Got to play the 360 today.... (yes, yes, another thread)

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GRAFiZ

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My impression... "Meh"

Seriously, it aint a bad machine, the games looked great and played well.

However, I don't understand the hoopla over it.

To me it appears the 360 is just an "upgrade", an improved XBox.

Nothing about it jumped out and screamed "I'M THE FUTURE NOW!!!" as they all promised back at E3.

Bottom line... take an Xbox, increase the visual quality to reflect CURRENT technology and you have a 360.

The main problem with the internet is the entire place is filled with !!!!!!s that will back any product with as much enthusiasm as they can possibly provide. Truth be damned.

Remember, in trying to sell others on something, there's always a good chance you're really just trying to sell it to yourself.

Is the 360 a nice product? Yes indeed.

Will I buy one? Not at first, but when they come down in price, probably so.

Does the 360 warrant the raw emotion displayed on this and other forums? Hell no.

Have a nice day.
 
I agree with you 100%. The only thing I would tell you though, is that these launch games are really rushed. You, I and everyone can see that. The Xbox 360 is not about what it can do today, but what it can do in Feb.-June when all the second wave of games start coming out. Thats when you'll see the great visuals. I'm not a !!!!!!, but, I have seen gameplay videos of Gears Of War, and I must say it looks amazing. Far better than I have seen on any pc. I'm getting one on launch day just because I am dieing to play some high res games on my hdtv and the 480p xbox games just are not cutting it anymore. Especially after playing a game like F.E.A.R. on the PC.
 
GRAFiZ said:
My impression... "Meh"

Seriously, it aint a bad machine, the games looked great and played well.

However, I don't understand the hoopla over it.

To me it appears the 360 is just an "upgrade", an improved XBox.

Nothing about it jumped out and screamed "I'M THE FUTURE NOW!!!" as they all promised back at E3.

Bottom line... take an Xbox, increase the visual quality to reflect CURRENT technology and you have a 360.

The main problem with the internet is the entire place is filled with !!!!!!s that will back any product with as much enthusiasm as they can possibly provide. Truth be damned.

Remember, in trying to sell others on something, there's always a good chance you're really just trying to sell it to yourself.

Is the 360 a nice product? Yes indeed.

Will I buy one? Not at first, but when they come down in price, probably so.

Does the 360 warrant the raw emotion displayed on this and other forums? Hell no.

Have a nice day.
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QFT
 
thelead said:
I agree with you 100%. The only thing I would tell you though, is that these launch games are really rushed. You, I and everyone can see that. The Xbox 360 is not about what it can do today, but what it can do in Feb.-June when all the second wave of games start coming out. Thats when you'll see the great visuals. I'm not a !!!!!!, but, I have seen gameplay videos of Gears Of War, and I must say it looks amazing. Far better than I have seen on any pc. I'm getting one on launch day just because I am dieing to play some high res games on my hdtv and the 480p xbox games just are not cutting it anymore. Especially after playing a game like F.E.A.R. on the PC.
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I remember reading that some people have seen some of the games slow down on the 360. That's playing ported PC games on the 360. That can't be good for the 360's future.
 
DukenukemX said:
I remember reading that some people have seen some of the games slow down on the 360. That's playing ported PC games on the 360. That can't be good for the 360's future.
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The thing about the demo kiosks are this: You're only seeing a small portion of what the new X360 can do.

If you're in it to compare it to a PC or the last XBOX you're not thinking clearly. It's more than just an upgraded XBOX, give it some time for some really quality titles to come out that start taking advantage of everything it has to offer. The new Live service and profiles are badass also, and isn't it supposedly a media center extender too?

I've been folowing the little details about it, and I have to say I'm really excited about it and I haven't even played it yet. I'm stoked about the simple fact I don't even have to get up to turn it on and off. Wireless on/off/hibernate mode is awesome.
 
mETRo said:
The thing about the demo kiosks are this: You're only seeing a small portion of what the new X360 can do.

