"God of War" Creator Slams AAA Games and Their Repetitiveness

Megalith

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God of War and Twisted Metal creator David Jaffe claims that Triple AAA games are dying: while modern technology has allowed for some great visuals, Jaffe argues most are repetitive and play no different than decade-old titles. One example brought up is Naughty Dog’s Uncharted 4: A Thief's End, which “plays basically the same way as 2007's Uncharted: Drake's Fortune.”

Jaffe concludes his case, by claiming that a majority of gamers will begin to be fed up with AAA games and their repetitiveness in a few years. Or in other words, be on the same page as him. Further, The God of War creator notes that something similar happened back in the 90's when gamers and developers got sick of making mascot platformers, which is true, the market increasingly rejected mascot platformers for a while.
 

scojer

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He's done a handful of games, the most notable you mention, Twisted Metal and God of War.
Twisted Metal 1, 2, black and the 2012 version he had a hand in.
God of War 1 & 2 he had a hand in.

All of those games are similar to their predecessors - what's new in each of them?

If he's going to slam a AAA series he needs to step up and reinvent a AAA series and go "This is how it's done."

God of War 4 was a break from the mold, but that was Cory not him.
 

vegeta535

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MT are the bane of so called AAA games. Hopefully we do have a crash to reset gaming by putting companies es like EA, Activision and Ubi out of buisness.
 

emphy

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MT are the bane of so called AAA games. Hopefully we do have a crash to reset gaming by putting companies es like EA, Activision and Ubi out of buisness.

Unfortunately, those companies are likely to be able to survive a crash.
 

Burticus

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LOL and how many God of War games are there? And HD remasters? And they all play exactly the same. Actually, plays like a lot of button masher hack and slash games.

It doesn't mean he's wrong, because he isn't. I agree with him. It does make him a hypocrite though. Also, I agree I am frequently one myself.

It's not limited to gaming, either. Once someone stumbles upon a winning formula for anything, 2 things happen. First, the company who made/published/owns rights/patents will try to repeat their success... sometimes endlessly. Second... imitations. Others saw and recognized and duplicated to some extent. Think cars and airplanes and TVs / electronics / every thing that has ever been made or sold.
 

DukenukemX

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He's not wrong, and that's why both EA and Blizzard stocks are dropping fast. For me in 2017 my favourite games weren't AAA but Indie games like Hallow Knight and A Hat in Time. For 2018 I'd hate to say it but the best games seem to be exclusive to PS4, and that sucks for a PC gamer like myself who has to wait for a working PS4 emulator to play them. I'll be looking forward to Dunkey's list cause that's how I found out about some of these games.

 

Krenum

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Twisted Metal 2 is one of my most favorite games. Twisted Metal on PS3 was complete dog shit. I don't think David has much room to talk here.
 

Spire3660

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He's done a handful of games, the most notable you mention, Twisted Metal and God of War.
Twisted Metal 1, 2, black and the 2012 version he had a hand in.
God of War 1 & 2 he had a hand in.

All of those games are similar to their predecessors - what's new in each of them?

If he's going to slam a AAA series he needs to step up and reinvent a AAA series and go "This is how it's done."

God of War 4 was a break from the mold, but that was Cory not him.

Oh boy, you stepped in it now. Twisted Metal 2 took all the good of its predecessor and fixed most of the bad. It was iterative, but WHAT AN ITERATION!!!!!. God of War 2 is considered the pinnacle of the PS2 software library, do you have any idea what an achievement that is? God of War 3 gave us Kratos' world at an unprecedented scale. Assaulting Olympus on the back of Gaia was AMAZING.
 

