GK104 = GTX 680 (confirmed), paper launching soon [SA]

I wonder if it ever occurred to GoldenTiger AMD set the bar "low" because they have 8000 series card to complete against kepler GK110. Gotta love brand loyalty. I got i7-3930k with crossfire 6970 and AMD 8120FX with 580 GTX. Neither one is giving me performance issues. People complain about AMD driver issues especially in crossfire I haven't ran into any. I really don't care who makes what as long as it's good and competitive. I think people just like to stir the pot just cuz they heard he said she said.
 
GoldenTiger said:
It isn't what I said, despite you thinking so due to a skewed perspective. I would repeat what I said but your skill to warp and take things out of context is great. It was a followup to an earlier post, stating it's based on info Kyle mentioned, and that I was speculating off of that. Have a good day.
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I took it in the context of that single post like most people would...I didn't read your previous one and didn't care too. MAYBE if you would have inlcuded the previous one it might not look that way but it from all your Kepler posts you sure seem like you bleed green...
 
Seireitei said:
I wonder if it ever occurred to GoldenTiger AMD set the bar "low" because they have 8000 series card to complete against kepler GK110. Gotta love brand loyalty.
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And we know AMD's 8000 series will compete with GK110 how?

It's bad enough having rumors about the performance of an unrealeased card, but having rumors about an unreleased card "competing with" an even further out unreleased card is getting kind of crazy.

dook43 said:
NVidiaTiger doth protest too much :p
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Let's be real here, there are just as many AMD fanboys around as nVidia.
 
MavericK96 said:
It's bad enough having rumors about the performance of an unrealeased card, but having rumors about an unreleased card "competing with" an even further out unreleased card is getting kind of crazy.
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That's some [H]ard speculation there! :p
 
MavericK96 said:
And we know AMD's 8000 series will compete with GK110 how?

It's bad enough having rumors about the performance of an unrealeased card, but having rumors about an unreleased card "competing with" an even further out unreleased card is getting kind of crazy.



Let's be real here, there are just as many AMD fanboys around as nVidia.
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Absolutely. I am an AMD fanboy.

The problem is that some won't admit it.
 
dook43 said:
Absolutely. I am an AMD fanboy.

The problem is that some won't admit it.
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Not just some... MOST of them won't admit it.....And obviously they are....

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Like I said awhile back, they ran into problems again, but not as bad as Fermi Launched.

But something surprised me is they took the AMD route naming scheme for their mid-range product.
 
If GK104 really is going to be the GTX 680, then I'm leaning towards GK110 being the high end 7xx series. Like GoldenTiger said, Nvidia meant for GK104 to be mid-range and GK110 to be enthusiast. Problem is they went way too ambitious and their design ended up with too many problems. After seeing the performance of the 7970, they're okay with the GK104 competing with it. That's not to say that AMD did a bad job on Tahiti. Nvidia just set their sights higher (a little too high apparently), and now, it's given them a plan B to release GK104 as GTX 680. Makes sense that these two could compete considering the die size between Tahiti and GK104 are similar.

Pushing back the design time for GK110, they can take whatever lessons they learned from GK104 and release a very solid 780 next year. On the enthusiast end, I'm calling a repeat of 40nm: AMD wins first round, and Nvidia wins second round.
 
GK104 will be 680.

Seeing some benchmarks show 7970 in the lead, mostly in tessellated situations there, other "normal" synthetic 3D benchmarks and gaming benchmarks show 680 faster. Driver advancements still happening as well for 680.
 
Floppington said:
If GK104 really is going to be the GTX 680, then I'm leaning towards GK110 being the high end 7xx series. Like GoldenTiger said, Nvidia meant for GK104 to be mid-range and GK110 to be enthusiast. Problem is they went way too ambitious and their design ended up with too many problems. After seeing the performance of the 7970, they're okay with the GK104 competing with it. That's not to say that AMD did a bad job on Tahiti. Nvidia just set their sights higher (a little too high apparently), and now, it's given them a plan B to release GK104 as GTX 680. Makes sense that these two could compete considering the die size between Tahiti and GK104 are similar.

