Good Video/Perspective on Gaming

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USMCGrunt

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Just watched this and, in light of all the VR happenings over the last week or so, it may help put things in perspective. She talks fast and it might seem long to some, but I thought it was a good watch.

https://youtu.be/AhWl_IwJrGw
 
Anyone talking that fast is on some good shit mainly no self control.
 
Comixbooks said:
Anyone talking that fast is on some good shit mainly no self control.
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Talking fast only means you value your and your listener's time.

I watched the video, but it's not going anywhere. It has very little to do with VR. Or anything relevant.

Basically she says that video games are art, and those who don't play videogames deprive themselves of something good.

But it's not that simple. Every person judges things based on their own background. If you grew up like she did playing videogames, then that's what you'll like. But for someone who was insulated from that they can't look at it the same way. They won't understand it.

She also speaks about how videogames are considered less than movies or other forms of entertainment. Frankly I never felt that notion. I don't know what is that assumption based on. Yes people who didn't grew up playing videogames dismiss them, but from those who enjoy both movies and games, I never heard this.
 
M76 said:
Talking fast only means you value your and your listener's time.

I watched the video, but it's not going anywhere. It has very little to do with VR. Or anything relevant.

Basically she says that video games are art, and those who don't play videogames deprive themselves of something good.

But it's not that simple. Every person judges things based on their own background. If you grew up like she did playing videogames, then that's what you'll like. But for someone who was insulated from that they can't look at it the same way. They won't understand it.

She also speaks about how videogames are considered less than movies or other forms of entertainment. Frankly I never felt that notion. I don't know what is that assumption based on. Yes people who didn't grew up playing videogames dismiss them, but from those who enjoy both movies and games, I never heard this.
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You're missing her and mine. Her point is that throughout history, as "art" forms emerged, the incumbent arts said that the new form was not art. Video games are the new art but are still railed against by many in the old guard art forms.

My point in referencing VR is that just like how each new technology has developed from its creation to where they are at today, the quality of the production and the experience has become vastly improved. From the original silent films to today's bombastic blockbusters or the grainy, minutes long exposure time of the original cameras to today's point and click, capture every moment HD cameras. VR will evolve just the same and at a much faster clip than the decades/half century that it took for photography, film, and television to evolve.
 
The 'old guard' is mostly correct, and most people who claim all video games are 'art' clearly have not studied art.

Some video games are art. /Most/ video games however are craft, and while some craft can be interpreted as art it was created for function, not form.

Call of Duty is not art. Neither are most AAA titles being released today. They are 'craft' to the truest sense of the word and are created to shovel out the door and make money by giving people an entertaining experience. (A function)

There is a fine line between artwork and craftwork but the distinction can be made, and it is due to that distinction that I agree that most video games are not art. Just because developers employ 'artists' to sketch out the game world doesn't mean the game itself is art. I can be an artist who in the past sculpted artwork, but that doesn't mean the generic lawn gnomes I start pumping out for money are art. At that point it just becomes craft.

Didn't bother watching the video; The point of my post is that people need to think carefully about what they are saying when they are calling video games art.
 
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Mchart said:
The 'old guard' is mostly correct, and most people who claim all video games are 'art' clearly have not studied art.

Some video games are art. /Most/ video games however are craft, and while some craft can be interpreted as art it was created for function, not form.

Call of Duty is not art. Neither are most AAA titles being released today. They are 'craft' to the truest sense of the word and are created to shovel out the door and make money by giving people an entertaining experience. (A function)

There is a fine line between artwork and craftwork but the distinction can be made, and it is due to that distinction that I agree that most video games are not art. Just because developers employ 'artists' to sketch out the game world doesn't mean the game itself is art. I can be an artist who in the past sculpted artwork, but that doesn't mean the generic lawn gnomes I start pumping out for money are art. At that point it just becomes craft.

Didn't bother watching the video; The point of my post is that people need to think carefully about what they are saying when they are calling video games art.
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Why even comment without watching the video that has all the substance, you're arguing someone's stance without even hearing what that stance is.
 
USMCGrunt said:
Why even comment without watching the video that has all the substance, you're arguing someone's stance without even hearing what that stance is.
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I was replying to those saying that all games are art. The truth lies in the middle; it's not all or none.
 
USMCGrunt said:
VR will evolve just the same and at a much faster clip than the decades/half century that it took for photography, film, and television to evolve.
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VR gaming is the FMV gaming of the 21st century. Except you need to spend the equivalent of three 3DOs to utilize it.

