Gotta say, I'm impressed with Ryzen after being an Intel guy for so long.

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by trentchau, May 21, 2019.

  1. trentchau

    trentchau [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,597
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    TL:DR - Long time Intel dude is trying Ryzen and isn't hating it. Actually is mildy impressed by it.

    As a long time buyer of Intel, I have to say I've been impressed the last few months after actually building and owning a few "Newish" Ryzen systems. My wife gave me the okay to upgrade all the machines in the house, and after selling my venerable 5930k to another H member (but keeping my 5960x), I did a splurge and bought a 2700x, a 2600x, Ryzen 1600, and a i5-9400F for the home. I've been pretty impressed by the Ryzen systems. While they are arguably side grades to my older systems, it goes without saying for the total price of what would of been just one or two intel systems, I was able to get 4 total systems and still save money (though the i5-9400 is part of the picture).

    For Long time Intel dudes like me, here are things that I really liked about the Ryzens

    • Performance and package value - It looks like the overall cost of AMD is definitely a lot lower. Not just the chips, but the mb's themselves had great features for prices that were $10~$25 cheaper than their intel counterpart. Doesn't seem like much, but it adds up when building multiple machines.
    • Comes with a really decent cooler - The Wraith coolers are pretty darn quiet and work well. I've always hated the stock Intel cooler and how Toyota Corolla it looked, and all the Wraiths from the stealth to the prism actually look great.
    • The 2700x does solid 1440p gaming at 165hz with a 2070. I got lucky and got a 2070 from Kyle for only $380 and have been putting it through the rounds the last week. While I know the i9-9900 would get 5~10% more on average, I don't feel any sort of lacking running the 2700x.
    • Everyone who was getting an upgrade at the house feels like the Ryzen system they got is AMAZING. That pure new computer feel. It goes without saying it feels great when people love their new gifts.
    • The total savings from all the AMD stuff allowed me to upgrade all the video cards in the house to at least a 1660, and that really upped the wow factor for everyones upgrade. If you can't tell, lots of happy gamers at the house right now ranging from 11 years old all the way up to me.
    • Thank god the Ryzen cooler's are a LOT quieter then the fans on their Radeon Cards. All Radeon video cards I've owned are stupidly loud.

    Here's some things that I didn't like about the Ryzen systems I built. Can't always be great.

    • Memory issues are a major bummer for all the Ryzen systems I built. It seems like D.O.C.P (whatever XMS is for Intel) really doesn't seem to work on ANY of my boards. I had major system crashes and failures and was completely frustrated the first day as the systems would either completely act up, or work for half a day and then did a complete kernal crash. Eventually from research I found out it tends to be an issue with memory speed. I ended up just putting it on auto or default, and the systems are great now, it just kinda sucks having DDR3400 ram that runs at 2400. I did read about upping the voltage to memory, but I don't really remember having these issues on the Intels, or at least issues these bad. The crashes and OS blue screens were major critical errors in the system that really sucked.
    • Microcenters available MATX boards for AMD (and also what research has shown me) sucks MAJOR donkey balls. I went from a very capable MATX x99 board for my 5930k, and I feel like this new Asus TuF board I have is a major downgrade. Unfortunately it was the only board considered decent.
    • For gaming, the same price 9400f with the 1660 has been running games faster and more smoothly game play wise compared to the 2600x. I haven't done proper benchmarks, but it's more just a feel thing. Both systems are just used for gaming, but those in the house have commented that the 9400f feels better when I ask.

    So long post short, I just wanted to share a little bit of opinion as AMD owner who hasn't had an AMD chip as their main since the Tbird 1.33ghz. While I have loved it, will probably stay intel when it's time to retire the 5960x, but gotta admit it's been super fun building those 3 Ryzen machines the last month.
     
  2. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,716
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Ram keeps being a point that would need some attention for first time buyers :).
     
  3. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,349
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Here is to hoping that AMD has also worked with G.Skill for some 32GB Samsung A-die high-speed low-latency Flare X DIMMs...!
     
  4. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

    Messages:
    21,175
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    which ram did you go with? i'm assuming 3400 should be B dies and did you update the bios on the boards? there have been a lot of memory compatibility updates over the past year. worst case just set the memory to ddr4 3000 and leave the timing on auto, bump the memory voltage to 1.37v and call it a day. you may not need the voltage bump but it's not going to hurt anything doing it, any ddr4 with a passive heatsink can perfectly handle 1.4v. difference from 2400 to 3000 is actually noticeable in minimum frame rates where as the performance curve falls off hard from 3000 to 3200 and anything above 3200 is only really noticeable in benchmarks. hopefully that changes with zen 2 but if they end up unlinking infinity fabric from the memory clock speed it may not matter as much hitting high clock rates on memory.
     
