Germany Bans Windows 10 and Office 365 In Schools

lcpiper

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Yeah, I've noticed in the military base areas they also tend to teach American-style English rather than UK-style. When they hear English, they want to try theirs out. In Bamberg, I've encountered several locals that sound like they grew up in the US, but have never even left Germany. They even use and understand the same types of slang. I'm sure American TV and music probably affect that, too. Even though that base is closed now, there are a fair number of American ex-pats living in the area.
Munich has a massive American ex-pat population. I don't think I've ever gone more than a half hour without hearing someone speaking English anywhere near there. I know only a little German, so when my wife and I are wondering (aloud) what a sign or ads says, a friendly answer and explanation has been given without a request many many times.
I've had similar experiences in Dusseldorf, which oddly has a huge Japanese population. I think English is used as the common language there.
One thing a lot of people don't realize about Germany is that as a united country it isn't that old. I'm not even talking about East/West either. One reason states like Bavaria seem so different from Berlin, Bremen, and Saxony is because they were different kingdoms until the 1800's. There is quite a bit of social strife between states that's pretty similar to the type we have in the US. In particular north vs. south and the former East German states.
I have heard others talk of many things that your comments are related too. And the issue I was speaking of before is also reflected in Germany and in other countries as well. For instance, the Korean population outside of the bases that barracked the 2nd Infantry Division were not so friendly toward the US troops because those troops didn't behave themselves as well. Those guys really didn't care so much about being "good ambassadors" for the US. They wanted to get drunk and get laid and that was about the sum of it. In Seoul we had a different problem because of all the Korean Universities and the protesting that their students seemed to never tire of. So soldiers were treated OK in the shopping areas, it's business, and rarely had real problems as long as they didn't get caught up in a riot. But my Wife's family lived in the heart of Seoul far away from any base and I was never treated poorly by the community there. They weren't crazy about me, but they never were hostile towards me or my wife when together. Of course, as others have said, big cities all over the world are what they are and not usually known for being openly friendly on the streets.
 

dgz

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lcpiper

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Yeah, you got nothing. They don't need to look at the actual data to determine which settings are used the most. Even their own web activity tracking engine doesn't work like that. Everything happens programmatically. They don't need to parse the text

Besides, it's not like Google ever cared what people want. Not since 2004 anyway.
The article doesn't claim that they are parsing the textual content of the documents.

I also didn't say it was for the purpose of determining what people want, I said it could be about many things and for example, I proposed features or options that people use.

Some have read this article and in their minds they have inserted the idea that this is about emails and texts or other forms of private communications vs documents, document formatting data, etc.

Please don't loose sight that my comments were specific to someone who wanted to know what the difference between "read" and "analyze" could be. As such, I am not claiming what Google is or isn't actually doing. I am only answering the person's question regarding how to interpret the difference in these two terms from an industry perspective.
 

dgz

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The article doesn't claim that they are parsing the textual content of the documents.

I also didn't say it was for the purpose of determining what people want, I said it could be about many things and for example, I proposed features or options that people use.

Some have read this article and in their minds they have inserted the idea that this is about emails and texts or other forms of private communications vs documents, document formatting data, etc.

Please don't loose sight that my comments were specific to someone who wanted to know what the difference between "read" and "analyze" could be. As such, I am not claiming what Google is or isn't actually doing. I am only answering the person's question regarding how to interpret the difference in these two terms from an industry perspective.
Oh, I am aware of the context. You're very meticulous but I can see past that :)
We both know what this is about and it's not how often kids toggle their text formatting buttons. Sure, they could feed such data to an AI and possibly gain something useful but that's hardly the main purpose here.

Are your employer's document management handled by Google/MS services? Yes / no. For what reasons?
 

Mazzspeed

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And dying, and starting, and dying, and starting, and dying........ :D
Microsoft offer financial incentives, German Government realizes Windows hasn't got any better and they made a mistake. Microsoft offer financial incentives, German Government realizes Windows hasn't got any better and they made a mistake. Microsoft offer financial incentives, German Government realizes Windows hasn't got any better and they made a mistake.

It's more sad than funny seeing these "confidential" stamps on documents hosted on MS/Google servers. But hey, it saves some money and those companies don't have nothing to gain by spying on smaller enterprises like ours. Not a problem.
It's not like they're using simple Gmail. They're using Gsuite which, according to Google, is immune from data harvesting.

