Google Tracks You with Location History Off

Joust said:
Yeah...but mostly, it's harmless. That's why there isn't a groundswell of people bitching about it.

Dude, look - conceptually I agree with you. However, there's a pragmatic issue here. ALL of this information is logged at some point. All of it. That ship has long-since sailed.

Hell. There are logs of this very discussion. There are logs of me LOOKING at this discussion - and everyone else. I mean, seriously. The idea that you can manuver through all the infrastructure necessary to do the things we do today as a matter of course without putting out gobs of data? Harvestable, even for the most legit reasons, data.
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Exactly.

Logs exist. In the past - however - these logs languished on a server somewhere and were only ever looked at if something was wrong for troubleshooting purposes.

Now they are being actively analyzed with machine learning techniques, packaged up and shared with others (for a fee) and correlated with other databases and used to create profiles that can be used for some harmless but many harmful purposes.

This is the problem, and we have the power to completely end it through legislation and we should.

Yes, some businesses will be hurt badly by it. For most - however - this is just a small additive revenue on top of what they make from their main business, and they could either absorb the difference, or charge it forward by raising their prices by a percent or two.

II'd argue It's important enough to regain our privacy, that the cards may fall wherever they fall.

There's a shortage of software engineers as it is anyway, so if this results in some losing their jobs, they'll be quickly snapped up elsewhere.
 
kju1 said:
Go back to not being evil? I think I have a bridge for sale...

Google has always done what is in the best interest for Google.
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They weren't as evil.

Tell me more about your bridge though!
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
You'd literally need to completely go off the grid, not have a bank account and use only cash and become some sort of weirdo hermit.
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and live in a cave to avoid satellite surveillance.
we haven't had the internet/social media long enough that we cant go back living without. the twenty-somethings can learn some new-old skills..
 
and here we were thinking the only seriously dangerous tech concerns were robots and AI

pendragon1 said:
and live in a cave to avoid satellite surveillance.
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image.jpg
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
Exactly.

Logs exist. In the past - however - these logs languished on a server somewhere and were only ever looked at if something was wrong for troubleshooting purposes.

Now they are being actively analyzed with machine learning techniques, packaged up and shared with others (for a fee) and correlated with other databases and used to create profiles that can be used for some harmless but many harmful purposes.

This is the problem, and we have the power to completely end it through legislation and we should.

Yes, some businesses will be hurt badly by it. For most - however - this is just a small additive revenue on top of what they make from their main business, and they could either absorb the difference, or charge it forward by raising their prices by a percent or two.

II'd argue It's important enough to regain our privacy, that the cards may fall wherever they fall.

There's a shortage of software engineers as it is anyway, so if this results in some losing their jobs, they'll be quickly snapped up elsewhere.
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I get it.

All I'm saying is that as long as there has been interpersonal communication there has been someone listening in. Email. Before that: phone tap. Before that: telegraph tap. Before that: postal intercept. Before that: courier intercept etc etc back to the caveman that had his ear up on the wall to figure out where the mammoth is.

Most behavior is readily available from observation. Order a pizza? I know cause I can see the delivery guy. If it's DiGornio, I saw you buy that in the grocery store. When you're home or not? That is also easily observed.

There is, in my opinion, precious little new information here. It's just uniquely categorized and packaged to be of some use - and that's what makes people uncomfortable.
 
Joust said:
I get it.

All I'm saying is that as long as there has been interpersonal communication there has been someone listening in. Email. Before that: phone tap. Before that: telegraph tap. Before that: postal intercept. Before that: courier intercept etc etc back to the caveman that had his ear up on the wall to figure out where the mammoth is.

Most behavior is readily available from observation. Order a pizza? I know cause I can see the delivery guy. If it's DiGornio, I saw you buy that in the grocery store. When you're home or not? That is also easily observed.

There is, in my opinion, precious little new information here. It's just uniquely categorized and packaged to be of some use - and that's what makes people uncomfortable.
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Agreed. Some form of surveillance has always existed. In the past - however - it was very resource intensive. You had to have someone followed, a phone tap had to be listened to by someone. Someone had to actually search the paper records, compile them and create a report, etc. etc.