It won't evolve anywhere beyond an expensive fad.
 
crusty_juggler said:
VR gaming is the FMV gaming of the 21st century. Except you need to spend the equivalent of three 3DOs to utilize it.

It won't evolve anywhere beyond an expensive fad.
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Yeah, no.

VR isn't for every type of game, but for sims it's a must have. I have a racing chair setup along w/ a DK2 that I use with Project Cars and the experience is incredible. VR makes it incredibly realistic and the only thing missing is the feedback from the chair itself that would make it feel like i'm in a real car.

Also you can't compare the FMV craze to VR. VR is a display method, FMV is just content.

It won't evolve anywhere beyond a fad? You haven't been around long. A better comparison of VR would be that of 3D accelerators and what they did for gaming in the '90s. For certain types of games (Like sims) not having VR would be like not running the game with 3D graphics. It's like going from classic Outrun to Need for Speed. (Great 3DO title BTW since you brought it up)
 
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USMCGrunt said:
You're missing her and mine. Her point is that throughout history, as "art" forms emerged, the incumbent arts said that the new form was not art. Video games are the new art but are still railed against by many in the old guard art forms.

My point in referencing VR is that just like how each new technology has developed from its creation to where they are at today, the quality of the production and the experience has become vastly improved. From the original silent films to today's bombastic blockbusters or the grainy, minutes long exposure time of the original cameras to today's point and click, capture every moment HD cameras. VR will evolve just the same and at a much faster clip than the decades/half century that it took for photography, film, and television to evolve.
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I'm not missing it, I just don't think it's a valid point. The naysayers are always there, not just in art. Like the naysayers of the 19th century said humans will never fly. The naysayers of the 1950s said humans will never get into space, and so on.

Stating the obvious does not equal making a point. That's why I said I don't know what's her point is. There are always people that are stuck to the old ways, who view everything new as evil, something to be feared.

3DVR made three tries already at getting a foothold in entertainment. It failed every single time. It might succed now, or it might fade into obscurity again like motion controllers.

I for one found the ps3 move to be great fun, but they completely ditched it for the next gen. They abandoned it even before that since not even Beyond Two Souls supported it, which I found odd since it was developed by Quantic Dream who made Heavy Rain which was the best example how the move can create an immersive experience.

THe first attempt with VR was in the mid nineties with clunky expensive headgear that used CRT displays that made your head ache in 15 minutes. I saw it once demoed at an event, and it was horrible. No wonder it didn't catch on.

Then the second attempt at VR came with the Shutter glasses around the turn of the century. It was cheap enough still most people ignored it. I was not one of them. I embraced it, But lack of proper support from developers and most people ignoring the technology meant it faded away again.

And then came the 3D revolution with flat TVs. Everyone wanted a 3D tv, but noone used it for anything. Even I have one, and I didn't watch a single 3D movie on it.

Now the oculus and the psvr is the fourth attempt at revolutionizing 3D This time I see price as the biggest obstacle. It's expensive so not many people will buy it. If not many people buy it, the user base will be small. So there will be not much incentive for developers to include vr support in their games. Since it won't bring to many extra sales.

No I don't wish 3DVR to fail. I'm just not ready to call this offensive a victory even before it hits the market. It would be good to see pre-order numbers but that's unlikely to happen.
 
M76 said:
Now the oculus and the psvr is the fourth attempt at revolutionizing 3D This time I see price as the biggest obstacle. It's expensive so not many people will buy it. If not many people buy it, the user base will be small. So there will be not much incentive for developers to include vr support in their games. Since it won't bring to many extra sales.

No I don't wish 3DVR to fail. I'm just not ready to call this offensive a victory even before it hits the market. It would be good to see pre-order numbers but that's unlikely to happen.
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Who backed these previous attempts? The HTC Vive has HTC and Valve backing it, both companies are massive and well established with Valve having lots of pull in the gaming industry. Oculus is, as most know by now, backed by Facebook and has the grassroots movement going for it with lots of indie devs, AAA devs, and content ready for when it's released. The PSVR has Sony developing it, Sony has in-house development teams and plenty of existing partnerships with outside software developers.

One of the problems that faces gaming is developers don't want to/can't code a game for a console and then have the time/resources to code it for PC so they take shortcuts. The great thing that is being reported is that all these VR devs are actively supporting each other to figure out how to do VR and do it right. What this SHOULD mean, is that the game developers don't have to worry about coding support for PSVR, Vive, and Rift. They just code for VR and it works across the board.

I don't know about those past attempts but the technology, partnerships, and market look to have fallen into place this time. Even if the first generation of VR products are mildly successful...the companies manufacturing these things have enough money to weather the storm.
 
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