Goodbye MagStripe, Hello Chip Cards

Megalith

Megalith

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The deadline for retailers to upgrade to chip-card readers has passed, marking the beginning of the end of magnetic stripe. Have you guys gotten your chip cards yet? I just want to know why that “beep” you hear from the new card readers always comes out sounding like an error.

A safer alternative are chip cards, which communicate with the card readers to create unique data every time they are used. Even if a hacker managed to somehow grab that data and create a counterfeit card, it would be useless for future transactions. And they can be used in combination with a PIN, instead of just a signature, making it harder for even thieves who steal physical cards to use them.
 
Finally USA, the retail life is going to get a whole lot more convenient.
Take from us people using this tech from 2007 and on in other countries :)
 
Convenient isn't really how I'd describe it. About half the places I visit actually have chip readers, and maybe a quarter of those places actually have it enabled, so I usually swipe anyways (since that always works). Also the chip read takes longer than a swipe, which is annoying.

Safer? Yes. More convenient? I doubt it.
 
Armisael said:
Convenient isn't really how I'd describe it. About half the places I visit actually have chip readers, and maybe a quarter of those places actually have it enabled, so I usually swipe anyways (since that always works). Also the chip read takes longer than a swipe, which is annoying.

Safer? Yes. More convenient? I doubt it.
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For those of us in the 21st century, it's convenient. Canada has had this technology universally since 2010. Easier and faster and much more convenient. And if you have chip and pin, swiping will NOT work. Only foreigners from the 20th century use swipe. I also use Tap 'n Go for payments under $50. http://www.mastercard.ca/contactless-tapgo.html
 
They sent me a new card while I was on vacation and deactivated the old one, "for my convenience" (when I called them). I drilled that guy a new asshole when he said that to me, worthless script monkey. How the fuck is it convenient for me when you deactivate my card unannounced while I'm on vacation?

Fuckers.
 
LOL... I have a stack of CC cards and the only one that has been upgraded is my business credit card.
 
DKS said:
For those of us in the 21st century, it's convenient. Canada has had this technology universally since 2010. Easier and faster and much more convenient. And if you have chip and pin, swiping will NOT work. Only foreigners from the 20th century use swipe. I also use Tap 'n Go for payments under $50. http://www.mastercard.ca/contactless-tapgo.html
Click to expand...

That's not what the US is implementing, unfortunately. We're getting these readers, and we aren't actually using chip and pin - we're using chip and sign. Apparently the CC companies are worried that people won't be able to remember a pin.

What the US is getting isn't as convenient and isn't as safe.
 
Just got my wave & chip card the other day. I can't see using the wave thing unless I'm forced to.

Around here chips are ancient. I've had at least 2 chip cards expire in sequence from age.
 
A few US banks are doing chip and pin. Of course, the pin only adds security if the CC user memorizes the pin as opposed to writing it on each of their 10+ CCs or on a helpful note card kept in their wallet.

And pay by swipe is only as secure as the 'smart' device being used, which as it is turning out, may be not so much.

Sadly, cash is turning out to be a fairly secure method of payment, at least for face to face transactions. No identity theft or cyber records for bad guys to steal. And my losses are limited to cash on hand.
 
Esso said:
Finally USA, the retail life is going to get a whole lot more convenient.
Take from us people using this tech from 2007 and on in other countries :)
Click to expand...

Taking twice as long to check out is not what I would call more convenient.
 
Esso said:
Finally USA, the retail life is going to get a whole lot more convenient.
Take from us people using this tech from 2007 and on in other countries :)
Click to expand...

The slot to put the card in is under the device, and since the readers were put on the same mounts as the previous ones, it's typically too low. This makes putting the card into the slot awkward. I don't know why they insisted on putting it there instead of somewhere I can just put the card straight in.

As well, the chip reader is several seconds slower than a stripe reader, and as mentioned, for some reason the US readers like making beeps that sound like errors. I've instinctively yanked the card out of the reader too early because I just hear "bzzzt" and I think it needs to be reseated or something.