DukenukemX

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Wrong. You can buy a ps4 yknow.
Why would I do that when I have a PC 10x more powerful than a PS4? I bought a Xbox 360 that I played Halo Reach and that's it, and the stupid thing just collects dust. Why? Cause every other game that was on PC and console I played on PC. I played Breath of the Wild on PC with graphics a Switch owner would dream of, with mouse and keyboard controls and a Android phone for those stupid puzzles they have. I've played Demon Souls on PC cause From Software can make Dark Souls on PC but not Demon Souls. Now Red Dead Redemption 2 isn't on PC which I can only imagine RockStar in 2-3 years is going to release a remastered version that's going to be on PS5 as well as PC. If you don't like it then port your stupid games to PC already. I don't need to spend $200 on a shit box just to play a handful of games when I just spent $95 for a RX 470 for my HTPC that would run circles around a PS4.
 

tetris42

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Why would I do that when I have a PC 10x more powerful than a PS4? I bought a Xbox 360 that I played Halo Reach and that's it, and the stupid thing just collects dust. Why? Cause every other game that was on PC and console I played on PC. I played Breath of the Wild on PC with graphics a Switch owner would dream of, with mouse and keyboard controls and a Android phone for those stupid puzzles they have. I've played Demon Souls on PC cause From Software can make Dark Souls on PC but not Demon Souls. Now Red Dead Redemption 2 isn't on PC which I can only imagine RockStar in 2-3 years is going to release a remastered version that's going to be on PS5 as well as PC. If you don't like it then port your stupid games to PC already. I don't need to spend $200 on a shit box just to play a handful of games when I just spent $95 for a RX 470 for my HTPC that would run circles around a PS4.
Well obviously, since you have an x86 machine with AMD graphics, you need to buy another x86 machine with AMD graphics to play 5 games since you're artificially locked out. It's capitalism at its finest.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Why would I do that when I have a PC 10x more powerful than a PS4? I bought a Xbox 360 that I played Halo Reach and that's it, and the stupid thing just collects dust. Why? Cause every other game that was on PC and console I played on PC. I played Breath of the Wild on PC with graphics a Switch owner would dream of, with mouse and keyboard controls and a Android phone for those stupid puzzles they have. I've played Demon Souls on PC cause From Software can make Dark Souls on PC but not Demon Souls. Now Red Dead Redemption 2 isn't on PC which I can only imagine RockStar in 2-3 years is going to release a remastered version that's going to be on PS5 as well as PC. If you don't like it then port your stupid games to PC already. I don't need to spend $200 on a shit box just to play a handful of games when I just spent $95 for a RX 470 for my HTPC that would run circles around a PS4.
Sounds like you are just justifying piracy imho. You want to play the games and instead of paying the cost to play them you come up with a bullshit argument to justify it. Either but the console or don't play the game person. Otherwise you're a giant hypocrite and a pirate.
 

MacLeod

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His opinion could be any number of Hardforum posts dating back a few years now. Old news. AAA games have been repetitive and lackluster for a while now.

It's EA that's most responsible for the decline in AAA game quality with maybe Ubisoft a close runner up and Bioware's Mass Effect is the prime example. Forcing developers to change their game making style in order to appeal to the masses and maximize profits. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for maximized profits but when you castrate and water down your product to appeal to a wider audience, you usually wind up appealing to nobody because the OG fan base that loved the game in the beginning isn't going to like the watered down version and the great unwashed masses that EA is trying to appeal to would rather be playing Fortnite.

It's a damn shame too because I loved the big money AAA titles. Great budgets, voice acting, story writers, excitement and so on.
 

Dudhunter

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His opinion could be any number of Hardforum posts dating back a few years now. Old news. AAA games have been repetitive and lackluster for a while now.

It's EA that's most responsible for the decline in AAA game quality with maybe Ubisoft a close runner up and Bioware's Mass Effect is the prime example. Forcing developers to change their game making style in order to appeal to the masses and maximize profits. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for maximized profits but when you castrate and water down your product to appeal to a wider audience, you usually wind up appealing to nobody because the OG fan base that loved the game in the beginning isn't going to like the watered down version and the great unwashed masses that EA is trying to appeal to would rather be playing Fortnite.

It's a damn shame too because I loved the big money AAA titles. Great budgets, voice acting, story writers, excitement and so on.

Bethesda is not exempt from that list.
 

DukenukemX

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Sounds like you are just justifying piracy imho. You want to play the games and instead of paying the cost to play them you come up with a bullshit argument to justify it. Either but the console or don't play the game person. Otherwise you're a giant hypocrite and a pirate.
Port the games and I'll buy it... for cheap cause PC users don't pay max price. Why pirate when going to G2A is just as good and legal? Humble Bundle is just as good. Just cause PS4 had the best games of 2018 doesn't mean I'm going to go out and buy that waste of space. Meanwhile I might have a use for that old 360 I bought long ago.

