GPU Prices dropping?

AgentNein

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When the R9 380 is dying and I thought about buying a $160 GTX 1650 Super.
1650 Super prices 2021-02.PNG
 

Agent_N

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Intel won't be competing with AMD or Nivida for at least a decade IF at all.
They may not be able to compete but they may be able to compete somewhat in low to mid range and ease the shortage in the market right now with more product! If they make them mining monsters then they can make some money and fund R&D for future chips!
 

x509

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They may not be able to compete but they may be able to compete somewhat in low to mid range and ease the shortage in the market right now with more product! If they make them mining monsters then they can make some money and fund R&D for future chips!

Considering that Intel can't compete in CPUs with 7 mm parts, how can they produce 7 mm GPU parts? And if all they can produce is 10 mm GPU parts, how much can they compete against AMD and Nvidia?
 

Agent_N

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Considering that Intel can't compete in CPUs with 7 mm parts, how can they produce 7 mm GPU parts? And if all they can produce is 10 mm GPU parts, how much can they compete against AMD and Nvidia?
If the cards that they produce are capable of 1080p gaming as reasonable framerates then I don't see why they cannot compete. Most people are not buying top end cards, but bang for you buck mid-range or lower mid-range cards. I don't think Intel's goal is to beat AMD and nvidia becuase they already sell more GPUs than both of them combined anyway, but none of us want to play games in integrated graphics. If they can get 1050 to 1660 level of performance, they will probably sell quite a few cards.
 

IndyColtsFan

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Intel won't be competing with AMD or Nivida for at least a decade IF at all.

I agree, but if Intel released something tomorrow that was within 15%, had reasonable stock, and had reasonable prices, they’d have a hit on their hands and take market share.
 

Saabjock

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ebay last night had a 3080 for $2,000 and a lot are $1,500+
Anybody stupid enough to subscribe to that nonsense deserves it.
I can certainly understand wanting to play games but spending $2000 for a product with a listed MSRP of $699 is just plain asinine.
They're perpetuating a trend that'll ultimately hurt us all.
Videocard developers now know how much they'll be able to sell these for and can now artificially create shortages to keep prices inflated.
 
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Saabjock

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Intel won't be competing with AMD or Nivida for at least a decade IF at all.
Don't need to.
People forget how 'deep' Intel's pockets are.
They really don't have to compete with anybody in the GPU space.
All they need to do is release a GPU with maybe 10-15% less performance than either company and sell it around the $350 price point.
That'll put a dent into both company's sale ...big time.
While most folk here are PC enthusiast, that number represents a very small sector of the overall GPU buyers club.
As to the question of node...Nvidia's 2080Ti with it's blazing fast performance is built on what? ...12nm FFN.
Intel's 10 nm process is more than capable of giving us good GPUs...especially if they don't hamstring themselves with a power requirement.
 
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Sir Beregond

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Intel won't be competing with AMD or Nivida for at least a decade IF at all.
Sure they can. You're only thinking enthusiast top-end, yet majority of GPU buyers are mid-range or lower (think 60 class Nvidia cards and equivalent). If they can at least meet that performance level then they will be fine.
 
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noko

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Don't need to.
People forget how 'deep' Intel's pockets are.
They really don't have to compete with anybody in the GPU space.
All they need to do is release a GPU with maybe 10-15% less performance than either company and sell it around the $350 price point.
That'll put a dent into both company's sale ...big time.
While most folk here are PC enthusiast, that number represents a very small sector of the overall GPU buyers club.
As to the question of node...Nvidia's 2080Ti with it's blazing fast performance is built on what? ...12nm FFN.
Intel's 10 nm process is more than capable of giving us good GPUs...especially if they don't hamstring themselves with a power requirement.
Definitely a big hole <$400 real cost. Unfortunately by the time Intel comes to the party it maybe too late.
 

