Glossy (or non-grainy semi-glossy), VESA mounting, 21-24", IPS?

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crawfish

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I just got my HP Z24i (model number D7P53A8, panel Samsung LTM240CL01), and coming from the NEC 20WMGX2, the coating is noticeably grainy-looking, though nowhere near as bad as I remember the Dell 2007WFP. There is also a brightness shift at a normal 26" or so viewing distance; when I'm looking at the middle of the screen, the left and right sides appear slightly dimmer than the middle area, and this begins about 6" from the edges and gets worse with distance from center. When I move my head in front of these areas, they become fully white, and the center gets dimmer, so it's not a uniformity thing. This is after calibrating to 40 fL with Calman and an i1D3 meter.

While it's not a bad monitor, the Z24i is a downgrade in these respects from my six y/o NEC, and I don't know if I'm going to keep it. I want the following:

1. Glossy coating.
2. VESA mount.
3. Size 21-24".
4. IPS, or something with wide viewing angles, preferably without the aforementioned brightness shift.

Is such a monitor available? The glossy ones I've run across all lack the VESA mount.

And on the semi-glossy spectrum, where does the Z24i fit? Might there be non-grainy semi-glossy coatings out there? FWIW, the datasheet I found says the LTM240CL01 is Haze 47%, Hard Coating 3H.
 
What you want does not exist and all of the glossy models suffer from excessive overshoot ghosting (try using the HP's higher overdrive setting and imagine that the glossy models ghosting is far, far worse) and most use LED PWM Dimming (Read about the Side Effects) except for the Acer H226HL (23" uses PWM) and S236HL, neither of which are VESA mountable.

The S236HL's overshoot ghosting (don't know if this works with the H series) can be reduced by changing the overdrive settings in the service menu. All Dell S series models suffer from the same obvious overshoot ghosting, lack overdrive settings and only the 27" is PWM free but it sucks anyway.

=DEAD='s Review+Overdrive Reduction Instructions for the S236HL (use Google or Chrome to translate)

http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/5731...testirovanie_monitora_Acer_S236HLtmjj.html#15

If you want a good, VESA mountable glossy monitor you will be limited to 27" 2560x1440 Overlord Temptest and Crossover (2720MDP & 2730MD) models.
 
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That's disappointing, but thanks for the confirmation. Any experience with the Dell P2314T? It's a touch monitor so more expensive but otherwise meets my goals, though it's only 1080p. I like that it has 2 HDMIs, USB 3, and a good warranty. I saw a forum post that says it doesn't use PWM and a French review that says it has minor ghosting.
 
It uses edge-to-edge glass (the Apple 27" and Dell S series also use glass)=gray blacks regardless of the contrast ratio or brightness used and it is far more reflective vs. your NEC.

Example: Glass vs. Semi-glossy (same coating as the Z24i)

Glass vs. Glossy (left)

All displays were calibrated and set to the same brightness and also have similar contrast ratios (850-900:1)

HP offers true glossy 1080p monitors (Envy, 27BW, 27Xi), but they all use PWM. PRAD & overclock.ru have reviewed the Envy and Cnet "reviewed," the 27Xi. Local stores carry the 27BW which I tested and found uses PWM (via cellphone method).
 
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My 20WMGX2 is about as reflective as my iPod Touch 5gen, which is glass. I can put the Touch up against it, and under the same conditions, my reflection appears equally bright in each. They are both mirror-like. OTOH, I also have a Logitech K750 keyboard, and its solar panels are far more reflective than the Touch, while the glossy black keyboard top is more like the Touch.

I set up my computer room to be very well-suited to the NEC. The Dell's glass bezel would be a new issue, but sliding my Touch around the bezel of the HP with the HP on a white web page and thus illuminating me, that's not a problem under my normal lighting conditions. OTOH, if the Dell is more like the solar panels on my K750, I would see some mild reflections. Maybe I'll go do a crazy experiment or two at Best Buy, and if I can't find the Dell there, check out the Apple displays, assuming they're similar.

About the contrast ratio, 900:1 would be a step up from the NEC, which I measured around 600-700:1 IIRC. At 35 fL peak white, the HP measures 899:1. I'm not hoping for great black levels. I have a Panasonic ST60 for that. :) I will say the HP auto-calibrated very nicely and wasn't bad OOTB.
 