 

sfsuphysics

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Sounds like you are just justifying piracy imho. You want to play the games and instead of paying the cost to play them you come up with a bullshit argument to justify it. Either but the console or don't play the game person. Otherwise you're a giant hypocrite and a pirate.
Well to be fair all he said he wanted was an emulator, you can play discs off emulators (or you used to, not sure if you could if a PS4 one existed) so it is possible he could actually buy the game to play it (theoretically).
 
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Talk Is CHEAP, especially coming from a veteran within the industry.

And no one dared asked a follow up question right then about what is he going to do about it.is he

1. setting up a industry lobby to persuade investors to change their production directive ?
2. go on a nationwide tour to persuade buyers to shun these games ?
3. divest all holdings in companies whom continue this trend ?


Like those indie interviews where they proclaim as game prices being too low, but not following up with the question whether they are going to raise their game price or if expected game sales numbers offset inflation of production costs

Or those interviews with Molyneux, Carmack, etc
 
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Can we just go back to every game being a turn based strategy game please? Except with AAA trimmings?

What needs to end is the RPG progressions and open worlds forced onto every game. I can't tell you how let down I am everytime I see an open world collectathon. What I wouldn't give for a nice straight forward hallway shooter with perfectly executed set pieces.
 

kirbyrj

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Isn't that the point of a game sequel? You liked the original so you play a game with similar mechanics with a different environment and story. If you wanted a new game, why don't you just play a new game?
 

mjz_5

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Sounds like you are just justifying piracy imho. You want to play the games and instead of paying the cost to play them you come up with a bullshit argument to justify it. Either but the console or don't play the game person. Otherwise you're a giant hypocrite and a pirate.

Totally agreed
 

Rizen

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Port the games and I'll buy it... for cheap cause PC users don't pay max price. Why pirate when going to G2A is just as good and legal? Humble Bundle is just as good. Just cause PS4 had the best games of 2018 doesn't mean I'm going to go out and buy that waste of space. Meanwhile I might have a use for that old 360 I bought long ago.

Good games cost money, being cheap doesn't help produce good games.

G2A is terrible for the industry and there have been many issues with their keys. Don't support them.
 

scojer

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Kinsaras

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I don't see this happening anytime soon. The average gamer goes with what they know and rarely try any new titles. I can't get most of my gamer friends to buy anything outside of Call of Duty and Madden.
 

Merc1138

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Isn't that the point of a game sequel? You liked the original so you play a game with similar mechanics with a different environment and story. If you wanted a new game, why don't you just play a new game?
Yes and no. Yes, you probably wanted an experience that was similar in some regards, but at the same time some AAA game franchises have gotten so repetitive it's difficult to even tell them apart from previous iterations at times(and I'm not even talking about sports games).

But yeah, you're right. A consumer has the choice that if they've gotten tired of a franchise being repetitive, they can just move on and play something else.
 

DukenukemX

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Good games cost money, being cheap doesn't help produce good games.

G2A is terrible for the industry and there have been many issues with their keys. Don't support them.
G2A are games sold in other countries for cheap. Cause supply and demand isn't what drives prices in the gaming industry but what you're willing to pay. Just turns out that people who live in poor countries are willing to pay a lot less than those who live in wealthy countries. I've bought many games from them and have had no issues. You ever buy a Windows 10 license for $15? It's the same idea.

No thanks, I like to play games that don't have delays.
 

MaZa

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Except as far as I know G2A and its sister Kinguin are not completely legit, a lot of the cheap keys are blackmarket keys bought with stolen credit card numbers and sold to launder money and unlike piracy it directly harms the developers because they have to pay back to the credit card companies. Sometimes those blackmarket keys end up disabled too. Some developers have said outright that they'd rather have people pirate their games than buy from G2A. CDKeys is a legit company but their stock varies a lot depending on how many keys they can buy with bulk discounts.

*edit* For clarification, G2A does not participate in money laundering directly, it is just a marketplace for anonymous sellers but they benefit from each sale, legit and fraudulent.
 