Pushing back the design time for GK110, they can take whatever lessons they learned from GK104 and release a very solid 780 next year. On the enthusiast end, I'm calling a repeat of 40nm: AMD wins first round, and Nvidia wins second round.
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probably..but we get another GTX 400 series fiasco yet again basically.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
probably..but we get another GTX 400 series fiasco yet again basically.
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GTX 400-series wasn't a fiasco... it ran hot but that's it. If you had SLI, you really needed a space between the cards, though, and at that point it was able to heat your room a slight amount. Performance was solid, and it was quickly followed up by the really good 500-series. What info makes you think GK104 is going to be a "fiasco", supposedly?
 
Floppington said:
and now, it's given them a plan B to release GK104 as GTX 680. Makes sense that these two could compete considering the die size between Tahiti and GK104 are similar.
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With only 73% of the memory bandwidth of the R7970? That'd be pretty impressive on nV's part.
 
Lol I just don't get having brand loyalty. I pick what suits me best. I don't care who makes it. The fact of the matter is this is a battle neither side is going to win, because Nvidia is going to release a new card and take the lead and then AMD will release a new card and take the lead, etc. etc. repeat, repeat, repeat. You just have to choose based on the timeline that you are buying. You can't say one company beats the other because who is in the lead is strictly based on the time of the year. So stop arguing about it because both sides are wrong.
 
bAMtan2 said:
if they're calling it 680 it means they think they understand the AMD/ATI high end, and they think they can match or beat it. judging from your response, we're in for a tie.

early 7970 buyers made the right decision.
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Unless Nvidia prices this +$100 less.
 
tviceman said:
Unless Nvidia prices this +$100 less.
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I think that's going to be the kicker. nVidia has for a couple generations now missed with regards to price-to-performance or at least came in second to most AMD cards, but AMD hasn't been as aggressive this time around in pricing as they were the last 2 generations. There's definitely room there.

Performance-per-watt is more important this time than it was before and that's one area nVidia has definitely lagged behind in, particularly under load. If they can beat AMD on efficiency I'd be incredibly impressed. They can't afford another GTX480 anymore. While the 480 looked bad even back then, it would look far worse today.

Unfortunately, I highly doubt the price will be any lower and will likely be even higher than competing AMD alternatives yet again, and that's because nVidia have recently complained of yield issues which almost always translates into higher prices. I hope not and hope they hit a home run, but I wouldn't bet on it.
 
Ok, this is only about the leaks but...

Can i laugh if when the Kepler finally comes out, it really produces worse tessellation performance than GCN after JHH pushed so hard for unrealistic levels of tessellation on games last year? (looking at you Crysis 2 with the most incredibly detailed FLAT SURFACES ever).
 
pelo said:
Unfortunately, I highly doubt the price will be any lower and will likely be even higher than competing AMD alternatives yet again, and that's because nVidia have recently complained of yield issues which almost always translates into higher prices. I hope not and hope they hit a home run, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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The flip side to this is that we don't know what the yields are. I imagine Jen-Hsun Huang is more critical of his company's products and of TSMC than whoever it is that does the Q&A during AMD's conference calls. We never learned exactly what Fermi's yields were, but they were apparently good enough to make money off of. GF104's msrp as a video card was $220 at release. GF114's msrp was $250.

GK104 is smaller, but will have twice the vram with it, and increased 28nm costs (+20%) associated with it. If yields are the same on 28nm with GK104 as they were with GF104 and GF114, $300 should put them right at about the same profit margin as a $250 gtx560ti. Of course I don't think a fully unlocked GK104 is going to be $300, but even at $350 or $400 they have a chance to make considerably more money per card than they did with GF104 and GF114, while at the same time severely undercutting AMD and garnering goodwill among pc enthusiasts.
 
tviceman said:
The flip side to this is that we don't know what the yields are. I imagine Jen-Hsun Huang is more critical of his company's products and of TSMC than whoever it is that does the Q&A during AMD's conference calls. We never learned exactly what Fermi's yields were, but they were apparently good enough to make money off of. GF104's msrp as a video card was $220 at release. GF114's msrp was $250.

