GHOST S1 - When both size & performance matters

dondan

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On early pictures they use 3M but on the last version it looks like LiHeat riser cable.
 
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That case is very similar to the DAN A4-SFX.
No Problem because it has very nice Tweaks like the Top Hat Cooler possibilities and a bigger CPU Heatsink.

How about make the case a little bit bigger to support 2,5 or 3 Slot GPUs.
This would be awesome.

The second thing: A Single USB Front Port would be nice.
 

Pachalski

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Pachalski It might have already been mentioned but what make of PCIe riser is going to be included is it a 3M 3.0 cable?

We are going with the Li-Heat riser. It is slightly cheaper but more importantly it will allow us to ship the product faster.
 

Pachalski

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That case is very similar to the DAN A4-SFX.
No Problem because it has very nice Tweaks like the Top Hat Cooler possibilities and a bigger CPU Heatsink.

How about make the case a little bit bigger to support 2,5 or 3 Slot GPUs.
This would be awesome.

The second thing: A Single USB Front Port would be nice.

A case that fits 2,5 or 3 slot GPUs is a different animal, it's target customer is someone who puts performance over size and aesthetics. If we manage to get the Ghost of the ground, we might look into doing that sort of thing!
 

Pachalski

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A small but potentially important question.

The updated design is allowing us to pack the components efficiently and reduce the package volume significantly, think IKEA-style and flat packaging. Shipping the case assembled will put us in a “dimension weight” bracket, where the volume dictates the freight cost instead of weight.

Shipping the case in a flat package is a possibility that we would like to get your input on. The benefits are a 30% reduction in transport cost with slight region variations. The drawback is that you’ll need to do some of the assembly work yourselves, specifically the 6 screws that hold the “Spine” together, the two riser screws and the 4 power button PCB screws.
 
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A small but potentially important question.

The updated design is allowing us to pack the components efficiently and reduce the package volume significantly, think IKEA-style and flat packaging. Shipping the case assembled will put us in a “dimension weight” bracket, where the volume dictates the freight cost instead of weight.

Shipping the case in a flat package is a possibility that we would like to get your input on. The benefits are a 30% reduction in transport cost with slight region variations. The drawback is that you’ll need to do some of the assembly work yourselves, specifically the 6 screws that hold the “Spine” together, the two riser screws and the 4 power button PCB screws.

I think when people buy a case this small, they're already agreeing to the fact that it'll be a lot of work putting it together, managing cables, getting everything to fit snug, etc. When someone is going for a case this small they probably already have a lot of experience building computers. I don't think having to screw a couple pieces together will deter anyone from wanting the case, especially if it reduces cost of shipping, which I know was an issue for a lot of people during the first Kickstarter.
 
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Flat pack is an excellent idea for saving some money on shipping. I say go for it, especially considering how turned off people were by the shipping costs during your last Kickstarter. Anything you can do to bring the cost down is appreciated.
 
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It's a shame that the the L12S is 70mm. Just as a thought experiment, what would the total volume of the case be if it was extended 4mm to accommodate the new cooler? I don't think it'd be so much extending it to accommodate the "next cooler" as ensuring future compatibility with all sorts of low-profile top-down coolers. I don't imagine Noctua will ever make it wider. They only extended it to support standard RAM (I think Corsair Vengeance LPX fits) with the new slim 120mm fan mounted to the bottom, which makes a notable difference in temperatures and noise. Considering the L12 was the reason for extending the side panel in the first place as it delivers much better performance than the L9x65, I think it's worth extending the case a bit more to accommodate the new version. The L12 is being discontinued, so in my view the case should either be shortened to the level of the PSU for Li9 support or widened to accommodate the L12S, but the current status quo seems a bit pointless now. Here are a few more advantages that will come with extending the case:

- You'll be able to fit a 140mm fan under the PSU
- You'll be able to fit a 280mm radiator with a top hat
- L12S will make X99/X299 builds feasible as it is rated for 140W. You'll be looking at much better temperatures and a lot less noise compared to the T318/R15+A9x14
- You will have room for a headphone/mic jack in the front I/O. This is an important feature for some. For instance, my motherboard has an integrated headphone amp that only works with the front audio
- You may be able to fit a 2.5" drive between the PSU and graphics card, tho I realize that will require reworking the PSU mounting mechanism and that area will get seriously hot, but with a bottom 140mm fan you should be able to keep it cool. That will enable having dual 2.5" drives + a bottom 140mm fan. Alternatively, you'd have space for stashing excess cabling behind the PSU.

