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Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Aug 5, 2017.
Superior ability breeds superior ambition.
The worst part about this sort of policy usually isn't discriminating on hires all the time. It's when you hire 10 people based on their resumes, then for the remaining 5 the boss realises "shit, we need to catch up on our diversity" and you get a whole bunch of people in a row who don't even have to be remotely close with their qualifications, just the right shape or colour etc.
I guess the idea is to train hiring committees to put a weighting on diversity hires who are fairly close with their qualifications, out of fear of completely losing any say for the next ones.
I'm kinda agreeing with this dude. Now let me build a bunker to hide from the SJWs, people who got their jobs because of racial quotas, or some fat chick who i had to do all the heavy lifting for cause she's a girl but got the job because she is a girl and didn't know her @$$ from a device driver yet got paid more than me...sorry did that slip out.
Where do I apply I would definitely fill their quota
Read the "manifesto" (note the wording to spin him as a crazy racist?). He is completely 100% right on the money. It is an articulate write up of the current state of the entire tech industry. Many of these companies are happy to let product quality die so long as their diversity targets are hit.
in the UK here insurance companies are not allowed to use gender to base on how much they charge for insurance now (so instead of avenging the prices out they just simply charged females more now so making more money cida win win for insurance companies really) as we be out of the EU there meddling should stop but every thing likely going to cost us more
And get off my lawn, er, I mean don't forget to hire old people too.
Mhm, and how shitty is your work as a group from now versus previously?
What? Are you saying we shouldn't segregate eachother into groups a'la "Black lives matter", "Black Television", "Black Magazine", "Black Employee Network" or "Women's employee Network" ?
Are you saying we should just have a... *gasp* employee network?
Get out good sir. Your logic and reasoning have no place here.
What's funny is of the men and women I know at Google, they are all nearly exactly the opposite of this guy's claim. The women are the "tech people" and the men are the "people people." This guy is an idiot for over-generalizing everything and making his manifesto based on that overgeneralization.
The guy is mostly right. In the long run, these policies are non-starters; like affirmative action and demographic replacement, they will not really do what they are intended to do at face value. But, who cares? We'll all eventually be dead, anyway. Fuck it.
Minorities should not have special privilege. As plenty of other people said, "It's based on merit" You want the most capable person in that job. That said if two equally skilled programmers are up for a job and one is a minority that is under represented, I'm going with the minority. That has only happened once.
If they are a public company and not private you could go with a reverse discrimination lawsuit and claim a hostile workplace environment. HR needs to be very careful with such things.
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations is true. It is proven by many studies how diversity benefits a company. However you also want the most competent person working the job. If you want a person designing a widget for a living, I want someone who is an expert at designing widgets. I don't want someone who's an expert at designing thinga-ma-bobs.
I'll just leave this here.
Agreed. It's highly likely that any woman who gets hired at Google, is VERY interested in engineering etc etc. Even if they're technically an outlier amongst the rest of women, I'm sure they're plenty capable. As long as Google or any other company, doesn't lower their standards for the sake of hiring anybody, then it's a non-issue.
I tell you what....You want more capable minorities in women in tech, get women in the hotseat when local schools come calling. Get them to explain to girls early on that being smart and a techie is cool, and even desirable. Start at that level. Encourage them to take programming, physics, and advanced math classes. You really do have to start at that level.
So I took the time to read this mans manifesto and honestly.... it's very well written makes some well reasoned points and it certainly does not seem like he is advocating for discrimination against any group. This seems an awful lot like he is pointing out that there are meaningful biological differences between gender groups that may lead to under representation of those groups in certain fields and he is just being shit on for it.
The man that wrote that manifesto is not some racist sexist pig. He acknowledges that women are less represented in the tech field and simply posits that there could be an alternate explanation beyond just "institutional discrimination" and people just go apeshit on him like he's the new George Wallace.
Again these are the kind of things that make it impossible for me to identify as a liberal anymore.