GK104 is smaller, but will have twice the vram with it, and increased 28nm costs (+20%) associated with it. If yields are the same on 28nm with GK104 as they were with GF104 and GF114, $300 should put them right at about the same profit margin as a $250 gtx560ti. Of course I don't think a fully unlocked GK104 is going to be $300, but even at $350 or $400 they have a chance to make considerably more money per card than they did with GF104 and GF114, while at the same time severely undercutting AMD and garnering goodwill among pc enthusiasts.
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I think you're overstating TSMC's current 28nm capacity here and by a hefty margin at that, and assuming a couple things which I don't believe are true (yields remaining the same, the cost and the price)

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038460719&postcount=674

Only fab 15 is on 28nm and it's not being ramped up in capacity until Q4 this year (phase 2), meaning whatever the yields are, though they'll improve per wafer, we won't be seeing more wafers until a few months down the line :mad:

There is a possibility that what you're saying is true and they're cheaper but I would highly doubt it.

edit: Just to add some clarity, TSMC has claimed their 28nm has been on schedule and isn't lower than expected so whatever yield issues are occurring are likely happening on the nVidia end of things.
 
tviceman said:
The flip side to this is that we don't know what the yields are. I imagine Jen-Hsun Huang is more critical of his company's products and of TSMC than whoever it is that does the Q&A during AMD's conference calls. We never learned exactly what Fermi's yields were, but they were apparently good enough to make money off of. GF104's msrp as a video card was $220 at release. GF114's msrp was $250.

GK104 is smaller, but will have twice the vram with it, and increased 28nm costs (+20%) associated with it. If yields are the same on 28nm with GK104 as they were with GF104 and GF114, $300 should put them right at about the same profit margin as a $250 gtx560ti. Of course I don't think a fully unlocked GK104 is going to be $300, but even at $350 or $400 they have a chance to make considerably more money per card than they did with GF104 and GF114, while at the same time severely undercutting AMD and garnering goodwill among pc enthusiasts.
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They also have the advantage of finally having a small die that can compete with AMD's top end card, unlike the situation with Fermi. So that gives them a little extra room to be competitive on the price - which they really couldn't afford to do with the 480/580 since it was so big.
 
Siryak said:
Lol I just don't get having brand loyalty. I pick what suits me best. I don't care who makes it. The fact of the matter is this is a battle neither side is going to win, because Nvidia is going to release a new card and take the lead and then AMD will release a new card and take the lead, etc. etc. repeat, repeat, repeat. You just have to choose based on the timeline that you are buying. You can't say one company beats the other because who is in the lead is strictly based on the time of the year. So stop arguing about it because both sides are wrong.
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If everything agreed with each other, there wouldn't be a need for forums.
Varying opinions keeps the discussion going.
 
Lock the people that design the cards for nvidia in a room with stock 480 gtxs and cook them, kill the driver developers for amd by feeding them based on how fast they fix really annoying bugs.

Then hire the driver coders for nvidia to write the drivers for the amd card designers.

Nerdvanananananaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!
 
Let's step back and look at the big picture here.

The standard 560Ti is priced $210-$250, while the $250-$300 560Ti 448 cards can meet or even exceed a $310-$350 GTX 570 when overclocked. The GTX 580 is priced $415-$480.

On the AMD side, we have: the $250 7850 somewhat outperforming the somewhat cheaper GTX 560Ti; the $350 7870 somewhat outperfoming the somewhat cheaper GTX 570; the $460 7950 somewhat outperforming the somewhat cheaper GTX 580; and finally, the 7970 which now starts at $580 on newegg today, even though it was supposed to be $550ish in January. I hope you're noticing the pattern here.

Now that we're calling GK104 the GTX 680, it has to be faster than the 580. If it fit the pattern of somewhat slower, somewhat cheaper by being somewhat slower than the 7970, I would probably peg it at $500 and feel really comfortable doing so. If it outperforms the 7970 (significantly or not) and they still keep it at $500, Nvidia has a winner and AMD has to seriously slash their 7970 prices.