Seems like a decent list of benefits for extending the case a few mm. Perhaps run a poll? Just my thoughts.
 
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It's a shame that the the L12S is 70mm. Just as a thought experiment, what would the total volume of the case be if it was extended 4mm to accommodate the new cooler? I don't think it'd be so much extending it to accommodate the "next cooler" as ensuring future compatibility with all sorts of low-profile top-down coolers. I don't imagine Noctua will ever make it wider. They only extended it to support standard RAM (with no heatsinks) with the new slim 120mm fan mounted to the bottom, which makes a notable difference in temperatures and noise. Considering the L12 was the reason for extending the side panel in the first place as it delivers much better performance than the L9x65, I think it's worth extending the case a bit more to accommodate the new version. The L12 is being discontinued, so in my view the case should either be shortened to the level of the PSU for Li9 support or widened to accommodate the L12S, but the current status quo seems a bit pointless now. Here are a few more advantages that will come with extending the case:

- You'll be able to fit a 140mm fan under the PSU
- You'll be able to fit a 280mm radiator with a top hat
- L12S will make X99/X299 builds feasible as it is rated for 140W. You'll be looking at much better temperatures and a lot less noise compared to the T318/R15+A9x14
- You will have room for a headphone/mic jack in the front I/O. This is an important feature for some. For instance, my motherboard has an integrated headphone amp that only works with the front audio
- You may be able to fit a 2.5" drive between the PSU and graphics card, tho I realize that will require reworking the PSU mounting mechanism and that area will get seriously hot, but with a bottom 140mm fan you should be able to keep it cool. That will enable having dual 2.5" drives + a bottom 140mm fan.

Seems like a decent list of benefits for extending the case a few mm. Perhaps run a poll? Just my thoughts.

I think it's a little late to be making a change like that. They're in production of the demo cases for reviewers and I'd think they'd prefer the case going to reviewers be the same case that goes to the public. Also there is basically no front I/O anymore, besides the power button, so adding audio jacks to the front would look a bit out of place. Maybe they'll take your points into consideration when designing the next iteration of the case.

Also I've made this point before, but they can't keep adapting the case to fit the current "best" cpu cooler. The L12S is 70mm now which is a shame, but using a "worse" cooler isn't going to be THAT much worse. And say they did adapt the Ghost to fit the 70mm cooler, what if next year Noctua revises it again and it's 72mm? Do they extend the case again? I think if you're trying to get the absolute BEST temps possible out of this case, go with a water cooler. That's the whole point of the L Top Hat isn't it?
 
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I think it's a little late to be making a change like that. They're in production of the demo cases for reviewers and I'd think they'd prefer the case going to reviewers be the same case that goes to the public. Also there is basically no front I/O anymore, besides the power button, so adding audio jacks to the front would look a bit out of place. Maybe they'll take your points into consideration when designing the next iteration of the case.

Also I've made this point before, but they can't keep adapting the case to fit the current "best" cpu cooler. The L12S is 70mm now which is a shame, but using a "worse" cooler isn't going to be THAT much worse. And say they did adapt the Ghost to fit the 70mm cooler, what if next year Noctua revises it again and it's 72mm? Do they extend the case again? I think if you're trying to get the absolute BEST temps possible out of this case, go with a water cooler. That's the whole point of the L Top Hat isn't it?

Again, I think without the L12, the current width of the case doesn't make sense. And again, I don't think Noctua would do that anytime soon. If they revise the cooler in 5 years, then a revision of the case could be considered then. To me it makes little sense to extend the case to fit a particular cooler that's been around for 5 years, then the company that makes it makes a 4mm change to accommodate a slim 120mm fan, and then you decide not to support it anymore, because it seems too specific-to-a-product change... Anyway, I've given my input. I guess the case has undergone changes since the initial design and is nearing production, so changes can't be made now. I became aware of it a few days ago haha. The main 2 things that got me excited about it was 1) fully-featured front I/O and 2) Fitting the L12. And honestly, with both of those gone, there's hardly much distinguishing it from the A4-SFX. The top hats are cool, but at 10.5L with the top-rad config, you're solidly out of the USFF space and into a place where +1-2L doesn't make a noticeable difference, so you may as well get an M1 or a cheap SG13, etc.
 