If you're in it to compare it to a PC or the last XBOX you're not thinking clearly. It's more than just an upgraded XBOX, give it some time for some really quality titles to come out that start taking advantage of everything it has to offer.
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Well like GRAFiZ said the 360 is technically an up to date console system. It's state of the art. The art happens to be borrowed from the PC.

The 360 graphics chip is a mock of the PC graphics chip. The PowerPC chip isn't even comparable in performance ot the G4 chip.

The graphics won't get much better. The gameplay might but the graphics seem stuck. If PC games are slowing it down then I wouldn't expect much more from the 360 in graphics then what you currently see.
 
DukenukemX said:
Well like GRAFiZ said the 360 is technically an up to date console system. It's state of the art. The art happens to be borrowed from the PC.

The 360 graphics chip is a mock of the PC graphics chip. The PowerPC chip isn't even comparable in performance ot the G4 chip.

The graphics won't get much better. The gameplay might but the graphics seem stuck. If PC games are slowing it down then I wouldn't expect much more from the 360 in graphics then what you currently see.
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That's what people said about PS2 and the original Xbox also. Look at the latest titles that have graphics that are practically stunning (GT4, God of War, Chronicles of Riddick, etc etc). It's a lot harder to optimize games when you have to optimize them for 500 kinds of video cards. When you have one set platform to use, CPU, RAM, GPU, you can work your magic in ways that you cant when you have to develop for a multitude of hardware.

I am guessing we will see some really stunning visuals with the new system once the devs start unleashing the power the X360 has on tap, but that's not all of what I was saying. I was saying it will do much more than "look good" or play games. There's so much more to the system than just being a console, it's taking the console a step further which is a very good thing. For $400 I would say you cannot beat it for performance/pricepoint ratio.
 
CHAoS_NiNJA said:
Actually, you can. Its called a "computer upgrade". ;)
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yeah....that'll get you one video card, takeing into account your already set up with PCI-E, oh did i mention xenos>$400 video card?
 
Of course I'm gonna pipe in here :D
It really IS just an updated Xbox with a couple new toys... nothing really that new, and the media centre capabilities are borrowed from the mods on the Xbox 1 as well. BUT...
That said... if you think that the rushed launch software is showing off its graphical muscle or that the rushed ports are optimized for the stripped down G5 cores, you're mistaken. 2nd gen or 3rd gen games will likely look a lot better than the current rushed software, as is the case with all consoles. There is room for improvement as the developers learn what to do with these cores. Remember, one developer said "running unoptimized code on the X360 makes it feel like a 1.7ghz P3" - so whenever they learn how to optimize, you'll see some more eye candy. Wow, I just said something nice about the X360 :eek:
 
DukenukemX said:
Well like GRAFiZ said the 360 is technically an up to date console system. It's state of the art. The art happens to be borrowed from the PC.

The 360 graphics chip is a mock of the PC graphics chip. The PowerPC chip isn't even comparable in performance ot the G4 chip.
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A mock of the PC graphics chip ? what ? Im sorry you are wrong. The graphics chip in the 360 is superiour in about every way possible. Not to mention the fact that the next generation ATI cards will use a GPU similiar to what the 30 has already.
The graphics won't get much better. The gameplay might but the graphics seem stuck. If PC games are slowing it down then I wouldn't expect much more from the 360 in graphics then what you currently see.
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Another false statement. The very nature of consoles is that, games improve over the lifetime of the system. This has occured for every console that has ever been released. The fact that there is a single hardware configuration means developers can learn new tricks and techniques for programming without having to worry about how it will effect the performance on a different setup.

It amazes me that people knock the 360 as an updated piece of hardware when graphics cards, processor manufactourers have been doing this for decades, in terms of PC parts. The XBOX360 has more revolutionary features, over its predecessor, then any current videocard has over its previous generation. Just look at the 7800 cards from Nvidia, what ground breaking, revolutionary features does this card have over a 6800 ? or is it just an updated piece of hardware?
 
