Google Bans Crypto Ads

BSmith

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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1,323
I'm a miner and I don't have an attitude, other than being pissed off about gamers hating me. I've never seen soooo many posts about people hating other people. Are most gamers so hateful? I'm a gamer (also) and I don't hate people for this. I don't really think I hate anyone. I'm sure if I knew someone who committed certain crimes (no need to mention) I'd hate them.

Honestly... It is unfortunate, but [H]ardOCP has been complicit in the hate by allowing it.

Yes, you do have an attitude. You do not care how much you abuse and waste an unsustainable resource as long as you benefit from it. Miners are happy to show how selfish they are. As an observation, it is deplorable.

As a point of discussion, selfish may not be the correct word. It could be narcissism.

As to your question about gamers being hateful. Well, I would say anyone who gives a damn about our resources would be in the same boat, as it pertains to the negative view of miners.

That is my take on it.
 

cdabc123

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
3,532
Yes, you do have an attitude. You do not care how much you abuse and waste an unsustainable resource as long as you benefit from it. Miners are happy to show how selfish they are. As an observation, it is deplorable.

As a point of discussion, selfish may not be the correct word. It could be narcissism.

As to your question about gamers being hateful. Well, I would say anyone who gives a damn about our resources would be in the same boat, as it pertains to the negative view of miners.

That is my take on it.

Energy isn't really a finite resource our current system of producing electricity makes it seam that way. That problem will solve itself as humans advance. The only issues comes as a result of the pollutants created by SOME if the current prosseses used to create electricity. I could care less if someone is using a stuipid amount of power for anything as it doesn't matter very much for anyone now or in the long run. Heck if everyone decided to use quite abit more power it may be enough to push the us power system out of the anceint system it has now. And what do you do for a living? If you work for any profit oriented buisness almost everything you do is a waste of resources. Do you work because you want to or because you get a paycheck? If the former how is it any less wasteful then mining? You go waste gas to drive there waste energy when there just to get money. Miners do the same exact thing.
 

whoismoes

n00b
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
55
You do not care how much you abuse and waste an unsustainable resource as long as you benefit from it. Miners are happy to show how selfish they are. As an observation, it is deplorable.

You can call it selfish if you want.

I don't think you understand how much personal risk / financial risk a serious miner like me takes to help create a different future. The potential financial benefit (so far has worked out for me) but it may have not and it could still go south. I have NOT converted any of my crypto into cash. I have paid for the hardware, electricity, and taxes (yes you have to pay taxes on crypto even if you don't sell) out of my own pocket. When you have the number of GPUs I have none of that is not a small amount. I'm not doing this just for the money. Yes it is part of it, but I believe that we can have a better future with a system that is different than what we have now. Is that going to be Bitcoin, Ether, Monero? I have no idea.
 

BSmith

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Energy isn't really a finite resource....<snip>.

Nothing you said after that statement matters as that statement is just wrong. Every resource is finite.

You can call it selfish if you want.

I don't think you understand how much personal risk / financial risk a serious miner like me takes to help create a different future. The potential financial benefit (so far has worked out for me) but it may have not and it could still go south. I have NOT converted any of my crypto into cash. I have paid for the hardware, electricity, and taxes (yes you have to pay taxes on crypto even if you don't sell) out of my own pocket. When you have the number of GPUs I have none of that is not a small amount. I'm not doing this just for the money. Yes it is part of it, but I believe that we can have a better future with a system that is different than what we have now. Is that going to be Bitcoin, Ether, Monero? I have no idea.

Your personal risk is irrelevant. You are wasting resources. Wanting change is not a bad thing, but this method is just wrong. It is wasteful, no matter how you spin it. Just because it is different does not make it better.

By the way, it is not my opinion miners are being selfish. It is a fact.
 
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HorseproofBacon

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 22, 2016
Messages
295
I have nothing against the concept. I detest the general attitude of miners.

This is a big point (modified your post a little). It is nothing but pure greed, and because of their "I do what I want, fuck the rest of you" attitude I feel no pity for them when they lose lots of money. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Mining produces nothing, it is a waste of resources, and it is arbitrarily driving up the cost of video cards and for the moment they are the only casualties. If crypto doesn't die soon, who knows what else it could start to affect. If it continues to grow in usage, it could easily create more and more demand on an already strained power grid system (at least in the U.S.). This could cause more frequent brownouts especially during summer time (peak power usage season) and an increase in power costs.

That would affect just about everybody, all for nothing but pure greed.
 

cdabc123

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Messages
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Nothing you said after that statement matters as that statement is just wrong. Every resource is finite.



