Gigaworks S750 sub dead, what do for 7.1 nearfield setup?

Reimu

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
1,626
My Gigaworks S750 sub has finally died, leaving me with a bunch of bookshelf speakers for use in my room, about 1500 cu ft, (18x12x7). These bookshelf speakers are rated to 70W RMS, 8 Ohm, with 3.5" main and 1" tweeter.
The dead sub was rated 210W RMS, 8" in size. It's known to use bad capacitors and it ran hot.

My current setup uses a Xonar D2X sound card -> S750. I have a headphone dac/amp for headphone use too.
I sit to one side of the wall along the length of the room, which means that I need a nearfield setup where I am really close to my display. My display is about 1' away from the wall, with me sitting 1.5' away from my display.

I don't know what I should do.

1. Get a sub and a receiver. (I don't know if I should insist on 7.1)
2. Get a Creative X7 and live with 2.0
3. Get myself yet another HTIB grade 5.1 set (Z-5500 equivalent)

Any idea?
 
No idea since you didn't give a budget or mention if you were looking to upgrade your speakers or just wanted the cheapest option to keep your current setup working.
 
PSB 450 is nice. Digitally tuned for your pleasure.

PSB SubSeries 450 Subwoofer Reviewed

Or list a budget.That helps. A receiver and a new sub would be good. I always say get two good speakers and a sub vs several crappier speakers though.

HSU makes nice stuf for the money btw. Their speakers are crazy fun for gaming and the subs are awesome.
 
Sorry. Looking to spend about $500-$1000 top. That sub is way too expensive to me. I already use a sound card, and I would have thought about a 7.1 amp
 
Last edited:
Yeah. A 7.1 amp is hard to find and usually expensive. Look for a good receiver, perhaps used on craigslist. Even the entyr level subs by HSU SVS, PSB are all excellent.
 
My z-5500 sub died a couple months ago and I replaced it with a receiver. The speakers sound much better using that than the z-5500 sub-amp. But they really lack bass without a sub so I got a standalone subwoofer. I plan on replacing the 5 satellite speakers and adding a stereo zone 2 in the bathroom once I move my desk. I planned on doing that so when my sub died it was an easy decision for me.

http://i.imgur.com/e2vNjUS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/P0fyq8R.jpg

The receiver was $400 and the sub was $200, you could do it for a lot cheaper with a used receiver and smaller sub, or spend a hell of a lot more, it really depends what you want. You could probably also just replace the capacitors on your sub. You could probably find the capacitors online for a few bucks.
 
Check the fuse and see if speaker leads are connected.
My z-5500 sub died a couple months ago and I replaced it with a receiver. The speakers sound much better using that than the z-5500 sub-amp. But they really lack bass without a sub so I got a standalone subwoofer. I plan on replacing the 5 satellite speakers and adding a stereo zone 2 in the bathroom once I move my desk. I planned on doing that so when my sub died it was an easy decision for me.

The receiver was $400 and the sub was $200, you could do it for a lot cheaper with a used receiver and smaller sub, or spend a hell of a lot more, it really depends what you want. You could probably also just replace the capacitors on your sub. You could probably find the capacitors online for a few bucks.
Yeah. A 7.1 amp is hard to find and usually expensive. Look for a good receiver, perhaps used on craigslist. Even the entyr level subs by HSU SVS, PSB are all excellent.

I've checked the main fuse, and it's good. I am not an electrician in any mean so I didn't open the sub up. The Creative unit ran real hot, and I never dare to crank that thing to max, ever.

I am thinking of getting BIC America F12 for the sub or buy a used 10" sub and then get a receiver. Receivers really can do a ton of things that are just overkill for PC use though! My situation is exactly lilke sharknice.
By the way, are tower speakers any good at stereo listening up close where the speakers are only 2' away from you? My satellite speakers are basically comparable to Audioengine A5+ in dimension.
 
Last edited:
I would spend the majority of your money on the speakers. That is where you find the biggest difference in quality of sound in my experience. Hell, I would forgo getting a sub now just to put more money towards the speakers honestly. My sub died recently too. I have not felt an urgent need to replace it bc I can hear more details in the game without the big bass. I play FPS primarily though so most of the critical sound is in the higher freqs.

If it is a 2' distance, I would remind you that if you have a creative sound card you can set the speaker distance in the software. While tower speakers are not overkill but at that distance, you are probably better off looking at nearfield monitors. I really liked the HSU speakers when I had them. They had a really neat way of making the sound surround me. Just about any decently rated bookshelf with at least a 5 1/4" driver and a decent tweeter will do though.
 
