Google Employees Protest Work For the Pentagon

alamox said:
drone strike are never accurate, they kill dozens for 1 target, drone strikes have over 90% colateral, the fact that they are still practically the only weapon US uses is an aberation, and all it does is fuel hate, that US citizens will pay with their lives, and now google employees get close to the top , i don't know if it was a good idea to make the letter public, unless the project itself was already made public, because i didn't know about it.
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You should probably stick to commenting about other things. Stuff that you might have actual knowledge about.
 
Google already had products the military uses. Google Earth, Android, etc. Not sure how them working on making an AI changes anything.
 
Google doesn't know what it stands for.. probably selling most of our personal information as it is.. just like all the rest of em.
 
krotch said:
Google already had products the military uses. Google Earth, Android, etc. Not sure how them working on making an AI changes anything.
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now say.. there is a 3 letter org that needs to keep track of massive amounts of people and their data... ??WHO??.. has massive amounts of experience and expertise doing such???


hmmm.. let me ponder that one...

*strokes beard*
 
alamox said:
drone strike are never accurate, they kill dozens for 1 target, drone strikes have over 90% colateral, the fact that they are still practically the only weapon US uses is an aberation, and all it does is fuel hate, that US citizens will pay with their lives, and now google employees get close to the top , i don't know if it was a good idea to make the letter public, unless the project itself was already made public, because i didn't know about it.
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As opposed to random shelling, cluster bombs, daisy cutters or nukes?

The US makes more of an effort to avoid collateral damage than any country in history.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
They joined a company that was and is in bed with the government.

That's what makes this so retarded.
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I detest Google. No love for that company at all.

BUT, if they were so "in bed" with the government, then why would they need to spend more on lobbyists than all but one other company?

I think it is more appropriate to state they have more control over our government than most do. They probably know every dirty thing every politician has ever done. Ok, that last part came from my tin foil hat.
 
Drone strikes take care of the problem from thousands of miles away. They also help to eliminate future terrorists. I would like to see more of them and less boots on the ground. Hopefully, we can drone those rouge nations into submisson.
alamox said:
drone strike are never accurate, they kill dozens for 1 target, drone strikes have over 90% colateral, the fact that they are still practically the only weapon US uses is an aberation, and all it does is fuel hate, that US citizens will pay with their lives, and now google employees get close to the top , i don't know if it was a good idea to make the letter public, unless the project itself was already made public, because i didn't know about it.
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Google is just upset that the government is doing it before they can.
 
Cipix said:
Or, like the article says, they don't like the idea of the company shifting towards "defense" work.
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prava said:
You really can't see a moral dilemma by working for the military? Some people do, which is what is happening at Google.

Unless those complaining signed up for a job that explicitly stated that they would be working in military-related projects they have the right to protest.
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The reaction from the Google employees is likely based on the same motivations as these two posters. They, like many on the left, believe anything that assists in the defense of what they consider an illegitimate, stolen, vile, evil, racist, sexist nation to be offensive. So offensive in fact Prava believes there should be a specific legal notification to potential employees that the company employing them might provide goods or services to the military.
 
article said:
Both Google and the Pentagon said the company’s products would not create an autonomous weapons system that could fire without a human operator, a much-debated possibility using artificial intelligence.

But improved analysis of drone video could be used to pick out human targets for strikes, while also better identifying civilians to reduce the accidental killing of innocent people.
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This is a very good reason to be ON-BOARD with what they're doing.

another part of article said:
Google said the Pentagon was using “open-source object recognition software available to any Google Cloud customer” and based on unclassified data. “The technology is used to flag images for human review and is intended to save lives and save people from having to do highly tedious work,” the company said.
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Maybe they should step up and offer to do that job instead of complaining that AI is going to do it?
 
GlowingGhoul said:
The reaction from the Google employees is likely based on the same motivations as these two posters. They, like many on the left, believe anything that assists in the defense of what they consider an illegitimate, stolen, vile, evil, racist, sexist nation to be offensive. So offensive in fact Prava believes there should be a specific legal notification to potential employees that the company employing them might provide goods or services to the military.
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I like how you twist the words of other people to suit your needs, but I like it even more that you dare to put stickers on people according to what you believe they think about the situation.
 
Google employees don't want to put innocent drones in harm's way they'd rather send in soldiers.