As a result, these kinds of activities were very expensive, and thus comparatively rare, only done when the information was if great value.

The average person was very rarely caught up in data collection. In fact, unless you were sought after in some sort of criminal investigation, or the target of some sort of government sanctioned espionage, you likely never had this issue.

Today, due to automated collection and analysis techniques they can do it to everyone all the time. And they do.
 
From the article:

“There are a number of different ways that Google may use location to improve people’s experience, including: Location History, Web and App Activity, and through device-level Location Services,” a Google spokesperson said in a statement to the AP. “We provide clear descriptions of these tools, and robust controls so people can turn them on or off, and delete their histories at any time.”

So Google knows better than you. "We will use your data even when you tell us not to because its actually our data."
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
The problem is that many of these services have become a social must in modern society. You can choose to not use them, but then you are also choosing to isolate yourself from modern society. It's not a real choice.
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A must? My phone's internet connection is off 98% of the time. It is only turned on when I need something. If someone wants to get in contact with me urgently they can use their phones as it was originally intended. ie: fucking dial my number. The shit that people post on social media is irrelevant. it's not time sensitive. I won't be the first to like something, well actually I won't be liking anything anyway. Social media has a single utility to me: arrange meetings in advance with multiple people. Which I do from home sitting in front of my computer. I can't be bothered to post from my phone.
 
I don't think this is actually news, as I've had web and app activity off for a couple years now. And the only reason I'd know to do it was because i searched how to shut off location tracking, and the extra step came up.

BB
 
BB Gun said:
I don't think this is actually news, as I've had web and app activity off for a couple years now. And the only reason I'd know to do it was because i searched how to shut off location tracking, and the extra step came up.

BB
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it still tracks you, gps ping and all that...
 
I understand that - but I can't find any history at all anywhere in my google account data.

Web/App activity: Paused
Location History: Paused
Device Information: Paused
Youtube Search History: Paused

Only actives are Voice & Audio Activity and Youtube Watch History
 
BB Gun said:
I understand that - but I can't find any history at all anywhere in my google account data.

Web/App activity: Paused
Location History: Paused
Device Information: Paused
Youtube Search History: Paused

Only actives are Voice & Audio Activity and Youtube Watch History
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its on their end, you cant see it.
 
BB Gun said:
Then how did the AP pull the history?
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I guess the ap finally managed to put two and two together...
"it" as in your phone, is what I meant. your gps location is still tracked by the providers system at a minimum, apps can/will do more. ive been arguing that if its online in any way, its being tracked in some way.
 
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Would this not be grounds for a major lawsuit? Hmm... well I'm curious if this also happens in the EU, cause that would be a major headache for them.
 
And yet when i lost my phone no one could help me find it. Or rather was willing to help me find it.
 
M76 said:
A must? My phone's internet connection is off 98% of the time. It is only turned on when I need something. If someone wants to get in contact with me urgently they can use their phones as it was originally intended. ie: fucking dial my number. The shit that people post on social media is irrelevant. it's not time sensitive. I won't be the first to like something, well actually I won't be liking anything anyway. Social media has a single utility to me: arrange meetings in advance with multiple people. Which I do from home sitting in front of my computer. I can't be bothered to post from my phone.
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As I explained previously, it's not just about Social media. Look at this post.
 
scojer said:
Google needs to go back to not being evil, and turning off location history should turn it off for everything.

Stupid apps - this is why I have next to nothing installed on my device, and don't carry it with me everywhere I go.
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Go back 15 years? Yeah...

I'd be willing to bet money the US government made them an offer they just couldn't refuse, even before that Eric Schmidt mofo took over for mosad
 
Simply stop using Google / Apple if it concerns that much. Buy a burner phone and leave it OFF when you go out, The bootup time is less than 5 seconds even from battery out to in. Heck, leave the battery out until you need the phone. If you need contact-ability leave the phone on, the cell tower has location but no tech company has that information to sell.

