further.

current (cheapest) AMD GPU prices

7900 XTX — $1000
7900 XT — $800

6800 (non-XT) — $450
6750 XT — $380
6650 XT — $280 (This is up from $265 some time ago)



Good just in time for me :)
 
GPU price drops — the best is yet to come by MLID

Claims stocks of GPUs piling up in warehouses & prices set to weaken further.

current (cheapest) AMD GPU prices

7900 XTX — $1000
7900 XT — $800

6800 (non-XT) — $450
6750 XT — $380
6650 XT — $280 (This is up from $265 some time ago)



Careful, all the MLID haters are going to start howling that Youtubers suck and everything he says is FUD.

I wouldn't be surprised if retailer warehouses are overstuffed with inventory they can't sell, in my region there is absolutely no shortage of any 40X0 gpus.....all brands and models are available from every retailer, and prices for grossly inflated AIB models have been steadily declining for months towards RRP. They are constantly on sale, but never sell out. From anecdotal observations, I believe the backlash against Nvidia's pricing discussed in the video is probably real. It is not uncommon on local bargain hunting forums for people to respond to deals on 40X0 gpus along the lines of "Keep HODLing and fuck Ngreedia, let me know when it drops to X dollars".
 
Careful, all the MLID haters are going to start howling that Youtubers suck and everything he says is FUD.

I wouldn't be surprised if retailer warehouses are overstuffed with inventory they can't sell, in my region there is absolutely no shortage of any 40X0 gpus.....all brands and models are available from every retailer, and prices for grossly inflated AIB models have been steadily declining for months towards RRP. They are constantly on sale, but never sell out. From anecdotal observations, I believe the backlash against Nvidia's pricing discussed in the video is probably real. It is not uncommon on local bargain hunting forums for people to respond to deals on 40X0 gpus along the lines of "Keep HODLing and fuck Ngreedia, let me know when it drops to X dollars".
Yea I can walk into my local MC and pretty much get any GPU from Nvidia and AMD.
 
Careful, all the MLID haters are going to start howling that Youtubers suck and everything he says is FUD.

I wouldn't be surprised if retailer warehouses are overstuffed with inventory they can't sell, in my region there is absolutely no shortage of any 40X0 gpus.....all brands and models are available from every retailer, and prices for grossly inflated AIB models have been steadily declining for months towards RRP. They are constantly on sale, but never sell out. From anecdotal observations, I believe the backlash against Nvidia's pricing discussed in the video is probably real. It is not uncommon on local bargain hunting forums for people to respond to deals on 40X0 gpus along the lines of "Keep HODLing and fuck Ngreedia, let me know when it drops to X dollars".

My 2023 system will be using my existing 3080 because of the price fuckery. I had to spend my nominal planned budget for a 40xx card in addition to my planned budget for a 30xx card to get my 3080. As a result my willingness to pay for a 4080 tops out around $200 maybe $300. The planned money is gone, so unless I get a deal good enough to make me not care about sitting out the 50xx generation it's not happening. Not because I couldn't afford it if I wanted to, but because Jenson's spatulas, etc can die in a grease fire before I endorse his price gouging.
 
Nvidia has lost me, forever, as a customer due to Jensen's attempt to manipulate media and other heavy-handed autocratic impulses. I still have a choice, so I choose NOT-nvidia.

AMD? Yeah, check my sig. Some GPUs are beyond their life expectancy. I'll keep waiting. The prices will drop...

TL;DR: I'm not playing their reindeer games.
 
My 2023 system will be using my existing 3080 because of the price fuckery. I had to spend my nominal planned budget for a 40xx card in addition to my planned budget for a 30xx card to get my 3080. As a result my willingness to pay for a 4080 tops out around $200 maybe $300. The planned money is gone, so unless I get a deal good enough to make me not care about sitting out the 50xx generation it's not happening. Not because I couldn't afford it if I wanted to, but because Jenson's spatulas, etc can die in a grease fire before I endorse his price gouging.
I was planning a new build and hoping to hold out with my 2070 Super longer, but for various reasons I think it might be the source of recent instability with my current machine. As much as I hate the idea of buying an old gen GPU at a new-gen price, currently leaning towards a 6800 XT. I am still on 1080p and plan to stay there for the foreseeable future. The 7900 XT/XTX performance increase on 1080p is quite mild compared the price increase. Nvidia not even worth mentioning unless you have money to burn and going for a 4090.
 
