Pachalski
Limp Gawd
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White will not make it, the natural glass blasted anodized one will, it is very light in color and close to white.
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GHOST S1 - When both size & performance matters
Jonas Mellkvist
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2016
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- 159
The White case will not get released because of high cost to manufacture and not Good enough samples.
I didn't have time to follow this thread, but now i briefly read it (+ watched your assembly time-lapses), and i have some thoughts:
- from the technical point of view this is one of the best (if not the best) aluminium case below 10L in this form factor i have ever seen. It looks very sturdy and I feel like if we would like to design an aluminium shoe-box case with the principles which we were following during Sentry design, then we would not be ashamed if we would achieved the same result as you did. The internal construction has right proportions, side panels are thick, mounting points are solid (not some chinese plastic "clickers", but proper screws), connections are rigid and assembling process looks much easier than in many other pc-cases. Well done.
- I really like dondan's case and what he achieved with it (it is a great product), but in my opinion you designed a true A4-SFX killer. It is just 1 liter bigger and if you want to buy the smallest possible shoe box, then you obviously will pick DAN A4, but if you will want to buy a product which is made to last ages and isn't designed with common "product aging policy", then I think Ghost S1 XS will be the best choice (ofc if you won't screw up anything with the production units). As I said, A4 is a great case, but in my opinion if you will put those two cases side by side, most people won't notice much difference in size, but when you will start work with both cases, Ghost S1 will make A4-SFX look like another cheap chinese product. I'm eagerly waiting for people who will have both cases and who will write their opinions about both products. Maybe there are some differences i didn't notice, but after analysing the construction and ease of assembling pc in both cases, if both were available from the shelf in a store in the same price I would be surprised if more people would pick A4 instead of Ghost S1 (talking about the quality and durability of product itself, not just popularity in media). This is of course only MY opinion. We will see what your kickstarter supporters will think about it.
- your "media exposition" is very poor. If my brother wouldn't send me a link to your assembly time-lapse videos, then probably I would never see this product (I do not read every thread in forums, but I watch many youtube reviewers and I never saw the review of your case... maybe it wasn't made in English or something like that...). To be fair, we also screwed it up with our case and our campaign. Now we have many emails from people who didn't know about our product when it was on sale, because we didn't advertise it right. How many online "newspapers" did you wrote to about your kickstarter campaign start? How many youtube reviewers will make a video about your case DURING your campaign? What about online positioning in web search-engines? Start asking questions in the forum or in pm's if you need help or answers. At this moment I think your contact with media is in the place where "esplin" was with his "!nverse case" and as you probably know his crowdfunding campaign didn't end well...
I think that's all for now. Great job man! I have fingers crossed for the success of your kickstarter campaign. I think, you designed currently the best SFF shoe-box style case below 10 litres and only lack of adverising, or too high price compared to other SFF cases would kill the product.
Good luck!
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Pachalski
Limp Gawd
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- Mar 15, 2017
- Messages
- 327
Friends, unfortunately we need to inform you that the campaign will be rescheduled a couple of days. This is due to the fact that the guys at Kickstarter’s projects department have taken a couple of days off for thanksgiving and forgot informing us about it. We worked all week to sort this out, we are at a point in time when we don’t dare to just “wait and see...”. That’s why we now have taken the decision to reschedule – hopefully this gives you some more time to spend with the turkeys
We are sorry for this, and we hope that this won’t affect you more than resetting your alarm clocks to Wed Nov 29th 21:00 CET
I’d like to take this chance to say thank you to everyone in this thread! Thank you for contributing to the realization of Ghost S1. None mentioned, no forgotten! Each comment has been read and carefully evaluated, everything has naturally not been implemented, some points have been rejected, others have been added to the todo list or the next model list. Regardless, each comment has contributed in its way, pushed the dialogue or simply given us the energy we have needed to take all the way!
Looking forward to the continuation, the next steps and especially to see what will be stuffed into this “turkey”!
We are sorry for this, and we hope that this won’t affect you more than resetting your alarm clocks to Wed Nov 29th 21:00 CET
I’d like to take this chance to say thank you to everyone in this thread! Thank you for contributing to the realization of Ghost S1. None mentioned, no forgotten! Each comment has been read and carefully evaluated, everything has naturally not been implemented, some points have been rejected, others have been added to the todo list or the next model list. Regardless, each comment has contributed in its way, pushed the dialogue or simply given us the energy we have needed to take all the way!
Looking forward to the continuation, the next steps and especially to see what will be stuffed into this “turkey”!