Mystique

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All the fan boiz saying AMD + Nvidia can't be challenged by Intel, let me raise you this. Neither company fab's their own process; so Intel can just as easily buy TSMC chips. Shame on all 3 of them for that, but that's why none of them deserve glowy-eyes.
 

euskalzabe

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Gpu prices are not at all dropping. When intel releases gpus, prices might start to trend downwards. Competition.
 
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Saabjock

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Definitely a big hole <$400 real cost. Unfortunately by the time Intel comes to the party it maybe too late.
Maybe...maybe not.
Intel has the resources to accelerate a lot more than you'd think.
Clearly, the cards are already in testing.
With their vast resources and the knowledge there is a massive demand ($$$$) I wouldn't put anything to bed just yet.
 

Spartacus09

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Maybe...maybe not.
Intel has the resources to accelerate a lot more than you'd think.
Clearly, the cards are already in testing.
With their vast resources and the knowledge there is a massive demand ($$$$) I wouldn't put anything to bed just yet.
The biggest question is are the chips made here? If they are they can avoid that 25% price hike.
Thats the only way I think they're going to be competitive, on margins they'll be the new amd, not the fastest available but fast enough and dirt cheap.
 
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LukeTbk

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All the fan boiz saying AMD + Nvidia can't be challenged by Intel, let me raise you this. Neither company fab's their own process; so Intel can just as easily buy TSMC chips. Shame on all 3 of them for that, but that's why none of them deserve glowy-eyes.
That seem to be reducing the complexity behind designing the chips (hardware and software), there is a reason TSMC do not make GPUs or anyone else for that market despite the giant market and margin outside Nvidia-AMD, it must be extremely hard to do and not be always a step behind those 2. There is such a vast knowledge (if not patent) behind a modern GPU that trying to make one that will compete with the next iteration of AMD-Nvidia design must be nearly impossible.
 

Saabjock

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That seem to be reducing the complexity behind designing the chips (hardware and software), there is a reason TSMC do not make GPUs or anyone else for that market despite the giant market and margin outside Nvidia-AMD, it must be extremely hard to do and not be always a step behind those 2. There is such a vast knowledge (if not patent) behind a modern GPU that trying to make one that will compete with the next iteration of AMD-Nvidia design must be nearly impossible.
As was previously stated...Intel has extremely deep pockets.
They also have FAB and some of the staff previously at AMD and Nvidia.
If you think they can't get this done for the mainstream GPU market in short order, you are kidding yourself.
Obviously they'll have to thread lightly to avoid any technology breaches covered by IPR from those past employees.
 

Mystique

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On Newegg the Gigabyte 3090 waterforce jumped up 400$ overnight. Just deleted my payment information and uninstalled the app. Waiting for the next gen. F them. Only 6 months away from next launch anyways, what's the point in paying through the nose?

Paying 1999$ is already highway robbery, now they want 2300$. Hell, even its not even worth 1500$

I may try for the 3080Ti when that comes out, if it's around ~1.2k. Not gonna buy a warm 320W+ card without an AIO though. Really glad my 1080Ti still does reasonably well with my 38" near 4k res. Only really missing RTX here.

This really just serves as a wake-up-call that I should invest that money for my next property instead of a downpayment on a car-priced GPU that runs >320W and won't last 3-4 years before replacement for one reason or another. Maybe the 4XXX series will scale back the stupid power usage anyways and the wait will be good.
 
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Archaea

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I think there might be a longer delay for Nvidia 4xxx series than traditional one year. The cards are now six months old and still no availability from either vendor. Every card made is gobbled up. Not much incentive for AMD or Nvidia to retool the fabs when the current cards are selling gobstoppers. Nvidia CMP cards should further delay the 4xxx series cards. I bet we are closer to a year and a half, or two year cycle this time. Covid, fab shortages, RAM shortages, crypto demand, It’s a mess.
 
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euskalzabe

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not the fastest available but fast enough and dirt cheap.
That is all the vast majority of the market wants and needs. I want to see a new $200 hero card - good enough performance, a decent upgrade from the $200 cards of 2016, and an affordable price. Most gamers game at 1080p, so it always blows my mind that Nvidia puts so much emphasis on the minority of 4K/QHD gamers. 1080p gamers make them the most money, by far, and are their largest userbase.