I don't care what anyone says. The games on the demo disk? "meh" is the correct word.

Kameo was ridiculously fun, but not exactly the right game for visuals. Kong and CoD2 are not the best game for visuals either.

Gears of War, GR3, and PGR3 however... if the console can in fact deliver those visuals will be impressive.

As of right now, with what we have playable, I have to agree with the first post. It is just "meh" because the games we have to play currently.

Besides, we all know it is about games anyway. I loved God of War, even though it had no camera options, and lots of alaising because it was a good, fun, game. Not because it had the best visuals.
 
What we have to remember is that most of us here are PC gamers. If you're only into consoles, and you go from xbox1 to 360, there's a HUGE difference. I played the 360 kiosk, and wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. Then I glanced over at the xbox & ps2 kiosks next to it....WOW. the 360 is leaps and bounds better than the old consoles.

Just remember that the majority of console gamers out there don't also own a high-end gaming PC. These visual's are new to them.
 
GRAFiZ said:
My impression... "Meh"

Seriously, it aint a bad machine, the games looked great and played well.

However, I don't understand the hoopla over it.

To me it appears the 360 is just an "upgrade", an improved XBox.

Nothing about it jumped out and screamed "I'M THE FUTURE NOW!!!" as they all promised back at E3.

Bottom line... take an Xbox, increase the visual quality to reflect CURRENT technology and you have a 360.

The main problem with the internet is the entire place is filled with !!!!!!s that will back any product with as much enthusiasm as they can possibly provide. Truth be damned.

Remember, in trying to sell others on something, there's always a good chance you're really just trying to sell it to yourself.

Is the 360 a nice product? Yes indeed.

Will I buy one? Not at first, but when they come down in price, probably so.

Does the 360 warrant the raw emotion displayed on this and other forums? Hell no.

Have a nice day.
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Pretty much. I do see alot of value in the XBox 360 though. You won't get the performance or graphics quality out of any computer less than a $1000 and probably more expensive than that. Even at $399 I call it a bargain. That being said, trying to play a FPS game on it was less than pleasant from a control aspect of the game. A gamepad simply put, lacks precision.

I will likely buy one to, as all the good racing games come out for consoles, and for the price it has alot of compelling features that I wouldn't mind having. Including the fact that it is also a DVD player, something I need right now as mine is near death.
 
DukenukemX said:
Well like GRAFiZ said the 360 is technically an up to date console system. It's state of the art. The art happens to be borrowed from the PC.

The 360 graphics chip is a mock of the PC graphics chip. The PowerPC chip isn't even comparable in performance ot the G4 chip.

The graphics won't get much better. The gameplay might but the graphics seem stuck. If PC games are slowing it down then I wouldn't expect much more from the 360 in graphics then what you currently see.
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Apparently you know next to nothing about the actual hardware in the 360. The graphics chip in the 360 is like nothing you will see in a PC for at least another year. Some of the stuff in the graphics chip (EDRAM) you probably wont see for at least two years!

As for the PowerPC chip, the X360 has 3 cores based upon the PowerPC, except that each of those 3 cores can execute two threads at once. Also the chip runs at 3.2GHz, faster than any PowerPC chip you can get today IIRC. So 6 threads, 3 cores, 3.2GHz...seems at least as fast as any PowerPC chip today if not more so.
 
Erasmus354 said:
Apparently you know next to nothing about the actual hardware in the 360. The graphics chip in the 360 is like nothing you will see in a PC for at least another year. Some of the stuff in the graphics chip (EDRAM) you probably wont see for at least two years!

As for the PowerPC chip, the X360 has 3 cores based upon the PowerPC, except that each of those 3 cores can execute two threads at once. Also the chip runs at 3.2GHz, faster than any PowerPC chip you can get today IIRC. So 6 threads, 3 cores, 3.2GHz...seems at least as fast as any PowerPC chip today if not more so.
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I hear that from the console devs all the time on the web. Every new console that is put out makes rediculous claims like that. Fact of the matter is, I've played XBox 360 and it wasn't a PC killer by any stretch of the imagination.