Your personal risk is irrelevant. You are wasting resources. Wanting change is not a bad thing, but this method is just wrong. It is wasteful, no matter how you spin it. Just because it is different does not make it better.

Lol no. Energy and matter are two things that we literally have a infinite amount of. If you disagree go learn some things
 

BSmith

[H]ard|Gawd
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Lol no. Energy and matter are two things that we literally have a infinite amount of. If you disagree go learn some things

Uh no, we do not have an infinite supply of matter, nor energy. That is a fact.
 

BSmith

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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let's do somthing simple.

Is coal is an infinite resource?

No. Once converted it can take a few million years for it to return to coal, if conditions are right.

Is radioactive matter used in nuclear reactors an infinite resource?

No. There is a known half life for this matter. The output eventually falls below useful levels.

Is wind an infinite resource?

No. Wind comes and goes. It is not predictable.

Is the Sun an infinite resource?

No. It will, eventually, go super nova and kills us all.

The Law of Conversation of Mass applies to elememts. It is true you cannot convert one element to another. Elements can be joined by other compounds and eventually those bonds will break and the elements are returned back to thier native form. The time it can take for this process can vary from pico-seconds to trillions of years.

In the context of mining. Unsustainable resources are being used. It is that simple.
 

Biznatch

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
2,224
Well seeing that the point went completely above your head. If I were you I'd pause before calling anyone blind, let alone uneducated.

  1. Crypto doesn't affect my life one bit a the moment. But I have a little more forward thinking than my own immediate financial situation.
  2. Yes I think there are better ways, but that doesn't mean crypto is helping at all.
  3. I've been advocating for the abolition of the current financial system for at least a decade (yes before 2008), but for all intents and purposes crypto is not a solution, it's the adding of insult to injury. It is basically the same system but without the stabilizing power of governments and industries behind it. With the added "benefit" of mining, which is the main problem with crypto. I don't care about cryptocurrency that can't be mined, it doesn't help anything (well except criminals) but at least it doesn't drive us towards more immediately an economic disaster, and in the long term: ecologic disaster.

Yes, mining is the single most selfish activity one can engage in now, it shows an utter indifference to the future stability of our civilization, it endangers our very way of life. Just imagine what would happen if everybody suddenly stopped doing meaningful work and started mining for profits, creating absolutely no value. You'd have currency but you couldn't buy anything because there was nobody producing anything of worth since everyone was creating virtual coins. And by "everyone" of course one doesn't mean literally everyone. It just means reaching a tipping point. I don't know at which point would we start to notice shortages in everyday commodities, but it would come no doubt about it. The shortage of GPUs is just the tip of the iceberg, even if the reason for that shortage is different.

From the ecologic side, we're already in a crisis due to climate change and pollution. Now add to that the fact that miners already waste more energy than some smaller countries altogether. I hope you can all at least agree that mining doesn't return anything of value into the economy. While using resources of value like electricity and computer peripherals Which all take resources to create. One doesn't need to be a genius to realize that this is like running at a brick wall following the trail of (virtual) coins.


I think you are overestimating the effect of mining in the grand scheme of things, and it's more like limited thinking, not forward thinking. There are far more wasteful things than mining. Just think about the giant redudant datacenters required to run facebook/insta/imgur etc. And even if we include those, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the waste/pollution of giant corporations/manufacturers..... But sure, lets keep worrying about the crypto mining boogeyman that's going to kill us all.

And like I said before, I don't own or mine any crypto and never have. Like you it doesn't affect me, but I don't have raging hard-on of hate for it.
 

cdabc123

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
3,532
let's do somthing simple.

Is coal is an infinite resource?

No. Once converted it can take a few million years for it to return to coal, if conditions are right.

Is radioactive matter used in nuclear reactors an infinite resource?

No. There is a known half life for this matter. The output eventually falls below useful levels.

Is wind an infinite resource?

No. Wind comes and goes. It is not predictable.

Is the Sun an infinite resource?

No. It will, eventually, go super nova and kills us all.

The Law of Conversation of Mass applies to elememts. It is true you cannot convert one element to another. Elements can be joined by other compounds and eventually those bonds will break and the elements are returned back to thier native form. The time it can take for this process can vary from pico-seconds to trillions of years.

In the context of mining. Unsustainable resources are being used. It is that simple.

