Goodbye DSLR, hello a7RII

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heatsinker

Supreme [H]ardness
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Ever since the A7 was first announced, it already had my attention: full frame sensor in a compact, lightweight package, what's not to like? However, with all of the negative reports of poor AF performance, relatively high cost and a crappy selection of lenses, I decided to forgo the platform until it matured a little.

I've been shooting with the Nikon D800 since it hit the streets in 2012 and honestly, it's the best camera I've ever owned... apart from its size and weight. This shortcoming made itself obvious during a trip to the Philippines where it not only made it difficult to fit my camera backpack under the seat, it also made me a very obvious target for thieves looking for a guaranteed payday.

Ever since then, I've been a mirrorless advocate; I started with the A6000, which is a fantastic APS-C camera. Despite my satisfaction with the platform, I found myself longing for the high-ISO performance and increased detail of a full frame sensor, so when the a7RII was announced, I knew that my DSLR days were numbered. Fast forward to today and I finally have my hands on the most advanced mirrorless camera available to consumers.

I've only had a chance to play with it for an hour or two since the dwindling light pretty much limits what I can take photos of. Here's a quick summary:

What I like
  • The detail, oh the detail and high-ISO performance. The 42MP sensor practically makes up a 1/4 of the surface of the camera, but damn is it worth it.
  • Internal 4K video. I'm not much of a videographer, but the ability to take 4K videos is huge plus in my book.
  • 5-axis In-body stabilization. While it isn't going to magically negate jittery hands, I've managed to get acceptable photos with shutter speeds as low as 1/15, handheld. It also works to stabilize video footage, small jittery movements are virtually eliminated.
  • Silent shutter. It really is silent; I suppose if there were no other noises in the room you'd be able to make out a noise, but in 95% of situations it's virtually silent.
  • The size. It's not that much bigger than the A6000. The lenses are a different story, however.
  • Improved EVF. I'm not a huge fan of EVFs period, but the a7RII's EVF is considerably improved over the A6000. The displayed image is more accurately rendered and is approaching the quality out of an optical viewfinder.

What I don't like
  • Weight. This was the first thing I noticed when I lifted the camera out of the box. If the A6000 were a magazine, the a7RII would be a dictionary. Combined with a lens, this thing is approaching DSLR weight.
  • The size. Yes, the smaller size is a great plus, but with a long and heavy lens (like the 16-35mm I have on it) it's incredibly hard to hold the camera with just one hand. Maybe because I have large hands and I can't fully wrap my fingers around the tiny grip, but the thing is very front heavy and tends to lean forward.
  • The mode dial lock button. Admittedly, I haven't spent much time on this, but I found it really difficult to push the button down while spinning the dial using only one hand.
  • Battery life. The a7RII uses the same battery as the A6000. Sadly, this battery is barely adequate for the A6000 and the a7RII basically makes short work of it, according to the manual, the battery should be good for around 280 shots. Luckily, Sony did include 2 batteries in the box; it doesn't solve the battery issue but it's a VERY welcome addition.

I'm sure more things will come up as I spend more time with it, but so far, I'm liking it. The D800 and A6000 will probably end up in the FS section soon enough. If anyone has any requests or questions, I will do my best to help!

Pictures of the camera (taken with D800)
http://www.rreactor.com/gallery/a7rii/a71.jpg
http://www.rreactor.com/gallery/a7rii/a72.jpg
http://www.rreactor.com/gallery/a7rii/a73.jpg

Pictures taken with a7RII, ISO 6400, handheld. RAW converted and resized to uncompressed JPEG, no PP done.
http://www.rreactor.com/gallery/a7rii/a74.jpg
http://www.rreactor.com/gallery/a7rii/a75.jpg
 
Awesome. Looking forward to your pics with new camera. :) One day, I might be able to upgrade. :)
 
This is my dream camera. I have an a6000 currently and love adapting legacy lenses to it. I came from a d7000 and definitely don't see myself going back to slr cameras.

Congrats on your purchase and happy shooting!
 
It will be interesting to see how this camera does out in the world.
If the metabones Canon adapter is as good as they (Sony) says, and the AF works like it's native, I can see a lot of Canon shooters jumping ship.

At this point though, I don't personally think the reason for doing so would have anything to do with weight, as like you said, and especially paired with Canon glass, there wouldn't be much if any savings. The attractive parts all have to do with tech. I can see this as being a viable alternative for anyone willing to sacrifice some speed (that is to say working speed) for huge amounts of tech.