Given all this, I'm not sure I can see why Nvidia would sell a GTX 680 for less than $500. If it outperforms the 7970, they could even sell for $600, especially if supply is low.

Nvidia doesn't usually offer single-GPU flagship cards without offering lesser cards as well, so I would expect them to also offer 670 or 660Ti parts as well. A theoretical 660Ti would have to be at least as fast as a 570, approaching a 580 or what was the point? But it would also have to keep a mid-range price, which would be $250-$300. A $400 GTX 670 would then have to be at the very least equal to a 580, if not equal to a 7950 - which would mean the 680 would have to be no less than equal to a 7970.
 
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between 7950 and 7970? Sounds like another 4xx series fuck up but then again everyone knew this already. There is no such thing as a high end card coming later, it would be way to late in the game. I doubt it will be available before 2013. So it might not be the best gpu on the planet? The only ppl buying tol cards are enthusiasts that that want the very best. No pays lots of money to know there is a better card out there.

Enthusiasts only care about the oc potential and If the 680 is not a monster overclocker then AMD is on top. I guess I will have to stick with my 7970.

What really sucks about this is AMD will have no reason to lower the price of there 7970s
 
No, it sounds like a GTX460 type part coming before the big dog. Nothing wrong with that as this is the chip they will sell in quantities, make good money of and which they can more easily fab on a new process.
If it almost provides 7970 performance for much less and at lower power, it will be very popular.
 
So the 7970 price is going up?!?!? Is AMD trying to get a last large squeeze of money cause they know the 680 will force them to lower? Or do they know they have the best card on the planet (due to the oc potnetial) and they can ask anything for it?

I really hope the 680 is alot better oced and cool and quiet so that it will be worth upgrading. I wanted to 680 sli and have been holding off on buying another 7970. If it is not better than a good oced 7970 then the name of the game for Nvidia is don't bother waiting AMD has something better. I'm glad I didn't wait. I had a 7970 in my computer first thing the morning of release
 
boxleitnerb said:
No, it sounds like a GTX460 type part coming before the big dog. Nothing wrong with that as this is the chip they will sell in quantities, make good money of and which they can more easily fab on a new process.
If it almost provides 7970 performance for much less and at lower power, it will be very popular.
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I and everyone I know would never spend close to $500 and up unless it is the most powerful card on the planet.
 
onthemour said:
So the 7970 price is going up?!?!? Is AMD trying to get a last large squeeze of money cause they know the 680 will force them to lower? Or do they know they have the best card on the planet (due to the oc potnetial) and they can ask anything for it?

I really hope the 680 is alot better oced and cool and quiet so that it will be worth upgrading. I wanted to 680 sli and have been holding off on buying another 7970. If it is not better than a good oced 7970 then the name of the game for Nvidia is don't bother waiting AMD has something better. I'm glad I didn't wait. I had a 7970 in my computer first thing the morning of release
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Why up? The 680 is not the successor to the 580, regardless of the name. Look at the die size, power consumption and performance and that will become abundandtly clear.

The people only buying the fastest part are a minority. Most people buy cards that have great perf/$ and according to AMDs MSRP, none of the 7000 series is good in that regard. It is clear that at maybe $350 GK104 will outsell the $550 Tahiti XT by orders of magnitude (if supply allows).
 
I don't care about what these company's sell and make I only care about the best performance with decent thermal/audio levels.

Looks like I will get my hands on the paper launch if and when it happens
 
boxleitnerb said:
Why up? The 680 is not the successor to the 580, regardless of the name. Look at the die size, power consumption and performance and that will become abundandtly clear.

The people only buying the fastest part are a minority. Most people buy cards that have great perf/$ and according to AMDs MSRP, none of the 7000 series is good in that regard. It is clear that at maybe $350 GK104 will outsell the $550 Tahiti XT by orders of magnitude (if supply allows).
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If you think they will list it at $350.00 I have a bridge to sell you. Please stop the non sense you are giving us in the nvidia camp a bad name.

I returned the 7950 the moment I was confident in a imminent kepler release.
 
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