Governor To Decide If Tesla Can Restart Sales In New Jersey

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Apparently the governor has forty five days to decide on the fate of Tesla in NJ. Any guesses on which way this will go and when?

The bill (A3216), which passed 30-2 with no debate, is now on Christie's desk. He has 45 days to act on it. "We must boost our economy with innovative industries that can help drive revenue and energy solutions while providing a cleaner environment for our residents.
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He's in a no-win situation politically. The deal lobby will go apeshit if he approves, yet he goes against the general Republican party line of "more government is bad government" mantra (though they are quite hypocritical about this...but that's another conversation).
 
State legislators blocking the sale of Tesla vehicles has about 99% to do with big oil lobbying and 1% everything else.
 
bigdogchris said:
State legislators blocking the sale of Tesla vehicles has about 99% to do with big oil lobbying and 1% everything else.
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Except the state legislators let it through without a fight. The law that stopped Tesla sales predated Tesla and was designed to protect car dealerships.
 
bigdogchris said:
State legislators blocking the sale of Tesla vehicles has about 99% to do with big oil lobbying and 1% everything else.
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I would say the automobile dealers unions across the country are a pretty high percentage. I'm sure they are working with the big oil guys but its a known fact that they pushed for legislation to force manufacturers to sell through third party show room dealers. It was a way for them to get rid of some of the little guys but also forces manufacturers to go through them. Most manufacturers don't mind this, which is why it was allowed to happen in the first place. If Tesla would have come out 50 years ago there wouldn't have been a problem and the legislation would have never gotten passed. But this isn't 50 years ago and the laws have already been passed. Of course big oil is backing the dealers and giving bribes to all the people that will take them but I think 99% is a little high.
 
From a lobby perspective this is about tax revenue from auto dealers. They aren't union anything or big oil anything.

The governor's office said a year ago they wanted tesla to get legislation passed and not do this by executive fiat unbacked by law.

They did, and the governor should sign it. If he doesn't it goes into effect anyway as the NJ gove has pocket approval, not pocket veto.
 
Which one pays him more (either financially, or politically)? That's the one he'll go with. The guy is ethically corrupt.
 
Guess we find out who bought him the highest quality blowjobs soon enough.:D
 
It would be so hilarious if the decided that Tesla cars couldn't be sold in the state and like most of the other states followed along with their lead. I know it probably won't happen like that, but that'd be hilarious.
 
Fuck Chris Christie and his whack-ass anti competitive, anti-free market bullshit.

And he enforced price controls on gas during the hurricane.

Idiot.
 
raz-0 said:
From a lobby perspective this is about tax revenue from auto dealers. They aren't union anything or big oil anything.

The governor's office said a year ago they wanted tesla to get legislation passed and not do this by executive fiat unbacked by law.

They did, and the governor should sign it. If he doesn't it goes into effect anyway as the NJ gove has pocket approval, not pocket veto.
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This is about auto-dealer contributions to the legislature. Dealership associations are multiple private companies and/or individuals because of their numbers they can bypass campaign contribution caps. they can give more than any big corporation can. Depending on the number of dealerships, 50, 100 or 200x as much.

The question is whether NJ has veto override in their constitution. At 32-2, they have the votes. Opposing it would just be a waste of time and anyone hanging on "John McCain in a Fat Suit" would be doing it for political reasons only.
 
The NJ Auto Dealer Association may not be a union in the traditional sense of the word, but they are every bit as powerful and influential as any lobbying group out there.

The membership includes many lawyers and millionaire dealer principles.
 
Allowing tesla to sell cars in a state where you still can't pump your own gas?

I can't believe it.
 
oh so it's not just the telecom industry that gets favorable laws passed to lock up their monopoly of a particular business.
 
Grahamkracka said:
He's in a no-win situation politically. The deal lobby will go apeshit if he approves, yet he goes against the general Republican party line of "more government is bad government" mantra (though they are quite hypocritical about this...but that's another conversation).
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A healthy balance is what's needed. Too much gov't is definitely bad, but so is too little. IMO it's what they what they do with what they have their grubby little fingers in is what tends to spoil the mix. Trying to control things that would do a better job of working themselves out for example.
 
Governor Krispy fat ass Kreme will never let Tesla do business in NJ while he's there. He's got enough traditional car money being funneled into his coffers and likely more for his laughable President bid which we all know he'll lose.

What a fucking joke he is.
 
TheCAD said:
Allowing tesla to sell cars in a state where you still can't pump your own gas?

I can't believe it.
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Its not about selling Tesla's, its about selling Tesla without using state resident dealerships.
 
It's not interest, its fair market value.

Interest doesn't come into play. We're talking about a basic economic pricing calculation based on supply and demand. It's idiotic to attempt to outsmart the market on such a thing.

Price controls on gas during a hurricane mean that the unemployed xbox player living in his mom's basement will run to the store to get gas, only to park his car in their driveway for the next two weeks.
Other people needed the gas more, free market prices were the truly fair way to let them get it.

Punishable by imprisonment. :rolleyes:
 
Ok, analogous to usury. The problem is that in these kinds of situations price often isn't based on supply and demand but fear and desperation. Price gouging uses the advantage of strong human emotions. Emotions that you routinely make the point have no place in free market enterprise.
 
Nothing wrong with price being influenced by fear.

That is the market assigning a subject value to a product.


THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE MARKET.
 
aardvark sandwich said:
Nothing wrong with price being influenced by fear.