I use Asus Xonar D2X. I never did input the distance info like with Creative when I used an Audigy card.

So I can consider getting bookshelf that can push 50Hz on their own as well? I know that the likes of audioengine cannot do without a sub.

Btw, is it crucial for the front speakers to be at my ear level or I can simple angle them upward?

Urgh. Headphones are far more straightforward in comparison.
 
Headphones are easier but not as good.

Best to have them ear level although angling them can work too. WHo makes those simple pad stands? Aurelex? Can't recall.

My speakers go strong down to 45 Hz. Most modern bookshelfs should do 50 Hz before roll off.

A receiver would be an upgrade over that Asus. Or an amp with usb or optical input.

Here, the price on the speakers is for ONE. Still a steal though. This is an entry level, decent sounding, compact desktop 2.1:

SMSL Q5 PRO Stereo Amplifier USB Optical Coaxial DAC with Subwoofer Output 2x40W

"SMSL Q5 PRO Stereo Amplifier USB Optical Coaxial DAC with Subwoofer Output 2x40W" from www.parts-express.com!

BIC Formula FH-65B 6-1/2" 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker

"BIC Formula FH-65B 6-1/2" 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker" from www.parts-express.com!

BIC Formula F-12 12" 475 Watt Subwoofer

"BIC Formula F-12 12" 475 Watt Subwoofer" from www.parts-express.com!
 
Thank you Spaceman. So I'd be looking at about 5.25" woofer for the bookshelf if I want roughly 50Hz.

Headphones wise, I use portable DAC/Amp combo such as Creative E5 and Fiio E17. None of these are capable of driving speakers. My headphones aren't anything crazy.
Fidelio X2
Westone 4

Headphones just couldn't beat a surround sound setup in immersion. I stopped using my speakers for music listening ever since I've gone for better headphones, but I have to go back to speakers if I am gaming.
edit: I hate how my ears get hot with headphones.
 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
I'm kind of confused whether you're looking for a full revamp or just a subwoofer. If it's the former, and you need a good 7.1 receiver, I recommend either a Denon 3805 or 3806 off of Ebay. Depending on how lucky you are it'll probably run you somewhere between 170-250. It has really good, clean amplifiers, and a single subwoofer preamp out. I've been pretty happy with mine, and so has another user I recommended it to. There are other ones but I can't find that topic where the Denons were suggested.

As far as speakers, you're either free to keep using yours or get some secondhand ones and then add in a sub. Personally I can't really stand to use headphones either. I have a good pair (Beyerdynamic T1), but I only use them whenever I'm playing with friends. Lately I went to the thrift store and found a pair of DCM CX17's for 25 bucks. I was honestly freaking blown away. DCM made some amazing vintage speakers. They're freaking massive though. If you're looking to pair with a sub anyway, you could probably get away with a bunch of Realistic Minimus 7's. They sound really good for their price and they're very small and built like tanks.

For just 2.0 sound I'm using a pair of Vanatoo T1's and they're good. They have a sub out, but they have pretty good bass on their own, too. You could also grab a bunch of JBL LSR305's and just hook them up to your sound card, which need no amp and sound great. Depending on deals you can get all your channels filled in for fairly good prices.
 

I am still struggling with it. I just came back from my local AV store and asked about the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers. Hearing that setup does make me realize just how limited those HTIB speakers really are.
That set would set me back a grand though.
 
Headphones are easier but not as good.

Best to have them ear level although angling them can work too. WHo makes those simple pad stands? Aurelex? Can't recall.

My speakers go strong down to 45 Hz. Most modern bookshelfs should do 50 Hz before roll off.

Headphones main weakness as I see it is it's not something you can just turn on at the end of a long day--you really want to shower and tidy up before putting them on. But it's definitely much cheaper to hit a high sound quality with headphones. I'd say at the $300 range you've got the Sennheisher HD600, Audiotechnica R70X/AD1000X, Phillips Fidelio X2s which you need to spend about $800-1000 on a pair of speakers to match the quality of. Headphones do hit a wall faster than speakers though due to their size/single driver limitations--almost every high end ($3000-5000) headphone has some serious acoustical tradeoff (soundstage, ringing/breakup modes, lack of bass) that just doesn't exist in speakers because they can just get bigger with more drivers and don't have a weight or size limitations that the human head has to deal with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reimu
like this
I am still struggling with it. I just came back from my local AV store and asked about the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers. Hearing that setup does make me realize just how limited those HTIB speakers really are.
That set would set me back a grand though.