I don't personally see myself jumping ship yet. Not quite yet. But Sony is definitely doing and making all the right moves to get a user base. And I'm certain they will be successful, as they are being aggressive and not holding punches unlike some other companies I know. (What's more, they're all Japanese. Don't they know that business is war?) The main reasons for me is cost and proven workflow. A7RII ain't cheap and if I was going to spend that much, it's also tempting to want to buy something like the 5DS-R (which yes is an entirely different animal). Workflow is workflow. It doesn't matter as much if what you're capturing isn't your job, but ideally you want maximum improvement with minimum impact to how you work. As I work on Canon, continuing to work on Canon is beneficial. There is virtually no ergonomic changes from the 5D3 to the 5DS/R.

Still, like I said before, the A7RII is no joke. Please post your experiences with it as you go along.
 
Does Sony offer a non compressed raw now? When I looked at the 36MP camera from them (the competitor to the D800E) I wasn't impressed at all with the raws from them. The raw compression algorithm they were using back when I looked was very lossy with some posterization and "orange peel" side effects. The TIFFs straight from the camera looked real good.
 
Uncompressed/losslessly compressed RAW is the hot topic right now with the a7RII, it was an issue before release and continues to be an issue after the release.

Some users in the DPReview forums managed to produce some barcode-like patterns during heavy shadow recovery, some are saying these are compression artifacts while some are saying they're something else entirely.

Either way, it's one of the features that I wished made it to the finished product. Sony has responded that it's possible to do via firmware update if "there's enough demand", so only time will tell if we'll get it in the future. It's not really a dealbreaker for me since I'm not an obsessive pixel peeper, but a camera in this price range should have this option. I don't have a problem with the quality of the RAWs coming out of my A6000, but it's also not a full frame sensor so it's possible I'll be able to notice said artifacts with the larger sensor.
 
Sony has to deal with us silly consumers. Bunch of people complained and strongly opposed the D800 because of the filesize of the raws. If Sony puts a non compressed raw option people will start using that larger filesize as a reason against the camera.

Nikon has a "lossless compressed" option, but even that isn't perfect as the name suggest. If I'm taking important shots I always change to the "uncompressed raw" option on my D800.

The A7RII you bought looks and sounds amazing. Plus on sensor phase AF, my god I've been hoping for that in a full frame camera for the last 5 years. I'd be more than happy to own that thing and shoot with it. Ticks 99% of the boxes for me, better raw handling is the only feature missing. If my camera has a horrible death the A7RII would be at the top of the list for consideration.
 
Went out to the walking trail near our house today and took some random shots, admittedly there's not much to see on the trail besides birds, but I haven't rounded out my lens selection yet so I'm limited to taking landscape shots.


sunseta7 by rpgreactor, on Flickr


a7trail by rpgreactor, on Flickr


a7trail2 by rpgreactor, on Flickr

A few more observations of the camera:

  • The aperture and shutter speed wheels are too tucked in, I'm used to the generously sized wheels of the D800 and I've found that I have to really press down to get any traction on the a7RII's wheels. More often than not, I end up working the EV compensation wheel instead by mistake. I'm sure this will get better as I get more accustomed to the camera.
  • You can feel the IBIS assembly wobbling and gyrating when you hold the camera in your palm while walking. Ever pick up a hard drive while it's spinning down? That's what it felt like.
  • The shutter sounds funny. Probably because I have EFCS enabled, but it makes a kind of squishy noise when the shutter is actuated.
 
Wow...you make a compelling case. I have been enjoying my A6000 but still use my 5D as the "go to" setup. I can just do everything I need so quickly and easily and be confident in getting the exposure I want. If the next release of full-frame mirrorless are enough of an improvement and allow me to retain the use of my existing lenses (or start providing some solid competition in their native offerings), I may finally cave.
 
Lookin' good! The sharp detail in that grass is pretty impressive. Did you sharpen any in post, or is that straight off the sensor, or what?
 
The sunset shot has no sharpening applied either by the camera or in post. The last two have less than 30 in the Sharpening setting in Lightroom (don't remember the exact figure).

All of the images have had some post production tweaks, particularly the sunset pic. I had to underexpose that shot by several stops to get the desired sunstar effect, the rest was corrected in post. I'll post the originals when I get home later so you can see the difference.
 
I just went on a photowalk with Trey Ratcliff (the HDR guy) and so many people were packing the A7IIs (not the Rs), I was surprised. But seeing the sample pics from both here and around the web, I can see why.