$15 and done. no personal tracking, but of course there are many other systems tracking you anyway outside ;)
 
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GoldenTiger said:
It isn't paranoia when it's real. So don't be flippant.
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Real only if you own one of the devices my friend. Don't assume all people live in the same reality these days. Two tin cans and a string work fine especially when you are old enough to see the end result coming when it all got started.
 
I think it's Google Play Services that is the culprit. I have location services turned off, but I still see it pinging every now and then. If I lock down the location permission for it, half the Google apps start glitching or complaining.

The wierd part is that even if Play Services gets a location fix, the next time I open Maps or Waze, it will start showing me at the place I was when I last shut Maps/Waze down, and not the more recent location of wherever the Play Services ping was.

I think the bigger issue is the nag screen Maps gives you, pretending you need to enable location for it to work. Enable that, and half the fucking apps I haven't locked down will start logging location and kill my battery in a day.
 
sad lol, CNN, FOX, BBC, Yahoo, Sky, Al-Qazeera = no news
CNBC = an article phrased like a self help piece
Ars = no news

RT yes, Wired yes

shows how opinion makers view this news...
 
Privacy doesn’t exist and Security is a superstition.
These guys want to track me no problem, as long as my drivers always work I don’t care
Someday I might get covered by snow from an avalanche while skiing.
Then Google can sell the rescue team my location.
It’s all good.
 
theBrownLlama said:
sad lol, CNN, FOX, BBC, Yahoo, Sky, Al-Qazeera = no news
CNBC = an article phrased like a self help piece
Ars = no news

RT yes, Wired yes

shows how opinion makers view this news...
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BBC mentioned it on their World News Hour on the radio yesterday evening.
 
Joust said:
Companies don't make you do anything. They offer you a service. Want it? The terms are what they are.
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"Google’s support page on the subject states: “You can turn off Location History at any time. With Location History off, the places you go are no longer stored.”"

Apparently, what applies to thee does not apply to me, in this case.
 
Joust said:
Besides, it's totally unworkable. Ok. Now Facebook costs $20 per month. Or $100. If it's a social requirement, as you say, they can charge a hell of a premium. You have to be very, very careful when imposing an artificial sea change among business models and practices. The consequences may be severe.
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Loss of any of such apps or services would NOT be severe.
 
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No surprise here... as anyone who's visited their headquarters knows, as soon as you enter the building "Every Breath You Take" starts playing from an unknown source and everyone looks like creepy sprites smiling straight towards you at all angles
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
You don't seem to get it. It's more than just social media. Every single service out there is collecting your data and trying to monetize it these days.

Have a cell phone? Even an old dumb flip phone? Your cell carrier is collecting and monetizing your location and call/text metadata.

Go even further? Do you have a smartphone? Any smartphone? It's probably listening to sounds around you and attempting to build a profile on you, even if you don't use any third party apps.

Ever go on the internet? Your ISP is tracking your metadata, and even attaching unique tracking information to every TCP packet leaving your home.

Your email provider is also collecting data from every email you send and receive.

Watch TV? Your cable box is collecting data on your viewing habits.

Want to partake in popular culture and stream shows from the likes of Netflix or other services? More data collection. Oh and the device or smart TV you use to stream that content is probably listening to you as well.

You can't even make a goddamned restaurant reservation many places without being tracked somehow these days.

Do you ever buy anything in a store? Unless you only use cash you are being tracked there as well.

Do you ever call a customer service line of any business? You know that statement about "this call may be recorded". Yeah, that's BS. Your call IS being recorded, and turned into speech to text data for collection and analysis, and it's not just for training their customer service representatives.

So no, it's not just about avoiding using social media. It's gotten to the point where it is so pervasive and built into everything that even a conscientious person trying to avoid being tracked could spend every waking hour researching and disabling things and would still be unable to prevent their data from being harvested by someone somewhere. You can't even avoid being tracked by the social media giants by not using social media. They are buying data on you from other sources too to complete their models.

And this article proves the point. Even if you think you are being proactive and disabling location history, you are still being tracked.

You'd literally need to completely go off the grid, not have a bank account and use only cash and become some sort of weirdo hermit.
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Even then they would know...they have satellites.
 
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