That is the market assigning a subject value to a product.


THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE MARKET.
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Markets run on fear and desperation make poor choices. Just like individuals. History is replete with examples.
 
So let's artificially remove fear based on our FEAR that said fear will produce an unpleasent market.

YAY NOW NONE OF US HAVE ANY GAS

*party favor noise*
 
aardvark sandwich said:
So let's artificially remove fear based on our FEAR that said fear will produce an unpleasent market.

YAY NOW NONE OF US HAVE ANY GAS

*party favor noise*
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We're talking about the unusual situation where people located in a specific area have suffered great loss to personal property and livelihood so the price of gas isn't one of their immediate primary concerns nor would price controls have little effect in removing fear in these cases.

My point is simply that desperate people become easy targets for reasons that have nothing to do with the normal functioning of free markets. How does a market even function with such widespread destruction anyway? Here's a clue, they don't.
 
It is the normal function.

When it rains outside, gravity still applies. Even in the desert, where rain is unusual.

What hubris.
 
aardvark sandwich said:
It is the normal function.

When it rains outside, gravity still applies. Even in the desert, where rain is unusual.

What hubris.
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But if it rains to the point that your home or business is literally under water and that's the situation for many around you then clearly the free market can't function properly due to quick and wide scale to physical destruction.

It's hubris to think human economic constructs are equivalent to the forces of nature.
 
If you can afford to purchase a Tesla then you can afford to buy one across the boarder and deny the state any sales tax.
 
No.

You are using an appeal to emotion to suggest someone currently not in peril has a better understanding of the needs of someone in peril. It's more than that. If you support price controls, you literally support the threat of imprisonment of someone attempting to provide a needed and desired product to someone via voluntary exchange.

The person outside the 'danger zone' is under different market forces and likely won't experience a supply shortage. It is completely illogical to think this person should dictate how much value everyone in the danger zone assigns to products likely to hit a supply shock, and it's stupidity is only compounded when this presumption intentionally ignores all attempts by these market participants to circumvent the will of this infallible central planner.
"I know what is best you and I care"
"I know how much you should pay for this product "
"I know how much you value this product "
"stop trying to defy my presumptions about your desires "
"want to go to jail?"
 
aardvark sandwich said:
No.

You are using an appeal to emotion to suggest someone currently not in peril has a better understanding of the needs of someone in peril.
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And price gouging is the use of emotion to charge higher prices than what normal supply and demand principles would otherwise justify. So supply and demand in normal situations but fear and desperation in others.
 
heatlesssun said:
And price gouging is the use of emotion to charge higher prices than what normal supply and demand principles would otherwise justify. So supply and demand in normal situations but fear and desperation in others.
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What is missing is a lack of competition in the market. It makes no sense that any quiver of shortage spikes the price of gas taking a long time to drift back to normal even when the shortage never materialized. OTOH, overproduction or glut takes forever comparatively to propogate through market forces to the consumer. There is a collusion at mutiple levels, nationally with oil producer/refiners and regionally with gasoline retail.

This is fueled in part by an unprecedented permissive era of mergers mostly in the 90's for th purpose of stoking the stock market bubble which have rendered the country into a series of low to non competitive oligopolistic economic sectors.
 
heatlesssun said:
And price gouging is the use of emotion to charge higher prices than what normal supply and demand principles would otherwise justify. So supply and demand in normal situations but fear and desperation in others.
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The supply isn't normal. There is a spike in demand.

How are you not understanding this.
 
jpm100 said:
What is missing is a lack of competition in the market. It makes no sense that any quiver of shortage spikes the price of gas taking a long time to drift back to normal even when the shortage never materialized. OTOH, overproduction or glut takes forever comparatively to propogate through market forces to the consumer. There is a collusion at mutiple levels, nationally with oil producer/refiners and regionally with gasoline retail.

This is fueled in part by an unprecedented permissive era of mergers mostly in the 90's for th purpose of stoking the stock market bubble which have rendered the country into a series of low to non competitive oligopolistic economic sectors.
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If you are still talking about New Jersey during the hurricane, the lack of competition was by design of the central planner. They would not allow people to haul in gasoline or other supplies. They tried to deny the most basic of human and economic incentives.

If the price were allowed to ebb and flow naturally, it would create new incentive for people to bring in gas. The government would not have had to do anything, this would have happened on its own via organic price discovery.

The more you think about it, the stupider it gets.
 
aardvark sandwich said:
The supply isn't normal. There is a spike in demand.

How are you not understanding this.
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It's not so much me getting as everyone when these situations arise. Price gouging becomes a huge complaint and sure it's easy to say supply isn't normal when so much is in ruins after a big natural disaster. However the price the gas station paid for the gas in the tanks didn't change. And when roads are flooded and large scale business closures and generally reduced activity after major disasters, not exactly sure how demand spikes. People may hoard because of the conditions however.

In any case, price gouging is real and it's common in the aftermath of natural disasters and how are you not getting that is interesting as well.
 
re: price gouging

So the seller has people willing to pay more for a product, but he is just supposed to keep the price static and run out of merchandise? That doesn't help anyone.

You are not allowing for any kind of rationing, which is a crucially important factor to the market.

You are making voluntary trade illegal, and you are making speculating illegal.

That is 1000 times more repulsive than a store owner making a potentially bad business decision to alienate his customer base when the market returns to pre-disaster conditions.
 
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