Germany is Fed Up with Pre-Orders and No Release Date

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
55,510
Germany is digging into one of its most important issues facing it today; pre-orders with no release dates. It will soon be law that "coming soon" is not good enough when you put your game up for pre-order in Germany. The Higher Regional Court of Munich has declared that being vague on release dates will no longer be tolerated as reported by the German website Eurogamer via Heise. The case was raised about smartphones, but it seems that more than a few products will be affected. Of course, now all you will have to do is lie about it to get listed again most likely.


"When consumers order goods on the internet, providers must specify by when the goods are delivered," said Wolfgang Schuldzinski, CEO of Dusseldorf Consumer.
 
It's good to see that they are taking care of the important thing like protecting the consumer, since everyting else is simply wonderful. :whistle:
 
I'm sure this will have a wonderful impact on the quality of titles. We'll see more games come out in the state that Ultima Ascension did. Gotta make that deadline!!

On a more serious note, just don't list you game until you know when it's going to be done. Issue solved.
 
Good! It is a shame that it took the recent Star Citizen bs to open some folks eyes to the sheer dishonesty of the "Coming Real Soon Now™ Preorder today!" business model. Perhaps we will get some accountability now. I hope more than Germany gets in on this.
 
I'm sure this will have a wonderful impact on the quality of titles. We'll see more games come out in the state that Ultima Ascension did. Gotta make that deadline!!

I'm having flashbacks to playing...no, attempting to play Ultima 9 when it came out. The thrashing sound of the hard drive is forever imprinted and associated with that game.
 
I'm having flashbacks to playing...no, attempting to play Ultima 9 when it came out. The thrashing sound of the hard drive is forever imprinted and associated with that game.

I had to wait for the replacement disc to arrive before I could even play it. I had a TNT at the time I think. I bought a Voodoo3 though shortly after and it flew on that. By the time I got my TNT2 it was patched up fairly well. It's sad all of the content they had to cut, and all the hacky rewrites just to get it out in time. There are huge areas that are still in the game, but blocked off. You can actually still get to some of them with some tricks. Not the best Ultima game for sure, but it's still a pretty fun game. With all the community patches and upgrades it still looks half-way decent, and plays better than ever. They even fixed some dialog if you play with text instead of speech. I still play through it every couple of years or so. (as well as Pagan, and VII-Complete) I really need to hit U6 again. Haven't played it since it came out really.
 
If something isn't close enough to launch that you can't confidently announce the release date you shouldn't be able to take people's money.

But a way around this is to say "Coming 2025" even though it's 2018.
 
I completely agree with the Germans on this one. I haven't faced this with a game, but i did pre order a music CD in December 2012 and i am still waiting for it to be released !! That must be some kind of a record !! :mad::mad::mad:
 
Just because it has a release date, doesn't mean that it can't be pushed back. Or not sell in Germany until after it's been released everywhere else.

While I have hopes for this law to be good for consumers, I don't doubt loop holes that companies will exploit or weave around for their gain.

...I bought a Voodoo 3 though shortly after and it flew on that. ...
My gateway card.
 
one would think this would be a self correcting issue once enough people get burned by their pre-order.. of what ever product. but alas, it seems there is always a fresh group
 
Why would you pre-order anything that is digital. They're not going to sell out of them. This is something that happened back when there were limited numbers of physical copies (like, back in the SNES days) and where you had to actually physically drive to the store to buy things. Pre-ordering saved you from having to make trips to the store to see if a hot item was in stock. What is the point now, in 2018?
 
Watch a rise in those crunch times for game developers (80+ hrs/wk). Plus incomplete games. Buy the game, find out it was only 80% done. Then pay for the remaining 20% as DLC to see the finale of the main storyline.

Why would you pre-order anything that is digital. They're not going to sell out of them. This is something that happened back when there were limited numbers of physical copies (like, back in the SNES days) and where you had to actually physically drive to the store to buy things. Pre-ordering saved you from having to make trips to the store to see if a hot item was in stock. What is the point now, in 2018?

Sometimes pre-orders have certain perks or rewards. The only game I ever pre-order is the next expansion for World of Warcraft.
 
Why would you pre-order anything that is digital. They're not going to sell out of them. This is something that happened back when there were limited numbers of physical copies (like, back in the SNES days) and where you had to actually physically drive to the store to buy things. Pre-ordering saved you from having to make trips to the store to see if a hot item was in stock. What is the point now, in 2018?
Preordering allows you to download the game ahead of the release date so you can play it when it unlocks. A lot of people also still have sluggish internet speed, bandwidth caps, etc., that preloading allows them to budget their time and available resources. Some people also like the incentives, whether or not you do.
Watch a rise in those crunch times for game developers (80+ hrs/wk). Plus incomplete games. Buy the game, find out it was only 80% done. Then pay for the remaining 20% as DLC.