Once we finally get away from coal we will be fine. There is a certain point in whitch we could draw such a large amount of energy from the sourse that even if we we're to actively try to use all of it we would not be able to. Nuclear and the sun will never come close to running out in our life times or our children or anyone 10000 years from now. That makes it prertp safe to say we can use those as freely as we want and if they somehow run-out in the far far future they will either have means of new ways of obtaining power or wveryone will be dead anyways from something unrelated
 

BSmith

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,323
Once we finally get away from coal we will be fine. There is a certain point in whitch we could draw such a large amount of energy from the sourse that even if we we're to actively try to use all of it we would not be able to. Nuclear and the sun will never come close to running out in our life times or our children or anyone 10000 years from now. That makes it prertp safe to say we can use those as freely as we want and if they somehow run-out in the far far future they will either have means of new ways of obtaining power or wveryone will be dead anyways from something unrelated

Sorry, but that is not accurate.

Solar energy is fixed and cannot be expanded on. There is a fixed amount of energy striking the Earth, from the Sun, every hour. While that amount is pretty constant, it limits the amount of eletricity you can get from Solar.

Nuclear reactors have been decommisioned/shutdown (over 110 commercial reactors) due to the fact they are no longer sustainable.
 

GP40X

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
175
Good Jerusalem, all I want to do is buy a decent video card (1080TI) that doesn't cost more than a house payment! I don't hate miners per se, I hate what they do (use up the supply of gaming grade video cards creating vast shortages of a finite resource for gamers) leaving a lot hobbyist builders and gamers out in the cold until the next bubble bursts. It also hurts hobbyist digital artists that use the IRAY render engine as that means NVidia cards only that are in extremely short supply right now. I have needed to upgrade for a while to a Nvidia card with more memory for some digital art projects and can not find an affordable 1080 TI (I need the 11GB of memory for rendering) for love or money.
 

cdabc123

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
3,532
Sorry, but that is not accurate.

Solar energy is fixed and cannot be expanded on. There is a fixed amount of energy striking the Earth, from the Sun, every hour. While that amount is pretty constant, it limits the amount of eletricity you can get from Solar.

Nuclear reactors have been decommisioned/shutdown (over 110 commercial reactors) due to the fact they are no longer sustainable.

there are MANY difernt types of reactors that all run fairly differently. and that amount is more then enough to power every thing on this planet easily.
 

cdabc123

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
3,532
Good Jerusalem, all I want to do is buy a decent video card (1080TI) that doesn't cost more than a house payment! I don't hate miners per se, I hate what they do (use up the supply of gaming grade video cards creating vast shortages of a finite resource for gamers) leaving a lot hobbyist builders and gamers out in the cold until the next bubble bursts. It also hurts hobbyist digital artists that use the IRAY render engine as that means NVidia cards only that are in extremely short supply right now. I have needed to upgrade for a while to a Nvidia card with more memory for some digital art projects and can not find an affordable 1080 TI (I need the 11GB of memory for rendering) for love or money.

buy a 1080ti at whatever and mine on it :p may not pay for itself but should make up the price differance fairly easily.
 

BSmith

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
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there are MANY difernt types of reactors that all run fairly differently. and that amount is more then enough to power every thing on this planet easily.

I am only aware of the use of aluminum to prolong the life of a reactor, but they still degrade. I know carbon nanotubes show promise, but no one has been able to make a part with them yet to test with.

What other types of reactors are you referring to? A couple of examples would be fine. I am curious.
 

cdabc123

2[H]4U
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I am only aware of the use of aluminum to prolong the life of a reactor, but they still degrade. I know carbon nanotubes show promise, but no one has been able to make a part with them yet to test with.

What other types of reactors are you referring to? A couple of examples would be fine. I am curious.

im not necessarily talking about the life of the reactor but also the abundance of the fuel. it is estimated that there is enough thorium in the us alone to power us for over 1000 years. in addition unlike most fuel sources nuclear is far from its potential ie fusion reactors. In all honesty if we master nuclear power electricity becomes a complete non-issue and we arn't doing too bad as is as long as we eventually stop burning coal and fossil fuels. and those will kinda solve themselves. as long as politics stay out of it natrally those will deplete making it impractical to use them anymore.
 

BSmith

[H]ard|Gawd
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im not necessarily talking about the life of the reactor but also the abundance of the fuel. it is estimated that there is enough thorium in the us alone to power us for over 1000 years. in addition unlike most fuel sources nuclear is far from its potential ie fusion reactors. In all honesty if we master nuclear power electricity becomes a complete non-issue and we arn't doing too bad as is as long as we eventually stop burning coal and fossil fuels. and those will kinda solve themselves. as long as politics stay out of it natrally those will deplete making it impractical to use them anymore.

The fuel aside as it is a small part of the overall cost of a reactor, over its lifetime. If the reactors have to be shutdown and new ones built every X number of years just to maintain the usage now, how would we afford to add more buildout loads to the system? These reactors are damned expensive.