My 2023 system will be using my existing 3080 because of the price fuckery. I had to spend my nominal planned budget for a 40xx card in addition to my planned budget for a 30xx card to get my 3080. As a result my willingness to pay for a 4080 tops out around $200 maybe $300. The planned money is gone, so unless I get a deal good enough to make me not care about sitting out the 50xx generation it's not happening. Not because I couldn't afford it if I wanted to, but because Jenson's spatulas, etc can die in a grease fire before I endorse his price gouging.

Feel the same way, still slumming it with a 1080 Ti which is more than adequate for most pre-RTX games in my backlog of shame (running at 3440x1440). I can afford a 4090, but I refuse to condone this type of greed. I wish AMD would pull their fucking thumbs out and start being competitive, because they could easily undercut Nvidia and steal huge amounts of market share.
 
Nvidia has lost me, forever, as a customer due to Jensen's attempt to manipulate media and other heavy-handed autocratic impulses. I still have a choice, so I choose NOT-nvidia.

AMD? Yeah, check my sig. Some GPUs are beyond their life expectancy. I'll keep waiting. The prices will drop...

TL;DR: I'm not playing their reindeer games.
Here’s some more fuckery (correct me if I’m wrong): 4xxx series would be great for beginners to get into AI/ML. And like the prior gen 3090, they could’ve made memory pooling a feature only available on higher end cards. Now that they’re moving away from nvlink and instead using pcie 5.0 as a more affordable solution to GPU pooling on lower end hardware (ie. Not a $1M AI server) it should’ve been simple to support this for all 4xxx GPUs, or at least the 4090 if they wanted to limit it artificially to only the higher margin cards. But strangely, the 4xxx series doesn’t support pcie 5.0, only 4.0.
 
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Here’s some more fuckery (correct me if I’m wrong): 4xxx series would be great for beginners to get into AI/ML. And like the prior gen 3090, they could’ve made memory pooling a feature only available on higher end cards. Now that they’re moving away from nvlink and instead using pcie 5.0 as a more affordable solution to GPU pooling on lower end hardware (ie. Not a $1M AI server) it should’ve been simple to support this for all 4xxx GPUs, or at least the 4090 if they wanted to limit it artificially to only the higher margin cards. But strangely, the 4xxx series doesn’t support pcie 5.0, only 4.0.
If the first generation of m.2 PCIe5 SSDs are any indication, they probably dropped PCIe5 support because they blew the cards thermal/power budget on the factory overclock.
 
Here’s some more fuckery (correct me if I’m wrong): 4xxx series would be great for beginners to get into AI/ML. And like the prior gen 3090, they could’ve made memory pooling a feature only available on higher end cards. Now that they’re moving away from nvlink and instead using pcie 5.0 as a more affordable solution to GPU pooling on lower end hardware (ie. Not a $1M AI server) it should’ve been simple to support this for all 4xxx GPUs, or at least the 4090 if they wanted to limit it artificially to only the higher margin cards. But strangely, the 4xxx series doesn’t support pcie 5.0, only 4.0.

supporting PCIe 5.0 would of cut into their 400% margins, lol. /s

truth is the card designs were laid out well before the pcie 5.0 standard was finalized and it's not something you can just change on a whim which is why hopper was announced in 2022 to use pcie 5.0 along with 4th gen NV-Link.
 
We used to have X70 and x80 only. That was literally right next to top end ;). What are you on about?
Used to be is the operative word here. Like Fermi was the last time this was true X70 was simply a cut down of X80 which was the flagship card/top end silicon for that gen. Hasn't been like that since then.
 
These days GPU makers all involved different kinds tech making them utilise lots of chips unlike back then priority was for GPUs.
 

Most PC hardware pricing is back to normal so why not GPUs?​


https://www.pcgamer.com/most-pc-hardware-pricing-is-back-to-normal-so-why-not-gpus/

gaming GPUs look like a bit of a sideshow next to the money Nvidia seems set to make from selling GPUs for AI training. So, Nvidia will still sell you a gaming graphics card. But it's a lot less worried about whether you think it's good value than back when pretty much all its revenue came from gamers.

AMD isn't nearly as big as Nvidia in the AI industry. But it is seemingly being dragged along all the same. As the smaller player, it makes far fewer GPUs than Nvidia. It could decide to undercut Nvidia, but history suggests it probably wouldn't sell that many more cards, such is Nvidia's dominance of PC graphics mindshare. So why bother?
 