This guy explains it quite well:

While I wait for my 3060 EVGA queue, I'm looking forward to an eventual 3050. Let's see what that offers and at what price - it could become the new value king the 1060 was.
 

Archaea

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That is all the vast majority of the market wants and needs. I want to see a new $200 hero card - good enough performance, a decent upgrade from the $200 cards of 2016, and an affordable price. Most gamers game at 1080p, so it always blows my mind that Nvidia puts so much emphasis on the minority of 4K/QHD gamers. 1080p gamers make them the most money, by far, and are their largest userbase.

This guy explains it quite well:

While I wait for my 3060 EVGA queue, I'm looking forward to an eventual 3050. Let's see what that offers and at what price - it could become the new value king the 1060 was.
One return takes the profit margin out of several $200 cards
 

euskalzabe

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One return takes the profit margin out of several $200 cards
At the volume these sell, let's not pretend that the 3080/3090 are Nvidia's $ baseline savior. They make a lot of money, but they're pretty much non existent in the overall market. Quick GPU install base recap, note how many are the sub-$300 cards (~%42 of all cards on Steam):

1615388785331.png
 

cjcox

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I hear that the latest cards will come with NFT (why not?)
 

Mystique

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I could easily see them launching the 4XXX with anti-crypto mining built in around September '21. (Yeah, I know the firmware got hacked, but that's not going to be the end of this saga, so zzzz ) Nvidia won't stop innovating, simply because AMD won't. TSMC's chip shortage shouldn't be a factor in whether NVIDIA should go on a cruise and stop working; their shareholders are now expecting sky-high results, so they have to keep going; as is the way of things being a public company.

+Hopefully Intel gets their foot in the door, because this industry badly needs competition. The prices are unjustifiably insane, when you factor in that TSMC is doing most of the work anyhow. I know Intel gets a lot of hate on here, but look back just a few years and AMD was nowhere. There's definitely a case to be made that Intel knows what they're doing and they could compete if they just get their ducks in a row. TSMC-here-TSMC-there-TSMC-everywhere; anyone can outsource.

This gen uses far too much power, and the cards are way too behemoth sized to be left 'as is'; the TDW needs to come down; and these 'brackets' to hold your GPU need to stop being needed. That being said, good grief. This situation is beyond ridiculous, and F mining-based-crypto; which occupies >2 countries in electricity waste and fossil fuel consumption and has no inherent worth or value. At least with Folding@Home you could potentially cure cancer with this farm of waste. Can't wait for Eth2.0 to kill mining.
 
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Sir Beregond

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Gpu prices are not at all dropping. When intel releases gpus, prices might start to trend downwards. Competition.
In a normal climate maybe. In our current climate it will all depend on supply normalizing to demand. None of them need to lower prices at all right now.
 

euskalzabe

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In a normal climate maybe. In our current climate it will all depend on supply normalizing to demand. None of them need to lower prices at all right now.
Roght, that’s why I said might 😉
Then again, Intel’s capacity is besides TSMC and others, since they have their own favs, so it could contribute to the quantity of gpus produced overall... but I feel like I’ve read somewhere they plan on using an external fab too, so no luck there if that’s accurate.
 

pillagenburn

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just wait until everyone has an extra $1400 in their pockets. The prices are going to go into the stratosphere.

Edit: Someone has to pay for all that stimulus.
 

Evil Timmy

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Pretty bonkers to see my 1080 (non-Ti, just factory OC) going for around the price I paid for it on FS/FT four years ago. No idea when my next PC upgrade will be, I was already skipping this generation because it wasn't quite to the point of steadily putting up 100+fps in 4k, which is enough to finally upgrade from 1440p. Now with chip supply so constrained it's affected automakers, who knows how far off the next "Ti" half-generation will be, and how much the prices will be jacked up now that dam's been breached.
 

