Google Designing Its Own Server Chips?

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Honestly, I think it is probably a good idea to leave making processors to the pros and stick with what you know best. What do you guys think about Google wanting to make a processor?

By using its own designs, Google could better manage the interactions between hardware and software, said the person, who asked not to be identified because the matter is private. Google, among the largest buyers of server processors, has made no decision and plans could change, said the person.
Click to expand...
 
Well, it definitely can't be x86. From people on [H] have been saying, it's a steep climb and very difficult to get an x86 license today. Hence, only VIA, AMD, and Intel are the only ones making x86 processors.

It has to be ARM-based if they're planning to make their own server processors, but most likely in non-data intensive, non-computationally intensive environments I guess. And, ARM has been readying/planning server-class ARM cores lately such as the A53. I know Google has been doing what it can to reduce power usage at their datacenters and be more "environmentally friendly." A low-powered ARM processor might do the trick.
 
I don't think they would need a license. They can have one of the manufacturers create modified designs. They probably aren't looking for a whole new architecture, perhaps just some tweaks for their specific needs.
 
No thanks. I don't need yet another reason for Google to be nagging me to install Google Drive and other useless shit of theirs
 
octoberasian said:
It has to be ARM-based if they're planning to make their own server processors, but most likely in non-data intensive, non-computationally intensive environments I guess. And, ARM has been readying/planning server-class ARM cores lately such as the A53. I know Google has been doing what it can to reduce power usage at their datacenters and be more "environmentally friendly." A low-powered ARM processor might do the trick.
Click to expand...

It could be POWER - they could partner with IBM or *gasp* Motorola. It could be MIPS. I wonder how much it would cost to buy Cavium...
 
lol I like the evidence from the article: a job opening for a digital design engineer. Not that designing a chip, or even just assembling IP for a SoC, requires a whole design team of engineers who specialize in a particular architecture. :p Going by job openings, if Google were to design a chip, it would be very obvious and not ridiculously dumb like that Bloomberg article writer.
 
Google is starting to sound a lot like Sun of old.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
Processor designed for servers?

Itanium. '

'Nough Said.
Click to expand...

you are brining them up in a good way or a bad way?

pxc said:
lol I like the evidence from the article: a job opening for a digital design engineer. Not that designing a chip, or even just assembling IP for a SoC, requires a whole design team of engineers who specialize in a particular architecture. :p Going by job openings, if Google were to design a chip, it would be very obvious and not ridiculously dumb like that Bloomberg article writer.
Click to expand...

Where is the fun in having a full team when you can get one super engineer :)
 
octoberasian said:
Well, it definitely can't be x86. From people on [H] have been saying, it's a steep climb and very difficult to get an x86 license today. Hence, only VIA, AMD, and Intel are the only ones making x86 processors.

It has to be ARM-based if they're planning to make their own server processors, but most likely in non-data intensive, non-computationally intensive environments I guess. And, ARM has been readying/planning server-class ARM cores lately such as the A53. I know Google has been doing what it can to reduce power usage at their datacenters and be more "environmentally friendly." A low-powered ARM processor might do the trick.
Click to expand...

Not like they couldn't just buy VIA if they wanted to. Or just have Inte/ or AMD make the chips for them. Or if they're just making it for themselves they don't really need a license.
 
Honestly, I think it is probably a good idea to leave making processors to the pros and stick with what you know best.
Click to expand...

Such brilliant, in-depth analysis ;)
 
Google has billions of dollars in cold hard cash with billions more coming in, 5 - 6 billion alone from Youtube revenue in 2013 from a report I read today.

I think it's fair to say they can afford to hire out the right people and build a world class server chip. This could also be nothing more than saber rattling to get chip supplies to lower their prices.
 
Considering that Google has more money than Intel and AMD combined I'd venture to say that they can afford to design a processor. Possibly even a decent one.
 
bexamous said:
Not like they couldn't just buy VIA if they wanted to. Or just have Inte/ or AMD make the chips for them. Or if they're just making it for themselves they don't really need a license.
Click to expand...
That is true.

Intel could fab and design them the CPUs since Intel has already started doing that recently.

AMD has already started offering custom Jaguar SoCs to OEMs, and I'm sure Opteron would be offered.

Via is another likely candidate.

If Google follows Apple's footsteps, then they'd probably design their own processors in-house like Apple and their Ax SoCs. They have the money to do so anyway.
 
Jon55 said:
No thanks. I don't need yet another reason for Google to be nagging me to install Google Drive and other useless shit of theirs
Click to expand...

I'm sure this post has something to do with something.
 
Steve said:
Honestly, I think it is probably a good idea to leave making processors to the pros and stick with what you know best. What do you guys think about Google wanting to make a processor?
Click to expand...