Most PC hardware pricing is back to normal so why not GPUs?​


https://www.pcgamer.com/most-pc-hardware-pricing-is-back-to-normal-so-why-not-gpus/

gaming GPUs look like a bit of a sideshow next to the money Nvidia seems set to make from selling GPUs for AI training. So, Nvidia will still sell you a gaming graphics card. But it's a lot less worried about whether you think it's good value than back when pretty much all its revenue came from gamers.

AMD isn't nearly as big as Nvidia in the AI industry. But it is seemingly being dragged along all the same. As the smaller player, it makes far fewer GPUs than Nvidia. It could decide to undercut Nvidia, but history suggests it probably wouldn't sell that many more cards, such is Nvidia's dominance of PC graphics mindshare. So why bother?
Contrary to how some people think, people are not suddenly going to buy AMD just because they undercut Nvidia on price. Drivergate (AMD driver issues that have long been addressed) is still alive and well plus Nvidia is seen as the premium GPU. You can get 6900XT cards for $600, which is pretty good for the performance compared to Nvidia options.
 
Contrary to how some people think, people are not suddenly going to buy AMD just because they undercut Nvidia on price. Drivergate (AMD driver issues that have long been addressed) is still alive and well plus Nvidia is seen as the premium GPU. You can get 6900XT cards for $600, which is pretty good for the performance compared to Nvidia options.
You can get some 6950xt for $650 now
 
Contrary to how some people think, people are not suddenly going to buy AMD just because they undercut Nvidia on price. Drivergate (AMD driver issues that have long been addressed) is still alive and well plus Nvidia is seen as the premium GPU. You can get 6900XT cards for $600, which is pretty good for the performance compared to Nvidia options.

Yet most people will still prefer Nvidia. They have dominated for so long
 
Something something blood from a stone, AMD and Nvidia are pricing things to fix the massive market oversupply which recent reports put as over 100%, meaning that they have more cards sitting unsold in either a new or used capacity than they would expect to sell in a given year. This is a huge problem for everybody, AMD, Nvidia, and the whole supply chain they deal with, the sudden surge in production strained the chain for every component from the GPU, and the VRAM, down to the capacitors and regulators on the cards themselves. Pricing on all the components ballooned as demand outpaced supply, so those cards made during that time cost vastly more than normal to make but the markups on the cards were so large nobody cared. Now the rush is over, used cards flood the market, and the unsold inventory in warehouses around the world was brought there at a 30-50% premium because of the component cost increases. Warehouses and importers only get a 3-5% margin on those cards, that's not anybody being greedy that is standard as they only function as a middleman, but tack on the fact they paid a premium and for many had to pay additional tariffs on top of those and now they are stuck holding a product with nobody to sell it to and they are begging for relief. The current pricing is that relief while they find avenues to move their stock, Nvidia and AMD are both content selling to more profitable markets, so they can just shift their production or tone it down and charge more to maintain their revenue streams, but both their investors know that the existing pricing is not sustainable as it is counter to market growth which is a metric they actively monitor.
The industry as a whole knows the price of things can't remain as they currently are but if they were to lower things down they would be spitting in the face of the supply chain which even they can't afford to do.
 
Something something blood from a stone, AMD and Nvidia are pricing things to fix the massive market oversupply which recent reports put as over 100%, meaning that they have more cards sitting unsold in either a new or used capacity than they would expect to sell in a given year. This is a huge problem for everybody, AMD, Nvidia, and the whole supply chain they deal with, the sudden surge in production strained the chain for every component from the GPU, and the VRAM, down to the capacitors and regulators on the cards themselves. Pricing on all the components ballooned as demand outpaced supply, so those cards made during that time cost vastly more than normal to make but the markups on the cards were so large nobody cared. Now the rush is over, used cards flood the market, and the unsold inventory in warehouses around the world was brought there at a 30-50% premium because of the component cost increases. Warehouses and importers only get a 3-5% margin on those cards, that's not anybody being greedy that is standard as they only function as a middleman, but tack on the fact they paid a premium and for many had to pay additional tariffs on top of those and now they are stuck holding a product with nobody to sell it to and they are begging for relief. The current pricing is that relief while they find avenues to move their stock, Nvidia and AMD are both content selling to more profitable markets, so they can just shift their production or tone it down and charge more to maintain their revenue streams, but both their investors know that the existing pricing is not sustainable as it is counter to market growth which is a metric they actively monitor.
The industry as a whole knows the price of things can't remain as they currently are but if they were to lower things down they would be spitting in the face of the supply chain which even they can't afford to do.