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illram

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It's a never ending cycle to increase the width. It was already increased to 66mm to accommodate the L12; they can't just continually increase the width every time Noctua comes out with something new.
 

Pachalski

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It's a never ending cycle to increase the width. It was already increased to 66mm to accommodate the L12; they can't just continually increase the width every time Noctua comes out with something new.

QuantumBraced you are making some very convincing points and we defiantly understand them. There are several benefits to the case being wider than before other than the CPU clearance, even the Li9 performs better with some additional head-room.

This exact topic has been discussed on other forums as well. The case width was increased to accommodate the NH-L9x65, there was never any talk of the L12 earlier. When we tested everything in practice it proved to fit the L12 - great, a nice bonus! There will always be a better air cooler option out there but as Yourflyisdwn said the water cooling option is there for the performance junkies
 
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It's a shame that the the L12S is 70mm. Just as a thought experiment, what would the total volume of the case be if it was extended 4mm to accommodate the new cooler? I don't think it'd be so much extending it to accommodate the "next cooler" as ensuring future compatibility with all sorts of low-profile top-down coolers. I don't imagine Noctua will ever make it wider. They only extended it to support standard RAM (I think Corsair Vengeance LPX fits) with the new slim 120mm fan mounted to the bottom, which makes a notable difference in temperatures and noise. Considering the L12 was the reason for extending the side panel in the first place as it delivers much better performance than the L9x65, I think it's worth extending the case a bit more to accommodate the new version. The L12 is being discontinued, so in my view the case should either be shortened to the level of the PSU for Li9 support or widened to accommodate the L12S, but the current status quo seems a bit pointless now. Here are a few more advantages that will come with extending the case:

- You'll be able to fit a 140mm fan under the PSU
- You'll be able to fit a 280mm radiator with a top hat
- L12S will make X99/X299 builds feasible as it is rated for 140W. You'll be looking at much better temperatures and a lot less noise compared to the T318/R15+A9x14
- You will have room for a headphone/mic jack in the front I/O. This is an important feature for some. For instance, my motherboard has an integrated headphone amp that only works with the front audio
- You may be able to fit a 2.5" drive between the PSU and graphics card, tho I realize that will require reworking the PSU mounting mechanism and that area will get seriously hot, but with a bottom 140mm fan you should be able to keep it cool. That will enable having dual 2.5" drives + a bottom 140mm fan. Alternatively, you'd have space for stashing excess cabling behind the PSU.

Seems like a decent list of benefits for extending the case a few mm. Perhaps run a poll? Just my thoughts.

It may be too late to make these changes, but if you could really fit a 280mm rad with just a 4mm increase in width then that seems like it would be worth it. Would that actually be possible? I feel like they'd have to extend it to about 6-8 mm.

Honestly, the appeal of this case to me over the NCase M1 is the vertical mount to the GPU and the radiator at the top of the case (more logical layout IMO). The SG13 is my current case, and while it's certainly a great budget case, it lacks good radiator support (I currently use an H60).
 

Pachalski

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It may be too late to make these changes, but if you could really fit a 280mm rad with just a 4mm increase in width then that seems like it would be worth it. Would that actually be possible? I feel like they'd have to extend it to about 6-8 mm.

Honestly, the appeal of this case to me over the NCase M1 is the vertical mount to the GPU and the radiator at the top of the case (more logical layout IMO). The SG13 is my current case, and while it's certainly a great budget case, it lacks good radiator support (I currently use an H60).

In theory the case would need to be increased 6 mm in width in order to fit a 280 mm rad. However, there are two dimensions that need to be considered when discussing this, both the width and the length. As you can see on the homepage (now updated by the way, but we are still working on it) the TopHats are narrower in the front and in the back, the radiator would need to fit between those narrower areas. The distance between these corner bulges is 284.0 mm, leaving only 4 mm of wiggle room front to back and many AIOs are actually longer than 280 mm. With a 240 radiator, the fact that you can freely slide the radiator back and forth, adjust it to your specific pipe stiffness' and lengths is crucial to make the installation easy (maybe even possible). In a custom loop scenario this flexibility might not be needed but the majority will likely not do custom loops.