Personally, I think this is a great thing. The last thing we should be doing is biasing our children, our future society, on any capitalist product knowing only too well that by the time they've left school the conditioning and muscle memory will be entrenched and they'll believe Adobe and Microsoft Office are the only solutions available - When the reality is one is overpriced and under supported and the other isn't really compatible with ISO standards or even older variants of MS Office in any way whatsoever.

Like political views, our schools should not be conditioning students to use proprietary software products.
 

Mazzspeed

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Yeah...ok.
There's nothing wrong with teaching students on RPi's running Linux. The devices are cheap, offer an abundance of connectivity and interfacing options, the RPi 4 is relatively powerful considering what it is and the OS is more than adequate. I learnt computing on BBC model B's at high school and I can handle modern computers just fine - The thing is, I did it of my own free will without any form of conditioning at school.
 

Brian912

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Given how big Microsoft is I'm surprised they don't co-locate data centers in every G20 country and have those data centers be locally employed and bound to local law. It would be a move that would buy a lot of goodwill.
That is probably what the German Gov. is after if Microsoft wants this reversed.
 

kirbyrj

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There's nothing wrong with teaching students on RPi's running Linux. The devices are cheap, offer an abundance of connectivity and interfacing options, the RPi 4 is relatively powerful considering what it is and the OS is more than adequate. I learnt computing on BBC model B's at high school and I can handle modern computers just fine - The thing is, I did it of my own free will without any form of conditioning at school.
There's more to education than students just running RPi's...you have a whole bureaucracy to run and that takes more than a bunch of RPi's for students.
 

d3athf1sh

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Yeah...ok.
you know even microsoft is talking about adopting the linux kernel for their OS. besides there is a fully capable FREE office suite and plenty of browser options. what more do you need for educational purposes? and like I said it's FREE!!! that would save the school system prob millions on software.
 

kirbyrj

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you know even microsoft is talking about adopting the linux kernel for their OS. besides there is a fully capable FREE office suite and plenty of browser options. what more do you need for educational purposes? and like I said it's FREE!!! that would save the school system prob millions on software.
What more do you need?

E-mail, calendars, 3rd party software support (grades, etc.). Sure linux can do all that at some level, but it doesn't have a support network behind it like MS does at this point. Most people who use computers have no idea what they are doing... Especially since they've used Outlook for most of their professional lives.
 

Mazzspeed

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What more do you need?

E-mail, calendars, 3rd party software support (grades, etc.). Sure linux can do all that at some level, but it doesn't have a support network behind it like MS does at this point. Most people who use computers have no idea what they are doing... Especially since they've used Outlook for most of their professional lives.
I'd go as far as to state that the support behind Linux smashes Microsoft. There are more large companies, small development teams and enthusiasts behind Linux than Microsoft behind Windows. Your comment regarding Outlook proves my point perfectly.

Personally, I see Outlook as the most convoluted and bloated mail client ever. The interface sucks and there's crap all over the screen that the average user will 'never' use. But people use it because they've been conditioned from the age of five to believe that MS = Computing. That's no mistake on behalf of Microsoft.

Microsoft's own cloud based division, that brings in the bulk of Microsoft's revenue, mostly runs under Linux. You act like Linux is still stuck somewhere in the 90s, I can assure you this is most definitely not the case. I use Linux as my main OS and check email, sync my calendar and install 3rd party software just fine. We should most definitely not be conditioning our children to be Adobe and MS 'drones'.

Considering the infection issues present under Windows, Linux is actually the perfect OS for the average user. With the advent of smart phones, smart TV's, smart fridges and the touch screen at the pub telling you how many points you've accumulated towards a free meal we're no longer bound to the one GUI interface. As long as people recognize icons, all is good and with more and more MS server based software moving to the cloud Linux is the perfect front end terminal considering such usage cases.
 
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kirbyrj

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I'd go as far as to state that the support behind Linux smashes Microsoft. There are more large companies, small development teams and enthusiasts behind Linux than Microsoft behind Windows. Your comment regarding Outlook proves my point perfectly.

Personally, I see Outlook as the most convoluted and bloated mail client ever. The interface sucks and there's crap all over the screen that the average user will 'never' use. But people use it because they've been conditioned from the age of five to believe that MS = Computing. That's no mistake on behalf of Microsoft.