That's pretty fucked up Google employees.
 
krotch said:
Google already had products the military uses. Google Earth, Android, etc. Not sure how them working on making an AI changes anything.
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Using existing products is different the actively developing new products directly for military use.
 
alamox said:
drone strike are never accurate, they kill dozens for 1 target, drone strikes have over 90% colateral, the fact that they are still practically the only weapon US uses is an aberation, and all it does is fuel hate, that US citizens will pay with their lives, and now google employees get close to the top , i don't know if it was a good idea to make the letter public, unless the project itself was already made public, because i didn't know about it.
Click to expand...


This is not an issue with the weapon system being a drone strike. It's an issue with Target Selection. The operator launches the missile from the drone, maintains a laser lock on the target throughout the missile flight until impact. The fact that the enemy target is at home at the time, or in some public space at the time, and others are injured or killed is not because we were using a drone and missile to kill him. It's because a decision to prosecute the target in that environment was made. You could have launched the same missile from an Attack Helicopter or a manned aircraft, or just dropped bombs from an aircraft, or hell, a Tomahawk Cruise missile from a warship off the coast. You do remember Qaddafi don't you?

And while drone strikes may have a high % of collateral deaths based on your source, they also have a high degree of success. And while the drone might kill more than just the target, not killing that target can easily cause more deaths that are just as innocent.

War is a nasty business all the way around. Our country is doing it this way, frankly, because this way is what the American people will allow. This is what they are willing to accept, the alternative is what we spend many years prior doing, sending our friends and family to deal with this in more personal ways, at far greater risk to American lives. You see the current conduct of this war as bad, that it will put other lives at risk, maybe, but sending our people over there will as well.

Now don't take this explanation as my being in favor of how things have gone, I am not. I feel the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan should have been short, sharp, and absolutely brutal, .......... and over. But hey, I'm not a General or a Politician. All I can do is add a different perspective for you to consider. Show you and others the other side of the coin, that your conclusions are not actually correct. They do not only fuel hate, and while they do take lives, they save other lives as well. Who do you think is more likely to help us end this? The people we kill by accident, (but spare should we stop the drone strikes), or the people we save and protect, by killing the terrorists who was attacking and killing them?

If your idea of this fight is that we are hunting down people who are planning the next 9/11 then this is about the smallest fraction of what is going on. The people we are targeting and killing are blowing up markets, schools, police stations, mosques, etc. It's not us in America pursuing a war only against people we think want to hurt us. It's us in America helping out others who are in conflict with their enemies who are killing them, and who have attacked us as well.

The US was attacked by Assad's troops and some "Russian Security Contractors" a couple of months ago. The US Commander on site called the Russian Military commander over there and was told that they were not his troops, so we killed a few hundred of them and suffered no casualties. Do you really think that those "contractors" were running around with Assad's boys and attacked the US positions and the Russian Government wasn't involved in some way? This i show close we are to actually going to war with Russia.

Your opinion is your own, I wouldn't want to take it from you. I only want you to base it on all the information available and not a select source representing who knows what. I mean if they aren't telling both sides of the story then how credible are they. And with a truly informed opinion, please do let your Reps and Senators know where you stand and speak your mind.
 
BSmith said:
BUT, if they were so "in bed" with the government, then why would they need to spend more on lobbyists than all but one other company?
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Because the government is a dirty hooker, not a classy lady. If you want to bed it, you better have your unmarked envelope full of lobbyists to place on the end table first.
 
GlowingGhoul said:
The reaction from the Google employees is likely based on the same motivations as these two posters. They, like many on the left, believe anything that assists in the defense of what they consider an illegitimate, stolen, vile, evil, racist, sexist nation to be offensive. So offensive in fact Prava believes there should be a specific legal notification to potential employees that the company employing them might provide goods or services to the military.
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You appear to enjoy putting words in people's mouths. Stop that nonsense.
 
prava said:
I like how you twist the words of other people to suit your needs, but I like it even more that you dare to put stickers on people according to what you believe they think about the situation.
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Cipix said:
You appear to enjoy putting words in people's mouths. Stop that nonsense.
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You guys are aware there are people in the world who simply cannot have a discussion, without relating it to politics, in some form. My mother-in-law is like that. Say "Hi" to her and her response might be, "Hummph,..typical right-wing bullshit!". That is just the way it is.
 
5150Joker said:
The better solution is for the US to get the fuck out of the mideast and mind its own business. See, no drone strikes needed. Or are we still worried about the ISIS boogeyman?
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Ha. They'll get out as soon as the oil... I mean the locals start acting like grown ups!
 
I protest Google making war weapons not because they are war weapons, but because Google has a terrible track record getting anything out of beta stage. It will be a money sink for my tax dollars.
 
Master_shake_ said:
Google employees don't want to put innocent drones in harm's way they'd rather send in soldiers.