There isn't enough competition with only NVIDIA and AMD. NVIDIA sets the price at whatever they want because they're the best. AMD doesn't even try, they just set their prices the same or just slightly lower than NVIDIA. But they're so behind in features like ray tracing and AI that their slightly lower prices don't make up for it. It's almost as bad as just having two companies do price fixing.

If Intel catches up in performance maybe they'll actually create some pricing wars and overall GPU prices will come down. They've at least try competing on price with the GPUs they have now.
 
Something something blood from a stone, AMD and Nvidia are pricing things to fix the massive market oversupply which recent reports put as over 100%, meaning that they have more cards sitting unsold in either a new or used capacity than they would expect to sell in a given year. This is a huge problem for everybody, AMD, Nvidia, and the whole supply chain they deal with, the sudden surge in production strained the chain for every component from the GPU, and the VRAM, down to the capacitors and regulators on the cards themselves. Pricing on all the components ballooned as demand outpaced supply, so those cards made during that time cost vastly more than normal to make but the markups on the cards were so large nobody cared. Now the rush is over, used cards flood the market, and the unsold inventory in warehouses around the world was brought there at a 30-50% premium because of the component cost increases. Warehouses and importers only get a 3-5% margin on those cards, that's not anybody being greedy that is standard as they only function as a middleman, but tack on the fact they paid a premium and for many had to pay additional tariffs on top of those and now they are stuck holding a product with nobody to sell it to and they are begging for relief. The current pricing is that relief while they find avenues to move their stock, Nvidia and AMD are both content selling to more profitable markets, so they can just shift their production or tone it down and charge more to maintain their revenue streams, but both their investors know that the existing pricing is not sustainable as it is counter to market growth which is a metric they actively monitor.
The industry as a whole knows the price of things can't remain as they currently are but if they were to lower things down they would be spitting in the face of the supply chain which even they can't afford to do.
What's oversupply? Having stores with stock isn't oversupply. Are we close to the supply we had before the crypto fest? Back then things were a lot cheaper (even accounting for inflation).

My point is the industry was fine back then but now we're supposed to accept a new normal where cards on the store shelves is oversupply and it's super scary and we can't have that.
 
What's oversupply? Having stores with stock isn't oversupply. Are we close to the supply we had before the crypto fest? Back then things were a lot cheaper (even accounting for inflation).

My point is the industry was fine back then but now we're supposed to accept a new normal where cards on the store shelves is oversupply and it's super scary and we can't have that.
Oversupply is fun, say AMD expects to sell 65 million GPUs of various types in 2023 so they plan to manufacture 66 million so they have their demand met with a comfortable bit of error but not much left on hand they have to write down.
Now, what happens when they spend 2 years expecting to sell 65 million but instead sell 110 million, you end up with 220 million GPU where before you expected only 130. Now what happened the miners who bought those extra 90 million cards either don't take delivery of them leaving the importers holding the bag or flipped them to refurbishers who are selling them as "new". So now AMD is sitting there expecting to sell 65 million GPU's but the people they sell them to are looking at their 90 million GPUs in inventory saying we have no room for your new ones till these are gone. That is oversupply and it is currently sitting at an unprecedented rate, never before has there been this much stock sitting around in an unsellable state with nobody in a position to afford the write-off. Having 2-3 million of various flavors of last year's model is healthy, having more of last year's product in inventory than you would even expect to sell as new is a serious problem with no solution in sight because it requires somebody to take a serious bath to the tune of billions and nobody is volunteering for that job.
I think a lot really fail to understand the depths of just how badly the massive spike in electronic demand over those 2 years really screwed the industry and damage the crypto miners have left behind in their wake.

Now before anybody gets mad at me calling out AMD, I used them as an example because the numbers are smaller Nvidia is in the same boat but add a 0 to the end of those numbers because they outsell AMD 10-1, but the result is the same.

Governments failed to act or contain the pump and dump model that cryptocurrencies encourage and are probably going to have to bail the industry out as a result. Both AMD and Nvidia’s current consumer pricing models are not sustainable and they know it.
 
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AI is bleeding GPUs dry
?

https://www.newegg.com/d/Best-Sellers/GPUs-Video-Graphics-Cards/s/ID-48

Seem available and near MSRP (except the 7900xt that seem constantly significantly below), the fact that this is not true has well of all the non 4090 models you mean ?

Amazon-Facebook-Google AI run on homemade/diverse not just GPU vendor system quite a bit, Xeon AI accelerator, AMD/xilinx, Google have their own ASIC.

And GPU must be less vast shanky DIU with regular all you can get from bestbuy like crypto was affair and not close to the popularity worldwide among regular people, AI cloud pricing from big vendor seem to be quite aggressively good, for way less money than a single GPU you can do a lot of training.