Microsoft's own cloud based division, that brings in the bulk of Microsoft's revenue, mostly runs under Linux. You act like Linux is still stuck somewhere in the 90s, I can assure you this is most definitely not the case. I use Linux as my main OS and check email, sync my calendar and install 3rd party software just fine. We should most definitely not be conditioning our children to be Adobe and MS 'drones'.

Considering the infection issues present under Windows, Linux is actually the perfect OS for the average user. With the advent of smart phones, smart TV's, smart fridges and the tough screen at the pub telling you how many points you've accumulated towards a free meal we're no longer bound to the one GUI interface. As long as people recognize icons, all is good and with more and more MS server based software moving to the cloud Linux is the perfect front end terminal considering such usage cases.
I'm not anti-linux. I just don't think it's going to happen. People use Outlook, however bad it is, because they are used to Outlook. It's that simple. An IT administrator isn't going to want to run Linux as he likely already has support contracts with vendors for the hardware and Windows based software. I don't see them just dumping that stability.
 

Mazzspeed

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I'm not anti-linux. I just don't think it's going to happen. People use Outlook, however bad it is, because they are used to Outlook. It's that simple. An IT administrator isn't going to want to run Linux as he likely already has support contracts with vendors for the hardware and Windows based software. I don't see them just dumping that stability.
EXACTLY! To expand on your 100% accurate assessment of Outlook, 'Many use Outlook because it's all they've known, since birth' - People don't use Outlook because it's necessarily the best tool for the job. This conditioning of our young is no mistake on behalf of Microsoft.

Windows Server is by no means more stable than a Linux based server, I have no idea just where you got that idea from.

Your views concerning Linux tend to suggest that you may actually be part of this generation, as they're totally unfounded. No offense intended, just an observation. Millions of people, use the Linux desktop daily with no issue.
 
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TeeJayHoward

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RE: Outlook

I speak as someone who first used Outlook after over a decade of using the competition. Any competition. I was a verified MS hater, and to hell with the THOUGHT of using Outlook. Hell, I ditched Hotmail when Microsoft bought them. I had an @FuckMicrosoft.com email address. I'd suffer through anything else rather than use a MS product. I was a long-haired, fuzzy-toothed, neck-bearded penguin pusher. Then I got out of college and entered the commercial world. I could no longer choose the software I used, I was stuck with what IT gave me... Even though I was IT. Basically work said "use this or get lost" and I liked getting paid. So I gave it a try.

And it's nice. It's SO freaking nice in a corporate environment. No other application compares in terms of sheer integration. Active Directory, Skype/Lync, Sharepoint, you name it. Outlook is a one-stop interface for basically every aspect of my job that isn't done through a terminal. Everything the open source community tries to do, MS does better. Since then I've had the chance to play around with the back end, and lord Jesus is that a clusterfuck, but the user experience on the front end is wonderful. It's intuitive. It makes effective use of screen estate. It requires very few clicks to complete a task. And it doesn't crash, even when I've got several GB of .psts loaded up for an archive search. It's genuinely good software. (At least on Windows. Fuck their Mac client.)
 

Mazzspeed

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RE: Outlook

I speak as someone who first used Outlook after over a decade of using the competition. Any competition. I was a verified MS hater, and to hell with the THOUGHT of using Outlook. Hell, I ditched Hotmail when Microsoft bought them. I had an @FuckMicrosoft.com email address. I'd suffer through anything else rather than use a MS product. I was a long-haired, fuzzy-toothed, neck-bearded penguin pusher. Then I got out of college and entered the commercial world. I could no longer choose the software I used, I was stuck with what IT gave me... Even though I was IT. Basically work said "use this or get lost" and I liked getting paid. So I gave it a try.

And it's nice. It's SO freaking nice in a corporate environment. No other application compares in terms of sheer integration. Active Directory, Skype/Lync, Sharepoint, you name it. Outlook is a one-stop interface for basically every aspect of my job that isn't done through a terminal. Everything the open source community tries to do, MS does better. Since then I've had the chance to play around with the back end, and lord Jesus is that a clusterfuck, but the user experience on the front end is wonderful. It's intuitive. It makes effective use of screen estate. It requires very few clicks to complete a task. And it doesn't crash, even when I've got several GB of .psts loaded up for an archive search. It's genuinely good software. (At least on Windows. Fuck their Mac client.)
Problem is: You're using it in a strictly Microsoft exchange environment, use it with any other solution and it's absolutely hopeless - It's only 'just' got Gsuite authentication.

Furthermore, to the average person that just wants email and perhaps a calendar, the interface is a cluttered mess. AddOn's are a outright nightmare.
 