Pachalski
Limp Gawd
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- Mar 15, 2017
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- 327
Yes, expect it March - April
I've got another question. For the test XS setup where you just have the single 92mm fan on the NH-l12, is that in a push or pull setup? IOW pushing hot air out of the case or pulling fresh air in. I think I recall you saying pulling air in but I just wanted to make sure
Yourflyisdwn
n00b
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- Sep 16, 2017
- Messages
- 40
It's a pull, which I believe is the stock orientation of the cooler. The idea is that all cool air is brought in from the sides of the case (CPU, GPU, PSU) and hot air either passively rises through the top, or you place fans in a top hat to pull hot air out the top.
wahaha360
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2012
- Messages
- 943
Maybe I should
I have:
1. access to current A4
2. access the next A4
3. ZS-A4 (A4 clone made from extrusion like the Ghost, see image below)
4. ordered the ZS-S1 (Ghost S1 clone with top hats)
5. I can also buy the real Ghost S1 during the campaign
edit:
5) I can also buy the real Ghost S1 during the campaign
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Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2015
- Messages
- 1,439
Maybe I should
I have:
1. access to current A4
2. access the next A4
3. ZS-A4 (A4 clone made from extrusion like the Ghost, see image below)
3. ordered the ZS-S1 (Ghost S1 clone with top hats)
Hmm, those two clones, they weren't made on Kamino, were they...? ;^p
Fernando93
n00b
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2017
- Messages
- 53
Does the EK-XLC Predator 240 fit?
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From what I've seen, 68mm is going to be big, 57mm is listed against the largest top hat. Unless there could be enough room if the large top hat was fitting below the case and there was a bit of room at the bottom. The main site says:Does the EK-XLC Predator 240 fit?
"WATER COOLING
240 mm AIO radiator thickness 31.5 mm, 2 x 25 mm high fans w. L TopHat"
Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Sep 19, 2015
- Messages
- 1,439
Does the EK-XLC Predator 240 fit?
Overall thickness is not really an issue, as one can stack TopHats, a S & a L TopHat stacked is 73mm total, the Predator / Phoenix is 68mm...
The issue is that the Predator,and its replacement, the EK-MLC Phoenix lineup, do not fit due to interference with the interior corners of the TopHats (where it is long enough, it is too narrow & where it is wide enough, it is too short)...
Fernando93
n00b
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- Jun 27, 2017
- Messages
- 53
The dimensions of the EK MLC Phoenix 240 are 295 x 133 x 68mm (L x W x H) (same as Predator 240)
So you mean that there is no way to fit it even with custom brackets?
So you mean that there is no way to fit it even with custom brackets?
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Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Sep 19, 2015
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No, there is not...
FlamingKomodo
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2014
- Messages
- 80
Shame. Was really looking forward to seeing the initial turnout to see the project goals and if everything is on track to come to fruition.
Pachalski
Limp Gawd
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- Mar 15, 2017
- Messages
- 327
The dimensions of the EK MLC Phoenix 240 are 295 x 133 x 68mm (L x W x H) (same as Predator 240)
So you mean that there is no way to fit it even with custom brackets?
Does anyone have this or a details measurement description of it? It looks like the pump part of it is not as wide as the radiator. If it is narrow enough over the pump it could clear the corners and be pushed all the way forward in the case and that way the wider back would not reach the corners.
Pachalski
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2017
- Messages
- 327
I didn't have time to follow this thread, but now i briefly read it (+ watched your assembly time-lapses), and i have some thoughts:
- from the technical point of view this is one of the best (if not the best) aluminium case below 10L in this form factor i have ever seen. It looks very sturdy and I feel like if we would like to design an aluminium shoe-box case with the principles which we were following during Sentry design, then we would not be ashamed if we would achieved the same result as you did. The internal construction has right proportions, side panels are thick, mounting points are solid (not some chinese plastic "clickers", but proper screws), connections are rigid and assembling process looks much easier than in many other pc-cases. Well done.
- I really like dondan's case and what he achieved with it (it is a great product), but in my opinion you designed a true A4-SFX killer. It is just 1 liter bigger and if you want to buy the smallest possible shoe box, then you obviously will pick DAN A4, but if you will want to buy a product which is made to last ages and isn't designed with common "product aging policy", then I think Ghost S1 XS will be the best choice (ofc if you won't screw up anything with the production units). As I said, A4 is a great case, but in my opinion if you will put those two cases side by side, most people won't notice much difference in size, but when you will start work with both cases, Ghost S1 will make A4-SFX look like another cheap chinese product. I'm eagerly waiting for people who will have both cases and who will write their opinions about both products. Maybe there are some differences i didn't notice, but after analysing the construction and ease of assembling pc in both cases, if both were available from the shelf in a store in the same price I would be surprised if more people would pick A4 instead of Ghost S1 (talking about the quality and durability of product itself, not just popularity in media). This is of course only MY opinion. We will see what your kickstarter supporters will think about it.