I didn't run into any of these issues in Canada (where ironically our brand new chip tech is their 'previous gen' as they are using those wifi cards now). The readers were mounted high and angled better, and they seemed faster.
 
DKS said:
For those of us in the 21st century, it's convenient. Canada has had this technology universally since 2010. Easier and faster and much more convenient. And if you have chip and pin, swiping will NOT work. Only foreigners from the 20th century use swipe. I also use Tap 'n Go for payments under $50. http://www.mastercard.ca/contactless-tapgo.html
Click to expand...

How is swiping not really as easy? The Chip takes longer too. Is it more secure for the physical card? Maybe is was more secure 20 years ago but today now there is a the US honeypot probably less likely as time goes along.

The PIN is the item of any real value and swipe & PIN would be likely more secure, imho, than Chip & Sig and been easier to implement. Any reader that took a Debit Card and its PIN could have done it. The PIN would have had value Online or Phone, the chip does nothing there.

Chip is old technology that doesn't cover a major area of Credit Card use.
 
Too bad US credit card processors aren't going with chip & pin, but with the same problematic swipe/tap & sign system it currently has. Online is even worse, since there's not even protection of tapping/swiping.
 
What's crazy is that the US is so far behind on Chip/tap to pay cards, yet has android pay before countries like Canada who have had chip credit cards for like 10 years
 
Armisael said:
That's not what the US is implementing, unfortunately. We're getting these readers, and we aren't actually using chip and pin - we're using chip and sign. Apparently the CC companies are worried that people won't be able to remember a pin.

What the US is getting isn't as convenient and isn't as safe.
Click to expand...

From what I understand, the EU is moving away from Chip and Pin (maybe that's only on smaller transactions). Most fraud is not via a stolen credit card, so this accomplishes their goal (or so they say). I don't see why anyone cares. If you lose your CC and they charge 500 bucks, visa/mc or your bank pays for it, not you.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Taking twice as long to check out is not what I would call more convenient.
Click to expand...

How long does it take? I've got a card, but I've yet to see a place that takes a chip card...unless Kroger does and I just didn't notice.
 
jpm100 said:
How is swiping not really as easy? The Chip takes longer too. Is it more secure for the physical card? Maybe is was more secure 20 years ago but today now there is a the US honeypot probably less likely as time goes along.

The PIN is the item of any real value and swipe & PIN would be likely more secure, imho, than Chip & Sig and been easier to implement. Any reader that took a Debit Card and its PIN could have done it. The PIN would have had value Online or Phone, the chip does nothing there.

Chip is old technology that doesn't cover a major area of Credit Card use.
Click to expand...
As I understand it, the code generated by the card for authorization is a one time code. You can steal it, but it's not going to be valid beyond that transaction. If they copy your magnetic stripe, they could buy stuff until your bank's fraud algorithms detect unusual activity and freeze your account.
 
nilepez said:
From what I understand, the EU is moving away from Chip and Pin (maybe that's only on smaller transactions). Most fraud is not via a stolen credit card, so this accomplishes their goal (or so they say). I don't see why anyone cares. If you lose your CC and they charge 500 bucks, visa/mc or your bank pays for it, not you.
Click to expand...

For sub-20/30 euros, yes, it is VISA payWave or similar systems - which work in very similar way to Apple Pay. For anything more than that, or once your payWave payments acumulate over certain limit, you need to pay via chip & pin again. So you "confirm" your card via chip & pin at least once a week or two.
 
LoL - well sorry to hear from everyone that this will not be more convenient. It's too bad that they can't take the best from what is already utilized around the rest of world. Hopefully the implementation will mature to something more convenient over time, until then enjoy hating on the change ;P
 
nilepez said:
How long does it take? I've got a card, but I've yet to see a place that takes a chip card...unless Kroger does and I just didn't notice.
Click to expand...
Kroger should soon. I'm unfortunately at a certain west coast branch of Kroger . And it's a clusterfuck.

Need to find a better job.
 
Blind Man said:
What's crazy is that the US is so far behind on Chip/tap to pay cards, yet has android pay before countries like Canada who have had chip credit cards for like 10 years
Click to expand...