My 6D is still kicking so I can't justify making the jump quite yet - especially since I just got my hands on a Sigma 24-35 F2 - but it's definitely now on my radar (the computer geek in me says "That's 3 titan x cards!") :-D
 
dvsman said:
My 6D is still kicking so I can't justify making the jump quite yet - especially since I just got my hands on a Sigma 24-35 F2 - but it's definitely now on my radar (the computer geek in me says "That's 3 titan x cards!") :-D
Click to expand...

Cameras depreciate in value over time, but Titans will depreciate much much faster. Unless you have stupid amounts of cash to burn or your life just rotates around having extreme machines for some reason then I can't in good conscience ever recommend buying one Titan, let alone 3.
 
Unknown, I'm right there with you - cameras depreciate slower for sure, but either way both are money pits (along with cars ...). But what can you do? :-D
 
I lost all interest in DSLRs after getting my X-T1. I just hope I can get rid of my D800e for at least $1500.
 
Megalith - have you tried Fred Miranda forums ... that's where I look for camera info / buy & sell. Just a FYI.
 
Based on the landscapes and pics of your racing wheel in the family room, I am 99%, that is the bay trail outside of Heron Bay/Marina.
 
MN Scout said:
There is a bunch of technical articles about this camera at the site The Last Word. I particularly like the look at, dynamic range, pushing the images 5 stops (p1, p2), and the discussion about when the camera switches between 13 bits and 12 bits of precision.

It appears the A7RII switches to 12 bits when bulb mode is enable and during a few other modes. I wonder if my D800 does that?
Click to expand...

Jim Kasson (the blog author) is pretty active in the DPreview forums and his findings are very helpful in getting the most out of the camera.

I was particularly interested in his findings with the limits of the EFCS and how the max shutter speed should stay below 1/1000s before it begins to exhibit ghosting. I rarely shoot over 1/1000s, but this limitation is good to know in case I find myself shooting motorsports or aircraft.

And also how there is no difference in sharpness between EFCS and Silent Shutter, but Silent Shutter does switch to 12-bit so it's best to leave it Off until the situation actually calls for a silent shot.
 
Nenu said:
What do you make of the issues posted in this article?
(granted its a Canon biased site)
http://www.canonwatch.com/off-brand...st-over-hyped-over-priced-camera-of-the-year/
Click to expand...

A lot of it is just brand bias, especially considering the author doesn't even have any first hand experience with the camera, but there are legitimate concerns. I too would prefer uncompressed or losslessly compressed RAW; this may be added in the future, but who knows.

I'm no engineer, but the camera overheating during 4K recording may just be endemic to having such a large sensor in a small package. I know my D800 has gotten more than warm to the touch during long recordings at 1080P and I didn't expect anything different from the A7M2. Some have argued that other 4K-record capable cameras (NX1, GH4, etc) don't have overheating issues, but they also don't have full frame sensors. The longest continuous clip I've ever recorded was 8 minutes, so I think the camera suits my needs fine.

The long exposure color noise may or may not be a real issue, some users have reported it's because of the lack of long exposure NR while others say that using different conversion software takes care of it.

For someone like me, who is looking to get out of the big-bodied DSLR game while wanting to retain the full frame sensor, the A7M2 is heaven sent.

For a professional shooter who probably has never put much thought into weight or space savings and may already have one or two high end bodies, then this camera probably doesn't make much sense at all, but that doesn't make it any less amazing and game changing.
 
Its an eye opener of a camera.
Thanks for your comments.
 
That Ming Thein link on the canonwatch page is questionable to me. The page keeps saying the A7RII has a 24MP file. Umm did they just copy their review from the previous camera?:(

I think the lossy raws are inexcusable.

I'm also not a fan of them filtering the images before being saved to raw. It is raw for a reason. The companies should instead publish a white paper stating what they feel the optimal algorithms to apply to their raws are, and leave it too the software companies to implement (OR give the photographer the option to turn the baked in filtering off). Algorithms and processing get better over the years, so I don't want 2015 processing permanently baked into my raw.

The issues with the camera heating up are expected. My D800 heats up. I assumed a camera that uses the sensor all the time would heat up quicker. If I remember right the larger medium format cameras use fans and peltiers to cool the sensor.

I think my ideal camera right now might be the Pentax 645Z. Just need to come into a truck full of money.
 
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Pretty good. I'd be interested in seeing indoor people/pet shots.
 
I probably will be selling my 5DIII to get this camera, just sick and tired of Canons laziness, so many years and no improvement.
 
Finally got to give the camera its first test this Labor Day weekend shooting a local church picnic. Last week I purchased the 70-200mm f/4 G lens in anticipation for this event so I was able to see how the lens performs vs the Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 that I have come to love.