Here, read this. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=33792 Note, that only covers the U.S. Check the timelines for a site to become useful again after the reactor has been shutdown/decommisioned.
 

whoismoes

n00b
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Messages
55
BSmith - If it makes you feel any better, I was able to recycle the heat from my mining room and heat my house with it this winter. I furnace hasn't run yet! I know I'll never live up to your expectations as a non-selfish person, but I try.

In a few weeks I'll be converting it over to help heat my water. It won't be nearly as efficient, but it is something.
 

BSmith

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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BSmith - If it makes you feel any better, I was able to recycle the heat from my mining room and heat my house with it this winter. I furnace hasn't run yet! I know I'll never live up to your expectations as a non-selfish person, but I try.

In a few weeks I'll be converting it over to help heat my water. It won't be nearly as efficient, but it is something.

I just wish everyone would stop supporting the stupid method being used to earn coin today.

Overtime my tune has changed, in case no has not noticed. Origially, I was just pissed off at how wasteful people were being and kept hoping the day it would die would come soon. Now, I have done a lot of homework and realize it is not going to go away, ever. That pissed me off more because I cannot believe how many people are happy to race to see how much electricity (yes, I know that soulds backwards as most miners try to reduce how much each card uses, but collectively it is a race) miners can use to get their reward.

Then I got even madder when I discovered the power use is a designed feature AND is designed to increase in order to get the same reward level.

Now I have reached a point where I am no longer mad about it and am pushing for miners to push for a change in the entire system to reduce power usage, or find another way to do this which does not require a video card.
 

cdabc123

2[H]4U
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The fuel aside as it is a small part of the overall cost of a reactor, over its lifetime. If the reactors have to be shutdown and new ones built every X number of years just to maintain the usage now, how would we afford to add more buildout loads to the system? These reactors are damned expensive.

Here, read this. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=33792 Note, that only covers the U.S. Check the timelines for a site to become useful again after the reactor has been shutdown/decommisioned.

Cost really doesn't matter. And if miners and anyone is willing to pay it really doesn't matter.
 

whoismoes

n00b
Joined
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Messages
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Now I have reached a point where I am no longer mad about it and am pushing for miners to push for a change in the entire system to reduce power usage, or find another way to do this which does not require a video card.

BSmith - Do some more research on Proof of Stake and Proof of Capacity. Things are changing. Maybe not for the better though...
 

BSmith

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
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Cost really doesn't matter. And if miners and anyone is willing to pay it really doesn't matter.

I hope you are not saying the cost of building and maintaining a reactor is not a factor.

Are saying higher electric prices are fine as long as miners will pay it. That will be popular.

There comes a point where the cost is not the only issue. How many dead sites are acceptable? Are you okay with your town being a place to store radioactive waste?

Rhetorical questions. You seem to be fine as long as the status quo is maintained.

BSmith - Do some more research on Proof of Stake and Proof of Capacity. Things are changing. Maybe not for the better though...

I have already read about them.

I would think "Proof of Stake" would not benefit from a video card's GPU. Could be wrong. I have not studied the algorithm in detail, yet.

"Proof of Capcity" could still use a video card for the intial plots, but does not seem to be constant, like "Proof of Work" is. It could lead to reduced video card demand.

"Proof of Stake" wins on reducing eletricity usage, I think. Would seem to be more stable as well.

I am not 100% certain any of the "Proof"s could reduce video card demand, but I am hoping one will.
 

whoismoes

n00b
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Messages
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I have already read about them.

I would think "Proof of Stake" would not benefit from a video card's GPU. Could be wrong. I have not studied the algorithm in detail, yet.

"Proof of Capcity" could still use a video card for the intial plots, but does not seem to be constant, like "Proof of Work" is. It could lead to reduced video card demand.

"Proof of Stake" wins on reducing eletricity usage, I think. Would seem to be more stable as well.

I am not 100% certain any of the "Proof"s could reduce video card demand, but I am hoping one will.

Proof of Stake does not require any super high processing power. One of the reason you dislike Proof of Work is that PoW makes the work artificially hard (like you stated above). Proof of Stake still has work, but they make it easy and you are selected to find the next block randomly however your changes increase based on how much of the coin you are staking (HODL!). So, generally all you need is a computer that is on and a good internet connection. Some coins stake a little differently but this is the main idea.