Nebulous

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I'm praying, rubbing my rabbit's foot and even having live sacrifices with chickens/goats to get my hands on regular/normal priced new gpu for my new build. So far what's been happening is the farm is running out of chickens and goats and I need a new rabbits foot cause i rubbed the fur off the old one, and still no new affordable gpu in sight :mad:
 
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Dan

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I was lucky to grab a 3080 @ 830+ 3% poverty tax from a microcenter in NJ a few months ago. I was at a car show and told a guy I had one and he instantly offered me a 2080ti 1k cash and this cool corsair mouse. Never accepted a deal so fast in my life. Im hoping they come back down in price so i can get another one =[
 

JMCB

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I don't see them doing a 4XXX series until 2022 at the earliest. The demand is still there and they cannot keep up. If they release a 4XXX series too early, it's going to drive the prices of current stuff way down because the secondary market will rebound, which is also one of the reasons why they're making so much this series.
 

JMCB

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I was lucky to grab a 3080 @ 830+ 3% poverty tax from a microcenter in NJ a few months ago. I was at a car show and told a guy I had one and he instantly offered me a 2080ti 1k cash and this cool corsair mouse. Never accepted a deal so fast in my life. Im hoping they come back down in price so i can get another one =[

Now sell the 2080 Ti. They're going for around 1.1k to 1.2k on eBay and locally.
 

SnowBeast

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Let me get this straight. World wide chip shortage, Nvidia can't keep up with the most demand on its current 3000 series it has ever seen in GPU history. Normally releases a new Series 18-24 months later but some one you think they are going to release a 4000 series this year? After only 12 months? Keep it simple for you. AHH NO.

Steam surveys in my eyes are garbage. Did anyone see a Radeon 6000 series at all on that survey? Ahh again NO. Selling out like gangbusters, yet not on survey and 3000 series lightly represented even though Nvidia has sold more inventory on this Series than any others? YA again NO. Besides, a lot of gamers have migrated to other services, specially Epic.

My BS meter exploded, going to call it a night. Good night.
 

LukeTbk

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Steam surveys in my eyes are garbage. Did anyone see a Radeon 6000 series at all on that survey? Ahh again NO. Selling out like gangbusters, yet not on survey and 3000 series lightly represented even though Nvidia has sold more inventory on this Series than any others? YA again NO. Besides, a lot of gamers have migrated to other services, specially Epic.
For the 3000 they didi sell more than any others on launch according to the Steam survey, but unlike previous popular launch it was not sustained by a ramping up over time.
Has for the radeon 6000, there is a lot of sign that it was a very small volume going on (staying on shelf is not the issue here obviously).

has long has the gamers migrating on EPIC and never loggin on steam anymore have not in average significantly different hardware it should not be much of an issue.
 

JMCB

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Steam surveys in my eyes are garbage. Did anyone see a Radeon 6000 series at all on that survey? Ahh again NO. Selling out like gangbusters, yet not on survey and 3000 series lightly represented even though Nvidia has sold more inventory on this Series than any others? YA again NO. Besides, a lot of gamers have migrated to other services, specially Epic.

These cards not showing up on Steam surveys just shows that gamers are not the ones grabbing the cards, the miners are.
 

LukeTbk

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These cards not showing up on Steam surveys just shows that gamers are not the ones grabbing the cards, the miners are.
You need a good volume to show up in a steam surveys, they have around 120 million active account now I think, you need 0.15% to show up which is around 180,000 cards.

To have 180,000 steam account captured worldwide you need what to have say 300,000 gamers with those cards (depending on the China market and how popular steam is in china), this is significantly above the estimate for the different 6000 series models total sell (miners+gamers) we saw around, I am not sure they would show up if 100% of them were bought by gamers.
 

DPI

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These cards not showing up on Steam surveys just shows that gamers are not the ones grabbing the cards, the miners are.
Except just about every "gamer" with a workable GPU is running nicehash at the moment, even little kids.

The imaginary dividing line between "gamers" and "miners" doesn't really exist, except in online arguments among people living in the past.
 
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