Ipod's are different. The Dell will look exactly the same as the Samsung in my pictures and your NEC will appear to have deeper blacks. I've seen VA panels (Sony 4K tv & Dell S2440L) with 3,000:1 contrast ratios and the blacks still look gray due to the use of glass vs. an anti-reflective coating (glossy coatings are actually AR coatings).
 
Went to Best Buy, and I learned that a glass screen is no guarantee of quality. For the Dells, they ranged from shockingly bad to fine, and I have no idea which one the P2314T would resemble. The first one is a monitor, and the last two are all-in-ones.

S2240T - Horribly grainy, worse than the Z24i. (VA Panel per Dell web site.)
IO2350T - Grainy, with faint diagonal lines in white; lines are absent from Z24i.
XPS018-2727 - Seemed fine, better than Z24i. (IPS per Dell web site.)

Looking at other brands, the only that was good across the board was Apple. I really wish they made a display smaller than 27".
 
crawfish said:
I really wish they made a display smaller than 27".
Click to expand...

Me too. I remember the days (even in 2010 when I bought the U2410) that it was an option to buy the Apple Cinema Display at 24". The only IPS glossy screen. I chose the U2410 over the ACD because in those days HDMI was very important to me and the ACD didn't had one but nowadays I wish it still was an option.

Anyway, I just ordered a Z24i. I was tempted to buy a U2412M but reading this forum I learn about the Z24i.
 
crawfish said:
S2240T - Horribly grainy, worse than the Z24i. (VA Panel per Dell web site.)
IO2350T - Grainy, with faint diagonal lines in white; lines are absent from Z24i.
XPS018-2727 - Seemed fine, better than Z24i. (IPS per Dell web site.)
Click to expand...

Sometimes manufacturers put glass over top of grainy matte coatings (Sony Playstation Display) which might be the case with the all-in-one PC+Displays. Check out the Apple Cinema Display or Dell S2440L (if they have it connected to a PC) they have set up (use an image like this one) and it will look exactly the same as the Samsung S27B970D from my pictures. The 23-27" Dell S series models use glass (pic of the 27" displaying black next to a glossy monitor).
 
insoc123 said:
Anyway, I just ordered a Z24i. I was tempted to buy a U2412M but reading this forum I learn about the Z24i.
Click to expand...

I think there's a really good chance you'll like it. The graininess and brightness shift I observed are both very minimal, and text looks great. It calibrated very nicely to sRGB. It has no clouding or backlight bleed to speak of, just the expected IPS glow. No pixel defects, either. I think it's a very solid product, just not quite perfect in every way. :D
 
After a few more days with it, the Z24i's coating is light enough that I can sometimes forget it's there, so I'm leaning towards keeping it.

The Z24i uniformity is the remaining issue though. What I thought was just an artifact of off-angle viewing is also part uniformity, and the lower right quadrant is the main problem. The percentages are relative to the value in the center of the screen, and I wasn't able to improve it with brightness/contrast. Based on reviews, this doesn't seem atypical, but does anyone think a second sample might be significantly better?

+03% +00% -00% +01% +02% -03% -02% -04% -01%
-00% -04% -03% -01% +00% -02% -03% -05% -03%
-07% -08% -05% -01% +00% -04% -07% -11% -10%
-06% -08% -05% -01% +00% -04% -08% -14% -15%
-09% -04% -02% -00% -02% -00% -01% -09% -13%

It's quite noticeable for certain colors like RGB(246,246,246), which some web forums use to shade columns; for example, the far left and right columns on this MSI forum page look different when one is in the center of the screen and the other is on the right of the screen.

There are a couple of monitors I know of that have a uniformity compensation feature, the NEC P242W and the high end Eizos. I might spring for the NEC at ~ $700, but Newegg reviews say it emits a high pitch noise, and the svethardware.cz review describes a "whistling", which is a dealbreaker. There hasn't been much discussion on it elsewhere.

ETA: I just bought the prad P242W review, and it too mentioned a "faint whir" coming from their sample. I've yet to find anyone saying this monitor is silent.
 
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