GHDFC, why lord why

Discussion in 'Linux/BSD/Free Systems' started by Deadjasper, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Deadjasper

    Deadjasper [H]ard|Gawd

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    Trying to burn a music CD using K3B in Ubuntu-MATE. The songs I want to burn are on a second HD named DATA. On the right hand side of K3B (Directory Tree??), DATA is nowhere to be found. So how the hell do I burn said songs??? Stupid shit like this is what makes Linux so fucking unusable. I have no need to see the gibberish it's showing me, all I need to see is my files.

    If someone can recommend a better burning program I would appreciate it. :)
     
  2. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    There's stupid shit like manuals.
     
  3. Deadjasper

    Deadjasper [H]ard|Gawd

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    Thanks but manuals should not be necessary for simple stuff like ACCESSING A HARDDRIVE THAT MOUNTED AND FUNCTIONING PROPERLY IN THE SYSTEM !!! Your solution, which I'm sure works altho I haven't tried it yet is also stupid shit, stupid shit that should not be necessary. I should be able to access the drive from within K3B.
     
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  4. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just use Brasero, I use Brasero all the time to burn data CD/DVD's and it works a treat, it's drag and drop so no issues locating files assuming you can locate them in file manager.

    Linux isn't a Windows clone, you need to keep that in mind. ;)
     
  5. Lunar

    Lunar Limp Gawd

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    The problem you are experiencing likely due to how GNOME based DE's handle mounted drives. Linux already doesn't handle drive mounting in the same way as Windows, but in this case you're probably letting the automated systems under the hood handle the mounting for you. So what has happened is that gvfs is effectively taking over. K3B, as a QT application designed primarily for use in KDE, doesn't hook into gvfs, and therefor mounts handled by gvfs do not appear in it's menu system. To fix this problem you should have 3 options.

    1. Use Brasero as it is designed for use in GNOME/GTK environments and has the necessary gvfs hooks.
    2. Navigate to the mount path. Should be something like /run/user/1000/gvfs/(drive uuid)
    3. Manually configure the fstab to mount the drive in a location you tell it to

    You must remember, that linux mounts drives to existing folders. So for instance, I can create a folder in my home directory for mounting another drive and subsequently mount it as such:

    mkdir ~/data_drive
    mount -t (ext4,ntfs,fat) /dev/sdxy ~/data_drive (replacing the x with the correct drive identifier, and y with the correct partition i.e. sdb1)

    So, your /etc/fstab to permanently do this for say an ext4 drive would be something like this:
    UUID=(parition specific UUID here) /home/lunar/data_drive ext4 defaults 0 0

    gvfs and KIO both make mounting drives easier, but they also rely on applications hooking into their various functions to make them useful. You can usually rely on GTK applications to hook into gvfs and QT applications to hook into KIO. Out of the two, I personally prefer how gvfs handles things, because unlike KIO it actually creates a mount point that's accessible, whereas KIO is logical and is completely reliant on application support. At least with gvfs you can navigate to it's /run/user/blah mount point manually.

    Like Bullet said, none of this is actually hard or even wrong, it's just different from what you're used to.


    P.S. There is a fourth option that I personally use for my network shares called autofs, but I don't recommend fiddling with that until you get the other stuff down.
     
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  6. Lunar

    Lunar Limp Gawd

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    I'd also like to add that you aren't really being all that helpful Boonie. Attitudes like that are one of the reasons the Linux community has a reputation for having elitist assholes in it. Also, considering Jasper is running Ubuntu MATE, you suggestion wont work for the reasons I provided in my previous post. K3B wont integrate into MATE cleanly like it does in KDE. So in this case RTFM doesn't really work all that well, and having a bit of understanding of how the underlying systems in different DE's comes in handy. Instead of helping someone who is trying to give Linux a go, you've instead caused them to lash out in anger, justifiably I might add, and further turned them off to Linux. The correct solution would be to try and actually lend assistance without condescension so that they can learn and grow from the experience.

    Everyone has to start from somewhere, and no one is going to know all of this crap right off the bat.
     
  7. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well if the manual doesn't work then this application is indeed broken. Also there's a difference between asking for help and ranting about shit not working.
     
