GN: Intel PCIe Socketable Computer: Tear-Down of Ghost Canyon NUC SFF PC

Snowdog

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GN tears down the nifty new Intel NUC. I am hoping this takes off and spawns more variations and cases:


Also, I would really like AMD to get in the NUC/SFF game sponsering some alternative designs of it's own.

Update. You can also plug the element card inside your current PC, to have a PC in your PC:
Intel’s new NUC 9 can live inside your gaming desktop as a 2nd streaming PC

So you could, say, plug the NUC 9 Compute Element into a spare PCIe slot on your existing gaming PC’s motherboard. A PC within a PC. The two won’t communicate, but the available ports out of the rear of the Compute Element would make it a worthy streaming PC for high quality encoding or capture card surrogate.
Yes, it’ll work. We’ve tried it,” Faisal Habib, consumer product line manager at Intel, says. “They won’t talk to each other, but it is an independent system within another PC. You don’t have to buy a power supply, you don’t have to buy anything other than the Compute Element.
 
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Shit... I have been rocking one of these for at least six months now:

https://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/DeskMini A300 Series/

I currently have it configured with a 3400G, 16 GB of 3200 Mhz RAM, 512 MB M.2 Drive and a 750 GB Junk/Swap Drive. Runs amazingly well, and kind of hoping I will be able to drop a 7nm processor into it. Not sure if that's feasible, but the chipset does allow me to OC things so it might not be as bullshit as I initially thought it was.
 
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sc5mu93

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GN tears down the nifty new Intel NUC. I am hoping this takes off and spawns more variations and cases:


Also, I would really like AMD to get in the NUC/SFF game sponsering some alternative designs of it's own.
what is with the creepy ghost on the left at the 44 second mark?
 

Snowdog

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Shit... I have been rocking one of these for at least six months now:

https://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/DeskMini A300 Series/

I currently have it configured with a 3400G, 16 GB of 3200 Mhz RAM, 512 MB M.2 Drive and a 750 GB Junk/Swap Drive. Runs amazingly well, and kind of hoping I will be able to drop a 7nm processor into it. Not sure if that's feasible, but the chipset does allow me to OC things so it might not be as bullshit as I initially thought it was.
Clearly didn't watch the video. Neither is equivalent to Ghost Canyon computer on a PCIe card, nor are they AMD efforts, nor are they pushing a new form factor.
 
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Clearly didn't watch the video.
I am at work, though I am watching the video now. However, the response about the AMD NUC... Well, I was simply responding that there is one and I've been using it. The ASROCK industrial one might be new but they've had a NUC out for almost a year now.

Finished the video, what magical nugget of knowledge was I supposed to glean from it? That AMD doesn't have a modular PC? Ok... That's obvious. ;)
 
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Snowdog

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I am at work, though I am watching the video now. However, the response about the AMD NUC... Well, I was simply responding that there is one and I've been using it. The ASROCK industrial one might be new but they'ev had a NUC out for almost a year now.
AMD didn't design Asrocks product. I want AMD themselves to make a push to getting some new interesting new form factors. You get a lot more support when it's the manufacturer themselves (like 3rd party cases), rather than a one off from one of the OEMs.
 
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AMD didn't design Asrocks product. I want AMD themselves to make a push to getting some new interesting new form factors. You get a lot more support when it's the manufacturer themselves (like 3rd party cases), rather than a one off from one of the OEMs.
Ok, I understand your point. I think the problem right now is market penetration. Until I actually see the laptop acceptance that Lisa Su talked about in her keynote, I'm not believing shit. When they have enough interest, I'm sure they will continue to innovate. However, the Intel innovation seems like a desperate ploy to distract from the fact that they don't have shit in the processor space. These chips are all deeply flawed... regardless of form factor innovation.

Can we just use this topic to talk about the fucking product in the OP and not have it become yet another Intel vs AMD dick waving contest?
Thank you. I am curious how Intel is handling the bandwidth communication in the system since it really doesn't have a traditional MB. Looks cool as all hell, how practical is this though? What kind of insane premium does this form factor carry?
 

cjcox

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I think what made the Skull Canyon NUC a thing was power in just a slightly bigger size. Not I'm a fan of the the form factor. Cabling tends to destroy the "size" argument (well, for me anyway).

I mean, there's lots of options in the "tiny" space, some with discrete GPU (like Airtop, etc.). We'll see how popular this becomes.
 
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That is a neat idea/product they have there. I'd love to have one to throw in my main server to eliminate the separate box I have just to run pfsense (I know there are other options like virtualization etc but being a hardware tinkerer, I prefer to have dedicated hardware for each system because reasons).

Edit: after watching the video, the product is not what I thought it was. I thought, based off the video thumbnail only, that it was essentially a PC on a board you could slot into any computer to basically add a second computer to a system. This would be neat for not only my use case but for streamers, as well (and a plethora of other use cases I can't even fathom). If it used a laptop CPU, it could even possibly be bus powered but adding additional power hookups is obviously ideal.
 