Proof of Work does take a little more power, but it has some real world use of that power. True, you can use a GPU to both plot and mine PoC, but a CPU will do just fine for most people. I have an 8 core Ryzen that is about 2 seconds slower on 60tb than my RX550 4GB. All you really need for PoC is some storage, not even a lot. Think about the real world use case here... Something like Storj, Siacoin, BURST, Filecoin could put Dropbox out of business. It is cheaper and more secure as your data is stored on 100s of computers not in a single data center (or two). Let people use your space while you are not using it. Guess who is in a hurry to do an IPO before they go out of business? Ok, maybe they won't go out of business but their business is about to be disrupted.

I think we can all agree that the current way crypto is done isn't the greatest. I also think we can agree that the shitty cars we have been driving for the last 100 year are not good either and have hurt the environment worse. Sometimes you have to take steps to get from where we are now to better places. I am going to be part of that. You are choosing not to. It's ok. It doesn't make me selfish.

Oh, speaking of selfish... I misspoke above when I said I have never converted any of my crypto to cash. Technically I have not. However I HAVE made two crypto transactions.

1 - I bought a premium video card bios modding tool for .3 LTC which I used to reduce my daily power usage by 5% and increase my hash rate by 7%. I guess this is a little selfish (LTC was ~$195 at the time of purchase).
2 - I donated 2 LTC to a breast cancer charity (LTC was ~$135 at the time of donation).
 

cdabc123

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
3,532
I hope you are not saying the cost of building and maintaining a reactor is not a factor.

Are saying higher electric prices are fine as long as miners will pay it. That will be popular.

There comes a point where the cost is not the only issue. How many dead sites are acceptable? Are you okay with your town being a place to store radioactive waste?

Rhetorical questions. You seem to be fine as long as the status quo is maintained.



I have already read about them.

I would think "Proof of Stake" would not benefit from a video card's GPU. Could be wrong. I have not studied the algorithm in detail, yet.

"Proof of Capcity" could still use a video card for the intial plots, but does not seem to be constant, like "Proof of Work" is. It could lead to reduced video card demand.

"Proof of Stake" wins on reducing eletricity usage, I think. Would seem to be more stable as well.

I am not 100% certain any of the "Proof"s could reduce video card demand, but I am hoping one will.

Subsidize it abit. As long as the money generally stays in the us it really doesn't matter when the gov spends money. The sites for radioactive waste are really small and the us is REAL big I could care less if a small amount of land is unusable or if some people relocate (I would put up these in rural areas where they "create" a town not take down a already established one) and I could care less about a status quo it literally means nothing to me. I do see however see value in crypto. Unless you said that referring to some "fuck the rich" socialist stuff. In that case I will state we are many century's off from it even being possible to support that system and capitalism is just fine for now.

As far as the crypto algo unfortunately mining as it is today will not ease up for the imidiate future. New minable cryptos have a tendency to pop up for the sake of being profitable and nothing else. As a result there will always be a profitable coin to mine. With that said used gpu market will fluxuate. For example when ether forks there will be used cards for sale. and if you want to get a card I would recommend buying then. New market is screwed for awhile unless a company seriously ramps up production for a release whitch is pretty unlokly with the mem issue. The only hope to stop mining would require mem price to drop a lot to open up asics
 

triwolf

Gawd
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
708
yea that is a bad boat to be in right now.
Sorry, looks like another six month of no GPUs. Also, all people that say having an education is dumb, well you are dumb and grasping at anything to prove your point. Everyone knows having an education earns you millions more over a career. Don't let me stop your hate fest though, it's quite entertaining.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nv...sible-cryptocurrency-demand-might-drop,2.html

Nvidia and AMD have both been decelerating the developments of their new GPU architectures and prolonging their existing GPU platforms' lifecycle, the sources said, adding Nvidia's next-generation GPU architecture Turing will not enter the mass production until the third quarter.
 

cdabc123

2[H]4U
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Messages
3,532
Sorry, looks like another six month of no GPUs. Also, all people that say having an education is dumb, well you are dumb and grasping at anything to prove your point. Everyone knows having an education earns you millions more over a career. Don't let me stop your hate fest though, it's quite entertaining.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nv...sible-cryptocurrency-demand-might-drop,2.html

Nvidia and AMD have both been decelerating the developments of their new GPU architectures and prolonging their existing GPU platforms' lifecycle, the sources said, adding Nvidia's next-generation GPU architecture Turing will not enter the mass production until the third quarter.

at least 6 months. we may have short periods after large price drops that some gpus can be found. and of course nvidia and amd are doing this. if say mining crashes the ONLY market amd and nvidia will have is the high end one and they need cards that will significantly beat all the card that will flood the market or there will be no reason to buy the new cards.
 
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