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  8. Lunar

    Lunar Limp Gawd

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    True, but that could also just be venting off some steam. I'm pretty sure we've all been so frustrated we just explode. Adding fuel to the fire doesn't typically make matters better. For example, I aired some frustrations on here early on into my switch to Linux, and Bullet gave me some suggestions/help in a calm manner, and we got the problem solved.

    EDIT: And, in the linux world, expecting the "manual" to cover all circumstances, especially the circumstance in which the application is being used in an environment that it was never designed around, is kinda silly. K3B is designed with KDE as the expected platform. Expecting the developers to add documentation for running K3B on a GTK based DE like MATE or GNOME is kinda silly. It doesn't mean that the application is broken, it means that it is a perfeect example of the Linux problem. As much as I love Linux, I still maintain that its biggest strength is also its biggest weakness. I love that GTK and QT are both options developers have, but that flexibility causes issues. QT apps will work in a GTK environment, but they aren't going to integrate very well. The same is true for GTK -> QT. This isn't the applications fault, it's the nature of the beast.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  9. thebufenator

    thebufenator Gawd

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    Def never seen the resident nix users rant about Windows.

    Ever.
     
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  10. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Your post is helpful but it also clearly shows that even 2% is too good for Linux desktop.
     
  11. Lunar

    Lunar Limp Gawd

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    2% what? Marketshare? Please do tell, how does my post illustrate why Linux sucks? I'd love to hear this one.
     
  12. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Yes, marketshare. The mentioned solutions to a problem that shouldn't exist illustrate it.
     
  13. Lunar

    Lunar Limp Gawd

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    Just because something operates differently doesn't inherently make it bad. That being said, I kind of agree with you, because as I've stated before, the openess of Linux is a double edged sword. It's awesome because of the freedom, but it does create little issues like this. That however, is why a good distribution will take these types of things into account and not prepackage software that doesn't integrate well into the chosen environment. To this point, Ubuntu MATE comes preinstalled with Brasero which integrates into a GTK environment.
     
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  14. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    The question is how did the OP end up with a burner that was not suitable for his distribution.
     
  15. Lunar

    Lunar Limp Gawd

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    If i had to guess, it was probably due to lack of familiarity. They probably weren't aware that a CD burning application comes preinstalled, hopped into the software installer, found one, and installed it.

    EDIT: Also, it isn't that K3B isn't suitable, it'll work just fine. It's just that it doesn't hook into the desktop environment the OP is using. The application will still function as intended, albeit without the necessary hooks to use gvfs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017 at 8:36 AM
  16. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'd say it's unsuitable if it's not compatible with the filesystem and doesn't hook to the UI menus as advertised in the manual.
     
  17. Lunar

    Lunar Limp Gawd

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    Ok, I'm done with trying to convince you. If you still don't understand to the point that you think it is incompatible with the filesystem, then you haven't been listening. So, I'm done. This is at the point of being a waste of time.
     
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  18. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    User Error is hardly a problem. The program mentioned will not simply have a drive listed on the other side... its mounted to a dir as it should be. There are plenty of "fixes" if you want a specific location to simply show on the left. That doesn't mean its broken or bugged... its working as intended.

    Not meant as a knock on the op.... its just that his system is working exactly as intended. Looking for suggestions to make something work in the way they would like it to is cool... and I'm sure if they read Lunars post they now understand Linux and their machine a bit better. Understanding how your system mounts drives/disks/fs is important.

    Linux doesn't work like Windows no... and yes we should be nicer when people are confused when it doesn't. Understanding mounts is early days Linux stuff... and some people perhaps get sick of explaining that the OS they have known does it so very wrong that the right way looks odd.
     
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  19. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Sorry, but no. This is a regular user oriented distribution and as such should have premounted drives at standardised locations for both the OS and apps. You may claim that Linux does it right as much as you want, but outside servers and distributions like Arch, it doesn't fly and will forever make it all but nonexistent on desktop.
     
  20. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    IT does have things mounted where they are supposed to be. The op choose to install software that did not come installed by default. Cause no Distro installs software intended for another DE by default. lol
     
  21. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    But that's the problem. The fragmentation of everything, including compatibility of user apps. At one point, it becomes a detriment instead of strength. You can make a case for so many DEs, but all user software should work on every user distro as default.
     