- your "media exposition" is very poor. If my brother wouldn't send me a link to your assembly time-lapse videos, then probably I would never see this product (I do not read every thread in forums, but I watch many youtube reviewers and I never saw the review of your case... maybe it wasn't made in English or something like that...). To be fair, we also screwed it up with our case and our campaign. Now we have many emails from people who didn't know about our product when it was on sale, because we didn't advertise it right. How many online "newspapers" did you wrote to about your kickstarter campaign start? How many youtube reviewers will make a video about your case DURING your campaign? What about online positioning in web search-engines? Start asking questions in the forum or in pm's if you need help or answers. At this moment I think your contact with media is in the place where "esplin" was with his "!nverse case" and as you probably know his crowdfunding campaign didn't end well...
I think that's all for now. Great job man! I have fingers crossed for the success of your kickstarter campaign. I think, you designed currently the best SFF shoe-box style case below 10 litres and only lack of adverising, or too high price compared to other SFF cases would kill the product.
Good luck!
Dziękujemy za miłe słowa!
Fernando93
n00b
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2017
- Messages
- 53
The only info i can find on the measurements is on the product website: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-mlc-phoenix-240-radiator-core-module
The only thing it says there are the dimensions: 295 x 133 x 68mm (L x W x H)
The dimensions listed are the same as the old EK-XLC Predator 240, and the picture below are the details of the Predator
I just sent an email to EK to see if they can send me the Details of the new EK MLC Phoenix 240.
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illram
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 1,473
Yeah I don't get the A4 digs. Kind of unnecessary. They're both great cases.
Fernando93
n00b
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2017
- Messages
- 53
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I dont understand why not send a prototype to someone like linustechtips which would easily get 500k+ views or even some smaller EU based youtuber like TekEverything, his Lazer3D review got 60k views, not someone from Sweden who doest speak english. That would insure the success of the kickstarter campaign...
Maybe it felt a little bit harsh, but I didn't want to offend anyone (I'm sorry if someone felt offended by what I wrote). Many people don't like me or my little bro, just because we don't have or use something which is called "political correctness". When we see something, we are always writing how we see it, to make the direct information. We prefer that someone will don't like us, than he will think we aren't honest with him in what we say. We are not politicians or marketing guys, but we are here to help each other to make a progress. Soft language is sometimes an obstacle in making decisions or even improvements. If someone did something better than someone else, it should be noticed. I just wrote MY thoughts about this design, and those were MY thoughts. Everyone may have a different opinion and I respect it.
And about the comparison to the A4:
- GHOST S1 XS is a direct competition to DAN A4-SFX,
- GHOST S1 S, M, L is a direct competition to DAN C4-SFX,
- A4-SFX is currently the best SFF shoe-box case below 10 litres (GHOST S1 XS is just 1 litre bigger, which will be probably "unnoticeable" by most people, but it is still not on the market to make a real life comparison, so we can only comment its design).
In my opinion those three points cannot be argued with, because those are true. In shoe-box style cases below 10L volume there is almost no competition which in the future could cause "not healthy" situation. If GHOST S1 will succeed, then customers will have a choice. Competition is a good thing, because it makes a progress. Companies have to improve their products to get bigger market share. It is always good for us, customers, and we have to always point-out what is good or bad with their product, or why other products are better. If we will always be saying something is "best", then we will never make a progress as a community and we will never get better products. Life is brutal and sometimes there is no place for "political correctness".
Quick example (basing only on the designs):
-GHOST S1 has better than A4-SFX access to components during pc installation,
-GHOST S1 has thicker panels than A4-SFX, so the whole contstrucion will be probably more stiff (it has to be checked with production units),
-GHOST S1 uses almost no plastic elements and side panels are slided in the thick rails and after that screwed with screws, while A4-SFX has this push-pin side panels mounting system which with time will need to replace plastic inserts (+ for LianLi for providing an option to buy them) and some people are writing in comments that this mounting doesn't feel as secure as it would be with the screws, but it "does the job". I don't like using plasticin in a construction, because with time it will always need to be replaced, so in my books it is still +1 for GHOST.
-GHOST S1 is a case which with just an additional accessory can compete with cases from other segments (for example mentioned C4-SFX). I'm not a big fan of those "hat" things, but if I had A4 and I want to add full-size water cooling inside my case I need to... buy another, different case. With this GHOST S1 i just buy this accessory without the need of spending money for another case.