Pretty sure when it comes to data centers Google *IS* the expert.

I kind of doubt that Google is doing this, but on the other hand they already make their own motherboards, power supplies, networking equipment, etc... for their servers. Tossing in their own CPU wouldn't be *THAT* much of a stretch.
 
I'm really thinking its going to be ARM based because they have a great performance level in comparison to wattage used and heat dissipated.
Think about it, Android is Google's big OS and damn near everything it runs on is ARM. We're basically beta testing for Google every time we buy Android smartphones. Don't get me wrong, I love my Android, but its pretty easy to see it happening.
I think Google has plans to switch over to more efficient servers in its future so it can provide more services and reduce its costs in one swoop.
 
SGA76 said:
I'm really thinking its going to be ARM based because they have a great performance level in comparison to wattage used and heat dissipated.
Think about it, Android is Google's big OS and damn near everything it runs on is ARM. We're basically beta testing for Google every time we buy Android smartphones. Don't get me wrong, I love my Android, but its pretty easy to see it happening.
I think Google has plans to switch over to more efficient servers in its future so it can provide more services and reduce its costs in one swoop.
Click to expand...

I think it's ARM as well. Google needs raw I/O more than they need processing power. If anyone has ever seen their own little server rack setups, it makes sense.

Uz8iQeH.jpg
 
Doesn't google own motorola? How is this out of line for them to come up with their own chips?
 
The article said ARM.

Google Inc. (GOOG) is considering designing its own server processors using technology from ARM Holdings Plc (ARM), said a person with knowledge of the matter, a move that could threaten Intel Corp. (INTC)’s market dominance.
Click to expand...
 
Yea I could see an ARM server being made, and I'm sure google has the funds to do it.
 
SGA76 said:
I'm really thinking its going to be ARM based because they have a great performance level in comparison to wattage used and heat dissipated.
Think about it, Android is Google's big OS and damn near everything it runs on is ARM. We're basically beta testing for Google every time we buy Android smartphones. Don't get me wrong, I love my Android, but its pretty easy to see it happening.
I think Google has plans to switch over to more efficient servers in its future so it can provide more services and reduce its costs in one swoop.
Click to expand...

THIS :D
 
An ARM SoC can fully max out a 1Gbps ethernet connection* whilst using less power and making less heat.

*In Apache

So they are already better then Xeons for web servers.
 
I think its a fair assumption its going to be ARM.
ARM is turning into a kind of an amazing tech. I mean x86 dead in 20 for real? Gotta wonder, its seems there is only more growth in sight for ARM devices. Could they be purchased by say Intel, and promptly be moved to limit licensing and be made more expensive I wonder (?).

I am not sure VIA's x86 licenses are transferable, not even sure if AMD's are either, probably not without Intel's approval, which I don't see why that would happen.
 
Uvaman said:
I think its a fair assumption its going to be ARM.
ARM is turning into a kind of an amazing tech. I mean x86 dead in 20 for real? Gotta wonder, its seems there is only more growth in sight for ARM devices. Could they be purchased by say Intel, and promptly be moved to limit licensing and be made more expensive I wonder (?).

I am not sure VIA's x86 licenses are transferable, not even sure if AMD's are either, probably not without Intel's approval, which I don't see why that would happen.
Click to expand...

The EU or UK gov would never allow ARM to be purchased by a foreign company such as Intel.

ARM are too valuable to the EU and UK economies as well as all the work they do with UK universities.

ARM has been pretty amazing for the past 20 years as well, its just the need for ARM CPUs has never been greater then their use in mobiles.
 
More high end players will be good for us long term. Goggle may never ship anything in volume, the threat though could push some competition.

This could also be part of a long term plan to go after lower end markets. If they get the right licence deals they could do an end run at some point at X86 if they needed to with a transmeta like software solution. The hardwware was lacking for that 10 years ago, these days though I think it could be pulled off very nicely. Could be a well schemed plan. Server ships in 3 years... low end (x86 emulation if needed) low enders later.
 
Sorry Google, GPU is already a taken term... No Google Processing Unit for you! :p
 
Steve said:
Honestly, I think it is probably a good idea to leave making processors to the pros and stick with what you know best.
Click to expand...

I think this might be one of the most short-sighted statements ever posted on a forum that seems to revel in short-sighted statements.

Apple makes its own chips, with other mobile vendors like Samsung set to follow their lead (nothing new there.) Square now makes its own chips for its payment devices. Making your own chip is now a competitive advantage and a skill that is on the rise. More and more companies will begin making their own chips.

This is why Intel is making a big deal about trying to manufacture chips for others, instead of simply selling them something off the shelf designed by committee three years ago.
 