As far as processor specifications, the architecture isn't comparable to a PC's x86 architecture directly. So the jury is still out on that.

Fact is, the XBox 360 is amazing hardware for the price. However, it has already been pointed out that it is a static design, where PC's are not. If the XBox 360 design lasts 5 years, by the time it's due for replacement PC's hardware will have surpassed the consoles again by huge margins.

The original XBox was near equal to the PC's of the day, and it's graphics hardware claimed to be better than that of PC's of the day. Today the XBox can't do most of what a PC can. Lighting, textures and everything are always less on the consoles now. The same will be true in another five years.
 
I find it pretty funny when people compare XBOX 360 to the PC when a cartoonish XBOX 360 launch title (Kameo) has more advanced shader effects in it than all of the PC games released in the last year combined have in them.
 
Name the "shader effect" that isn't in use on any PC game please.

sarbz said:
What we have to remember is that most of us here are PC gamers. If you're only into consoles, and you go from xbox1 to 360, there's a HUGE difference. I played the 360 kiosk, and wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. Then I glanced over at the xbox & ps2 kiosks next to it....WOW. the 360 is leaps and bounds better than the old consoles.

Just remember that the majority of console gamers out there don't also own a high-end gaming PC. These visual's are new to them.
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Ding ding, we have a winner! I don't think we even need to compare them so directly. If we want to talk about visuals on $500 graphics cards, well these people will buy an xbox360 so long as the games appeal to them anyways. My friends on the other hand, will shit themselves even if a game looks ONLY ;) as good as FEAR does on my machine. It does not have to blow it out of the water.
 
texuspete00 said:
Name the "shader effect" that isn't in use on any PC game please.
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Kameo uses Depth of Field for more dramatic special effects, HDR for better lighting, and Geometry Instancing that actually is used to innovate gameplay (instead of improve performance or IQ) hand-in-hand THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE GAME. In fact, even the first 5 seconds of Kameo use most of these things off the bat. You see hundreds of fully detailed dragons flying through the air (thanks to GI) with the depth of field effect applied that you can actually shoot down. In Kameo there are also parts where you have to smash your way through a Braveheart-style battlefield filled with thousands of fully detailed and fully interactive trolls, again thanks to GI. Try to think of 4 or 5 PC games that use even 2 out of 3 of those shader effects to the extent described... There isn't even one.

PC games can't do this because it would require people to have SM3.0 or better cards to play a game at all, since the shader effects are integrated into the gameplay and not just used for eye candy. Being that most PC owners have SM1.x or SM2.x cards, you aren't going to see PC games with the amount of shader effects XBOX 360 exclusive games have anytime soon. For instance, what would you do with the Kameo battlefield sequences above that have thousands of fully detailed enemies that you must fight through when you are rendering on a PC that doesn't have a Geometry Instancing-enabled video card? Just skip the sequence? Have 50 enemies sparsely placed around the landscape instead of thousands of enemies? Make it look like Atari 2600 graphics? None of these are acceptable, so devs just plain don't put sequences like that in PC games so most PC owners can play the game.

P.S. - Another launch title Perfect Dark Zero uses displacement mapping which to date is not used in any PC games I know of. Not sure if Kameo has that too, but it might since it was programmed by the same dev.
 
displacement mapping is the shit. I've seen some gameplay videos from perfect dark:zero, and the environment is amazing (I'm assuming displacement mapping is used for bricks & walls and such....at least it looks like it is). I know displacement mapping from my CG background. Didn't think I'd see it in games any time soon though. It's a cpu hog when you're rendering images.
 
I'm only buying a few to resell, but I think it's hilarious how some folks are judging the final product based on a demo station in walmart.

I guess you'd turn down a free porsche because you had bad performance from one when playing 'Burnout.'
 
Apallohadas said:
I'm only buying a few to resell, but I think it's hilarious how some folks are judging the final product based on a demo station in walmart.