Simple text on azure is $0.0004 per 1000 token, code-davinci $0.1 per 1,000 token, Dall-e $2 per 100 images, training about $25 per hours, I could see it being quite the norm to go with cloud service than in house system.
 
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AMD GPU division retains profitability in first quarter despite disounted RDNA 2 prices.

Does that mean there is scope for RDNA 3 launch prices to be as low as current RDNA 2 🤔

For ex:
16GB RX 7800 XT - $600-$650
16GB RX 7800 - $500-$550
12GB RX 7700 XT - $400-$450

16GB RX 7600 XT - $350-$380
8GB RX 7600 - $280-$300
6GB RX 7500 XT - $200-$220

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...flow&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com

AMD's Gaming Business unit's revenue in the first quarter reached $1.757 billion, down 6% year-over-year, which looks like a strong result given the ongoing turmoil. System-on-chips for Microsoft's and Sony's game consoles accounted for the lion's share of AMD's gaming business and increased YoY. Meanwhile, sales of discrete Radeon graphics processors dropped year-over-year. Still, they grew quarter-over-quarter as the company ramped up shipments of its Radeon RX 7900-series graphics offerings and offered its previous generation Radeon RX 6000-series products at competitive prices.

Despite challenges, the division remained profitable and posted a net income of $314 million (down 12% YoY).
 
I miss the days of going to my local PC shop and big online web site's and having a front page FULL of GPU's.
I haven't seen anything on a BIG site like that even when they have a pathetic over priced GPU promo. Lots of great PC deals except if you are in the GFX market. Why?
Until marketers actually have products and can promote them at competitive prices the market will remain obviously by a quick glance, FUCKED!
 
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AMD GPU division retains profitability in first quarter despite disounted RDNA 2 prices.

Does that mean there is scope for RDNA 3 launch prices to be as low as current RDNA 2 🤔

For ex:
16GB RX 7800 XT - $600-$650
16GB RX 7800 - $500-$550
12GB RX 7700 XT - $400-$450

16GB RX 7600 XT - $350-$380

8GB RX 7600 - $280-$300
6GB RX 7500 XT - $200-$220
That 7700xt better be priced at $419 with 16gb vram, and 7600xt for $300 at 12gb vram.
The 7600 max at $249 while 7500xt at $179 max with 8gb vram.
 
Agreed, if they were smart they would go for marketshare in discrete gfx space now that there is plenty of production capacity.

Prices above would just about do it, but I'd simplify further with $399, $299, $199 and $149 respectively, same specs. They will remain profitable, but should push for more market recognition as due to not prioritizing GPU production during the chip shortage period they are almost wiped out in terms of market penetration.

Their tech is coming close to irrelevance such as FSR, due to no market presence, and right now it "lives" due to GTX products, but another cycle and they are basically out. It is much harder to climb out of a single digit market share hole than 10-20%.
 
AMD GPU division retains profitability in first quarter despite disounted RDNA 2 prices.

Does that mean there is scope for RDNA 3 launch prices to be as low as current RDNA 2 🤔

For ex:
16GB RX 7800 XT - $600-$650
16GB RX 7800 - $500-$550
12GB RX 7700 XT - $400-$450

16GB RX 7600 XT - $350-$380
8GB RX 7600 - $280-$300
6GB RX 7500 XT - $200-$220

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...flow&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com

AMD's Gaming Business unit's revenue in the first quarter reached $1.757 billion, down 6% year-over-year, which looks like a strong result given the ongoing turmoil. System-on-chips for Microsoft's and Sony's game consoles accounted for the lion's share of AMD's gaming business and increased YoY. Meanwhile, sales of discrete Radeon graphics processors dropped year-over-year. Still, they grew quarter-over-quarter as the company ramped up shipments of its Radeon RX 7900-series graphics offerings and offered its previous generation Radeon RX 6000-series products at competitive prices.

Despite challenges, the division remained profitable and posted a net income of $314 million (down 12% YoY).
Yes and no, the 6000 series stuff on sale now would have already been paid for. AMD does not get paid when the card sells, AMD gets paid when the AIB takes delivery on the silicon kits.
AMD’s primary Gaming Business numbers come from console sales not GPU sales and those are up thanks to increased supply. If anything this shows that the 7000 series GPUs aren’t selling well or have a much smaller margin than they let on.
But it does show the market is shit and they won’t have much of a choice but to price competitively because people are broke and the new content isn’t exactly compelling for many.
 
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