Like I said I highly suggest doing some secondhand shopping. You can get some amazing sound systems by checkout Ebay and/or Craigslist. Sound engineering hasn't changed enough in recent years to warrant new speakers. Some old vintage ones sound incredible, and are selling for cheaaap on Ebay. Though if you don't even want a receiver and just want to consider hooking speakers straight into your sound card, again consider the JBL LSR305's. You can add then incrementally one by one and have some really good surround for a budget price if you get in on the sales. They hiss some though, which kind of drove me crazy enough to return them.
 
Yeah. Just upgrading the speakers slowly is a good idea. Start with 2 and add them up until you get the full surround. I had a paradigm 5.1 with dual subs for a brief while. It scared the hell out of everyone so I had to go to a much quieter nearfield stereo or get a divorce.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reimu
like this
By the way, are tower speakers any good at stereo listening up close where the speakers are only 2' away from you?
This is about how the drivers' outputs combine, and it depends on the specific implementation. You can sit closer to speakers with close driver spacing (relative to the crossover frequency) & steep crossovers.

If it is a 2' distance, I would remind you that if you have a creative sound card you can set the speaker distance in the software.
I'm not sure what Creative tweaks with this setting (delay, EQ?), but it cannot address the acoustic issue I just described.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reimu
like this
I want to thank you gentlemen for helping me embark on the [H]ard path to great audio. Learning everything from splicing speaker wire to configuring HDMI audio mode have been worth it.

GTX 980Ti HDMI out -> Sony STR-DN8 7.2 receiver -> Energy RC-70 floorstanding speakers
Damage to wallet: $USD 280 (receiver, new, BB), $USD 330 (speakers, used, Craigslist).

HTIB or PC speakers don't even come close! Holy moly.

It took an entire day, and this den of mine is a complete mess, but I've never felt as [H]ard as I am right now, 17 past 2 by midnight.

Next step: Surround setup!

20161023_013211.jpg



20161023_013449.jpg


20161023_013245.jpg
 
Last edited:
This is why I suggest receivers so frequently around here. Quality determined only by your wallet and your ears and so much customization available. No tinny PC speakers for me thank you.
 
This is why I suggest receivers so frequently around here. Quality determined only by your wallet and your ears and so much customization available. No tinny PC speakers for me thank you.

Although a receiver is far [H]arder to configure than some DAC or sticking a sound card in. It reminds me of the old days back in 1995 when we had the original sound blaster cards actually.
 
You're 8-10 feet away from floorstanding speakers sweet spot. The time alignment is going to be non-existent. :unsure:
Watching video on this right now. I didn't know about time and phase coherent at all. Granted, I am not versed enough in this stuff.
I guess what I can do is to acquire bookshelf speakers of the same line and use them up close? Would I have to worry about this for center channel as well?
 
Well... hmm this is a sticky one. Using those floorstanders is akin to standing next to a speaker as your final listening position, well ugh.. doh, it literally is the same thing given how close you are to it.

I would sell them if you can. There's no good way to get those to work in a near field setup, none.

I would probably have gone with powered monitor setup with an external sub, like the Andrew Jones designed Pioneer sub if you can still find it for the low end.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KVEIY4E/
https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SW-8MK2-Designed-100-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B008NCD2PC/

On the highend well you can really start to tap into the little things as the two above should already net you pretty good sound for a base.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWJJSBZ/

^^Btw at the price above, which is normal for just the sub alone, you get the two matching monitors with it lol.

20 to 200 Hz and a maximum SPL of 110 dB. The driver is housed within a heavily braced and reinforced MDF cabinet with a vinyl finish and ported bass reflex design. It is powered by a 250 Watt Class AB plate amplifier.

Freq response down to 20hz... That alone is real hard to hit for most subs let alone for the 400 bracket.

If you don't like the Rockvilles that the combo comes with, throw in a set of Presonus E4.5s or higher, or go with the Mackies or AudioEngines etc.
 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Well... hmm this is a sticky one. Using those floorstanders is akin to standing next to a speaker as your final listening position, well ugh.. doh, it literally is the same thing given how close you are to it.

I would sell them if you can. There's no good way to get those to work in a near field setup, none.

I would probably have gone with powered monitor setup with an external sub, like the Andrew Jones designed Pioneer sub if you can still find it for the low end.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KVEIY4E/
https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SW-8MK2-Designed-100-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B008NCD2PC/

On the highend well you can really start to tap into the little things as the two above should already net you pretty good sound for a base.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWJJSBZ/

^^Btw at the price above, which is normal for just the sub alone, you get the two matching monitors with it lol.