Does this make sense? The point is that it would require a significant amount of testing with different makes of rads on new prototypes in order to comfortably be able to offer this. We simply do not have the time nor resources to do that now. An increase in width could also be used to fit 2.5-slot GPUs which could be argued is a better allocation of space.

y6.png
 

dondan

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The new website looks great. I love the color scheme.

Btw. I found two errors in your specs:

1.) LiHeat riser don't use twin axial shielding technology (twin axial requieres a shield around every pair of wires.)

2.) On the drawing the dimensions are 188x140x322 ( HxWxL ) one line after it you write 183x140x320.

Keep up the good work :)
 
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Messages
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In theory the case would need to be increased 6 mm in width in order to fit a 280 mm rad. However, there are two dimensions that need to be considered when discussing this, both the width and the length. As you can see on the homepage (now updated by the way, but we are still working on it) the TopHats are narrower in the front and in the back, the radiator would need to fit between those narrower areas. The distance between these corner bulges is 284.0 mm, leaving only 4 mm of wiggle room front to back and many AIOs are actually longer than 280 mm. With a 240 radiator, the fact that you can freely slide the radiator back and forth, adjust it to your specific pipe stiffness' and lengths is crucial to make the installation easy (maybe even possible). In a custom loop scenario this flexibility might not be needed but the majority will likely not do custom loops.

Does this make sense? The point is that it would require a significant amount of testing with different makes of rads on new prototypes in order to comfortably be able to offer this. We simply do not have the time nor resources to do that now. An increase in width could also be used to fit 2.5-slot GPUs which could be argued is a better allocation of space.

Thanks for your elaboration. When you say there would be 284mm of available space, you mean just for the radiator, not for the reservoir/fittings portion, correct? The Kraken X62 is listed as 315mm long, but that's total length, which I'm guessing the S1 would be able to accommodate.

I agree with your points, but I frankly think it will be a matter of figuring out which 480mm radiators work best as far as tube thickness/length and then everyone would just get that. You'd have flexibility for 240mm ones, but for 280mm ones there would be preferred options due to the more limited space. To me, difficulty with mounting is not really an issue, because you only have to do it once. You don't need to remove the radiator to do anything else in the case, so I don't image people will mess with it much once installed.

But I understand that 280mm support would be tricky and require lots of testing. I think our discussion at this point is about a future revision of the case.

I disagree with 2.5-slot support being a better use of space. Your performance bottleneck without a radiator tophat is the CPU. There are lots of 2-slot 1080 Tis that perform on par with 2.5 slot cards, e.g. EVGA's FTW, even if they're a bit louder sometimes (often aren't). Needless to say, anyone considering this case in the air cooling config should buy an L12 immediately while they're still available. The L9x65 doesn't compare, it hardly offers an improvement over the L9i.
 
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Needless to say, anyone considering this case in the air cooling config should buy an L12 immediately while they're still available.

This right here. I bought one a few weeks ago once I heard they were close to rolling out the new revision. If you plan to buy this case, drop the ~$60 now and get this cooler while you can. Worse case scenario and you don't buy Ghost, you can probably turn the cooler for a profit later on from people who will buy the case.
 

Pachalski

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Thanks for your elaboration. When you say there would be 284mm of available space, you mean just for the radiator, not for the reservoir/fittings portion, correct? The Kraken X62 is listed as 315mm long, but that's total length, which I'm guessing the S1 would be able to accommodate.

This is the the problem, fittings, pumps and other parts that will need to fit in the top have different dimensions and it is unclear if they will fit. This image might help understand the challenge, the measurements in the image are the current ones, add 6mm to the width and you will see what would be:

thmeasurements.PNG


I agree with your points, but I frankly think it will be a matter of figuring out which 480mm radiators work best as far as tube thickness/length and then everyone would just get that. You'd have flexibility for 240mm ones, but for 280mm ones there would be preferred options due to the more limited space. To me, difficulty with mounting is not really an issue, because you only have to do it once. You don't need to remove the radiator to do anything else in the case, so I don't image people will mess with it much once installed.

But I understand that 280mm support would be tricky and require lots of testing. I think our discussion at this point is about a future revision of the case.

Good point! And yes, in a future revision or simply another larger model this will be very relevant.
 