Terpfen said:
Apple makes its own chips
Click to expand...
Apple purchased an established company (Intrinsity) with an ARM design license, dozens of experienced engineers, even more experienced partners and many years of experience developing ARM and other chips. Google isn't just going to hire an ASIC design engineer and willy-nilly decide to make custom ARM chips that are customized to the loads Google runs, despite what that silly article claimed.

If the goal is to just license an ARM core, like most companies do, there's little point to that either. There are many ARM chip vendors who already do that, and it wouldn't cost Google as much to just buy those chips instead of trying to make its own for the exact same performance.
 
Google is in the enviable position that they have more cash on hand than they know what to spend it on, so investigating if projects lie this make financial sense for them is only natural.

I - for one - wish they would use all that cash to mass roll out Google Fiber to all markets instead, but that's just me :p
 
Google's softwares are average at best. It is bucky and slow. I have my doubts about quality of google's hardware.
 
pxc said:
Apple purchased an established company (Intrinsity) with an ARM design license, dozens of experienced engineers, even more experienced partners and many years of experience developing ARM and other chips. Google isn't just going to hire an ASIC design engineer and willy-nilly decide to make custom ARM chips that are customized to the loads Google runs, despite what that silly article claimed.

If the goal is to just license an ARM core, like most companies do, there's little point to that either. There are many ARM chip vendors who already do that, and it wouldn't cost Google as much to just buy those chips instead of trying to make its own for the exact same performance.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of how Apple started their chip design process. The point remains that they do it, that other companies are starting to do it, and it's going to only increase as time goes on.
 
CombatChrisNC said:
Doesn't AMD have plans to make both custom x86, x64, and ARM chips?
Click to expand...

AMD have been developing ARM chips for years now, they are releasing ARM Opterons next year.

AMD have 16 core ARM 64bit CPUs running at 2.0Ghz, with native 10Gbps ethernet and only 30W of power usage.

They beat Intel Xeons in Apache performance as Xeons don't have 10Gbps ethernet native.

ARM cpus are very good at Apache thanks to how simple it is, ARM is the future of web hosting.
 
elzeus said:
Does it need to be x86 if it's going to just run linux?
Click to expand...
If it's going to run Linux-based distros, it doesn't matter, of course.

However, I was speaking in terms of trying to acquire an x86 license nowadays from Intel. A few other [H] users here a few years ago mentioned that anyone or any company wanting to make their own processors and have them use an x86 instruction set would be absurdly difficult to do. Intel is the roadblock so-to-speak, or the gate guard, before you can get an x86 license to make your own processors. It'll also be incredibly difficult to enter the x86 market given that the "Goliath"-- Intel-- and "David"-- AMD-- are probably the only two major players in the x86 market. VIA plays a very small role. There is a lot of investment and R&D costs associated with making an x86 processor that it'd be very difficult for a startup to do. Google may have the money to do it, and it "might" work for them if they just make processors for themselves. However, I just don't see Google designing an x86 processor given that the licensing alone would be the major hurdle. Even Nvidia couldn't get an x86 license.

Google could easily buy out AMD or VIA if they wanted to. Unfortunately, for AMD, anyone that buys them, their x86-license is non-transferrable. It pretty much becomes voided once a company purchases AMD.

Why?

The court decision that was settled several years ago between AMD and Intel, where Intel paid AMD $1.25 billion, was that if AMD ever goes under, their x86 license dies with it in an agreement with Intel. In other words, the purchaser does not gain the license and would have to apply for one themselves.

(Nice summary slide from Berkley: http://are.berkeley.edu/~sberto/AMDIntel.pdf)

(There is also a PDF file of the court decision floating around the Internet that even states this in legalese speak.)

I don't know if this applies to VIA but I've never seen VIA's x86 licensing terms with Intel. But, I wouldn't be surprised that's also the same case as AMD.

So, the only logical way for Google to have their own custom-design-- possibly in-house-- would be to go ARM-based. ARM is already offering or will offer server-class ARM cores like the A53 I mentioned earlier. Another core they could use are the A57 as well. Both are 64-bit capable processor cores. This is the best option for Google if they want to design their own server processors.

If that is too difficult to do, they could easily go to Intel for their Atom-based server processors or AMD's own low-powered APU server processors. They are the next option above ARM. Or, they can go to a pre-made ARM server processor such as the one from Calxeda-- ECX-2000 SoC.

But, designing their own x86 server processor is definitely not an option. If they want to go down that route, AMD offers OEMs to license their Jaguar cores in their own SoC designs like they have done with Microsoft and Sony for their consoles-- XONE and PS4, respectively. That's also another option. but acquiring an x86 license and making their own x86 server processors is definitely out of the question.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top