Freq response down to 20hz... That alone is real hard to hit for most subs let alone for the 400 bracket.

Hmm. What about taking the time on my part to acquire all the pieces to make a surround setup and then move that to the living room? I just searched the Andrew Jones set, and I don't think Energy's Reference Connoisseur is in the same category.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Hmm. What about taking the time on my part to acquire all the pieces to make a surround setup and then move that to the living room? I just searched the Andrew Jones set, and I don't think Energy's Reference Connoisseur is in the same category.

Yea, you can definitely move the Energy's to the living room. They are great speakers just not that great 1-2 feet from your ears. The AJ designed Pio speakers are on the low end, but they have a very refined high end sound. Thus making a whole set of AJ 5.1 speakers due to their price, not painful on wallet when it comes time to checkout.

https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-PK52FS-Theater-Speaker-Package/dp/B00LBI88IQ?th=1
^^I'd forgotten what they costs until I double checked with Pio. You can buy them from Pio direct for 450.

Btw, this guy Jones also designed these. It's like Mizrahi schlepping for Kmart.

TAD Reference One Loudspeaker (TAS 218)
 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Yea, you can definitely move the Energy's to the living room. They are great speakers just not that great 1-2 feet from your ears. The AJ designed Pio speakers are on the low end, but they have a very refined high end sound. Thus making a whole set of AJ 5.1 speakers due to their price, not painful on wallet when it comes time to checkout.

https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-PK52FS-Theater-Speaker-Package/dp/B00LBI88IQ?th=1
^^I'd forgotten what they costs until I double checked with Pio. You can buy them from Pio direct for 450.

Btw, this guy Jones also designed these. It's like Mizrahi schlepping for Kmart.

TAD Reference One Loudspeaker (TAS 218)

Stupid question btw. Do you think that the Andrew Jones Pioneer set's satellite speakers can make for a decent pair for nearfield? Wouldn't it better to have the amp separate from the cabinet (instead of being like monitors) since the situation here isn't the same as powered subwoofer?
Btw, are you serious that Presonus Temblor T10 can actually do what say SVS PB-1000 could?
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Buncha Kancolle girls on a tank huh? I think last time the images you used wouldn't load because I was at work. I found that pic on Sankaku just now. I guess you just used it because it doesn't need to scale. You just center it and the background is white. IDK why Kancolle is so popular though. >_>

Anyway, I wouldn't use those floorstanders that close to you. Actually your whole setup is a bit weird. Your desk is so freaking small, so it's weird to just put a whole receiver on there, and right in front of the mice. I'd scoot it over to the left and put the phone on top of it. How big is that room? You could just try scooting the desk away from the wall a bit and then also scooting the towers into a corner, a bit further away from you. It wouldn't really be near field at that point, but I think it might work a bit better.

To be completely frank, you should have just given us some links to what was available on CL in your area and for what price. Secondhand deals can be good but in your case this is overall just a weird setup. I don't know how good that receiver is either, but to me I tend to avoid anything Sony when it comes to audio... but this might be just unfounded bias, just they seem to make more common and entry-level consumer gear when it comes to audio.

For less money, 2x https://www.amazon.com/JBL-LSR305-Studio-Monitor/dp/B00DUKP37C would probably sound better and not even require an amp or receiver. They might also fit on your desk.

Or just one set of these, and they'd definitely fit on your desk. Totally no fuss:
https://www.amazon.com/Vanatoo-Tran...1477285216&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=vanatoo+t1
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Stupid question btw. Do you think that the Andrew Jones Pioneer set's satellite speakers can make for a decent pair for nearfield? Wouldn't it better to have the amp separate from the cabinet (instead of being like monitors) since the situation here isn't the same as powered subwoofer?
Btw, are you serious that Presonus Temblor T10 can actually do what say SVS PB-1000 could?

Bookshelfs are not ideal in a near field setup, but can work ok enough in a pinch. As I wrote above best bet is to just get some monitors (mackie, audioengine, rokit, presonus) and a sub and be done with it. Regarding the T10, studio speakers are very accurate. They have to be otherwise the recordings made from them would sound just as colored as the source.
 
Ok. I see.
1. I need to separate the requirements for home theater to nearfield, and I shouldn't be afraid of the whole monitoring arrangement even if I am no audio engineer and I will never use XLR.
2. Get monitor setup and have those arranged to be lined up right, and that's it. Forget about that whole surround sound gimmick.