Pachalski

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We have som free time next week and would love to use it for something interesting! We have a small budget for this and would love you input here, what would you like to see? Maybe some more tests on the Alpha prototype, CPU heat sink comparison, GPU compatibility, dual 120 AIO experimentation, sounds of parts of dropping etc... please give us some suggestions what you would like to see!
 

kingtron

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We have som free time next week and would love to use it for something interesting! We have a small budget for this and would love you input here, what would you like to see? Maybe some more tests on the Alpha prototype, CPU heat sink comparison, GPU compatibility, dual 120 AIO experimentation, sounds of parts of dropping etc... please give us some suggestions what you would like to see!
Dual 120 AIO experimentation please :)
81290310-C53D-4477-B97B-DF63366898A5.jpeg
 

greyhound

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As the noctua 12l will soon stop to be available it would be nice to test the case with another top level cpu cooler able to fit
 

amagus

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We have som free time next week and would love to use it for something interesting! We have a small budget for this and would love you input here, what would you like to see? Maybe some more tests on the Alpha prototype, CPU heat sink comparison, GPU compatibility, dual 120 AIO experimentation, sounds of parts of dropping etc... please give us some suggestions what you would like to see!

Another vote for dual 120 AIO testing. Support for that will pretty much determine whether I will consider this case when I start my new build next year.
 

Pachalski

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Then i vote on Thermalright AXP-100RH to compare.

http://thermalright.com/product/axp-100rh/

or

Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP + Noctua NF-A12x15 PVM Fan.

OK, we will very likely do this CPU cooler testing. It does not mean we won't do the dual 120 experiments.

Be Quiet is fine, Thermalright is tough to find in Sweden. Right now we have the following cooler included in the test:


- Noctua NH-L9i
- Noctua NH-L9i + Noctua NF-B9 redux-1600 92mm
- Noctua NH-L9x65
- Noctua NH-L12
- ZALMAN - CNPS8900 Quiet
- Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP + Noctua NF-A12x15 PVM


Any other cooler we should add to the line-up?
 

rfarmer

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OK, we will very likely do this CPU cooler testing. It does not mean we won't do the dual 120 experiments.

Be Quiet is fine, Thermalright is tough to find in Sweden. Right now we have the following cooler included in the test:


- Noctua NH-L9i
- Noctua NH-L9i + Noctua NF-B9 redux-1600 92mm
- Noctua NH-L9x65
- Noctua NH-L12
- ZALMAN - CNPS8900 Quiet
- Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP + Noctua NF-A12x15 PVM


Any other cooler we should add to the line-up?

Phanteks PH-TC12LS with Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM, cooler is 48mm without fan but comes with 25mm fan which would make it too tall.
 

Jonas Mellkvist

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I
OK, we will very likely do this CPU cooler testing. It does not mean we won't do the dual 120 experiments.

Be Quiet is fine, Thermalright is tough to find in Sweden. Right now we have the following cooler included in the test:


- Noctua NH-L9i
- Noctua NH-L9i + Noctua NF-B9 redux-1600 92mm
- Noctua NH-L9x65
- Noctua NH-L12
- ZALMAN - CNPS8900 Quiet
- Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP + Noctua NF-A12x15 PVM


Any other cooler we should add to the line-up?

Have order alot of Coolers and other components from Germany takes 2-3 days to Sweden and Good support.
 

backfeed

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Jonas Mellkvist

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I just ordered an NH-L12 (and a free NM-AM4 mounting kit directly from Noctua). Better safe than sorry. :p



Thermalright AXP-100H Muscle is available in Sweden (well, technically Denmark), albeit expensive and it'd probably take a week or so before you'd get it:

https://www.proshop.se/CPU-flaektar/Thermalright-AXP-100H-Muscle-CPU-flaektar-Luftkylare-/2589589

Better order from Germany.

https://direkt.jacob.de/Prozessoren...edium=cpc&utm_campaign=Preisvergleich&ref=109
 
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Messages
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This has probably been asked before, but would it be possible in a future revision to move the PSU up a bit to accommodate a 120 AIO + slim 120mm fan under it? The A4-SFX v2 will allow for a 92mm AIO to be installed under the PSU, and the Ghost S1 allows for a 120mm mount in that spot, which would make watercooling possible without a top hat. I understand that would create internal competition between the different configs of the case, but it would be pretty cool, probably would make it the smallest case that accommodates a 120mm AIO.
 

dondan

[H]ard|Gawd
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With a length of 150-160mm a 120mm radiator is longer as the psu and will collide with the motherboard.
 
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