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Rizen

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G2A are games sold in other countries for cheap. Cause supply and demand isn't what drives prices in the gaming industry but what you're willing to pay. Just turns out that people who live in poor countries are willing to pay a lot less than those who live in wealthy countries.
No it's more like when you live in Poland and make 1/6 the money of someone in Germany or the UK, you can't afford to pay the equivalent of $60 USD. Cost of living is a thing and companies adjust prices regionally for this reason. Exploiting this is what leads to region locking and having to jump through all sorts of hoops to buy games.

Except as far as I know G2A and its sister Kinguin are not completely legit, a lot of the cheap keys are blackmarket keys bought with stolen credit card numbers and sold to launder money and unlike piracy it directly harms the developers because they have to pay back to the credit card companies. Sometimes those blackmarket keys end up disabled too. Some developers have said outright that they'd rather have people pirate their games than buy from G2A. CDKeys is a legit company but their stock varies a lot depending on how many keys they can buy with bulk discounts.

*edit* For clarification, G2A does not participate in money laundering directly, it is just a marketplace for anonymous sellers but they benefit from each sale, legit and fraudulent.
This 100%. G2A is scummy as fuck.
 

MaZa

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I’ve never heard of that regarding Kinguin and I’ve bought tons of things from them. They also have a refund policy (if you opt in for a small fee) if the key doesn’t work. Do you have anything that officially supports what you’re saying? Because that’s quite a huge accusation and, if true, I’ll happily switch to CDKeys from now on. But I’ve never had any issues with keys not working or eventually getting disabled.

https://www.pcgamer.com/tinybuild-claims-g2a-sold-450000-worth-of-its-keys-without-paying-a-penny/

And here is G2A's cringeworthy response with a lot of complex words but saying absolutely nothing.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/21/1...ring-and-the-future-of-his-online-marketplace

This is how it essentially works.

https://www.kitsuga.com/2017/05/03/g2a-fraud-is-worse-than-piracy/


I do not know if Kinguin is any way affiliated with G2A but their business model is eeriely similar. I MAY be throwing Kinguin under the bus here because that site does not get discussed often when the dark side of G2A is spoken.

Also doesn't it ring any alarm bells why they fricking SELL a buyer protection, something that should be mandatory? They know damn well that a lot of the keys have suspicious origin but protection costs an extra fee. G2A used to have the same "protection program" as Kinguin does. I don't know if they still do but I'll never buy a single thing from them anymore.
 

MaZa

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That’s awful, but what stops people from doing the exact same thing on CDKeys?

They are not a marketplace. They buy keys for cheap themselves with bulk discounts and during sales and so on, and then sell them for a slight profit.
 

Hatriot

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Yeah? Those of us on the PC have been playing non AAA games for decades. Some of the biggest games ever made never touched a AAA studio. Counter-Strike. Original Battlefield. Minecraft. Who are you telling this to exactly? The accountants at these studios who stick with the Madden 88-Infinity yearly release model are the ones to blame.
 

zkostik

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God of War and Twisted Metal creator David Jaffe claims that Triple AAA games are dying: while modern technology has allowed for some great visuals, Jaffe argues most are repetitive and play no different than decade-old titles. One example brought up is Naughty Dog’s Uncharted 4: A Thief's End, which “plays basically the same way as 2007's Uncharted: Drake's Fortune.”

Jaffe concludes his case, by claiming that a majority of gamers will begin to be fed up with AAA games and their repetitiveness in a few years. Or in other words, be on the same page as him. Further, The God of War creator notes that something similar happened back in the 90's when gamers and developers got sick of making mascot platformers, which is true, the market increasingly rejected mascot platformers for a while.

To some degree I agree with this guy, though I do feel that this repetitiveness stems from gamers getting lazy. I miss old games which didn't held your damn hand and you had to figure shit out and got your ass handed to you over and over again. This is one of the reasons I am really enjoying Kingdom Come Deliverance being one of these old skool themed hard ass games. Though I'm also open to some simpler games as well, just depends on my mood and how tired I am. I do however have an issue with overall bottom line of many games today being so dumbed down. I used to blame consoles for that but it might in fact be something else because older console games were more complex than what we see these days.
 
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