Petty ass shit. Just do the job and stfu or move on. Oh there might be tears. Dude is breaking my heart.
ya a couple of BS incidents means there is no problems.
One conservative does something it's not representative of all conservatives
One non conservative does something and it means they are all filthy commies that hate America.
This country is doomed. The delusions of conservatives will seal it.
I feel like a lot of people posting didn't actually take the time to read what the guy wrote. It's pretty well reasoned, my only complaint is that I wish he had more sources to asctually back his assertions (granted people on the other side generally lack sources as well but that just drives home the point that most of this debate is not based on hard facts and solid research). People keep acting like this man is advocating against hiring women but if you actually read what he wrote that is not true, he is basically just saying hey there are fewer women in tech because fewer women are interested in tech it's silly to lower the bar or try to force people in to careers they are not interested in just to create artificial parity within an organization (Google).
also could we maybe change the tag line to somthing a little less clickbaity it's not an anti-diversity manifesto it's just a statement on elements of google's corporate culture that this guy disagrees with.
I would have no problems with those groups if they are open too all, and as long as they aren't hostile. It sounds like google has programs that segregate and exclude.
Oh please. According to the left every white male is some bigoted sexist, racist, that needs to be punished for something.
Yes and no. Hiring based solely on merit is optimal choice for selecting an *individual*. However, companies usually don't hire a single person who plugs away on their own in a vacuum, especially not collaborative fields like engineering. A *team* works better with some level of diversity. Not necessarily sex or racial diversity, but diversity of thought. One person can come up with an idea that a hundred others don't, at least not right away. You don't know your blindspots unless you've got someone else that can see them.
It just so happens that people of different genders/race also think differently. Since HR people are the laziest people on earth, that becomes the effective proxy for diversity of thought.
The central issue here, the one that this guy doesn't get, is the difference between hiring the best person and building the best team. You can't build a football team by cloning Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady 11 times each, even though they're probably the two best players in the game.
Not at all reality.
Right wing media has pushed a false narrative to the point many conservatives actually believe it. The war on white men is a complete myth. False self righteous grievances have taken over conservatism and handed the country over to silliness. For fuck's sake your nonsense has pushed the DOJ into inserting itself into college admissions practices. It's gone beyond silliness.
There is also no war on Christmas, or a war on Christians, or war on whatever coming from the left. The left that has been powerless in this country for the most part for decades. Relax, nothing bad is going to happen to us white guys.
Cuck says a lot of words to heroically display his understanding of gender and lib-splain why unqualified people should be hired over qualified people and that white guys in tech with ability should just STFU or be escorted from the building and have their personal items mailed to them.
cuck and libsplain
and you folks wonder why people talk shit.
I'm pretty sure you don't believe in The Lord so I would appreciate it if you would keep him out of this.
ya god forbid he see you acting like that.
I think as a whole, if you had read the entire 10 pages you would have realized that he is basing the opinions has has listed, which he asserts may not be correct and that he may be experiencing confirmation bias, on the simple belief that hiring someone based on their sex, race, etc. etc.. is actually biased and unethical in a more pronounced way than actually promoting diversity. Thats it. Nothing more.
Also, if you had read what he actually wrote, he emphasizes that by TECH he is mainly speaking of software engineering, while also emphasizing that men like things, and women like people, thus more men are in solo jobs like software engineering, and women are in more jobs that require working with multiple people most of the time.
Most of you just need to go read the entire thing before coming up with any attempt at a coherent opinion, its not a new belief and would actually, based on prior rulings, be something that the supreme court might actually consider hearing as it pertains to equal rights...with the right case of course.
The more diverse a group of people is the less they get along, and the more different needs they have. So in reality the best team is made of people with similar interests and work ethics. And I speak from experience here.
The best measurement of diversity of thinking is not age / gender / sex, or any of those meaningless (from an efficiency standpoint) characteristics. But background. What type of work experience the candidate has, what schools he attended, how well traveled the person is, and did he work on a single project his entire career, or did he have to solve a variety of challenges.