I guess you'd turn down a free porsche because you had bad performance from one when playing 'Burnout.'
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Maybe not Burnout, but Gran Turismo 4 maybe.
 
Apallohadas said:
I'm only buying a few to resell, but I think it's hilarious how some folks are judging the final product based on a demo station in walmart.

I guess you'd turn down a free porsche because you had bad performance from one when playing 'Burnout.'
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Umm.... It *IS* the final product. The XBox 360 demos that are in the retail stores, are the final consoles that will be shipped. The games aren't representative of what we COULD see in a couple years time, but certainly, these ARE the final hardware that will be shipping. They've already been built as they have to be manufactured before release day. Which is what? Two weeks away? Thinking these are not final products is unrealistic.
 
Correct. The consoles are final retail, and the games are either final or near-final builds.
 
I think too many people deluded themselves by believing the !!!!!!s when they said "OMG! IT WILL BE LIKE A SUPER HIGH-END PC FOR $400, THIS IS THE END OF PCS!!" It's a static design, which is both an upside and a downfall...it's also a radically different design from what developers are used to. Developers will be making amazing-looking games for it in 2 or 3 years, but by then, PC games like UT2007 will be out and look even more mind-blowing.

It's totally unrealistic to think that a $400 console can beat out a $2000 PC. It looks good for the price, yes, but seriously now, who are you kidding?
 
finalgt said:
I think too many people deluded themselves by believing the !!!!!!s when they said "OMG! IT WILL BE LIKE A SUPER HIGH-END PC FOR $400, THIS IS THE END OF PCS!!" It's a static design, which is both an upside and a downfall...it's also a radically different design from what developers are used to. Developers will be making amazing-looking games for it in 2 or 3 years, but by then, PC games like UT2007 will be out and look even more mind-blowing.

It's totally unrealistic to think that a $400 console can beat out a $2000 PC. It looks good for the price, yes, but seriously now, who are you kidding?
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With a sig like yours, i'll take that with a grain of salt....
 
What we have to remember is that most of us here are PC gamers. If you're only into consoles, and you go from xbox1 to 360, there's a HUGE difference. I played the 360 kiosk, and wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. Then I glanced over at the xbox & ps2 kiosks next to it....WOW. the 360 is leaps and bounds better than the old consoles.
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You are right. I just got done playing FEAR, then went and played the console at a Wal-Mart, and was less than overwhelmed... then I started playing games on my old Xbox... There is a HUGE difference. And the difference is enormous considering you are going from a old Geforce4 (or is a GF3?) and a 700mhz CPU to a next-gen graphics card not available on the PC (yet!) and 3 dual core CPUs running at 3.2ghz machine for only $299-399, you have yourself a winner. Try making that large an upgrade on the PC and see what you end up spending.

And to the guy that said something about "Not a PC killer", I really don't think that MS is interested in building something that would make their biggest platform and money maker obsolete. Which is why they don't want to support a keyboard and mouse.
 
Json23 said:
You are right. I just got done playing FEAR, then went and played the console at a Wal-Mart, and was less than overwhelmed... then I started playing games on my old Xbox... There is a HUGE difference. And the difference is enormous considering you are going from a old Geforce4 (or is a GF3?) and a 700mhz CPU to a next-gen graphics card not available on the PC (yet!) and 3 dual core CPUs running at 3.2ghz machine for only $299-399, you have yourself a winner. Try making that large an upgrade on the PC and see what you end up spending.

And to the guy that said something about "Not a PC killer", I really don't think that MS is interested in building something that would make their biggest platform and money maker obsolete. Which is why they don't want to support a keyboard and mouse.
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No doubt true. I was commenting on the people that have been saying that. Now that the XBox 360 is "here" more or less, it's obviously not.
 
steviep said:
Correct. The consoles are final retail, and the games are either final or near-final builds.
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So which is it? Final? Near Final? Almost there Final? We're sorta final final?