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smarenwolf

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Why would German's be annoyed with Brits these days? Are Brits getting into Germany's business in some way?

I ask because I mostly only get pissed at the EU when the EU gets uppity and criticizes the US on US Domestic Issues.
Politicians and Tabloids comparing the EU with the Soviet Union, Germans with Nazis, dalaying Brexit for months without any progress, etc.
 

Domingo

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From a usability standpoint I think Outlook is fantastic. My company switched to Gsuite last year and while incredibly flexible, actually using it is a massive step back. Most of the bloat that has been introduced in recent years we would actually use, too. It sucked when it comes to designing HTML emails for, though. Like all things MS and HTML, they love making everything just a little non-standard.
 

lcpiper

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Politicians and Tabloids comparing the EU with the Soviet Union, Germans with Nazis, dalaying Brexit for months without any progress, etc.

Oh, so not Intelligent Informed average Germans, just the ones from the lower mental rung?
 

smarenwolf

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Oh, so not Intelligent Informed average Germans, just the ones from the lower mental rung?
Elaborate.
- Did Jeremy Hunt not compare the EU with the Soviet Union (Oct 18)?
- Did Syed Kamall not compare left-wing EU-parliament factions with Nazis (also Oct 18, also, this I mixed up with the following)?
(- Did the „New Statesman“ not compare Merkel with Hitler (2012, kinda irrelevant))
- Did the UK-government not halfheartedly negotiate with the EU for roundabout 2 years (including UK-negotiators appearing too late at meetings or not at all) before actually starting to really negotiate?
- Did said negotiators from the UK-government not negotiate a contract that they couldn't ratify at home?
- Did the UK-government then not flail around aimlessly at home, trying to get parliament to agree on the deal, fail at that and then ask two(?) times for a delay?
- And by now, which progress has been achieved by the UK-government regarding Brexit? There is still no plan on "how" and "what" to do... After ~40 months!

So... besides me mixing up two of those, and obviously not naming other examples.... where exactly is this "uninformed"?
 

lcpiper

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Elaborate.
- Did Jeremy Hunt not compare the EU with the Soviet Union (Oct 18)?
- Did Syed Kamall not compare left-wing EU-parliament factions with Nazis (also Oct 18, also, this I mixed up with the following)?
(- Did the „New Statesman“ not compare Merkel with Hitler (2012, kinda irrelevant))
- Did the UK-government not halfheartedly negotiate with the EU for roundabout 2 years (including UK-negotiators appearing too late at meetings or not at all) before actually starting to really negotiate?
- Did said negotiators from the UK-government not negotiate a contract that they couldn't ratify at home?
- Did the UK-government then not flail around aimlessly at home, trying to get parliament to agree on the deal, fail at that and then ask two(?) times for a delay?
- And by now, which progress has been achieved by the UK-government regarding Brexit? There is still no plan on "how" and "what" to do... After ~40 months!

So... besides me mixing up two of those, and obviously not naming other examples.... where exactly is this "uninformed"?

#1 - How the fuck would I know?
#2 - Why the fuck would I care to know?

I have enough to deal with in my own country that I don't need to go fucking around with anyone else's. Still, to make sure I was clear in my comment .... that was directed at Germans, not at Brits or their pursuits. I mean you are bringing to the forefront Brit actions/in-action related to the EU while I am specifically speaking about the Germans and which ones really care what the Brits do regarding Brexit. Your comments, regardless of their accuracy or lack there-of, say nothing about how German middle-class, and business leaders view Brexit.

Do you think I am off the mark here?
 

dgz

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It sucked when it comes to designing HTML emails for.
An email shouldn't contain HTML anyway. Plain text is most fine imo. Table within table, within table, within table... and for what?
 

lcpiper

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An email shouldn't contain HTML anyway. Plain text is most fine imo. Table within table, within table, within table... and for what?

Army email, you receive an email with an embedded link, a url, the Army's email system spots the url and embeds it into a Caution Notice to warn the recipient that it's a link which of course ruins the link part, you get the url, but the link itself is dead and all you can do is cut and paste the link text into your browser minus the caution text. It's certainly safer, but annoying all the same.
 