My guess would be different banking setup does not work well with Android and apple pay, as in they don't want them entering the market. In any case I much rather work directly with the banking system and no additional middleware 3rd party getting this info also IMHO.
 
Ok I went to a couple stores yesterday and.... same old systems still in place, or at best some hybrid system. Either way none of my credit cards have been "upgraded" they're all still mag strip.

And retailers have been busily replacing their card readers—if they haven’t, as of today, 1 October, card-issuing banks will no longer eat the costs of fraud; it will be on the merchant.
Click to expand...
This is something that I would like to see play through. Banks telling merchants "it's your fault someone used an illegal card"

Either way, I'm happy there is no PIN component to it, like seriously how many fucking passwords do I need to know? how many PINs do I need to know, and make sure I don't do the most basic of errors and use the same one across everywhere? Seriously fuck that, you as a credit card company wants to make money off me every time I use my card you damn sure are going to make it fucking convenient as all hell, and that includes me not having to remember shit except to bring my credit card in the first place.
 
I don't even remember the last time I had to swipe a card. I never even realized it was still a thing.
 
jpm100 said:
How is swiping not really as easy? The Chip takes longer too. Is it more secure for the physical card? Maybe is was more secure 20 years ago but today now there is a the US honeypot probably less likely as time goes along.

The PIN is the item of any real value and swipe & PIN would be likely more secure, imho, than Chip & Sig and been easier to implement. Any reader that took a Debit Card and its PIN could have done it. The PIN would have had value Online or Phone, the chip does nothing there.

Chip is old technology that doesn't cover a major area of Credit Card use.
Click to expand...

Chip and Pin takes 20 seconds, more or less. The PIN is used over again, but each transaction is a unique encryption, I understand, making knowing the PIN without the card irrelevant. The PIN is not used in online or phone transactions. For that there is the CVV on the back of the card.
 
Wells sent me chip cards over the summer. Only place I've actually used it was at Target, does take a second to read though...
 
sfsuphysics said:
Ok I went to a couple stores yesterday and.... same old systems still in place, or at best some hybrid system. Either way none of my credit cards have been "upgraded" they're all still mag strip.


This is something that I would like to see play through. Banks telling merchants "it's your fault someone used an illegal card"

Either way, I'm happy there is no PIN component to it, like seriously how many fucking passwords do I need to know? how many PINs do I need to know, and make sure I don't do the most basic of errors and use the same one across everywhere? Seriously fuck that, you as a credit card company wants to make money off me every time I use my card you damn sure are going to make it fucking convenient as all hell, and that includes me not having to remember shit except to bring my credit card in the first place.
Click to expand...
PIN? 4-6 digits. I use a series of variations on a unique number which only I know and is not recorded anywhere. Simple.
 
We phased out magnet strips here in Europe years ago. I barely remember using cards with them. Only strong memories are there from the immense frustration they caused because every magstrip reader required a different speed and other tricks to get it to read properly.

The chip versions you just stick in on the top and leave it there until the transaction is complete. Far easier. Of course we have always used PINs with cards here for as long as I can remember. Only exception seems to be Ikea here in Germany, who seem to accept a signature instead of a PIN. Still weirds me out :eek:
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Taking twice as long to check out is not what I would call more convenient.
Click to expand...
The newer devices seems to improve the process time with faster SOC.
I remember a few years back when we rolled out the chip, some POS machines can take 5 whole seconds before asking for PIN code which then takes another a few more seconds to process it. Nowadays I'd say its pretty close to swiping.

Elledan said:
We phased out magnet strips here in Europe years ago. I barely remember using cards with them. Only strong memories are there from the immense frustration they caused because every magstrip reader required a different speed and other tricks to get it to read properly.
Click to expand...
I remember those, though it's mostly the checkout person that had to learn the tricks ;)
It's worse when some guys sit on their back wallet causing the card to bend.
 
You realize the ONLY reason this is finally happening is that Gubmint regulation is forcing it.

MC/Visa the banks and retailers were/are all too cheap and greedy to give a shit about security/privacy. And why should they, massive breaches occur, people's lives get turned inside out, and it doesn't COST them squat.