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1_rick

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Ok, I understand your point. I think the problem right now is market penetration. Until I actually see the laptop acceptance that Lisa Su talked about in her keynote, I'm not believing shit. When they have enough interest, I'm sure they will continue to innovate. However, the Intel innovation seems like a desperate ploy to distract from the fact that they don't have shit in the processor space. These chips are all deeply flawed... regardless of form factor innovation.


Thank you. I am curious how Intel is handling the bandwidth communication in the system since it really doesn't have a traditional MB. Looks cool as all hell, how practical is this though? What kind of insane premium does this form factor carry?
Given that there's only two slots sitting on a single backplane it doesn't seem like there'd be much of a problem with a single video card? If the CPU is talking ot the video card, you've got 16 lanes of "listen" on one card, and 16 lanes of "talk" on the other, or vice versa. It seems like you'd only have a problem when both sides are trying to transmit at once, but maybe that's not how this works.
 

Derangel

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I think what made the Skull Canyon NUC a thing was power in just a slightly bigger size. Not I'm a fan of the the form factor. Cabling tends to destroy the "size" argument (well, for me anyway).

I mean, there's lots of options in the "tiny" space, some with discrete GPU (like Airtop, etc.). We'll see how popular this becomes.
I hope it gets popular enough to see more of this stuff. I think the concept really cool and I'd love to see it take off and potentially see some cheaper options appear. I have no need for a NUC with an i9 class processor, but something like this with an i5 could be right up my alley.
 

Snowdog

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I hope it gets popular enough to see more of this stuff. I think the concept really cool and I'd love to see it take off and potentially see some cheaper options appear. I have no need for a NUC with an i9 class processor, but something like this with an i5 could be right up my alley.
My thoughts exactly. Especially since i5 is going to be 6C/12T...
 

Derangel

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Looks like Razer is getting in on this as well:


Fits a 12" GPU. Sounds like they're going to sell the case stand alone.

I have serious concerns about cooling with the top and those two 80(?)mm fans being the only thing bringing air into the case.
 

Snowdog

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Starting at 2K? It may not be smaller, but wouldn't it be way cheaper to just get a slim itx case, regular itx MB/cpu, and memory?
Not initially, but if the Form Factor takes off, you could see getting the CPU cards, which are essentially the MB, from OEM MB builders with an empty socket, and you could also see AMD cards to insert.
 

defaultluser

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That is a neat idea/product they have there. I'd love to have one to throw in my main server to eliminate the separate box I have just to run pfsense (I know there are other options like virtualization etc but being a hardware tinkerer, I prefer to have dedicated hardware for each system because reasons).

Edit: after watching the video, the product is not what I thought it was. I thought, based off the video thumbnail only, that it was essentially a PC on a board you could slot into any computer to basically add a second computer to a system. This would be neat for not only my use case but for streamers, as well (and a plethora of other use cases I can't even fathom). If it used a laptop CPU, it could even possibly be bus powered but adding additional power hookups is obviously ideal.
Yah, the maker of this post needs to learn how to English. That title is confusing.

It's nothing new (fit desktop CPU and rotated GPU inside small chassis, like the Node 202 has for the last 5 years), but I guarantee it will be just as overpriced as current NUCs are.
 

Snowdog

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Yah, the maker of this post needs to learn how to English. That title is confusing.
Are you referring to my OP title here?

I know "how to English", thank you very much.

That post title, is the the exact title of the source video.

I always use the source title, when I post front page news.
 

Mazzspeed

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I sell tonnes of NUC's, people just don't want ugly towers anymore. Looking forward to these devices hitting the market.
 

defaultluser

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Are you referring to my OP title here?

I know "how to English", thank you very much.

That post title, is the the exact title of the source video.

I always use the source title, when I post front page news.

The terms: "
PCIe Socketable Computer"

sounds a lot like a single-board-computer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-board_computer

What you're actually describing is a NUC-BRANDED CASE WITH PCIE SLOT AND SOCKETED CPU.

I'm not the only person in this thread who was confused. Learn the difference, then try rewiriting your headline?
 

cjcox

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I sell tonnes of NUC's, people just don't want ugly towers anymore. Looking forward to these devices hitting the market.
But, "ugly towers" often lead to builds that can last a long long time. But if throwing away your workstation every 6mos. is the "norm", then yes, don't tower.
 

777

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$1500 is overpriced for a fancy PCIe riser. What's the difference between this and strapping a blower cooler on to an ITX board with socketed CPU? And why is the blower intake facing the GPU instead of the outer side of the case?
 

Snowdog

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The terms: "
PCIe Socketable Computer"

sounds a lot like a single-board-computer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-board_computer

What you're actually describing is a NUC-BRANDED CASE WITH PCIE SLOT AND SOCKETED CPU.

I'm not the only person in this thread who was confused. Learn the difference, then try rewiriting your headline?
First: You are missing the point. That isn't my title. That is the title of the Video.


Second: This is NOT just a NUC case with PCIe slot and socketed CPU.

It is Indeed a complete computer on a PCIe card.

It plugs into a backplane, NOT a motherboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backplane

Note the caption on this image: "A single-board computer installed into a passive backplane"

800px-SBC-Backplane.jpg
 

defaultluser

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Desktop computers have been doing that for decades. Only towers had enough space to be able to build the expansion slots into the motherboard.