  22. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    I don't think your really getting the OPs issue. K3B WORKS. It works just fine on the Mate DE or Gnome or KDE or running open box or anything else you wish as long as you have the right dependencies installed.

    The OP simply don't know where their attached storage is mounted. If they want a physical drive / attached drive / network drive ect to show up as a base directory click they need to tell Linux to do that. Sure some file managers will have a nice click that shows the drives in /media ect... but no matter the distro things go where they go. /media for perna attached devices /mnt for non-perma mounted things like usb keys.

    Anyone that has used Linux for more then a day... knows which directory to open to find his second "DATA" drive. If it isn't there then it wasn't automounted (but as you say this is a user friendly distro and it will have been mounted).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard one distro is like much like the next very few distros stray from the standard Linux FS hierarchy

    So knowing its mounted all we have to do is point his writing software to /media ... where he should find his drive mounted. If they would prefer to mount his drive so that it shows up as the base of his dir tree that is doable, and the info to set that up is easy to find. He can also create symbolic links in his Home dir which in my opinion makes more sense... this would also allow him to instead of linking the drive link specific subfolders on the drive... so he could have /home/torrents for instance that would really point to /media/DATA/torrent... and perhaps in his /home/music he wants to create symbolic links to /media/DATA/MP3 ect ect ect. On my own personal system I have 8 or 9 symolic links in my /home that are reading/writing to multiple physical drives. I set things up and when kids or the wife use my machine, or I share it over the network things are nice and logical... yes when I share through UMS my symbolic links work perfect clicking music brings up stuff I have on multiple drives zero issue. (yes its a poor mans nas setup)

    Nothing is broken... he is simply adjusting to a new Operating system. I'm not seeing any wider Linux sucks issue here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017 at 4:18 AM
  23. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    LOL you just said yourself that the way Gnome automounts shares using gvfs doesn't play together with the application. And now you're hell bent to claim otherwise. It's not a solution for an average user to start mounting drives manually.

    As much as I love linux I also see people's limitations.
     
  24. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Exactly.
     
  25. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    You don't have any experience with end users do you? I have users that even in Windows don't know how to use a Flash drive. Much less where it populates and how to find it...if they can even figure out how to plug it in.
     
  26. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Unfortunately, I do. I have enough trouble getting them to remember the same action across all programs and the entire OS. That's why these sorts of things with Linux are a nightmare for users like them.
     
  27. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    The odd man out OS isn't Linux my friend. Its MSs abomination.

    diskutil mount -mountPoint ~/targetname/ /dev/disk1s1

    That is a OSx command. Mac users seem to get by, their advanced gui menus list uuids mount points ect ect... some people are stupid sure, the majority can handle the proper way to deal with file systems. Mac and Linux aren't all the different then the machines my grandfather used in the 70s. Its MS not doing things right.

    I keep hearing the BS fud that Linux confuses the masses they can't handle it bla bla.... yet every time I for some reason have to go to the local best buy the part time high school kids working in the best buy tech dept seem pretty damn busy with those supposed easy to use no fuss windows machines.

    MS windows was the worst thing to happen to "regular" computer users. Its to bad MS didn't continue down the xenix road.
     
  28. Lunar

    Lunar Limp Gawd

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    So, first off I thought you were the other person I was discussing this with, and didn't take notice of the username. Oops. But, gvfs isn't an actual filesystem as much as it is a process created by the GNOME project intended to make mounting easier. KIO is the same thing but by the kde folks. Those two systems aren't compatible with each other, nor should we really expect them too. That would be the equivalent of asking why a proprietary format for some Adobe product won't open in a competing product. K3B is designed for use with kde first and foremost. It will work in other DE's, but it won't hook into gvfs, not would I expect the kde team to take time to do so. Same is true with brasero and the GNOME team. The Linux filesystem and gvfs/kio are separate entities with different functions.
     
  29. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    MATE has an issue ATM where the CD/DVD creator is not working correctly and the 'write to disk' or 'burn' button is not appearing in the file manager as it should, Brasero is not hooking correctly into the file manager. However, use Brasero as a stand alone application and everything works perfectly as it should.