Does 1 game = all games? According to you guys that is the case.

Does 1 display monitor = your home monitor/television? According to you guys, that is the case again.

If I were a consumer thinking about buying one, I'd wait until something a little more concrete was available before making a decision, as opposed to relying on 'well I saw this display in walmart....' postings.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
Umm.... It *IS* the final product. The XBox 360 demos that are in the retail stores, are the final consoles that will be shipped. The games aren't representative of what we COULD see in a couple years time, but certainly, these ARE the final hardware that will be shipping. They've already been built as they have to be manufactured before release day. Which is what? Two weeks away? Thinking these are not final products is unrealistic.
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When I say 'final product' I mean the system's performance in actual gameplay, so for argument purposes, let's say 'including the games.'

Otherwise staring at a blank screen would be a very difficult way to judge the product right?

Some of you have decided that after seeing the demo you know all there is to know, and I think that's a tad bit off.
 
I'd be more excited about the XBox 360 if 70% of the games listed coming out for it weren't sports (racing included) games. Another 20% are FPS. That leaves 10% for everything else with some originality. :eek:

I'm not buying a $400 console to play a rehashed sport game with shinier graphics or a FPS with shitty controls.
 
tranCendenZ said:
Kameo uses Depth of Field for more dramatic special effects, HDR for better lighting, and Geometry Instancing that actually is used to innovate gameplay (instead of improve performance or IQ) hand-in-hand THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE GAME.

P.S. - Another launch title Perfect Dark Zero uses displacement mapping which to date is not used in any PC games I know of. Not sure if Kameo has that too, but it might since it was programmed by the same dev.
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Actually Depth of Field is in NFSU2, and Geometry Instancing and HDR are both in Far Cry. However, I don't think Displacement Mapping is actively used in any current games. Modern videocards can do all of these things though, its just the massive number of people out there without modern cards that have kept developers from implementing this stuff by now.

Regardless, the 360 is very impressive both for it's ability to do all these things at once for such a low price, and for actually having games at launch that are using these abilities. Now, if most 360 games actual gameplay is improved as much as the graphics are being improved then it will be a killer system.
 
sarbz said:
What we have to remember is that most of us here are PC gamers. If you're only into consoles, and you go from xbox1 to 360, there's a HUGE difference. I played the 360 kiosk, and wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. Then I glanced over at the xbox & ps2 kiosks next to it....WOW. the 360 is leaps and bounds better than the old consoles.

Just remember that the majority of console gamers out there don't also own a high-end gaming PC. These visual's are new to them.
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Extremely True!

Perhaps we need a console sub forum?

Also, a reminder: Who cares if someone doesn't like your beloved Xbox360? And who the hell cares that someone doesn't like our beloved PC's?

Each to his own, come here to post experiences, not to try and convert people to like hardware.

Seriously, this forum needs a good cleaning.
 
Warmonkey said:
Extremely True!

Perhaps we need a console sub forum?

Also, a reminder: Who cares if someone doesn't like your beloved Xbox360? And who the hell cares that someone doesn't like our beloved PC's?

Each to his own, come here to post experiences, not to try and convert people to like hardware.

Seriously, this forum needs a good cleaning.
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QFT
 
finalgt said:
...say the guys with the "LOOK AT MY EPENIS" sigs.
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That wasn't directly aimed at me, but a lot of people, like myself, put our system specs in our sigs so that when we answer tech questions or talk about BIOS and RAM settings people have a frame of reference.
 
Lets stick with the topic at hand boys, and not whos sig make their epenis bigger. ;)
 
**Yawn**

Judging this console based on a couple of ported launch titles is just asinine. When you get hands on with the titles that are actually worthy of being called next-gen such as Perfect Dark 0 and Project Gotham 3 on kiosks that are set up by someone with an IQ higher than 80, let us know.

http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_1886_en.html

PD0; in-game video of the launch title. Easy difficulty, unfortunately. Bear in mind, launch title using 1 of 3 cores.
 
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