The total space in the work den is about 18'x11'x7'. I guess I can place the two towers for now if I couldn't sell them.
 
Ok. I see.
1. I need to separate the requirements for home theater to nearfield, and I shouldn't be afraid of the whole monitoring arrangement even if I am no audio engineer and I will never use XLR.
2. Get monitor setup and have those arranged to be lined up right, and that's it. Forget about that whole surround sound gimmick.

The total space in the work den is about 18'x11'x7'. I guess I can place the two towers for now if I couldn't sell them.

Yeap, nods. In my setup, when I want to hear footsteps like behind me, I use a pair of Sony MA-900 headphones otherwise no need for surround.
 
I really do like the sound of these speakers. They just pulverize the 'top end PC surround sound speakers' in fidelity, resolution and instrument separation. I must sound utterly retarded.

Would it be feasible for me to actually try to play it both ways?

Position myself where I can enjoy the towers as they ought to be, maybe 4' away so that I am more or less in the center of this room?
I think I technically don't need a center if I am not sitting way back, so I just need to worry about the two fronts in stereo mostly.
Move the whole tiny desk to the center of this 18'x11'x7' den so that I can actually do this right.

I will definitely look at monitors. It's just that I don't want to waste what I got now.

Yeap, nods. In my setup, when I want to hear footsteps like behind me, I use a pair of Sony MA-900 headphones otherwise no need for surround.

I have been using Fidelio X2 for this job lately. A bit stuffy, but better separation than my HTIB grade S750.
 
I shifted the two towers away from my seat and they are now both angled 30 degrees to the central axis and they are now 5 3/4' away from me. I don't know how to describe it well, but it's as if the field that's coming to my ears have converged and it's not so treble heavy as it were before.

It's kind of crazy that I can feel myself being in the center when there's no center channel to speak of.
 
Last edited:
Things look ghetto as hell right now, but at least it's starting to sound right. The towers are about 8' away from the sweet spot diagonally. Fireplace to the rear is boarded up, there is no rear port on the center and the two towers are 1.5' away from the wall.

The 30" sits about 1/2" lower than my ears, and that monitor is level to in-between the woofer and the tweeter, and I've cleared obstructions as much as possible.

ghetto_setup.jpg


I am now using Creative E5 DAC/Amp powering Fidelio X2 for nearfield stuff. Will plan out monitoring setup as suggested above in time.
 
Last edited:
You have two ears. Your brain does a LOT of tricks to synthesize and understand sound cues. Part of why Plain Jane headphones (well nice ones anyway) work for positional listening in the first place.

Those tweeters and woofers were probably meant to be yards away. So yeah. You'll probably get a silly amount of treble when you're that close. I mean you don't need to bother with monitors if you're happy with how that setup sounds now that they're properly positioned. It is a tiny bit weird with your desk in the way, but it's still perfectly viable, and probably a hell of a lot better than what you had before.
 
You have two ears. Your brain does a LOT of tricks to synthesize and understand sound cues. Part of why Plain Jane headphones (well nice ones anyway) work for positional listening in the first place.

Those tweeters and woofers were probably meant to be yards away. So yeah. You'll probably get a silly amount of treble when you're that close. I mean you don't need to bother with monitors if you're happy with how that setup sounds now that they're properly positioned. It is a tiny bit weird with your desk in the way, but it's still perfectly viable, and probably a hell of a lot better than what you had before.

Yeah. I am guessing that the tower can be used for something like 20x20 area, but I haven't that kind of space.
Here's the leftover satellites that I got. 8 Ohm, 1" Tweeter, 5 1/4" driver (paper cone), recommended crossover point is 80Hz. The receiver gives it a +4db gain in setting that as a surround. I know that we human beings aren't nearly so discerning for surround, but is it even a good idea to utilize these satellites in that role even if the rated impedance are ok.

20161025_120950.jpg
 
I am going to have to switch a receiver at that too. Damn. Not every new receiver supports 21:9 resolution. Thank goodness I can still return this thing. I only found this out when I accidentally assigned my ultrawide to the HDMI out at that.
 
You could bypass the receiver and hook right into the monitor then either use a monitor audio output (I don't know if many have that or not) or use optical out from your sound card/motherboard to the receiver. After a quick glance it looks like you are going to spend $600+ for a receiver that has 21:9 pass-through.

Onkyo USA Corporation
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reimu
like this
Back
Top