Domingo

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There's nothing wrong with having graphical emails. Straight text is fine for writing basic communications back and forth, but there is absolutely a place for something more visual than that. There are standards in place to make them look pretty nice and perfectly functional, too. Up until recently MS chose to only follow those about 90% of the way...hence the issues with Outlook. Never had any issues building or viewing HTML emails with any other modern clients or services.
 

c3k

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Speaking for myself, what I would like of ANY and EVERY piece of software is CLEAR and DEFINITIVE notifications of when it tries to gather my data and that it should EXPLICITLY seek permission for EACH transmission of data and SHOW ME what the data is and what entity is getting it.

So, you just want crash dump analysis? Fine, let me SEE the data. Sure, I could select not to see it, but I should be ABLE to (and in a form which is easily understood by non-programmers). I should be able to have any identifiables stripped out, should I so desire.

Where is the data going? I should be allowed to know...and I should have the authority to block it from being given/sold/disseminated in any form to any third-party, should I so desire.

In short, my data is mine, not yours. You want it? Well, don't bury "assumed permissions" in 34 pages of agreements. Don't have "required permissions" in order to use the software.

This should apply to everything: computers, tablets, phones, TVs, smart refrigerators, automobile bluetooth, etc.

I don't like much about the Euro Nanny-state, but I do like this.
 

smarenwolf

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#1 - How the fuck would I know?
#2 - Why the fuck would I care to know?

I have enough to deal with in my own country that I don't need to go fucking around with anyone else's. Still, to make sure I was clear in my comment .... that was directed at Germans, not at Brits or their pursuits. I mean you are bringing to the forefront Brit actions/in-action related to the EU while I am specifically speaking about the Germans and which ones really care what the Brits do regarding Brexit. Your comments, regardless of their accuracy or lack there-of, say nothing about how German middle-class, and business leaders view Brexit.

Do you think I am off the mark here?
Maybe. I think we're not yet on the same page (possible language barrier).

Germans (in general, of course there are exceptions) as individuals (in contrast to: "as business leaders", one person will have varying opinions on the same matter, depending on if he's viewing the topic from the perspective of a
3D-Printer hobbyist (E3D is a british company),
Father (daughter's friend is british, currently visiting them is kinda easier than it will be in 2 years),
business leader (be it positively because it weaks competition or negatively because they will loose their partners) or
"normal" person (fed up, some possible reasons mentioned in my last post).

I can only talk about the last category.
And there, their opinion has nothing to do with "not being intelligent informed."
It has all to do with the Brits being an elephant in a porcelain store where the Germans are stakeholders. Of course those stakeholders will be unhappy about that elephant.

You say I am bringing "Brits / EU" to the forefront, while you're more interested in "Brits / Germans", but that's the thing....
While Brits (statistically) never felt themselves to be "EUropeans", Germans (again, statistically) do.
Which results in "Brits being.... difficult with the EU" being - on average - percepted with "Brits being difficult with us"
 

lcpiper

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Maybe. I think we're not yet on the same page (possible language barrier).

Germans (in general, of course there are exceptions) as individuals (in contrast to: "as business leaders", one person will have varying opinions on the same matter, depending on if he's viewing the topic from the perspective of a
3D-Printer hobbyist (E3D is a british company),
Father (daughter's friend is british, currently visiting them is kinda easier than it will be in 2 years),
business leader (be it positively because it weaks competition or negatively because they will loose their partners) or
"normal" person (fed up, some possible reasons mentioned in my last post).

I can only talk about the last category.
And there, their opinion has nothing to do with "not being intelligent informed."
It has all to do with the Brits being an elephant in a porcelain store where the Germans are stakeholders. Of course those stakeholders will be unhappy about that elephant.

You say I am bringing "Brits / EU" to the forefront, while you're more interested in "Brits / Germans", but that's the thing....
While Brits (statistically) never felt themselves to be "EUropeans", Germans (again, statistically) do.
Which results in "Brits being.... difficult with the EU" being - on average - percepted with "Brits being difficult with us"

I do think I am understanding your view better. I have to admit, I see your position and view of this more clearly, although I still am not sure that you and I see the "normal" person's views accurately.

Let me explain, my wife is Korean and many youtube videos, with young Koreans in them, wind up being filled with Anti-Trump comments. My perception is that many young Koreans, due to their interests and the content they enjoy, hear comments from mostly younger Americans that are Anti-Trump, so they are under the impression that most Americans are Anti-Trump which is certainly not the case. Even young Americans, particularly those in universities, have the same view. It's understandable that Koreans would interpret the situation this way, and that some one then adopt the same attitudes.