    I have taken the issue up with the developers of Ubuntu MATE and they are looking into it.

    LOL at Mehoo's comments! I guess ignorance is bliss ;)
     
  30. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Yes, I am ignorant and Linux is doing wonderfully on desktop, it's just ignoramuses like me that just don't get the superior and right way™ of doing things.

    It reminds me of the time I needed some programing tool to work in an obscure distro called Mint, but wound up in dependancy hell. Linux support forums and power users were also ignorant about that one, suprisingly. I had to resort to the wrong way™ of doing things and double-click on an exe to get up and running in seconds. But, hey, I just don't get it and was lazy to only spend two days working on a solution that neither I nor the Mint forum could find.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017 at 8:22 PM
  31. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Linux is fucking awesome on the desktop!

    Updates don't break my PC....Browser works....Email works....Nvidia drivers are awesome....MS Office is shit so I wouldn't use it anyway....

    Switched to Linux 100% and it's stellar, not too sure what your arrogant dribble is ranting on about. Here we have an issue with Brasero not linking in with the file manager, I've got a Windows PC on my bench that won't print no matter what I do since the last update and it looks like I'm going to have to reinstall Windows to rectify the issue - Brasero has a perfectly usable workaround, this Windows 10 PC on my bench....Does not.

    And here you are crapping on about how Windows 10, the worlds most fragmented UI in one OS, is the greatest thing ever.

    I've come to the forgone conclusion that the argument of dependency hell is outdated rubbish. I've got over 70 PPA's added to my install and not a single dependency issue that sudo apt install -f didn't rectify quickly and easily.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017 at 3:21 PM
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  32. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is something I've noted as a problem in linux. There are mutually incompatible software packages for offer in the repositories and it's not at all clear to the end user that some application built on KDE/Gnome won't necessarily work in the other environment. It's especially tricky because sometimes they do work and nothing stops you from installing the wrong DE based app.
     
  33. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's a nightmare for the bottom feeders who are unwilling and unable to learn anything. Those can stick to windows as far as I'm concerned.
     
  34. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    As far as I'm aware, it's only KDE that does this?

    It doesn't really bother me as I don't find the KDE default suite of software applications that good (although I do like KDE as a DE), so I wouldn't consider using any KDE application under any other DE anyway.
     
  35. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Citation needed.

    If you don't have a problem, it doesn't exist, got it.
     
  36. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Such a cop out of a comment. Over 70 PPA's and no 'dependency hell'?! Tell me, how do I induce this issue?
     
  37. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    The citations of my statements are your pictures? I...umm...what?!

    You can't. Your Linux runs perfectly while I and Mint support forum have problems with our inferior abilities.
     
  38. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Right, so now your comeback is act all air headed and vague. Nice.

    Look, you've had your shot, your arguments are thin and largely unfounded and dependency issues also happen under Windows. Furthermore, there are software applications that work fine under Windows 7 that don't work under Windows 10 requiring the purchase of updated software. Many of us are using desktop Linux daily without issue, using desktop Linux is no harder than running macOS.

    Your belief that Linux has no place outside of servers is bullshit, especially in a thread where it's obvious that user error and unfamiliarity is the issue.

    To the OP, I hope you don't give up on Linux and I hope some of us have been able to shed some light on your situation, if I hear back from the Ubuntu MATE developers I'll be sure to let you know.
     
  39. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Since you make up what my arguments are, it's hard to respond.

    I've never said it has no place outside servers, but you've already demostrated you have no intention of addressing what the other person actually said but instead like to respond to made up arguments.

    As for Linux and its suitability for widespread desktop use, I hope you don't listen to me, a random nobody. 98% of users spoke more clearly than I ever could. Maybe if they listened to your solid arguments, they would see the light. Alas, they must all be stupid instead.
     
  40. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger 3.5GB GTX 970 Slayer

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    Pretty humorous that every argument you listed was PEBKAC level stuff! Also, Ms office is untouchable by anything on Linux. If you are a basic user which you seem to be, you might get by with open office of similar, but they are just incomparable overall.