-A4-SFX at current stage feels like more "cost-effective" in terms of production. LianLi has their molds and punching presses which not only can speed-up the production, but can lower the costs. Elements of GHOST S1 don't have many bendings, but because of the need of using CNC milling in many spots, I'm not sure if the profit will high enough to think about investments in better machines or in the improvements to the product itself. This is probably a confidential information, so we can only speculate in this matter.
-A4-SFX do not have some "fancy" top grill. Is there a need for this top-grill to be attached with magnetic pins? Can we screw it to the case through those venting holes? Whole case seems very stiff and well folded and then... this top grill. Even if GHOST S1 has in my opinion better side panel mounting, if i couldn't screw this top grill with the rest of the case, then for transport purposes I would choose A4-SFX, because i would be afraid of loosing this element. You don't want the screws to be seen from outside? Those magnetic pins probably increases the cost in comparison to the screws. Is there any other reason for using them than aesthetics?
-Long PCI-E riser again.... Can it be achieved somewhere else than directly from your company? I want to know its versatility. Mounting points position are similar to some other companies risers, so we could change your riser to some other one? Will the separate price of your riser kill customers? Can your riser replace A4-SFX riser (3M riser)? Short risers are OK... I hate long risers
-I won't talk much about the aesthetics of both cases, because both looks great, but this is a matter of individual taste.
I'm a fan of A4-SFX design - as a case in this shape form factor (even if i do not like long-riser designs), but the improvements and changes in version 2.0 compared to 1.0 disappointed me. With GHOST S1 I feel a breath of fresh air in this form factor and I think it will push dondan to make a future, V3 revision of his case. Whatever will happen, if Puchalski will succeed with his campaign, we (customers) will finally have a choice (two great cases to pick from)
Once again sorry if my statements or questions offended anyone, but I think some things had to be said for the good of future customers, and sooner or later someone else would ask them anyway
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You don't think they've tried that?
JayzTwoCents and some other Youtuber (don't remember who) is going to review it during the Kickstarter campaign IIRC.
With LTT it's not that easy. We've got that chance because at the point we've shown our project on their forum, competition was quite bulky in volume (RVZ01) and we've had nice visuals comparing that, AND Linus himself said he'd like to check it out.
We've sent our cases to him a whole year later and he still took his time to review it personally. The review went up more than a month after it was delivered, I think, so it wasn't like they dropped everything to do it ASAP. Linus was already a busy man at this point.
At that time we also knew that timing a review with campaign could be hard to achieve after seeing that rushed hardware canucks review of cerberus, so we've decided to go with newsletter subscription on our site, which still isn't a perfect option from the perspective of the client.
I think that the best approach would be send ~10 cases to reviewers/influencers and wait for the first one or two to be ready to launch the campaign, and hope that others will catch up during the month of the campaign. But that means no solid timeline for the campaign start...
Pachalski
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2017
- Messages
- 327
The only info i can find on the measurements is on the product website: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-mlc-phoenix-240-radiator-core-module
The only thing it says there are the dimensions: 295 x 133 x 68mm (L x W x H)
The dimensions listed are the same as the old EK-XLC Predator 240, and the picture below are the details of the Predator
I just sent an email to EK to see if they can send me the Details of the new EK MLC Phoenix 240.
This does not look promising at all!
We have now ordered parts for a custom loop with both CPU and GPU water cooled using S TopHat in bottom and and L TopHat on top. Single radiator.
Pachalski
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2017
- Messages
- 327
JayZtwoCents will have it by 3 pm today! LTT & HWC would not make an exception from their "not in retail - no review"-rule, Jay did!
Pachalski
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2017
- Messages
- 327
Sory, Nie chciałem za bardzo pisać po polsku... po prostu pokazać ze znam język!
I agree with you on many points! The selling points should be implied here and there and I guess most see them but avoid the direct comparison. We are looking forward to a head to head by someone impartial that will be able to specify all the different pros and cons objectively.
Next time I’m in Poland we’ll need to
meet up and have a chat! There are likely many synergies we and the community could gain from! Are you based in Warsaw?
Pachalski
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2017
- Messages
- 327
For gaming I’m sure you will be 100% fine without delidyng! We have synthetically loaded that exact CPU, with the L9x65 on top, with Prime95 in an XS with no throttling... however fan at full speed. Gaming will seldom result in that kind of CPU load.