So when we are talking about German attitudes on issues, I am very skeptical of claims that most Germans are "fed up", or critical of England.

Furthermore, as an American, I understand why the UK is considering leaving the EU. I also am supportive because I do not like how the EU has been working to transition itself from a body, intended to foster economic cooperation, into a political body of governance. I am not a "world government" supporter therefore I am very critical of the EU and how it likes to meddle in the affairs of other nations.

Therefore if England votes to leave the EU I am happy for them. And if "normal" Germans don't like it, screw them, it's not their choice to make.

That being said, I can understand that many German's might be getting tired of England's "indecision" on the matter. As we sometimes say in the US, "It's time to shit, or get off the pot". If this is your view as well, then I do understand it and I see it as completely reasonable.
 

lcpiper

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Laws like this ? You mean US shouldn't have a law which defines what permissions companies have to ask to process your data, to have right to ask for removal of your data, have legal requirement to report all data breaches within 72 hours ?

Actually ... no.

When I buy a company's product or sign up for their service, there is a user agreement involved, if not, you have every option to create one and that agreement binds both parties legally in the US. Other laws already exist as well.

But Germany did pass such laws, as such, the company, in this case Google, must confirm to that nation's laws or not do business there. I think it ironic that people and companies have the same choices, they can buy and use the product in question from Google, or they can buy one from someone else.
 

smarenwolf

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That being said, I can understand that many German's might be getting tired of England's "indecision" on the matter. As we sometimes say in the US, "It's time to shit, or get off the pot". If this is your view as well, then I do understand it and I see it as completely reasonable.
Well, tbh, it's nothing I can prove @ "normal person's views" or not. I know quite different people, from my middle class colleques (both with left and right tendencies) to my family (quite left) to people further right. No extremes, though, so I can't talk about them, obviously.
Yeah, CEOs and stuff are lacking in my "group" :)

But yeah, most* Germans just want to get over with it. They also don't really have a dislike for brits, but in our perception (again, we mostly see us as EUropeans), Brits never wanted to be a part of us, abused their power to get special deals no other EUropean country had, decided to become kinda xenophobic after _inviting and recruiting_ foreigners massively... I could go on), they've behaved like butthurt asshats without any reason.

Basically:
"If they want to leave, fine, but why be so douchy about it?"
2.5 years later
"You do realize you can't leave a club and stil keep using it's facilities, right?"
1 year later
"Do you want to go now or not?"


Brexiting has become a verb. "To announce leaving a party, but never actually do it."
 

Ready4Dis

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EXACTLY! To expand on your 100% accurate assessment of Outlook, 'Many use Outlook because it's all they've known, since birth' - People don't use Outlook because it's necessarily the best tool for the job. This conditioning of our young is no mistake on behalf of Microsoft.

Windows Server is by no means more stable than a Linux based server, I have no idea just where you got that idea from.

Your views concerning Linux tend to suggest that you may actually be part of this generation, as they're totally unfounded. No offense intended, just an observation. Millions of people, use the Linux desktop daily with no issue.
Linux is still to difficult for the average user in general. It still lacks support for hardware and games (which lets be honest, most kids play). I tried using ubuntu as my main OS recently (again, I try a version or 2 of linux every year or two just too see how it's progressing for the last 20 years) installed steam.. I saw all the hype about gaming on linux finally getting better, but the few games I do play weren't supported still. The eco system for the average user is in place under windows and still lacking under linux. Sure there is a lot more focus from large enterprise businesses, but this doesn't translate to usable features for the average person. You can dual boot, but who wants to do that? Honestly, I develop as a profession and I use linux often enough (my home server runs linux), but for every day use for my wife and kids... not so much.
 

lcpiper

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EXACTLY! To expand on your 100% accurate assessment of Outlook, 'Many use Outlook because it's all they've known, since birth' - People don't use Outlook because it's necessarily the best tool for the job. This conditioning of our young is no mistake on behalf of Microsoft.

Windows Server is by no means more stable than a Linux based server, I have no idea just where you got that idea from.

Your views concerning Linux tend to suggest that you may actually be part of this generation, as they're totally unfounded. No offense intended, just an observation. Millions of people, use the Linux desktop daily with no issue.
Wait, "conditioning of our young"? I'm sorry, well maybe not really sorry. But this is just a stupid comment.

Do you really imagine that in 1982, Microsoft decided to release a software application with the intent to condition our young?