What I liked about the lens
  • Body Color. It's white, so it deals with direct sunlight better. I was squatting in the sun for several minutes and the lens barely got warm to the touch; to my recollection, the all-black Nikon got noticeably hotter.
  • It's lighter and smaller; it's still pretty hefty for a mirrorless lens, but compared to the Nikon, this thing's a lightweight.
  • Bokeh, not a huge difference from the Nikon, which I consider a big plus since I loved the bokeh of the Nikon

What I didn't like so much about the lens
  • Really missing the 2.8. This was exacerbated by the fact that I used a circular polarizer to combat the sun, which resulted in a slower shutter speed and at times, having to raise the ISO. In addition, I found it difficult to get the DOF I wanted at f/4 without having to increase the focal length. I imagine it would be a little difficult using this indoors in less than ideal lighting.
  • Lens hood. It's a tube type as opposed to a petal, which made it difficult to turn the polarizer or install/remove the lens cap, especially if you have large hands.
  • AF assist light useless. The lens' length combined with the compact camera body means the AF assist light hits the body of the lens instead of the subject, rendering it pretty much useless.

The lens is a pretty close match with the Nikon 70-200; it's sharp in the center and in the corners even at wide open and the bokeh is more than satisfactory. However, if Sony released a 2.8 version, I would sell this lens in a heartbeat to get the faster glass, even if it was bigger and heavier and more expensive. However, I'm happy with the images this lens has produced and I wouldn't hesitate to go out with it again.

As for the camera, I was able to try a number of features such as Continuous Shooting, AF-C and focus tracking. Having shot this type of event before with the Nikon D800 (albeit under different conditions), I came in knowing what to expect.

What worked well
  • Burst shooting. The camera is limited to 5fps, which is similar to the D800's limit. Worked well enough to freeze the action, though I didn't like having to switch to Continuous shooting mode to be able to do this (as opposed to the Nikon, where you can just mash the shutter button to shoot as many as the buffer will allow).
  • EVF. I also used to own a Sony A6000 and found the EVF to be lacking the visual clarity and the "speed" of an optical viewfinder. The A7RII's EVF bridges that gap incredibly well, to the point that I'm no longer missing the OVF.
  • Camera itself. With all of the talks of overheating, I was worried that the camera itself would quit on me since I did spend an awful lot of time in direct sunlight and I could feel the camera noticeably getting warmer in my hands, but it kept on chugging.
  • AF-C. I had to shoot a lot of folks running around during the games and the camera had no trouble keeping focus once it locked on, even when the camera was panned quickly.

What didn't work so well
  • Focus. It being Labor Day weekend, the park was jam packed with folks. During the games, the camera would choose to focus on folks in the background instead, even with the subject directly in front of the lens. After the event, I did notice that I had Face/Smile detection on, so it's very likely that AF-C switched to the next available face once the subject turned their back.
  • "Memory being written". I ran into this error a few times while attempting to shoot video; I suppose when something is being written to the memory card, the camera can't shoot video. I had missed 2-3 seconds of a game because I could not start recording immediately after taking a few photos.

Despite a few critical misses, I thought the camera performed admirably. The A7 series have been panned for their inability to keep up with DSLRs when it comes to action and sports shooting, but my experience dictated the opposite. I don't regret ditching the DSLR or the APS-C, as this camera seems to be able to handle it all. All we need now is some fast glass and we've got ourselves a serious platform.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53777222@N07/albums/72157657914406108
 
Thanks for the update, heatsinker. The lack of fast glass is exactly what is holding me back from leaving my 5D. I'm hoping the next iteration of mirrorless offerings will be coupled with enough complimentary lenses for me to make the switch.
 
what fast glass do you need? there is fast glass on mirrorless.

And with a7RII you can use your canon glass with adapter.
 
nekrosoft13 said:
what fast glass do you need? there is fast glass on mirrorless.

And with a7RII you can use your canon glass with adapter.
Click to expand...

I came from Nikon so I don't have any Canon glass, plus I want to avoid the use of an adapter as much as possible.

I'm mostly hankering for a 70-200mm f2.8 and a 24-70mm f2.8; Sony's got the primes pretty much covered, but the zooms could use some more attention. There's talk of the possibility of new, faster zooms for next year, so I'm optimistic.
 
Speaking of adapters, there is a Nikon adapter in works that will have AF.

you could use the Sony 24-70mm f/2.8 Carl Zeiss in Alpha mount now. and Sony 70-200mm f/2.8
 
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