And since they own the credit reporting agencies, even if they get ordered to pay for monitoring .... they are paying themselves AND writing the cost off of their taxes .... meaning YOU pay for it as a taxpayer, no matter which way the ball drops.

Conservative mantra: What you pay for you get more of ..... here What you don't pay for you definitely get none of.

However, without something like a PIN or a cell phone text temporary PIN to close the loop. The point of security breach will just shift to the next weakest point in the system.
 
westrock2000 said:
How does this change online purchases? How does this improve THAT fraud?
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You are totally right if doesn't stop all frauds we should not improve it in anyway....:rolleyes:
no wonder things are so behind on money security here.

Using magnet stripe and not even have to use a PIN in many places was a huge surprise for me when moving to the states. ZIP code as security. HAH that must be a joke. how hard is it for a person who gets a hold of your CC to "guess" the current and neighboring ZIP codes.

But back to your first question i can tell you how the handle online shopping security in a modern country. you receive an "E-biil" that you simply accept in your online bank system. That way not access-to-money info is shared with the store.

Same goes with government important paperwork. you login to the government mailbox.
you can even accept your taxes papers that are all precalculated for you.
no physsical paper waste. no waiting on the postman to bring back papers.
Fast & efficient.
 
The only stores around me with chip readers is the pet store and Walmart. Even Costco still uses a swipe.
 
I know of exactly one that has been upgraded. The gas station portion at a general merchandise store. If you go inside the store those are still swipes. Beyond that, it's still running at swipe everywhere I've encountered. If it wasn't then just maybe I wouldn't have had to get a new card recently when there were fraud charges on my card. :mad:
 
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
You realize the ONLY reason this is finally happening is that Gubmint regulation is forcing it.

MC/Visa the banks and retailers were/are all too cheap and greedy to give a shit about security/privacy. And why should they, massive breaches occur, people's lives get turned inside out, and it doesn't COST them squat.
Click to expand...

Wuuuh? Every time a card is cloned or stolen and then used issuer pays for the losses. This isn't going to protect you from identity theft. If you want to stop that, freeze your credit.
 
SvenBent said:
You are totally right if doesn't stop all frauds we should not improve it in anyway....:rolleyes:
no wonder things are so behind on money security here.

Using magnet stripe and not even have to use a PIN in many places was a huge surprise for me when moving to the states. ZIP code as security. HAH that must be a joke. how hard is it for a person who gets a hold of your CC to "guess" the current and neighboring ZIP codes.
Click to expand...

I think it really depends on where you live. If you live in an area where there's only one or 2 zips, then sure that's an issue, but if you live in Houston, good luck. You'll have a new zip every few blocks. Honestly, I'm far more likely to lose a card when I'm out of town than at home.

Of course there's a good chance you'll have my wallet too and that has my zip on my license...so I guess you're right after all ;)
 
Esso said:
LoL - well sorry to hear from everyone that this will not be more convenient. It's too bad that they can't take the best from what is already utilized around the rest of world. Hopefully the implementation will mature to something more convenient over time, until then enjoy hating on the change ;P
Click to expand...

Hopefully the implementation will mature?? Think about how long it took us to get this crappy implementation rolled out...Yeah, sure, we'll have something more convenient about the time we have self-flying cars.
 
Blind Man said:
What's crazy is that the US is so far behind on Chip/tap to pay cards, yet has android pay before countries like Canada who have had chip credit cards for like 10 years
Click to expand...

Credit cards have had it here for a while, it just was not being used.
 
nilepez said:
How long does it take? I've got a card, but I've yet to see a place that takes a chip card...unless Kroger does and I just didn't notice.
Click to expand...

At my barber and at Home Depot it took a good 20 seconds from card insert to card return. May not seem like much, but the swipe the week before was instant receipt print. If you have a line of 10 people and checkout now takes 30 seconds longer per person...............
 
Been using it pretty much everyday since 2004. Using the pin doesn't take more than 5 seconds, but I guess it depends on the hardware of the reader as well.
 
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