That's pretty fucked up Google employees.
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Should we force them to do it now? Fire them, right? Make private citizens and companies do the bidding of the Government because they asked.
But at the same time, I'm sure you want to keep the NSA from hacking your PC and private accounts using tools Google created.

The American citizen of today doesn't know what the hell they want. Do nothing and do everything possible at the same time.
 
seanreisk said:
Replace 'drone strike' with 'warfare', and you've got an accurate picture............
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I would like to add something to this, many times people who have no real idea what modern warfare is like have inaccurate ideas in their heads. Actual war footage rarely shows the full scope of how a Military like ours actually prosecutes conventional warfare. A combined arms live fire exercise can be an eye opener.



Now this one is very old, but it was the best I found where the camera spends enough time focused on the target of the attack and not just showing pictures of weapons firing. Bombers, fighter bombers, attack helicopters and other gunships, artillery and rocket launcher systems, tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, all alternate and take turns not only attacking the actual target, but even suspected enemy positions in the area around or beyond the target. Combined arms warfare is not surgical by any means, it's a brutal hammer.

Understand that if civilians are unable to leave areas where the enemy is located, it's going to be very hard on them, survival is not likely.

When you say that you don't want drone strikes, this is the alternative, not Harry Krishna love and tenderness.

Again, I am not arguing, I believe you yourself understand this. I am adding this to your post to give others a better idea of the way things are.

They may think these things didn't happen in Iraq and Afghanistan but they did. The actual warfare we conducted in the early years were like this. Latter, the wars were declared over and the mission transitioned to a nation building support and development mission. The war on terror continued as it does today.

I just think people need to have a realistic view of what they are asking for on this subject.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Should we force them to do it now? Fire them, right? Make private citizens and companies do the bidding of the Government because they asked.
But at the same time, I'm sure you want to keep the NSA from hacking your PC and private accounts using tools Google created.

The American citizen of today doesn't know what the hell they want. Do nothing and do everything possible at the same time.
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Funny I didnt know drones get to tell the boss what to do.

Google took on the contract it's employees do the work or get you know fired.
 
The apple has indeed fallen far from the tree.

https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/us-home-front-during-world-war-ii

the U.S. was thrust into World War II (1939-45), and everyday life across the country was dramatically altered. Food, gas and clothing were rationed. Communities conducted scrap metal drives. To help build the armaments necessary to win the war, women found employment as electricians, welders and riveters in defense plants.
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I suppose it's just human nature. In WW2 Americans actually feared attacks on the country, Hawaii had been bombed so it certainly was possible. Fearing for your life can have an impact on people.

So what does that say for today? Is it that we have different standards on what we will tolerate or support? Or is it that our country has provided security to a degree that people can't believe they would ever be at risk of attack by another country, so they now feel that fighting wars with others is dirty ?

Maybe.
 
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rgMekanic said:
I wish I could ban you for 24 hours for reminding me of that fucking abortion of a movie. ;)
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The Robocop reboot was awesome. Not as good as the original, but still good in its own right. The PG-13 rating held it back.
 
Armenius said:
The Robocop reboot was awesome. Not as good as the original, but still good in its own right. The PG-13 rating held it back.
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1518476764065.gif
 
Master_shake_ said:
Funny I didnt know drones get to tell the boss what to do.

Google took on the contract it's employees do the work or get you know fired.
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Did you know military drones were approved to be used on American soil by Congress?
Don't think drones were created just to kill a people on the other side of the world that doesn't share your values. They can also put down any domestic civil unrest.

Just because a person had sex with their partner for years, doesn't mean they should be comfortable in taking a broom stick up the ass when asked. The employees don't want the broom stick.
You as a private citizen can't tell private companies how to treat their employees.

Killing, no matter how justified, isn't fashionable to the wide majority of people.
 
BSmith said:
You guys are aware there are people in the world who simply cannot have a discussion, without relating it to politics, in some form. My mother-in-law is like that. Say "Hi" to her and her response might be, "Hummph,..typical right-wing bullshit!". That is just the way it is.
Click to expand...

The funny part is that I never stated whether I have a moral dilemma with this or not, I simply stated the possibility that some people might, which is why people at Google are complaining.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Did you know military drones were approved to be used on American soil by Congress?
Don't think drones were created just to kill a people on the other side of the world that doesn't share your values. They can also put down any domestic civil unrest.

Just because a person had sex with their partner for years, doesn't mean they should be comfortable in taking a broom stick up the ass when asked. The employees don't want the broom stick.
You as a private citizen can't tell private companies how to treat their employees.

Killing, no matter how justified, isn't fashionable to the wide majority of people.
Click to expand...