    N4CR and Sulphademus like this.
  5. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,976
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    If both my rigs were not performing as well as they are I most definitely would've jumped on a 2700x or 2950x this round. All the reviews/tests I read on [H]ard totally won me over. I heard about how picky they can be with memory too but at least that's something that can be worked around even if some returns end up being needed.
     
    trentchau likes this.
  6. Sulphademus

    Sulphademus Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    319
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Really ought to be able to get way faster than 2400 on the memory. 3400 is unnecessary, as stated, performance plateaus. But 2933/3000 should be doable under default settings.
     
    N4CR likes this.
  7. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,138
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Just wait a month. Ryzen 2 is going to punch 9900k in the throat. Leaked benches from very credible sources are already showing big gains in ipc across the board.
     
    LightsOut41 and FlawleZ like this.
  8. trentchau

    trentchau [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,597
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    I went with some Gskill Tridents. I also had issues though with all the ram sticks I had including some 2666 ripjaws, and ddr3000 vipers if I tried D.O.C.P. If I just ran auto it was fine.

    I actually did put the ram at 3000 and got the same crashes. It looks like on my 2700x it's stable at 2600ish without upping voltage. I'll try what you suggest though. I've just been leaving it on Auto so I can actually use the system rather then troubleshoot it, since it's summer and it's time for family World War Z :)
     
    cageymaru likes this.
  9. trentchau

    trentchau [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,597
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    To be honest I'm feeling like it's less Punching in the throat and more catching up to the same weight class. When I do side by side test with my 5960x running stock over my new 2700x stock, the 5960x has been beating it on all test. The 2700x is very close, and also people will note that it's a lot cheaper. The only thing is it's also 4 years newer. In technology, time really allows a lot of luxury in both decreasing prices and offering time to catch up.

    I do really like ho Lisa is steering AMD though. I'm very comfortable having 1 or 2 amd machines in the house now after my experiences with these Ryzen systems.
     
  10. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,138
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Well there are highly credible leaks now that we are so close to announcement day of May 27th. The leaks are showing that the new architecture is literally running circles around the old. We are talking about 15% IPC increases between Zen + and Zen 2. That surmounts to at least a 5% margin above Intels fastest 9900k. I would say 5% at these high numbers equal a significant punch to the throat per se.

    In as far as frequencies, like the 9900k at 5ghz the new Zen 2's are pretty much confirmed to be running at 5.0 ghz boost. Were talking about a 100% decrease in node size form last gen. Intel is still doing 14nm ++++++^10 as of now lol

    Whilst I wont argue with your specific observations. I find it hard to believe that your 5960x is trading exact blows or better with the 2700x. For instance on average the 2700x is only 9 to 11% slower in gaming meterics alone and faster in some multithreaded workloads than the 9900k. The 9900k is on record the fastest Intel chip ever produced per IPC. Thus either Intel has not improved their 9th gen processors much at all from your 4 generations old chip, or you are suffering from experimenters bias aka Researchers Bias.
     
    LightsOut41 likes this.
  11. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    53,542
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Well, I think a few things need to get cleared up. You are clearly using ASUS motherboards which are a bit weird. D.O.C.P. is an ASUS technology for automatic tuning. It's a cool technology, but it doesn't always work. XMP what you are referring to on Intel CPU's, but the thing is its supported by both platforms. Memory issues, if you set the boards up correctly are pretty rare. With X370 it was a problem. With X470 and B450, not so much. Even X399 was vastly improved over X370 and later BIOS updates smoothed things out allot on many motherboards. You also purchased an ASUS TUF board which is a downgrade because ASUS moved it to the bottom of their product stack as a budget gaming option rather than the overbuilt ROG equivalent with a focus on quality and stability. Current TUF boards are anything but that. Microcenter may not have the greatest selection, but ATX boards outsell MATX to this day.

    Unfortunately, ASUS' is still selling motherboards on the old "TUF" series reputation even though what we have now is a completely different product for a different market. Its a shell of what it once was but the reality is that TUF really didn't need to exist. Believe it or not, the TUF series was created for people who bought ROG motherboards and never overclocked them. ASUS found out the bulk of ROG boards are run at stock speeds. It was a way to segment their market a bit more and create products which favored people who bought overbuilt ROG boards but didn't want all the gaming and fluff features. TUF boards were still expensive, but they were cheaper than ROG boards. Now ROG is diluted to death and TUF is entry level and targeted at gamers. ASUS never publicized this change. Tough series boards seemed to disappear as far as PR and review samples were concerned. ASUS quit having meetings with us (and other tech sites) to go over their product lines and their thoughts on product stack changes.
     