41UiO7fDGjL._AC_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/DELL-SLOT-RISER-CARD-MOTHERBOARD/dp/B00450FI62

That picture I just posted tells you a whole lot more about this than some cryptic video PLUS it's clickbauit confusing headline. And yoru fancy NUC is still doing the exact same Pcie Slot Adapter trick the Node 202 does, except there may be multiple slots in the backplane.

Nothing innovative here, move along. If you're going to expand all the parts in your computer, why pay the premium for a NUC?

Just because the big OEMS stopped using riser cards once PCIe made it harder doesn't mean the trick has been lost.
 
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toast0

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I'm not sure how this is much different than a mini-itx with a 90 degree riser for the video card; I guess it's a little nicer, because the CPU card and the GPU would be the same shape. Using standard PCI-e slots would seem to bottleneck the CPU card at 16 lanes to the rest of the backplane, which could be important in some applications.
 

Snowdog

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Desktop computers have been doing that for decades. Only towers had enough space to be able to build the expansion slots into the motherboard.

View attachment 213939

https://www.amazon.com/DELL-SLOT-RISER-CARD-MOTHERBOARD/dp/B00450FI62

That picture tells us a whole lot more about this than some cryptic video PLUS it's clickbauit confusing headline. And it's still doing the exact same Pcie Slot Adapter trick the Node 202 does, except it's looking more MicroATX--sized in the number of slots.
Backplanes are not new, but that's not a backplane. It's a PCIe MB slot extender.

You are essentially complaining about an accurate headline, because you still don't get it.

This NUC has a socketable computer card, in a backplane. Look up VME bus computers, to see what a backplane computer is. Or read the link so you can see the difference.

Not sure what you think a socketable computer is, but since it is precisely a computer on a board, plugging into a backplane, and that is what this NUC is.

Thus, Your assumption is wrong, and there is nothing wrong with the headline.

Instead of blaming the headline, read up on socket-able computers and backplanes, and you will discover that is exactly what we have here.
 

Mazzspeed

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But, "ugly towers" often lead to builds that can last a long long time. But if throwing away your workstation every 6mos. is the "norm", then yes, don't tower.
The bulk of users aren't gamers, a NUC with an I3-8109U will last them a good seven years with great performance. People don't want ugly towers.
 
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The terms: "
PCIe Socketable Computer"

sounds a lot like a single-board-computer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-board_computer

What you're actually describing is a NUC-BRANDED CASE WITH PCIE SLOT AND SOCKETED CPU.

I'm not the only person in this thread who was confused. Learn the difference, then try rewiriting your headline?
We need to stop this kind of crap. The OP said it wasn't his title, it was the title of the article he was nice enough to share with us.

I'm seeing it more and more around here; people crapping on the ones that are doing the news/article posting. On my end, the confusion was my own. I posted before I watched the video and knew the full story.
 

Auer

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Also..: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cyberpower-nuc-nox-mini-pc-ces

Intel seems to be getting plenty of traction with its Compute Element card, which combines a 45-Watt H Series CPU, M.2 storage and other components on a PCIe add-in card. The company has its own lunchbox-shaped Ghost Canyon model. Razer is working on a longer, sleeker Tomahawk desktop that the company says will support up to an RTX 2080. And Cyperpower’s Nox Mini is a similarly long and low form factor in a 7.5-liter NUC case and power supply made by Cooler Master, which will come in black or white.

R4kEe4BxuxTgGorShFmvQK-650-80.jpg
 

cjcox

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The bulk of users aren't gamers, a NUC with an I3-8109U will last them a good seven years with great performance. People don't want ugly towers.
Hmmm... you're not really making a good case for this new NUC are you?
 

Mazzspeed

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Hmmm... you're not really making a good case for this new NUC are you?
Actually I am, you're overstating the needs of most users.

A NUC with the above processor, 16GB of ram and a fast NVME SSD is blazing fast for everything they want to do. My daughter runs a similar NUC with an i5 and Intel Iris graphics and it plays all the games she wants to play and handles all her schoolwork including editing her video's and her basic Photoshop needs no problem - Furthermore, it's now around five years old and still doing fine.

With the exception of hugely GPU intensive application, it would serve the needs of 75% of users out there - In fact they rave about the damn things.
 

Hagrid

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Actually I am, you're overstating the needs of most users.

A NUC with the above processor, 16GB of ram and a fast NVME SSD is blazing fast for everything they want to do. My daughter runs a similar NUC with an i5 and Intel Iris graphics and it plays all the games she wants to play and handles all her schoolwork including editing her video's and her basic Photoshop needs no problem - Furthermore, it's now around five years old and still doing fine.

With the exception of hugely GPU intensive application, it would serve the needs of 75% of users out there - In fact they rave about the damn things.
But at 10x the cost?
 

Mazzspeed

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But at 10x the cost?
Not really, no. Considering what you get they're usually cheaper than a tower with a decent case.

People will pay a touch more in order to loose the ugly tower, and they have three years of fantastic Intel warranty.
 
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