Sometimes pre-orders have certain perks or rewards. The only game I ever pre-order is the next expansion for World of Warcraft.
This is going after the resellers so they can't put up a game for preorder with a placeholder date like 12/31/2019. It's not the developer's or publisher's fault that when they announce a game with no perspective release date that stores participate in this practice. I'm sure there are people out there with a preorder for Final Fantasy VII Remake since it was revealed 3 years ago with no release date yet in sight.
 
There's not a huge reason to preorder these days. However, if it's a dev I trust, something that I've been waiting a while for, and there's a nice preorder sale price, that's good enough for me. Without those incentives though, there wouldn't be much of a reason. (unless as mentioned above, for internet reasons perhaps) One example: I'll preorder the new Doom game a day or two before release if it's got a slight discount. If not, I'll just buy it the day of or day after.
 
Ok those are two valid reasons you'd pre-order, but those have to be a tiny tiny fraction of all pre-orders. Anyway, most of the "collector" stuff you get with pre-orders is just garbage and those versions are usually a higher price than the regular game.
 
So what, it'll be criminal to take longer than expected to crowdfund... anything... in Germany? That just means Germans won't be included in anything international that's ever crowdfunded, and it'll have a chilling effect on Germany's own crowdfunded projects.
 
It's good to see that they are taking care of the important thing like protecting the consumer, since everyting else is simply wonderful. :whistle:

because if we cant fix everyone thing we dont need to fix anything ?
I'm sorry i just don't follow that mentallity


Anything that can kill the recent preorder abuse by companies is a win in my book
 
because if we cant fix everyone thing we dont need to fix anything ?
I'm sorry i just don't follow that mentallity


Anything that can kill the recent preorder abuse by companies is a win in my book

So you put out a release date and move it when you get close and still don't have a product. It is a pointless law. How about teaching people to be responsible for their actions and think before making a purchase or a decision in general? It is easy to stop the preorder nonsense. STOP GIVING COMPANIES MONEY IF YOU DON"T GET A PRODUCT OR SERVICE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE.
 
Of course, now all you will have to do is lie about it to get listed again most likely.

Well, at least the release date gives you more recourse when trying to get a refund. Coming Soon can be any date, an actual release date posted when you pre-order could be used (depending the laws in place) as grounds for a refund (if the company is still in business) if they don't make it.
 
I find nothing wrong with pre-ordering and fluid release dates. If a fellow is moronic enough to hand a homeless guy 40 bucks to score him some drugs from other side of town, then this seems to be the same thing.

Jewel case with media for retail sale or it is not happening. I just don't understand the fact that companies are doing it and people are falling for it. I think they deserve to get screwed if they are that thick.
 
Just because it has a release date, doesn't mean that it can't be pushed back. ...
Of course not, but the person that's placed a pre-order can then withdraw that order if they fail to deliver in a timely manner.
 
Crikety! Star Citizen delivered! :D

I was under impression this one wasn't a pre-order but crowd backed or something. For pre-orders you can always refund it, however typically pre-ordering you would get some kind of game thing. I agree there should be some liability but most of these backed projects is more of a gamble but people see it wrong and feel it's a purchase which it is not. Regarding pre-orders as long as they are refundable I don't see it as such a bad thing, it gives a change for some developers to get funds for their product. I generally don't do pre-orders as I like seeing product reviews first but some devs like CDPR I always support outright and pre-order as soon as it goes live. I do the same with recent Tomb Raider games too as I feel they deserve it.
 
Good! It is a shame that it took the recent Star Citizen bs to open some folks eyes to the sheer dishonesty of the "Coming Real Soon Now™ Preorder today!" business model. Perhaps we will get some accountability now. I hope more than Germany gets in on this.

Ehhh I mean we all KNOW Star Citizen was in effect a preorder.. but.. I don't think it was 'billed' as a preorder. Meaning you were backing the game and they would get it out when it got out but it was a kickstarter. I dunno.
 
I guess it comes down to intent for me.
If the intent was to have pre-orders so that those who pre-ordered could get their games shipped first, then that seems great to me to have it attached to a ship date, especially if the pre-order period is like a month away or something.
If the intent was to have pre-orders to get cash to do... whatever they need to do to complete the game, and the ship date is like years away... ehhhhhhh
 
Funny how this started because of the Galaxy S6 phone and yet everyone is blaming video games (Star Citizen in particular) and referring game developers as being the problem. The G6 was not a game but a physical piece of hardware.
 
Ehhh I mean we all KNOW Star Citizen was in effect a preorder.. but.. I don't think it was 'billed' as a preorder. Meaning you were backing the game and they would get it out when it got out but it was a kickstarter. I dunno.

Backing is not preordering.
 
Backing is not preordering.

So to get around this rule instead of taking "preorders" you let people "back" the game for early access and other perks. Charge more than game price and don't post a deadline. THEN even if you don't make the game you keep their money. Sounds like a win win for the software producers or scammers.
 
Back
Top