Our young are not conditioned to use Outlook, and if they are conditioned to use anything it's apps on cell phones for whatever purpose.

Oneida has been working since 1912 to condition American Youth to use the Fork and Spoon, although 3/4 of the world's population uses chop stick .................. Chopsticks are much simpler and cheaper to manufacture where spoons and forks help run up profits and allow Oneida greater purchasing power for raw production materials.

Yes, I am being sarcastic and I am doing so to point out that the idea that a company promotes successful products is to condition people.

If people have been "conditioned" to only use MS Outlook, it's because Outlook has been such a success and is therefore the most successful product of it's type, not because someone introduces Outlook to infants at birth.

Are you going to accuse the Crescent company of the same thing?

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRzjAoYFMx4xRjWYzXIH4vhlaUla0GQ5MmNDwaaZ-c7BGukUsrGTw.jpg


Many other companies make adjustable wrenches but almost all of America and Canada called this a Crescent Wrench because Crescent Company held the patent for the most successful and common design.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
2,550
Wait, "conditioning of our young"? I'm sorry, well maybe not really sorry. But this is just a stupid comment.

Do you really imagine that in 1982, Microsoft decided to release a software application with the intent to condition our young?

Our young are not conditioned to use Outlook, and if they are conditioned to use anything it's apps on cell phones for whatever purpose.

Oneida has been working since 1912 to condition American Youth to use the Fork and Spoon, although 3/4 of the world's population uses chop stick .................. Chopsticks are much simpler and cheaper to manufacture where spoons and forks help run up profits and allow Oneida greater purchasing power for raw production materials.

Yes, I am being sarcastic and I am doing so to point out that the idea that a company promotes successful products is to condition people.

If people have been "conditioned" to only use MS Outlook, it's because Outlook has been such a success and is therefore the most successful product of it's type, not because someone introduces Outlook to infants at birth.

Are you going to accuse the Crescent company of the same thing?

View attachment 176660

Many other companies make adjustable wrenches but almost all of America and Canada called this a Crescent Wrench because Crescent Company held the patent for the most successful and common design.
You're entitled to your opinion, ignorance is bliss I suppose.
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,596
You're entitled to your opinion, ignorance is bliss I suppose.
Ignorance? Hmmmm, OK, my first reaction is to knock the dust off the chip that is always on my shoulder, but I'll refrain for now.

Let me ask you a question instead.

If Microsoft intended to ween the world on Outlook from birth, (meaning the home user and not the young professional), then why was the Outlook client bundled with Exchange Server for the first 5 years that it existed, and not in the Client OS packages?

Moreover, even today, the MS email client application is bundled in the productivity suite, (MS Office), and not in the OS.

And just as much to the point, the Outlook mail client was not available as a standalone application until 1998.

Maybe it was before your time.

Perhaps your opinion on the matter is understandable if you weren't around back then, ignorant so to speak.
 
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Lakados

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
1,980
So Germany also banned Google’s cloud suite and the Apple Classroom suite. Microsoft’s response was basically well you can turn off all the parts that you claim are violating your updated GDPR with changing 2 options during install. But that isn’t good enough so they are licensing the stand alone Office 2019 editions instead.... so much ado about nothing.
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,596
So Germany also banned Google’s cloud suite and the Apple Classroom suite. Microsoft’s response was basically well you can turn off all the parts that you claim are violating your updated GDPR with changing 2 options during install. But that isn’t good enough so they are licensing the stand alone Office 2019 editions instead.... so much ado about nothing.

You know, there is a very good chance that the entire problem was caused by either the people setting up the client systems or the people who were supposed to be receiving the data there in Germany, and that the MS products defaulted to sending the data to the US systems when they couldn't establish connections to the German ones.
 

Lakados

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
1,980
You know, there is a very good chance that the entire problem was caused by either the people setting up the client systems or the people who were supposed to be receiving the data there in Germany, and that the MS products defaulted to sending the data to the US systems when they couldn't establish connections to the German ones.
If I understand MS’s response to their complaint this is exactly it. But hey Office 2019 does basically everything O365 does but isn’t cloud based.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
17,550
Office 2019 and Office 365 are like 90% the same by default. A good chunk of the cloud functionality isn't even obvious unless you start hunting for it. The normal apps look and work the same way.
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,596
They look and seem to work the same way, but they require different levels of IT support on the back end meaning O365 relieves your IT staff of some responsibilities, skills, etc. And then there is the data hosting issue.
 
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