    Meeho, GoldenTiger, c3k and 3 others like this.
  12. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    53,542
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Well, its not surprising. Zen and Zen+ were only roughly the same IPC as Haswell. While Haswell-E wasn't faster in terms of IPC, the overall platform is stronger. We are comparing AMD's 8c/16t consumer part with similar IPC to Intel's 8c/16t HEDT part (derived from Xeon) that clocks higher. Its not hard to figure out why your 5960X performs better most of the time. X99 is more robust than X470, but they are intended for different markets with different price points. Honestly, my upgrade to Threadripper was done primarily just to support AMD and because I hadn't changed my CPU out in almost five years. My Threadripper 2920X is faster in some things, but only where the additional cores come into play. For gaming and allot of what I do, it was a lateral move at best. X399 is certainly more modern than X99, so that factored in as well.
     
    IdiotInCharge and Pieter3dnow like this.
  13. Jandor

    Jandor [H]Lite

    Messages:
    99
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2018
    Take care when you compare with Intel, because you shall compare with Intel patched CPU for security reasons and there is a terrible drop in performances just where Intel used to be leading. And very couple of months it's seems not to be over with new security breaches.
     
  14. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,349
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Fixed that for you,,, ;^p

    Let's call it Enthusiast Bias...!

    With the AMD sockets (AM4 / TR4), there is a far smaller pool of motherboards to choose from, and you always need to wait a few months or so after they all trickle out for any issues to be taken care of before making a purchase decision...

    Micro ATX for AM4 / TR4 sockets is pretty slim; only a singular mATX TR4 & no X470 for mATX, but a variety of B450 motherboards...

    Mini ITX is even more of a limited selection, with a loose handful of each tier, X470 & B450...

    I am really wondering how limited the mATX / mITX X570 / B550 choices may be...?

    And rumor mill has the B550s coming about three months or so after the (more expensive) X570 motherboards...!
     
  15. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,802
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Be careful when you imply that performance drops are across the board, and that AMD is immune ;)
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  16. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    53,542
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Indeed. The selection is smaller, but I will disagree on necessarily having to wait a few months before making a purchase decision. While its not a bad idea, I work with these boards sometimes before they are even released. Not every launch is a mess the way X370 was. In fact, most aren't that bad.

    Indeed. AMD loses performance due to mitigation of the exploits its processors are vulnerable to. However, they don't lose nearly as much performance. As you said, its not across the board either. And again, the bulk of the public doesn't need to apply these patches necessarily.
     
    GoldenTiger and IdiotInCharge like this.
  17. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,349
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    See...!?! I got that X370 ITX launch Enthusiast Bias...!
     
  18. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,802
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Understanding the basic foundation of the issues in question, we know that current (rather, 'repeatedly refreshed') Intel releases are likely to be impacted more, but going forward, we can also expect significant effort toward poking holes in Ryzen- both from malicious actors and those trying to stay ahead of malicious actors. And given that Intel has been aware of the potential and obviously AMD has been on the ball, we can expect future performance gains from architectural improvements to hold against currently known attack vectors.

    I don't expect a large delta here; the circles of research involved are incredibly small, and the scope of potential exploits against current CPU architectural theory for technology that can actually be produced at volume as consumer CPUs is pretty narrow.

    Moreover, it doesn't really affect the OP, which is the point :).
     
  19. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    53,542
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    I agree completely. When Apple said crap about the Mac not needing anti-virus software the malicious bastards turned their attention towards the Mac and as it turns out, Max OS X at the time was far more vulnerable than Windows. The Mac had security through obscurity. Its potentially the same deal for Ryzen. At least, its a definite possibility. We won't really know for months if not years.
     
    GoldenTiger and lostin3d like this.
  20. trentchau

    trentchau [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,597
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    That's pretty much how I feel. The 2700x was an upgrade from the 5930k and I'm very happy with it so the upgrade was worth it. I just had the time and chance to compare similiar 8/16 parts so I took the dive, full well knowing that the original target markets for either the 2700x and 5960x were different.

    Concerning Matx. Yes atx sells more. But I already had a Matx case and I like how much less space itx and Matx takes. So it kinda suck having pretty much no options for Matx.
     
  21. somebrains

    somebrains Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    472
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    I have an ASRock B450m HDV + R3 1200 I threw together for a dedicated Kubernetes lab box tonight.