Jayz? I hope they payed them very hansomely otherwise expect a very bad review.
illram
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 1,473
Maybe it felt a little bit harsh, but I didn't want to offend anyone (I'm sorry if someone felt offended by what I wrote). Many people don't like me or my little bro, just because we don't have or use something which is called "political correctness". When we see something, we are always writing how we see it, to make the direct information. We prefer that someone will don't like us, than he will think we aren't honest with him in what we say. We are not politicians or marketing guys, but we are here to help each other to make a progress. Soft language is sometimes an obstacle in making decisions or even improvements. If someone did something better than someone else, it should be noticed. I just wrote MY thoughts about this design, and those were MY thoughts. Everyone may have a different opinion and I respect it.
And about the comparison to the A4:
- GHOST S1 XS is a direct competition to DAN A4-SFX,
- GHOST S1 S, M, L is a direct competition to DAN C4-SFX,
- A4-SFX is currently the best SFF shoe-box case below 10 litres (GHOST S1 XS is just 1 litre bigger, which will be probably "unnoticeable" by most people, but it is still not on the market to make a real life comparison, so we can only comment its design).
In my opinion those three points cannot be argued with, because those are true. In shoe-box style cases below 10L volume there is almost no competition which in the future could cause "not healthy" situation. If GHOST S1 will succeed, then customers will have a choice. Competition is a good thing, because it makes a progress. Companies have to improve their products to get bigger market share. It is always good for us, customers, and we have to always point-out what is good or bad with their product, or why other products are better. If we will always be saying something is "best", then we will never make a progress as a community and we will never get better products. Life is brutal and sometimes there is no place for "political correctness".
Quick example (basing only on the designs):
-GHOST S1 has better than A4-SFX access to components during pc installation,
-GHOST S1 has thicker panels than A4-SFX, so the whole contstrucion will be probably more stiff (it has to be checked with production units),
-GHOST S1 uses almost no plastic elements and side panels are slided in the thick rails and after that screwed with screws, while A4-SFX has this push-pin side panels mounting system which with time will need to replace plastic inserts (+ for LianLi for providing an option to buy them) and some people are writing in comments that this mounting doesn't feel as secure as it would be with the screws, but it "does the job". I don't like using plasticin in a construction, because with time it will always need to be replaced, so in my books it is still +1 for GHOST.
-GHOST S1 is a case which with just an additional accessory can compete with cases from other segments (for example mentioned C4-SFX). I'm not a big fan of those "hat" things, but if I had A4 and I want to add full-size water cooling inside my case I need to... buy another, different case. With this GHOST S1 i just buy this accessory without the need of spending money for another case.
-A4-SFX at current stage feels like more "cost-effective" in terms of production. LianLi has their molds and punching presses which not only can speed-up the production, but can lower the costs. Elements of GHOST S1 don't have many bendings, but because of the need of using CNC milling in many spots, I'm not sure if the profit will high enough to think about investments in better machines or in the improvements to the product itself. This is probably a confidential information, so we can only speculate in this matter.
-A4-SFX do not have some "fancy" top grill. Is there a need for this top-grill to be attached with magnetic pins? Can we screw it to the case through those venting holes? Whole case seems very stiff and well folded and then... this top grill. Even if GHOST S1 has in my opinion better side panel mounting, if i couldn't screw this top grill with the rest of the case, then for transport purposes I would choose A4-SFX, because i would be afraid of loosing this element. You don't want the screws to be seen from outside? Those magnetic pins probably increases the cost in comparison to the screws. Is there any other reason for using them than aesthetics?
-Long PCI-E riser again.... Can it be achieved somewhere else than directly from your company? I want to know its versatility. Mounting points position are similar to some other companies risers, so we could change your riser to some other one? Will the separate price of your riser kill customers? Can your riser replace A4-SFX riser (3M riser)? Short risers are OK... I hate long risers
-I won't talk much about the aesthetics of both cases, because both looks great, but this is a matter of individual taste.
I'm a fan of A4-SFX design - as a case in this shape form factor (even if i do not like long-riser designs), but the improvements and changes in version 2.0 compared to 1.0 disappointed me. With GHOST S1 I feel a breath of fresh air in this form factor and I think it will push dondan to make a future, V3 revision of his case. Whatever will happen, if Puchalski will succeed with his campaign, we (customers) will finally have a choice (two great cases to pick from)
Once again sorry if my statements or questions offended anyone, but I think some things had to be said for the good of future customers, and sooner or later someone else would ask them anyway
All of that is fair and I myself am looking forward to comparing these two cases. Ghost definitely brings more options to the table thanks to it's slightly larger size and tophats. I don't think anyone is offended by you calling the A4 a "cheap chinese product," instead I think it's just incorrect (and over the top). It detracts from whatever rational points you want to make.
Not surprising.
For me Linus is just a horribly annoying little monkey clown, so I'm actually happy I won't have to suffer though a review by him...