Either way diversity of thought is actually hated by regressive people.
Oh no's that huge right wing media boggy monster. The left controls the media, the left controls education, and yet the left whines about 1 or 2 networks that dare not tow the lefts line.
And yes, according to the left white men are the devil.
How many on the left would allow a place to remain open if it charged women or minorities more then men?
And yet they are allowing the opposite to happen.
So I read that fine gentlemans response and he clearly did not read the original "manifesto". Yontan Zunger argues that the manifesto author damaged his workplace by stating that his colleagues did not actually have the skills to perform their job. If Mr. Zunger had actually read the manifesto he would know that the author never implied that, at most he questioned the efficacy of programs designed to specifically promote one group of people over another (which you would thinks is something any liberal would be against), but he never implied that his co-workers who happen to be members of those groups were unqualified.
Once again it's just a kneejerk rush to label anyone who does not fall in line with the White men are the oppressors narrative a racist and a bigot, instead of actually listening to what someone has to say.
The entire discrimination in the name of diversity topic is pretty multi-faceted and complex. There are good arguments for and against. All things considered, the guy supports his position fairly well.
What I find more interesting is the response to the memo. The vilification and hate, the various people, even his own co-workers, that are going after his job. The author didn't say anything barbarous, and in fact made some good arguments on an important topic. Even if you disagree with him, this area could use healthy debate. It's not as if we're dealing with a binary choice, so it's a good idea to try to pin down exactly where along the gradient to stake a claim.
The general attitude of the response so far does a good job of showing the general left-leaning bias of the media, at least the portions of which report on this sort of thing, as well as the unfortunate authoritarian streak that is currently plaguing the left. The authoritarians can't help but to take everything too far, and everyone else overcompensates against it, leading to situations like a Trump presidency.
Unfortunately, this state of affairs is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. The biggest fear is that, if the left continues unabated in this feedback loop of increasing intolerance, the world will end up being run, almost exclusively, by the worst kind of right wing governments in response.
LOL, where do you guys get your "scientific" information from? Standing in line at the supermarket?
Well said man. As someone who used to identify as liberal I believe the left has left has lost touch with normal people in a misguided quest to make sure that every single person on earth is protected from anything that could offend them and the end result is normal people are pushed right of center and the people who were already on the right are pushed even farther to the right giving us people like Alex Jones and Fred Phelps; and elevating people like Steve Bannon to positions where they hold very scary amounts of very real power over policies that effect the life of every day Americans.
better question is where do you? SJW-u?
"How early are such sex differences in empathy evident? Certainly, by 12 months of age, girls make more eye contact than boys. But a study from Cambridge University shows that at birth, girls look longer at a face, and boys look longer at a suspended mechanical mobile. Furthermore, the Cambridge team found that how much eye contact children make is in part determined by a biological factor, prenatal testosterone. This has been demonstrated by measuring this hormone in amniotic fluid"
I have a doctorate degree from UC Irvine and my wife has her master's. You can look up whether UC Irvine is considered a liberal bastion and whether our neurosciences are something that you think might be more "scientific" than this shit you quoted. Generally, I prefer to read well-cited, peer reviewed research which this paper has none and isn't.
Everything you quoted, and the subsequent paragraph claiming boys are more interested in toys and systems, is purely opinion. That's why he doesn't provide a reference, which is essential in scientific discussions. He then makes a ridiculous leap of logic from what toddlers do in their sandboxes to adults in the workplace. Why would you think that's "science" other than the fact that it simply confirms your assumptions? You topping it off with an ad hominem seems fitting.
Examples of this stuff are endless, pretty sure it is real, especially the videos.
Conference teaches K-12 educators how to combat ‘whiteness in schools’
Evergreen College 'Black Power'
It’s time to take the curriculum back from dead white men