    Haven't updated it to latest bios, it's running 1.30

    Detects my Crucial ram fine.
    I'm not overclocking an Ubuntu install.
    It's been a no drama deal so far.

    4 physical cores and 16gb ram is more resources on tap than a lot of Dev Laptops.

    I'd rather not go get another beater Thinkpad for whatever time it takes for me to expand out of my AWS & VMware only world.

    It was cheap and I pulled my x299 build out bc I'm wasting more time than I'd like booting into Win10 and playing shooters.
     
  22. somebrains

    somebrains Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    472
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    Latest bios and drivers have my B450m + 1200 running 2x16gb Corsair LPX 3200 at XMP.

    Decided to install Win10, that was kludgy and awful, but once it was in a current state it felt fine.

    Dunno why I burned a day stress testing and mem testing but everything was fine.

    In the near term I'll use Ryzen as a Linux platform.
     
  23. chrisjames61

    chrisjames61 n00b

    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014


    Just download "DRAM Calculator for Ryzen™" it is free and Thaiphoon burner to identify your ram. You will get all the timings and sub timings you need to get your ram to run at its rated speeds.
     
    c3k, FrgMstr and trentchau like this.
  24. somebrains

    somebrains Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    472
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    Playing BO4 and Civ6 I only noticed that I should upgrade the 1200 if I wanted it as a primary gaming platform.

    3440x1440p I'm bottlenecking a 1080ti.

    I'm fine with 3200 XMP, 32gb with 2 sticks is all I need for this build. My takeaway is that ram issues that put me off b350/x370 aren't present in my build.

    Instead of worrying about getting magic ram I'd spend the $ on a 2700 and be done with it. That's been a constant since a Cyrix 486 was still a new in box option.

    If I was really starved for performance zen2 hopefully would yield more clockspeed with lower temps + better whatever they iterated.
     
  25. trentchau

    trentchau [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,597
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    well looks like I will be getting a 3900x as soon as it comes out :)
     
  26. Silentbob343

    Silentbob343 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,754
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
  27. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,455
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    I am running 3200mhz rock solid with my Ryzen 5 1600. Waiting to drop in 3900x now.

    3200mhz should be no issue unless your board has older bios and some issues with the ram.
     
    BillPaxtonIsGod likes this.
  28. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,716
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Never had any problems with Samsung B die Gskill 3200CL14 kit (well the problems I had was with a bad Asus crosshair VI hero motherboard not with the ram)
     
  29. Unoid

    Unoid [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,049
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    I bet Kyle is super impressed and he's been an Intel employee for a couple months :p
    We just won't hear him say as much
     
  30. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,138
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    What would you like to hear me say?
     
  31. somebrains

    somebrains Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    472
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    He wants to hear you say iced cold Coke or Pepsi both taste good on a summer day.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  32. flofixer

    flofixer n00b

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Don't want you to get into any trouble with the suits
     
  33. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    16,336
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    the new CPU's sound impressive...the new GPU's are meh...
     
  34. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,349
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    You mean the GPUs we literally know nothing about, excepting they are on a 7nm process & supposedly have a whole new architecture...?

    The GPUs that have yet to be independently tested / benchmarked...?

    Way to make a snap judgement based on nothing...
     
    N4CR, otg, blkt and 1 other person like this.
  35. STEM

    STEM Gawd

    Messages:
    561
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Considering that Intel's only real problem currently is manufacturing process, once that is sorted out, they will regain the performance crown once more. Oh, and fix those annoying security vulnerabilities of course :D
     
  36. Omegas

    Omegas [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,631
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    I'm pretty sure they knew who they were hiring when the offer went out...
     
    Kato1144 likes this.
  37. KillA_KIA

    KillA_KIA n00b

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Wow! That's really cool, dude! I've been more of an AMD fan, but that is due to budgeting and faith. My last intel that I had as a main rig was my old Pentium MMX 233mhz (OCed to 266mhz). I do have an i3 4th gen that my ex used to use, but not for gaming. If Intel would come way down with prices on their gaming flagships, more in line with the top tier Ryzen series, then I would be happy to have one of those. My current rig is an R5 1600(non-X) OCed to 3.8Ghz base stable across all cores. My ram is a sad DDR4 2400, but it is pretty fast. I think the issues you had with ram was more of having ram that was either overspeced for the board or not tested on the board by the manufacturer. Next system(s) you build, do some heavy research on compatible parts. I have yet to build a system that has any of those issues and, as far as Ryzen goes, I have built 2 with thorough research on compatibility. Have fun with the Ryzens and look out for the up-and-coming ones.
     
    trentchau and N4CR like this.