Unarmed drones dude, unarmed drones.

Of course the people writing the news aren't going to clue you in on that distinction because it wouldn't stoke the flames of ire.
 
lcpiper said:
I would like to add something to this, many times people who have no real idea what modern warfare is like have inaccurate ideas in their heads. Actual war footage rarely shows the full scope of how a Military like ours actually prosecutes conventional warfare. A combined arms live fire exercise can be an eye opener.



Now this one is very old, but it was the best I found where the camera spends enough time focused on the target of the attack and not just showing pictures of weapons firing. Bombers, fighter bombers, attack helicopters and other gunships, artillery and rocket launcher systems, tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, all alternate and take turns not only attacking the actual target, but even suspected enemy positions in the area around or beyond the target. Combined arms warfare is not surgical by any means, it's a brutal hammer.

Understand that if civilians are unable to leave areas where the enemy is located, it's going to be very hard on them, survival is not likely.

When you say that you don't want drone strikes, this is the alternative, not Harry Krishna love and tenderness.

Again, I am not arguing, I believe you yourself understand this. I am adding this to your post to give others a better idea of the way things are.

They may think these things didn't happen in Iraq and Afghanistan but they did. The actual warfare we conducted in the early years were like this. Latter, the wars were declared over and the mission transitioned to a nation building support and development mission. The war on terror continued as it does today.

I just think people need to have a realistic view of what they are asking for on this subject.
Click to expand...


catch22 - you are ofcourse right. people want the good but not the bad that comes with it
 
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dgz said:
For all its faults, the Robocop reboot explored the reality where AI is actually better even than the cyborg. These things are too good. Last thing we need is anyone unleashing swarms of these things upon somebody else.
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Dude, they aren't talking about putting the AI into the drone, (of course that could happen in the future). They are talking about using AI to Analyze imagery data, and that better analysis of this data could improve such things as drone strikes, etc.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I had a conversation with a foreign friend- never been to the US, never been involved with any military- that described our use of drones as 'terrorizing'. I have no doubt that their perspective is grounded in fact, and that the protesting Google employees also feel similarly.

But for US and allied troops on the ground, drones are warm and fuzzy. Hard to complain about HQ watching over your shoulder in unfriendly territory, ready to send 500lb care packages if you find trouble.
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I'll doubt it for you.

Have you ever lived in a war zone?

So while I was in Iraq working there on contract, I lived on a Forward Area Base (FOB Falcon) to be precise, and every few days it would be attacked. Now it wasn't all the time and mostly, it wasn't very vigorous, it's just that once in awhile, a mortar round or two, or maybe a rocket, would fall from the sky and go boom somewhere on the base. It really felt like a random sort of thing. But the thing of it is, you learn to be very pragmatic and accepting of it all because you can't do anything about it. Heck, you can't even run from it because it's like one boom and it's over so it either is going to kill you or it won't.

Now later in my time there this Sheik was arrested, it's was a fuck up on our Army's fault, but it pissed off this Sheik's boys and we started catching hell, like strings of 12 to 14 mortar rounds in a row, boom boom boom boom boom ..... Now that, I can say, is worrisome. That can get to your nerves really quick. An occasion boom once in a blue moon you can't do anything about, that's like mother nature, but repeated attacks that are intense, the stuff of terror.

Your foreign friend's terror isn't grounded in any real experience it sounds like, so it's a nebulous unreal thing, something that people who have too much time to think about sometimes waste time thinking about.

So this is how I think about it, and it's grounded in fact, not perceived fantasy.

And we don't use drones to attack targets when we have boots on the ground that can do it instead. We use drones where it's not easy to send the troops. Because if troops are on the ground, the Air Force is in the air, and drone strikes are great for blowing up hadji in his hut, but airplanes can hang around awhile and not shoot their entire load in one go.

Most military drones are not armed to begin with.
 
As an engineer, I've worked in both defense and medical. One industry finds ways to kill people and blow shit up, the other one tends towards saving lives. In the calculus of where I stand on the ethical or philosophical notions of one industry being better over the other, I'm in the camp that says, "Just fucking pay me."

Thank you.
 
Gottfried Leibnizzle said:
Those "uber snowflakes" are:

1) much smarter than you.
2) create important things that you use everyday.
3) much, much, smarter than you.
4) much, much, MUCH smarter than you.
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Nice.
Smarter at certain things at least. But wisdom has more value. As Socrates said, "I know that I don't know." Often times it's the smart people who have a harder time understanding their own flaws and weaknesses. Also, a balanced life is more enjoyable in the long term.
 
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